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post #6511 of 6754 Old 09-20-2009, 08:31 PM
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In my DTV Pal, I manually set/program it up like as shown: http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/269...sundaywron.gif

When I hit Done to save, it changed my start time to 4:15 PM. Um, why? Is this a bug? How do I fix it? I tried turning off and on, and deleting it and recreating it from scratch, but that didn't help.

Other weekly schedules for other days and hours seem OK. http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6756/snapshothq.png for my DTV Pal's system information for version numbers, IDs, etc.

Thank you in advance.
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post #6512 of 6754 Old 09-21-2009, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

In my DTV Pal, I manually set/program it up like as shown: http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/269...sundaywron.gif

When I hit Done to save, it changed my start time to 4:15 PM. Um, why? Is this a bug? How do I fix it? I tried turning off and on, and deleting it and recreating it from scratch, but that didn't help.

Other weekly schedules for other days and hours seem OK. http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6756/snapshothq.png for my DTV Pal's system information for version numbers, IDs, etc.

I tried again this morning and it worked. Hmm, either a bug that I can't schedule on the same day or something else? Has anyone ran into this glitch before?
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post #6513 of 6754 Old 09-21-2009, 12:08 PM
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Philaant, I have a vague recollection of that problem, but only when someone tried to set up a weekly timer on the same day as the timer was being schedule, and it was past the start time being selected. I ran into it with my F103. My solution was to set it up as a single event, and then go back and edit it to weekly. Or you can do what you did, and wait until the next day.
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post #6514 of 6754 Old 09-21-2009, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

Philaant, I have a vague recollection of that problem, but only when someone tried to set up a weekly timer on the same day as the timer was being schedule, and it was past the start time being selected. I ran into it with my F103. My solution was to set it up as a single event, and then go back and edit it to weekly. Or you can do what you did, and wait until the next day.

Ah, so this is a known bug and I have a newer version (105). Sheesh, buggy software and Dish seriously needs a better QA. Thanks.
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post #6515 of 6754 Old 09-29-2009, 12:36 AM
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For the second time in 3 weeks, I have lost all my TVGOS listings. Yesterday afternoon I had the entire upcoming 7 days fully populated. After that the TV was off for around 26 hours. Now I checked again, and I see for the entire week it shows "No Listings" in every single slot. I am wondering if this is a problem with either the Toshiba TV (the TVGOS device), with bad incoming data, or with the DTVPal that is doing the digital to analog conversion. Has this sort of thing been reported before (other than in my own post where I lost some, but not all, of my listings a couple of weeks ago)?
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post #6516 of 6754 Old 09-29-2009, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by seattlemark View Post

For the second time in 3 weeks, I have lost all my TVGOS listings. Yesterday afternoon I had the entire upcoming 7 days fully populated. After that the TV was off for around 26 hours. Now I checked again, and I see for the entire week it shows "No Listings" in every single slot. I am wondering if this is a problem with either the Toshiba TV (the TVGOS device), with bad incoming data, or with the DTVPal that is doing the digital to analog conversion. Has this sort of thing been reported before (other than in my own post where I lost some, but not all, of my listings a couple of weeks ago)?

I wonder if it had anything to do with the power outage on Queen Anne. You never know...

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post #6517 of 6754 Old 10-02-2009, 12:29 AM
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Wow, DTV Pal is sure buggy!

I ran into a weird timer power up glitch last night. Basically, my DTV Pal was supposed to turn on at 7:45 PM, then VCR records at 7:55 PM. From my VHS tape recording, I saw black with minor statics. I assume DTV Pal wasn't on. I took screen captures: http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/400...lfailedtos.jpg ... After almost an hour or 46.5 minutes (VCR time), then DTV Pal came on and did its long EPG download. At first, it recorded on KCBS2.1 (looked like Survivor) for a few minutes, then switched to KABC7.1. Obviously, it was almost at the end of 8:00 PM hour. Did anyone have this problem before? I think I have seen this behavior when manually turning on DTV Pal in the past too.

For now, I am going to try having DTV Pal turn on for an hour at 4:00 AM. Then, autopower off itself after four hours to see that helps. I had to delete my Sunday night recording event, but then I am usually home so...

DTV Pal's Timer (all manually entered and filled all empty slots) was like this:
Mondays: KNBC4.1 from 7:45 PM to 9:15 PM
KCBS2.1 from 9:25 PM to 10:05 PM.
Thursdays: KABC7.1 from 7:45 PM to 10:05 PM
Fridays: KTLA5.1 from 7:45 PM to 9:05 PM
Sundays: KTTV11.1 from 7:45 PM to 10:05 PM

I would not recommend a DTV Pal for anyone due to its bugginess. Good thing I got it for free.

Do other converter boxes, including DTV Pal DVR, with schedulers have these problems?
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post #6518 of 6754 Old 10-02-2009, 09:31 AM
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It's that time of year again. Sounds like a daylight savings time issue. Yes, any device that relies on PSIP time is going to have similar problems unless all of your stations are transmitting the correct time. While that's a nice dream, it's just not reality.

The only other converter box that has timers is the Zinwell ZAT-970A, but it has it's own issues, so I don't think you'd be any happier with it. I don't own a DTVPal DVR, so I don't have any personal experience with it, but there have been a lot of mixed reviews. Many people claim that they are very happy with it, but even they will often admit to having occassional issues, so I would certainly be wary.

The most reliable OTA recording solutions at this time seem to be the Magnavox H2160MW9A DVD recorder available at Walmart and Target, or the TiVo HD.
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post #6519 of 6754 Old 10-02-2009, 09:40 AM
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Phildaant, probably a daylight savings glitch, with perhaps some minutes off on a station as well. Check last year's thread to see how the Pal behaved with DST. Some boxes fixed themselves within a day, but others were trickier. I noticed it on my CM7000 and ignoring the hour, my usually accurate stations also had a 42 minute discrepancy. Fortunately, I'm recording with my Zat on manual clock. It performed as intended. ETA: I looked, and see I am using GMT offset for the timers.
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post #6520 of 6754 Old 10-02-2009, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

Phildaant, probably a daylight savings glitch, with perhaps some minutes off on a station as well. Check last year's thread to see how the Pal behaved with DST. Some boxes fixed themselves within a day, but others were trickier. I noticed it on my CM7000 and ignoring the hour, my usually accurate stations also had a 42 minute discrepancy. Fortunately, I'm recording with my Zat on manual clock. It performed as intended.

Is there a way to disable the clock and/or EPG? I did not see it. I know I disabled it in my old VCR.

I do all my recording timer setups manually.
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post #6521 of 6754 Old 10-02-2009, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Is there a way to disable the clock and/or EPG?

No. The Zinwell has a manual clock setting. However, it suffers from a bug that causes the channels to be changed on it's timers, so you basically have to check the timers every day to make sure they haven't changed. It's sad that ony two converters offer timers and both have bugs. What a pain!
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post #6522 of 6754 Old 10-02-2009, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick313 View Post

No. The Zinwell has a manual clock setting. However, it suffers from a bug that causes the channels to be changed on it's timers, so you basically have to check the timers every day to make sure they haven't changed. It's sad that ony two converters offer timers and both have bugs. What a pain!

I wonder which one is better. DTV Pal or Zinwell.

It sucks to be using the first few models this early. We can't even upgrade them like DTV Pal DVR.

Also, I had to fix my computer's recorder for HDTV feeds since it recorded wrong channels. I didn't know rescanning (even with same stations) would affect the schedulers I made which I did a few weeks ago. Ugh!!!

Can we go back to stable analog? [grin]
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post #6523 of 6754 Old 10-02-2009, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

I wonder which one is better. DTV Pal or Zinwell.

Personally, I prefer the Zinwell despite it's issues. In my opinion, the picture quality is better than the DTVPal, it has a manual clock option, and it's not affected by AFD like the DTVPal. However, it only has a now/next guide, it has timer stability issues as I mentioned before, and it occassionally loses audio/video sync.

Ironically, one of the reasons that I chose the Zinwell was because it has updateable firmware. Unfortunately, Zinwell is unwilling to issue any updates due to the expense involved in distributing them over the air. Grr!!

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Can we go back to stable analog?

For me, that would mean going back to cable. Too expensive!!
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post #6524 of 6754 Old 10-02-2009, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick313 View Post

Personally, I prefer the Zinwell despite it's issues. In my opinion, the picture quality is better than the DTVPal, it has a manual clock option, and it's not affected by AFD like the DTVPal. However, it only has a now/next guide, it has timer stability issues as I mentioned before, and it occassionally loses audio/video sync.

Ironically, one of the reasons that I chose the Zinwell was because it has updateable firmware. Unfortunately, Zinwell is unwilling to issue any updates due to the expense involved in distributing them over the air. Grr!!



For me, that would mean going back to cable. Too expensive!!

Bummer for Zinwell's support. As for analog cable, wow you can't get many channels OTA with analog feeds?
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post #6525 of 6754 Old 10-02-2009, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Is there a way to disable the clock and/or EPG? I did not see it. I know I disabled it in my old VCR.

I do all my recording timer setups manually.

I don't remember on the Pal, I haven't had it hooked up for awhile.

On the Zat, go to menu...setup...time zone and time

and you have three choices for GMT usage:
-by time zone (it shows the GMT offset, but you can't change it with that option)
-GMT usage off
-User defined

I currently have 'by time zone' selected, and it's correct, so I guess it must be looking at the right time after all. That screen sets the clock everywhere, I think -- for use with timer, clock display, and EPG. Although with the Zat in the extended EPG, I can usually access past listings as well as the future ones, so even if the clock were an hour ahead, I could still see what was really on.
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post #6526 of 6754 Old 10-02-2009, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Wow, DTV Pal is sure buggy!

I ran into a weird timer power up glitch last night. Basically, my DTV Pal was supposed to turn on at 7:45 PM, then VCR records at 7:55 PM. From my VHS tape recording, I saw black with minor statics. I assume DTV Pal wasn't on. I took screen captures: http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/400...lfailedtos.jpg ... After almost an hour or 46.5 minutes (VCR time), then DTV Pal came on and did its long EPG download. At first, it recorded on KCBS2.1 (looked like Survivor) for a few minutes, then switched to KABC7.1. Obviously, it was almost at the end of 8:00 PM hour. Did anyone have this problem before? I think I have seen this behavior when manually turning on DTV Pal in the past too.

For now, I am going to try having DTV Pal turn on for an hour at 4:00 AM. Then, autopower off itself after four hours to see that helps. I had to delete my Sunday night recording event, but then I am usually home so...

DTV Pal's Timer (all manually entered and filled all empty slots) was like this:
Mondays: KNBC4.1 from 7:45 PM to 9:15 PM
KCBS2.1 from 9:25 PM to 10:05 PM.
Thursdays: KABC7.1 from 7:45 PM to 10:05 PM
Fridays: KTLA5.1 from 7:45 PM to 9:05 PM
Sundays: KTTV11.1 from 7:45 PM to 10:05 PM

I would not recommend a DTV Pal for anyone due to its bugginess. Good thing I got it for free.

Do other converter boxes, including DTV Pal DVR, with schedulers have these problems?

The problem was not the DTVpal/TR40. The problem was the stations. Part of the PSIP information is the date when DST turns on or off. That value is supposed to be 0 until it is "less than" a month prior to the change. DST currently ends the 1st Sunday of November which is November 1 in 2009. If you read the segment of the ATSC standard that covers DST transition, it is obvious that there is a conflict if they set the value to 1 on October 1, which many stations did. It needs to be a full day less than one month from the transation date when they set the value of the transition date. Presumably many use they same buggy PSIP generation software. The tuner time should be OK today, since it is now October 2 and the tuner will be able to detemine that transition will be on November 1, 2009. Earlier yesterday, a 1 in the transition date would have been appropriate if the transition had taken place on October 1.

The clock should be OK today, and should remain correct untill next spring. Maybe it will even be OK then if enough stations raise hell with their software venders.
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post #6527 of 6754 Old 10-02-2009, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenavs View Post

The problem was not the DTVpal/TR40. The problem was the stations. Part of the PSIP information is the date when DST turns on or off. That value is supposed to be 0 until it is "less than" a month prior to the change. DST currently ends the 1st Sunday of November which is November 1 in 2009. If you read the segment of the ATSC standard that covers DST transition, it is obvious that there is a conflict if they set the value to 1 on October 1, which many stations did. It needs to be a full day less than one month from the transation date when they set the value of the transition date. Presumably many use they same buggy PSIP generation software. The tuner time should be OK today, since it is now October 2 and the tuner will be able to detemine that transition will be on November 1, 2009. Earlier yesterday, a 1 in the transition date would have been appropriate if the transition had taken place on October 1.

The clock should be OK today, and should remain correct untill next spring. Maybe it will even be OK then if enough stations raise hell with their software venders.

Interesting. I forgot tocheck the DTV Pal's current clock last night when I saw the problems. I do remember its date (Thursday, 10/1/2009) was correct.

I guess I will remove my daily early morning power on and readd my Sunday night timer event.

Thanks all! Definitely annoying!
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post #6528 of 6754 Old 10-03-2009, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Is there a way to disable the clock and/or EPG? I did not see it. I know I disabled it in my old VCR.

I do all my recording timer setups manually.

Both of my TR40cra's have been off 1 hour the past few days. I've still been using them to make recordings and have not had any issues. I use the program guide to schedule my timers. As hard as it is, I just ignore the clock. If the guide says the show is 2 hours out, that's when the timer will fire. Obviously, the incorrect time is the fault of the transmitting party, not the TR40. Garbage in, garbage out.

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post #6529 of 6754 Old 10-03-2009, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Whidbey View Post

Both of my TR40cra's have been off 1 hour the past few days. I've still been using them to make recordings and have not had any issues. I use the program guide to schedule my timers. As hard as it is, I just ignore the clock. If the guide says the show is 2 hours out, that's when the timer will fire. Obviously, the incorrect time is the fault of the transmitting party, not the TR40. Garbage in, garbage out.

I just checked my TR40, and the time was correct. KCNC, which is the digital TVGOS station, set the transition date to 1 on October 1, which would cause a temporay problem, but my TR40 fixed itself. I presume it corrrected itself some time on Friday October 2, when it woould have been clear that the transition date of 1 had to mean November 1.

The early setting of the transition date to 1, by a station the units were getting time information from, should only have caused a problem on October 1 and early on October 2. If your units are still wrong, there must be something else going on. The station could be sending the wrong time, the DTS flag it is sending could actually be set to OFF, or something may have happened to the time zone or DST settings of your units.
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post #6530 of 6754 Old 10-04-2009, 05:56 PM
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Last night, I turned on my DTV Pal and it did its boot up to download datas. Then, it told me I have new channels (KBEH). Does it rescan during boot up too?
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post #6531 of 6754 Old 10-04-2009, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Last night, I turned on my DTV Pal and it did its boot up to download datas. Then, it told me I have new channels (KBEH). Does it rescan during boot up too?

When you turn it off it turns itself on at different times in a 24 hour period. That is when it found new channel
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post #6532 of 6754 Old 10-04-2009, 07:36 PM
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When you turn it off it turns itself on at different times in a 24 hour period. That is when it found new channel

Ah. What else does it do during those autopower ons and offs? I wonder why it can't download the TV schedules instead of when I manually boot up so I don't have to wait or abort the download?
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post #6533 of 6754 Old 10-08-2009, 03:30 AM
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Has anyone seen the DTVPal Plus at their local K-Mart recently? I'd considered getting a third Pal, a Plus, and went to K-Mart today.

They didn't seem to have ANY converter boxes.
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post #6534 of 6754 Old 10-08-2009, 07:12 AM
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I was to a Sears Grand (a variation on a Kmart) a while back and picked up a "clearance" DTVPal Plus that had been "damaged" (box was crushed on one side, contents unharmed) for a reduced price. They hadn't/haven't carried DTV converters since a little after the final conversion date. (June)

I have found bigger stores still having DTV Converters (yet they make them rather hard to find) and a local Shopko (WI only Dept store chain?) that still carries RCA DTV boxes prominently on it's Electronic Dept's Check-out counter... I personally like the RCA's Remote layout (Grandma friendly)... just not it's Now/Next Guide (and it's inability to manually add channels... maybe if I used a Smart Antenna that wouldn't be an issue?)
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post #6535 of 6754 Old 10-08-2009, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Interesting. I forgot tocheck the DTV Pal's current clock last night when I saw the problems. I do remember its date (Thursday, 10/1/2009) was correct.

I guess I will remove my daily early morning power on and readd my Sunday night timer event.

Thanks all! Definitely annoying!

I noticed my DTV Pal did NOT turn on tonight at 7:45 PM. I manually turned it on with its remote control and got nothing. No downloading EPG or anything. Right now, I am waiting for it to reset itself so it can work again.

I guess I will need to add back the daily turn on in its scheduler.
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post #6536 of 6754 Old 10-09-2009, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

I noticed my DTV Pal did NOT turn on tonight at 7:45 PM. I manually turned it on with its remote control and got nothing. No downloading EPG or anything. Right now, I am waiting for it to reset itself so it can work again.

I guess I will need to add back the daily turn on in its scheduler.

Unplug it for 60 seconds and turn it back on for a reset
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post #6537 of 6754 Old 10-09-2009, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

Has anyone seen the DTVPal Plus at their local K-Mart recently? I'd considered getting a third Pal, a Plus, and went to K-Mart today.

They didn't seem to have ANY converter boxes.


Everyone is OUT. Do not know if it is discontinuedDish or back order. I am leaning to discontinued.

Dish is out also and so is all the online places. In fact ALL Brand converters are GONE. Just 1 or 2 odd boxes left that places are selling.

Seems you can get the Dish DVR at sears.com $185
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post #6538 of 6754 Old 10-09-2009, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexus2108 View Post

Unplug it for 60 seconds and turn it back on for a reset

I did, but that didn't work. I had to wait a few minutes for it to come back. In the past, I have seen it take a few hours.
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post #6539 of 6754 Old 10-09-2009, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by lexus2108 View Post

Seems you can get the Dish DVR at sears.com $185

That would be nice, but I think it's slightly more... Sears

Enjoying crystal clear TV for free.


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post #6540 of 6754 Old 10-10-2009, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by lexus2108 View Post

Everyone is OUT. Do not know if it is discontinuedDish or back order. I am leaning to discontinued.

Dish is out also and so is all the online places. In fact ALL Brand converters are GONE. Just 1 or 2 odd boxes left that places are selling.

Seems you can get the Dish DVR at sears.com $185

You might not be looking hard enough. (Or your market is in fact "out")

It might be cheating but I just visited a "Liquidators" store... that had several Memorex MVCB1000 (a "beast" of a Converter box by the picture on the box) and Craig Electronics model CVD506 (or 508) units. They wanted $35 each and only issues were the boxes are a bit beat up... (Not as bad as the DTVPal Plus box which looked like it had been run over)
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