Dish DTVPal / Echostar TR40 digital to analog converter - Page 221 - AVS Forum
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post #6601 of 6754 Old 01-07-2010, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

Turning it off by remote would put it in standby, you should not have to do it via the inactivity timer.

So you never get the "The program guide information is now being downloaded" message and progress bar? For my 10-11 stations, 25 channels, it downloaded for about 10 seconds, so it might go by really fast with your 5. It didn't download every time I turned it on, it had to be off for about 4 hours before it refreshed the guide on power up.

My F103 lost the CBS lock quite a bit in the early days, so if I manually went to standby, I tuned to CBS first. That way, if it lost the lock and defaulted to the current channel, it would still be on CBS and could more easily find the lock again.

I haven't used the Pal since before June 12, so I don't know how things are now. I like the 8 timers in my Zat enough to put up with the incompatibility with my CM7000.

No guide information notice, no CBS lock. I forgot to mention that my box is F101.

I love the digital transition. The voices in my head just say 0 and 1 now.
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post #6602 of 6754 Old 01-16-2010, 05:52 AM
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I found this thread by searching for hang/freeze TR-40 after finding nothing of use on their support page.

My TR-40 not only hangs (green power light stays on and does not respond to input from remote, no picture) but it won't consistently get out of that state even if you pull the power and wait 5 minutes. Currently I have power-cycled it about a dozen times (even though there should be no logical reason why power-cycling once is better or worse than power cycling a dozen times! It's just the only thing I can *do*.)

Usually this happens if it's left powered on for too long, but today it seems to have happened spontaneously when I turned it on, and I haven't gotten it to stop (the green light comes on immediately when powering it on, and then it doesn't respond to input). I'm leaving it unplugged from its power supply, but it drives me crazy that I have no idea if or when it will stop hanging immediately when plugged in and display a signal again. Any thoughts?
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post #6603 of 6754 Old 01-16-2010, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pekmez View Post

I found this thread by searching for hang/freeze TR-40 after finding nothing of use on their support page.

My TR-40 not only hangs (green power light stays on and does not respond to input from remote, no picture) but it won't consistently get out of that state even if you pull the power and wait 5 minutes. Currently I have power-cycled it about a dozen times (even though there should be no logical reason why power-cycling once is better or worse than power cycling a dozen times! It's just the only thing I can *do*.)

Usually this happens if it's left powered on for too long, but today it seems to have happened spontaneously when I turned it on, and I haven't gotten it to stop (the green light comes on immediately when powering it on, and then it doesn't respond to input). I'm leaving it unplugged from its power supply, but it drives me crazy that I have no idea if or when it will stop hanging immediately when plugged in and display a signal again. Any thoughts?

Odd. I never had that problem for leaving on too long like for over 4.5 hours. How long was yours?

To avoid the hangs, I set up a daily timer to turn on for an hour + four hours before automatically sleeping.

Yea, this device sucks and the company's support (even e-mails and LiveChat) is awful.
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post #6604 of 6754 Old 01-16-2010, 09:31 PM
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usually ours hangs because we left it *on* for 24 hours (this happens because we haven't taught the 4 year old to turn off the TR40 with the remote once she pushes the button on the tv and there is no picture.) And by hang, I mean that it hangs and *continues* hanging after multiple power cycles. Usually if I leave power disconnected for 5 to 15 minutes it will recover (meaning, I plug it in and the LED is not on, and now I can start up normally with remote again.)

This one time: the second I turned it on, after possibly many days of not being turned on, it hung. The kicker: LED still comes on after leaving it disconnected from power for the past 12 hours. I think it may be permanently dead this time.
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post #6605 of 6754 Old 01-16-2010, 09:40 PM
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Correction. The first time I connected it to power after the 12 hours without power, still hanging.

Just because I am stubborn, I tried one more quick powercycle, and this time it finally came back without the green LED and could be powered on with the remote. hallelujah.
but what the hell is going on in my cargo cult of multiple power cycles spanning hours and hours?
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post #6606 of 6754 Old 02-09-2010, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by TalkingRat
So you never get the "The program guide information is now being downloaded" message and progress bar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by partsman_ba View Post

No guide information notice, no CBS lock. I forgot to mention that my box is F101.

He won't get the automatic guide download at power on, or the CBS time lock if he doesn't have a local station transmitting a TVGOS signal.

Even though he is not using TVGOS, the unit looks for, and recognizes a TVGOS signal,
causing the guide download at power on and the CBS time lock for all stations.
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post #6607 of 6754 Old 02-09-2010, 10:36 PM
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I believe this is my first time. Basically, I came home and noticed my DTV Pal was on. I thought it was doing its usual timer for my VCR. I checked my recording noticed the whole recording was stuck on its download. The graph appeared to be 100% done, but frozen. I had to power off and on. Has anyone seen that glitch before?
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post #6608 of 6754 Old 02-13-2010, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

I believe this is my first time. Basically, I came home and noticed my DTV Pal was on. I thought it was doing its usual timer for my VCR. I checked my recording noticed the whole recording was stuck on its download. The graph appeared to be 100% done, but frozen. I had to power off and on. Has anyone seen that glitch before?

my TR40 (with F105 firmware) has never frozen during the many many guide downloads it has done in the last 14 months or so....

but it has occasionally frozen while simply watching random channels....no pattern to it or cause for it as far as i can tell....and if i just let it sit like that for 10 to 15 minutes it seems to often 'fix' itself and go back to normal.....a few times i had to unplug the ac power cord to clear it....

*** its high time to go back to OTA antennas and CANCEL our cable/satellite pay tv services! their greed is totally & insanely out of control! ***
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post #6609 of 6754 Old 02-13-2010, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pm3839 View Post

my TR40 (with F105 firmware) has never frozen during the many many guide downloads it has done in the last 14 months or so....

but it has occasionally frozen while simply watching random channels....no pattern to it or cause for it as far as i can tell....and if i just let it sit like that for 10 to 15 minutes it seems to often 'fix' itself and go back to normal.....a few times i had to unplug the ac power cord to clear it....

Interesting. I rarely channel surf so I can't say I have that problem.
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post #6610 of 6754 Old 02-14-2010, 02:03 PM
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I think the problems stem from lack of memory in the Pal. I have only 5 broadcast signals, sending out 12 discrete channels, with only PSIP data. Only one or two broadcasters have decided to send more than the minimum data (for fear of degrading their signal, they say.) I have never had a timer not fire, nor a lockup of any kind with my F101 Pal. I use it to tune for my VCR and as an electronic TV guide since I upgraded to an HDTV.

I love the digital transition. The voices in my head just say 0 and 1 now.
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post #6611 of 6754 Old 02-14-2010, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by partsman_ba View Post

I think the problems stem from lack of memory in the Pal...

And there is no way to optimize it I assume.
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post #6612 of 6754 Old 02-15-2010, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by partsman_ba View Post

I think the problems stem from lack of memory in the Pal. I have only 5 broadcast signals, sending out 12 discrete channels, with only PSIP data. Only one or two broadcasters have decided to send more than the minimum data (for fear of degrading their signal, they say.) I have never had a timer not fire, nor a lockup of any kind with my F101 Pal. I use it to tune for my VCR and as an electronic TV guide since I upgraded to an HDTV.

I have 34 channels, most sending out full program info, and have never had problems that could be traced to memory. That's one of the things that seems to work well with my TR-40's.

Enjoying crystal clear TV for free.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
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post #6613 of 6754 Old 02-15-2010, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whidbey View Post

I have 34 channels, most sending out full program info, and have never had problems that could be traced to memory. That's one of the things that seems to work well with my TR-40's.

Well for me, I think I have like over 80 channels (including .2, .3, .4, .5, .6, .7, .8, etc. that DTV Pal finds; my computer's HDTV tuners found up to 80 channels, but DTV Pal found way more). Is there a way to figure how many there are without manually counting?
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post #6614 of 6754 Old 02-15-2010, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

I believe this is my first time. Basically, I came home and noticed my DTV Pal was on. I thought it was doing its usual timer for my VCR. I checked my recording noticed the whole recording was stuck on its download. The graph appeared to be 100% done, but frozen. I had to power off and on. Has anyone seen that glitch before?

My VCR was trying to record 24 for over 40 minutes! I was able to press Select button to exit the hang.

I am going to unplug DTVPal for about 30 minutes and replug it to see if that help for future events. If that doesn't work, then I might need to redo the channels to see if that helps. My DTVPal is becoming unreliable now. Grr!
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post #6615 of 6754 Old 02-17-2010, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

My VCR was trying to record 24 for over 40 minutes! I was able to press Select button to exit the hang.

I am going to unplug DTVPal for about 30 minutes and replug it to see if that help for future events. If that doesn't work, then I might need to redo the channels to see if that helps. My DTVPal is becoming unreliable now. Grr!

I e-mailed Dish Network to know if there was a limit on how many channels it can hold. I got this answer (don't trust it 100%): "... The DTV Pal has no limit on channels so you should be able to add all necessary channels to the unit..."
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post #6616 of 6754 Old 02-18-2010, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Well for me, I think I have like over 80 channels (including .2, .3, .4, .5, .6, .7, .8, etc. that DTV Pal finds; my computer's HDTV tuners found up to 80 channels, but DTV Pal found way more). Is there a way to figure how many there are without manually counting?

Not that I know of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

I e-mailed Dish Network to know if there was a limit on how many channels it can hold. I got this answer (don't trust it 100%): "... The DTV Pal has no limit on channels so you should be able to add all necessary channels to the unit..."

What did you think they would say? Yes, theoretically the unit will work if you had every broadcast channel (with multiple subchannels,) but I'll bet the amount of data churning through its little memory would cause all kinds of hiccups.

I love the digital transition. The voices in my head just say 0 and 1 now.
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post #6617 of 6754 Old 02-22-2010, 10:14 PM
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Ugh, my frakkin's DTV Pal locked up during the channel download again. I am going to try clearing out its channel list and rescan from scratch. I assume this will mess up my timer too.

10:33 PM PST: I just resetted my DTV Pal back to factory defaults to start clean and redo everything. It added 80 new channels on a scan from scratch. It doesn't tell me the number in its channel list and how many added after another new channel scan (zero). Let's see how this goes.
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post #6618 of 6754 Old 03-08-2010, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Ugh, my frakkin's DTV Pal locked up during the channel download again. I am going to try clearing out its channel list and rescan from scratch. I assume this will mess up my timer too.

10:33 PM PST: I just resetted my DTV Pal back to factory defaults to start clean and redo everything. It added 80 new channels on a scan from scratch. It doesn't tell me the number in its channel list and how many added after another new channel scan (zero). Let's see how this goes.

So far so no crashes/hangs. I guess a default factory reset was needed.

3/18/2010 10:00 PM PDT: Still good!
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post #6619 of 6754 Old 03-19-2010, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pekmez View Post

I found this thread by searching for hang/freeze TR-40 after finding nothing of use on their support page.

My TR-40 not only hangs (green power light stays on and does not respond to input from remote, no picture) but it won't consistently get out of that state even if you pull the power and wait 5 minutes. Currently I have power-cycled it about a dozen times (even though there should be no logical reason why power-cycling once is better or worse than power cycling a dozen times! It's just the only thing I can *do*.)

Usually this happens if it's left powered on for too long, but today it seems to have happened spontaneously when I turned it on, and I haven't gotten it to stop (the green light comes on immediately when powering it on, and then it doesn't respond to input). I'm leaving it unplugged from its power supply, but it drives me crazy that I have no idea if or when it will stop hanging immediately when plugged in and display a signal again. Any thoughts?

firmware 106 is less buggy. BUT it still happens just less often. Yours is 103FR or 105fr?

PS try turing off the power save in 4 hours ect. Make it no power save. Look at manual.
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post #6620 of 6754 Old 03-29-2010, 02:53 PM
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I have a DTVPal plus but I do not have any other TVGOS devices. From what I understand, the DTVPal recognizes the new Digital TVGOS and will convert it to analog for legacy TVGOS VCR's, DVR's and TV's but there is no way to view a TVGOS guide directly from the DTVPal, right?

My question is: Is there any benefit to having these TVGOS aware boxes if you do not have a legacy TVGOS device to read the analog output?

I was hoping there was a way to extract the TVGOS data out of it and display it on a standard NTSC TV, or maybe a firmware hack that allows the CECB to display a TVGOS menu on the output.

Wishful thinking
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post #6621 of 6754 Old 03-29-2010, 03:20 PM
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No - wishful thinking.
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post #6622 of 6754 Old 03-29-2010, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsyd View Post

I have a DTVPal plus but I do not have any other TVGOS devices. From what I understand, the DTVPal recognizes the new Digital TVGOS and will convert it to analog for legacy TVGOS VCR's, DVR's and TV's but there is no way to view a TVGOS guide directly from the DTVPal, right?

My question is: Is there any benefit to having these TVGOS aware boxes if you do not have a legacy TVGOS device to read the analog output?

I was hoping there was a way to extract the TVGOS data out of it and display it on a standard NTSC TV, or maybe a firmware hack that allows the CECB to display a TVGOS menu on the output.

Wishful thinking

NO Unless you can find a DISH pal DVR. YTou can view the TVGOS from the Pal box. It does both PSIP and TVGOS if it is in your area. Displays the TV guide logo.

Also you can Download free updates
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post #6623 of 6754 Old 03-29-2010, 05:54 PM
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Thanks for confirming this. It's a shame that TVGOS is a free service and nobody wants to use it. I'm guessing it will eventually die. Seems like a natural match for a CECB.
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post #6624 of 6754 Old 03-29-2010, 06:04 PM
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If you have another analog device that did the TVGOS thing - the PAL / TR40 can be put into a mode where it can supply information to that device.

Otherwise - it just uses PSIP data for it's internal guide.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

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post #6625 of 6754 Old 03-29-2010, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsyd View Post

Is there any benefit to having these TVGOS aware boxes if you do not have a legacy TVGOS device to read the analog output?

There is no advantage as far as guide data is concerned. However, the unit does use the TVGOS time stamp to set its internal clock. This is especially beneficial if you intend to make use of the DTVPal event timers since the TVGOS time stamp is generally more reliable than PSIP time stamps.
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post #6626 of 6754 Old 03-30-2010, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by oldsyd View Post

It's a shame that TVGOS is a free service and nobody wants to use it.

Where in the world did you get that impression?
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post #6627 of 6754 Old 03-30-2010, 10:10 AM
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Indeed, Artec developed a pricier one just for that function:

http://www.meritline.com/artec-t3apr...--p-34159.aspx

It appears TVG is still supporting and making money off of it. Are there still VCRs, DVRs, and TVs being made that support this function?

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post #6628 of 6754 Old 03-30-2010, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

Are there still VCRs, DVRs, and TVs being made that support this function?

For recording devices, only the ATSC DTVPal DVR.

But they are still building Sony and Mitsubishi LCD TV's with the feature.

I was just referring to his "nobody wants to use it" part. Tons of people that liked and used it but have lost it have been complaining left and right about it. All one has to do to realize that is just take a quick look here over in the HDTV and DVD Recorders forums.

The newer TVGOS devices use the digital data, although the analog is still sent over some cable systems - and I'm really not sure if those TV's with it now will fall back on that if the digital's not available. My guess would be yeah, though, since the older Sony DVR does that.
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post #6629 of 6754 Old 04-01-2010, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

Indeed, Artec developed a pricier one just for that function:

http://www.meritline.com/artec-t3apr...--p-34159.aspx

It appears TVG is still supporting and making money off of it. Are there still VCRs, DVRs, and TVs being made that support this function?

"TV Guide Subscription required for TV Guide Program"

What is this? Is it like the PAL DVR that has the TV GUIDE for program guide?

Also how much is the subscription?
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post #6630 of 6754 Old 04-01-2010, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

"TV Guide Subscription required for TV Guide Program"

What is this? Is it like the PAL DVR that has the TV GUIDE for program guide?

Also how much is the subscription?

I found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guide_Plus

I wish I had it but I don't so I'm no expert; but from what I can surmise you need a digital tuner with this capability and a TV, DVR, or VCR with the capability to display the info from the tuner. I think the TV, DVR, or VCR can be analog otherwise it wouldn't make much sense for a CECB mfger to produce a box with this capability.

I think someone confirmed yes for the PAL DVR further back up this thread.

The subscription is paid for by the device mfgers (like they do with Dolby sound, etc.).

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