Channel Master CM-7000 Digital to Analog Converter - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 1483 Old 10-03-2008, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

......It's a good possibility that your CM-7000 is defective (based upon your numerous complaints)......
therefore, would a trade be appropriate?

That's a definite possibility. One of my 4 had the same problem with dropouts and wild signal swings. I exchanged that for another one and the replacement was fine.
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post #812 of 1483 Old 10-03-2008, 06:12 PM
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Good news for me...and it confirms that the left shift issue was a problem with my TV:

I finally decided to hook my CM-7000 up to the S-video port of my Insignia DTV and I ran the video diagnostic test. The reason I havent done it before is, as a Digital television, why would it need a CECB, right? Anyway, it turns out that the image was almost dead centered on it.

Therefore, I decided to assume that the issue was my TV being off center. Of course with it being 20+ years old, I wasn’t sure what could do to try and shift the image to the right a bit, as it doesn’t have a service menu. Upon turning my TV around to see the back, I saw several holes in the back of the cover with labels on them like Screen, Focus, Hor Ctr, Vert Hgt, R, G, and B. Therefore, I hooked back up my CM-7000 and threw up the test pattern, found a tiny screwdriver, and began to adjust the Hor Ctr screw. I turned it only a small amount before it was turned as far as it could go, but the test pattern image looked much more centered...within 1/4 inch...which is tons better than it was before (1"-2"!). I checked my analog stations and I can hardly tell the image position was moved (they already looked centered, which I why I thought the problem was with the CM-7000), while the digital image coming from the CM-7000 looked much better.

It could still use a parallel adjustment (I see a minute bit of a / / type geometry looking in the top right and bottom left corners), but unlike the left shift, it's something so barely noticible that I could probably live with it. Since it's not an adjustable option from the outside, if it could even be done I'd probably have to take the cover off, and given how old the TV is, I'd rather not risk opening it up or move it around any more than I have to.

Now if the dropouts at 100% would subside, I will be a 100% satisfied customer.

By the way, for the experts here who know about the older TV's, what would happen by adjusting the Screen and Focus screws? Is "focus" here the same as the focus on a camera, as in it would make my image look crisper? I'm asking b/c the CM-7000 menus look somewhat blurry to me and adjusting the sharpness doesn’t seem to help.
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post #813 of 1483 Old 10-03-2008, 09:01 PM
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What is the audio quality of the CM like compared to the Zenith? The audio quality of the Zenith is poor to me, it sounds muffled and flat, dialog is poor enough to be hard to understand sometimes with a 6.1 system. I thought Dish Network audio was poor compared to c-band and 4DTV, the Zenith is definitely worse than DN.
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post #814 of 1483 Old 10-03-2008, 09:20 PM
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I own both Zenith and CM. I don't notice any audio quality difference.
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post #815 of 1483 Old 10-04-2008, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwiser View Post

By the way, for the experts here who know about the older TV's, what would happen by adjusting the Screen and Focus screws? Is "focus" here the same as the focus on a camera, as in it would make my image look crisper? I'm asking b/c the CM-7000 menus look somewhat blurry to me and adjusting the sharpness doesn't seem to help.

Yes the focus is like the focus on a camera. Tweak it one way or the other although don't expect it to bee anything like your DTV. Tube sets usually have problems with convergence where the picture may be in focus in the center of the screen but not off to the sides. For your focus control mainly concentrate on the center area of the screen. Again if you're having problems with signal swings and your other devices (on the same cable feed) aren't, I'd suspect a faulty box. Like all electronics devices now days QC isn't that great and bad ones slip by. For a wider comparison all 4 of my CMs have "slightly" better reception that either 2 of my Zenith type boxes, just slightly.
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post #816 of 1483 Old 10-04-2008, 11:21 AM
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Anyone with other converters besides CM and Zenith, do they all have the same crappy audio? If so, I guess I'll just have to give up recording from them. The PQ is fine but audio is terrible.
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post #817 of 1483 Old 10-04-2008, 12:36 PM
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It must be your local TV stations. The sound from both my CM and Zenith units is as good as; if not better than what I get with Verizon Fios; using a digital coaxial connection to my 7.1 receiver.(FIOS SD locals here in DC are only in 2.0)
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post #818 of 1483 Old 10-04-2008, 01:54 PM
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It's not the stations. When I watch the same OTA channels on an HDTV with the audio connected to the receiver audio is excellent, DVD quality or better.
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post #819 of 1483 Old 10-04-2008, 02:12 PM
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I have no complaints about the audio from my Zenith DTT901, my CM-7000 or my Zinwell ZAT-970. Each is using coax RF, and they all sound as good as the HD TV (Sony XBR) internal tuner in mono.

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post #820 of 1483 Old 10-04-2008, 03:31 PM
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I guess I'm just used to higher quality audio.
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post #821 of 1483 Old 10-04-2008, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Kolton View Post

I have no complaints about the audio from my Zenith DTT901, my CM-7000 or my Zinwell ZAT-970. Each is using coax RF, and they all sound as good as the HD TV (Sony XBR) internal tuner in mono.

Why mono? What about stereo?
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post #822 of 1483 Old 10-04-2008, 05:08 PM
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Stereo only through the RCA audio output jacks. It's a cost thing.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

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post #823 of 1483 Old 10-04-2008, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

Anyone with other converters besides CM and Zenith, do they all have the same crappy audio? If so, I guess I'll just have to give up recording from them. The PQ is fine but audio is terrible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

It's not the stations. When I watch the same OTA channels on an HDTV with the audio connected to the receiver audio is excellent, DVD quality or better.

I have the CM-7000, Zenith DTT900 and Digital Stream DTX9900. I have compared audio of all 3 on the same TV using the L/R RCA outputs. To me they sound the same and that includes the audio signal being much weaker -- I have to turn up the TV volume setting past 50% to get a decent volume.

When you note a difference of OTA HD channels running into you receiver, are you comparing apples with apples? Are you running L/R outputs from the TV to the receiver to match the output of a converter box or are you running the digital 5.1 output from the TV to the receiver for true HD sound. If the latter, I think the comparison is kinda meaningless.

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post #824 of 1483 Old 10-04-2008, 06:50 PM
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I use the digital output. I'm not saying the audio should be the same, just that the audio from the station isn't the problem. Like I said, I guess I'm just used to much better audio. I've used many different satellites over the last 15 years, all of them blow away the Zenith converter audio.
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post #825 of 1483 Old 10-04-2008, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

Stereo only through the RCA audio output jacks. It's a cost thing.

I'm assuming that applies only to these CECBs, or is that for all devices? I thought there was other stuff thats able to do stereo output via RF out...like my VCR.
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post #826 of 1483 Old 10-04-2008, 10:43 PM
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Nothing outputs stereo through the RF, it's an FCC thing. The only stereo audio allowed on analog through RF is MTS, it isn't sent from any devices, VCR, cable box, satellite, etc., it comes from the TV transmission and is decoded by the TV, VCR, etc. From the decoder in the VCR line outputs have to be used to receive stereo on the TV.
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post #827 of 1483 Old 10-04-2008, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

Nothing outputs stereo through the RF, it's an FCC thing. The only stereo audio allowed on analog through RF is MTS, it isn't sent from any devices, VCR, cable box, satellite, etc., it comes from the TV transmission and is decoded by the TV, VCR, etc. From the decoder in the VCR line outputs have to be used to receive stereo on the TV.

VCR's and other devices will pass the MTS signal through the RF output; but the internal tuner only modulates a mono RF signal through channel 3 or 4.
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post #828 of 1483 Old 10-05-2008, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

Nothing outputs stereo through the RF, it's an FCC thing. The only stereo audio allowed on analog through RF is MTS, it isn't sent from any devices, VCR, cable box, satellite, etc., it comes from the TV transmission and is decoded by the TV, VCR, etc.

No it's a cost thing! Yes it has to be MTS and there are in fact MTS modulators but they're expensive.
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post #829 of 1483 Old 10-05-2008, 10:17 AM
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No, it's an FCC thing. The FCC only allows MTS through RF which isn't true two channel stereo. Again, NOTHING outputs stereo over RF. MTS is a manipulated stereo audio, not true stereo. After the incoming signal with MTS has gone through the VCR, etc., tuner the signal no longer exists in the output RF.
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post #830 of 1483 Old 10-05-2008, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

No, it's an FCC thing. The FCC only allows MTS through RF which isn't true two channel stereo. Again, NOTHING outputs stereo over RF.

I think you're creating a bit of confusion here. I don't think anyone ever mentioned true stereo sound. I think MTS stereo is implied, as it's the only form of stereo ever transmitted along side NTSC.

You are correct, nothing can output a TRUE stereo signal over RF. But there are tons of tuners which can output an MTS stereo signal, which is no different from the signal analog stations send out.
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post #831 of 1483 Old 10-05-2008, 11:25 AM
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No, they can only pass through the MTS. Once the signal has gone through the tuner MTS no longer exists. In 4+ months MTS will no longer exist except on what few analog cable channels are left so who cares about it anyway?
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post #832 of 1483 Old 10-05-2008, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Symbios View Post

I think you're creating a bit of confusion here. I don't think anyone ever mentioned true stereo sound. I think MTS stereo is implied, as it's the only form of stereo ever transmitted along side NTSC.

Yes it is confusing but it isn't implied. MTS modulators are specifically allowed for in CECBs (but not required) in the NTIA rules.
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post #833 of 1483 Old 10-05-2008, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

I use the digital output. I'm not saying the audio should be the same, just that the audio from the station isn't the problem.

No CECB box has a digital output. It wouldn't work to drive an analogue TV, and isn't allowed by the Feds, either.

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post #834 of 1483 Old 10-05-2008, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Kolton View Post

No CECB box has a digital output. It wouldn't work to drive an analogue TV, and isn't allowed by the Feds, either.

He was talking about the RCA coaxial audio output, which is allowed and is on the CM-7000 box. I'm guessing it's intended to drive a surround sound system.

Enjoying crystal clear TV for free.

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post #835 of 1483 Old 10-06-2008, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

No, they can only pass through the MTS. Once the signal has gone through the tuner MTS no longer exists. In 4+ months MTS will no longer exist except on what few analog cable channels are left so who cares about it anyway?

I'm curious about your outlook. Did you think that MTS wasn't available in the newer digital offering? it is... Backwards compatibility is almost a 'mute point about analog stuff in this transition, but MTS isn't going anywhere. Provisions for it reside in the new specs as mix-down for it as well as many other things we consider analog like closed captioning and various data markers used by locals to insert location-relevant commercials. The people implementing the new offerings can decide to omit the MTS format in the package if they prefer, but it DOES exist in the digital specifications as an option if they want to encode it into the stream if they want too. I thought it a bit odd when I read about it somewhere, but so many TV's that will be fed by CH-2/3/4 are MTS enabled so I guess thats why they did that. Don't get me wrong, no currently available CECB-crippled box even outputs MTS (GRRRR). But after mixing down 5.1 they could. IT IS ON NTIA ALLOWED LIST OF FEATURES. But the price-point on units would make that a waste. But THEY CAN DO THAT.

Please remember that MTS wasn't just for stereo, it serves the SAP (Secondary Audio Programming) aspect of audio analog-upgrade that let's the mexicans, etc. listen to their native language. And yes there is ALSO a digital equivalent to that as well. But they couldn't sweep MTS off the boards due to the current base of installed equipment that people use SAP on as their primary means of getting native language on...had to be grand-fathered in if you get my point. That may be why they had to "Allow" it as an option. I'm not holding my breath to see that implemented though... I would hazard a guess (That I can't back up without extensive google'ing) that the Gov won't let SAP be eliminated in analog form through MTS...

On the topic of CM-7000's. I am in Houston and we got positively creamed during our "Ike" storm. I lost every friggin tree in all directions (none hit the house). And during all that the CM-7000 never missed a beat. These things rule!

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post #836 of 1483 Old 10-06-2008, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonypass View Post

On the CM-7000 are the S-Video, Composite and RF Outputs all active at the same time?

I would like to be able to send one output to a TV and another to a DVD Recorder that only has an Analog tuner. This would be done with either S-Video and Composite or Composite and RF Out.

Thanks.

Yes S-video to the recorder (Always), then leftover Baseband Video (Yellow) to TV

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post #837 of 1483 Old 10-06-2008, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whidbey View Post

He was talking about the RCA coaxial audio output, which is allowed and is on the CM-7000 box.

I knew what he was talking about, but I wasn't sure he did!

Dan
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post #838 of 1483 Old 10-07-2008, 04:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Symbios View Post

You are correct, nothing can output a TRUE stereo signal over RF. But there are tons of tuners which can output an MTS stereo signal, which is no different from the signal analog stations send out.

First off, I have never seen ANY non-tv output Multi-channel stereo. Not VCRs nor DVDs nor DVRs. They output plain-jane monoaural because it's cheaper to implement.

Second, how is MTS not stereo? It has two distinct signals, one of which represents L+R, and the other L-R. When added you get 2L on the left side, and when subtracted you get 2R on the right side. That's true stereo separation.
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post #839 of 1483 Old 10-07-2008, 08:26 PM
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If any of you want stereo through a TV's RF input, there are modulators available to do that. Of course, they'll set you back a bit more than the $40 you saved with your coupon, but they should work with any CECB.
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post #840 of 1483 Old 10-08-2008, 02:03 PM
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I bought two Zenith DTT-900 boxes a few months ago. They were trivial to set up and use. I have never referred to the owner's manual at all. Today I went home on my lunch hour to receive a new Channel Master D2A CM-7000 from UPS. I had time to connect it to my 27" Sony XBR and play with it for about 1/2 an hour. My first impressions: What junk! The buttons on the remote do not seem to do anything (yes, I put the batteries in) including the power button. The front panel power button only works one time in five or so. The only picture I could get was on local Channel 2 (yes, I know this is not old 6 MHz wide chunk at the bottom of the VHF low band). The left border on the image is a squiggly line, not straight. My Zenith does not do this. The most annoying thing is that the unit shuts itself off after a minute or two. It does this every time. What the heck is going on here?

Anyway, I had to get back to work. I'll have to take a longer look at this tonight. Right now I'm wondering what the refund policy is at Summit Source. (They did include a nice S-video cable for free with my purchase.)
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