Channel Master CM-7000 Digital to Analog Converter - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 1483 Old 10-26-2008, 05:49 AM
 
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Solidsignal is the company that was charging $80 to buy the DTVpal (plus another $10 for shipping and no combined ship for multiple boxes). I won't buy from them again unless I have to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwiser View Post

Mine freezes and drops out at 100% on one particular channel.

Remove your antenna amplifier and this problem will disappear. You are overloading the box with too much power.

I know because I was having the identical problem with a strong 100% channel. In a surprising development removing the amp also improved reception for the weak channels too (moving from 20% upto 50%).
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post #902 of 1483 Old 10-26-2008, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post

Remove your antenna amplifier and this problem will disappear. You are overloading the box with too much power.

I know because I was having the identical problem with a strong 100% channel. In a surprising development removing the amp also improved reception for the weak channels too (moving from 20% upto 50%).

I'd heard about that also, so I've always used it without an amp. It still happened once yesterday. I lost a particular channel for a brief time. It came back shortly and was OK the rest of the day. It's extremely intermittent.
I guess under certain conditions, the signal can still get too strong once in awhile (even without any amp). If the CM 7000
sees too much of a signal, it must get scared or something.
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post #903 of 1483 Old 10-26-2008, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsganz View Post

I'd heard about that also, so I've always used it without an amp. It still happened once yesterday. I lost a particular channel for a brief time. It came back shortly and was OK the rest of the day. It's extremely intermittent.
I guess under certain conditions, the signal can still get too strong once in awhile (even without any amp). If the CM 7000
sees too much of a signal, it must get scared or something.

I agree about the strong signal theory. I always thought it was a multipath issue; but I have 2 stations that hiccup only when pointed at the strong signal source.(No amp) When pointed away from them; the 7777 does slightly better with other marginal stations than my Zenith 900 & 901. The strength meter bounces rapidly from 15% to 80%, but the 7777 still has fewer hiccups.
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post #904 of 1483 Old 10-26-2008, 02:14 PM
 
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Well I'd rather have a tuner that is "too sensitive" and can pull-in the weak channels from Baltimore, than a tuner like the DTT900 that is less sensitive and can't receive channels 11 or 13.

The Zenith's inability to get Baltimore was my main reason I downgraded it from #1 to #2 on my list of "best receivers".
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post #905 of 1483 Old 10-28-2008, 12:54 PM
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I ahve noticed that the CM is able to maintain reception when a channel is fading but when it drops below a certain level is sometimes locks out the channel and displays n"no Program" or "Scrambled Program" or similar and then I have to change channels in order to have it re-tune the channel when the signal is stronger. By comparison my Zenith will lose the signal sooner but never locks out the channel i.e. will retune when the signal strength increases.

Another oddity is when I was watching last night the audio glitched and was completely lost after the glitch. Again I had to change channels to get the audio to come back.

Are these common problems or is my CM weird?
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post #906 of 1483 Old 10-29-2008, 12:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finlay648 View Post

I ahve noticed that the CM is able to maintain reception when a channel is fading but when it drops below a certain level is sometimes locks out the channel and displays n"no Program" or "Scrambled Program" or similar and then I have to change channels in order to have it re-tune the channel when the signal is stronger. By comparison my Zenith will lose the signal sooner but never locks out the channel i.e. will retune when the signal strength increases.

Another oddity is when I was watching last night the audio glitched and was completely lost after the glitch. Again I had to change channels to get the audio to come back.

Are these common problems or is my CM weird?

Issues such as you're describing can be relative to location and signal conditions (vs. a problem with the CM).

......finlay648 - why three identical posts?
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post #907 of 1483 Old 10-29-2008, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

Issues such as you're describing can be relative to location and signal conditions (vs. a problem with the CM).

......finlay648 - why three identical posts?

Oops. I was having problems with my internet connection and I guess something caused three messages to go out instead of one.

The reason I think the CM has a problem is because I have a Zenith right next to it tuned to the same channel and i have both displayed at the same time. The CM definitely has better reception but when it drops out it never comes back while the Zenith will drop out and come back when the signal improves.
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post #908 of 1483 Old 10-29-2008, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finlay648 View Post

The CM definitely has better reception but when it drops out it never comes back while the Zenith will drop out and come back when the signal improves.

If the info button is pushed (displaying the signal strength etc.) the signal will come back on when the reception improves.
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post #909 of 1483 Old 10-29-2008, 08:49 AM
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Anyone else observing this:

Sometimes I will turn on the CM-7000, the station will be received, then the screen will go blank as the tuner reboots (red light, then initial product screen) before returning to receiving the station.
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post #910 of 1483 Old 10-29-2008, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zqxthree View Post

Anyone else observing this:

Sometimes I will turn on the CM-7000, the station will be received, then the screen will go blank as the tuner reboots (red light, then initial product screen) before returning to receiving the station.

I've seen a couple of CM-7000 and never witnessed what you are seeing. The only time I see a red light is when I unplug it from the electrical outlet. I guess this poor build quality is expected for a device that is $20+ and maybe that is why there is no reputable Tier 1 electronics company building these CECBs. I would exchange it.
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post #911 of 1483 Old 10-29-2008, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsganz View Post

If the info button is pushed (displaying the signal strength etc.) the signal will come back on when the reception improves.

That has not been my experience - in both cases with the info on or off I see the same behavior. Since no one else seems to be experiencing these problems I'm being to feel that my unit has a problem.
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post #912 of 1483 Old 10-29-2008, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zqxthree View Post

Anyone else observing this:

Sometimes I will turn on the CM-7000, the station will be received, then the screen will go blank as the tuner reboots (red light, then initial product screen) before returning to receiving the station.

I have had my CM-7000 for a month or so and I have never had that happen to me. The only ways I get a red light is to unplug it or after the diagnostic menu.
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post #913 of 1483 Old 10-29-2008, 03:51 PM
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finlay648, Somewhere back in this thread their was a guy who's local station regularly went off the air for a period of time during the night. I think he was using his CM to feed a recorder for a event sometime in the morning. He noted that most of the time he just got the scrambled message on his recordings. I think it was determined that if the CM lost it's signal when the signal came back on it might say scrambled.
Note I've never seen this on any of my 4 CMs but all my OTA stations are 24hrs and most of my recording is done during the evening and then I turn the CMs off before bed. IOW it would be rare that I would see this even if it was happening. Nice to know the Zenith doesn't do that. Too bad the Zeniths don't have S-video
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post #914 of 1483 Old 10-29-2008, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finlay648 View Post

I ahve noticed that the CM is able to maintain reception when a channel is fading but when it drops below a certain level is sometimes locks out the channel and displays n"no Program" or "Scrambled Program" or similar and then I have to change channels in order to have it re-tune the channel when the signal is stronger. By comparison my Zenith will lose the signal sooner but never locks out the channel i.e. will retune when the signal strength increases.

Another oddity is when I was watching last night the audio glitched and was completely lost after the glitch. Again I had to change channels to get the audio to come back.

Are these common problems or is my CM weird?


I have had my CM since summer, it's my primary CECB, and today was the first time I got the "no program" and "scrambled program" messages. We've had a lot of tower work over the last couple months, with power reductions or completely shut off. So it's odd to me that I'm just now seeing these messages.

Today I left the tv on and when I came back in the room, the "no program" message was there. I switched to that station's other subchannel, and flipping between the two, at some point also got the scrambled program message. Then I went up to the next station and got a picture, and going back down again, the picture returned on the two bad subchannels. The signal strength was diving between 100 and the mid 40s. They have been doing tower work recently.

The CM does seem to make more of a fuss over changes. I'm with jjeff, too bad Zenith doesn't have S-video. But then I'd want a 12 hour guide, too...
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post #915 of 1483 Old 10-30-2008, 06:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finlay648 View Post

displays "no Program" or "Scrambled Program" or similar and then I have to change channels in order to have it re-tune the channel when the signal is stronger.

Yes, but mine doesn't lock out the channel who it displays "no program". It only locks-out the channel in the case of "scrambled program". And that lock-out is only temporary... it eventually recovers the signal if it grows strong-enough.

As for the Zenith, there are a number of channels that it can "see" but not display. In contrast the CM7000 will display the channel even if it's pixelated, so the CM7000 actually provides 2 more channels than the Zenith does.
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post #916 of 1483 Old 10-30-2008, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post

Yes, but mine doesn't lock out the channel who it displays "no program". It only locks-out the channel in the case of "scrambled program". And that lock-out is only temporary... it eventually recovers the signal if it grows strong-enough.

How long does it take to recover? Maybe I didn't wait long enough but I haven't seen it recover yet the Zenith has. Do you have a sense of how strong the signal has to be before it recovers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post

As for the Zenith, there are a number of channels that it can "see" but not display. In contrast the CM7000 will display the channel even if it's pixelated, so the CM7000 actually provides 2 more channels than the Zenith does.

My experience is similar. If you can believe the CM signal strength display, the CM can produce a good picture at 15-20%.
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post #917 of 1483 Old 10-31-2008, 04:17 AM
 
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You can't really go by the display. 20% on a CM is equivalent to ~70% on a Zenith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by finlay648 View Post

How long does it take to recover?

An hour. The signal has to grow very strong before the CM7000 will "unlock" the scrambled program and display an image. It's actually a rather stupid design; OTA doesn't do scrambled programming, so there was no reason for it to be included.

Still the CM7000 outperforms the DTVenemy and the Zinwell VCR Timer box, so I'm sticking with the CM7000.
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post #918 of 1483 Old 11-07-2008, 09:09 PM
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Hi All, my first post here...
I'm just comparing my first two boxes, a CM-7000 and a Tivax STB-T8. The CM has a particularly annoying artifact that I'd haven't seen discussed anywhere (for any brand/model box). On 2 of the 5 Chicago stations that transmit 1280x720p (60Hz frame rate) I usually but not always get what looks like very jerky motion artifacts as if I was only getting 1 out of 4 frames (i.e. 15 Hz frame rate). There are no other video artifacts (no obvious pixelization) and the picture is very sharp (on my oldie 1985 27" fine pitch Trinitron). The Tivax isn't quite as sharp, but hasn't got a hint of this problem. I get 33 stations at 100% on both units, being about 7 miles from the transmitters. I thought perhaps it might be an RF overload problem or multipath, so I intentionally mis-aimed my attic mounted antenna about +/- 30 degrees with no change.

I suspect I should exchange the CM, but if any one can offer some suggestions (practical or theoretical) I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Jim
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post #919 of 1483 Old 11-08-2008, 05:18 AM
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I can't say as if I've ever seen the jerky frames that you're talking about on any of my 4 CMs but one of my 4 had a reception problem in which the signal would swing drastically. Luckily it wasn't my first box so I knew it wasn't normal. After exchanging the box the new one was fine so it is quite possible your box has a problem. QC on any of these boxes isn't the best. I'd call CM and see what they say. If you bought yours locally I'd just try exchanging it first. It shouldn't be doing what your describing. Maybe someone else has experienced this...
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post #920 of 1483 Old 11-08-2008, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moto19 View Post

On 2 of the 5 Chicago stations I usually but not always get what looks like very jerky motion as if I was only getting 1 out of 4 frames (i.e. 15 Hz frame rate). There are no other video artifacts (no obvious pixelization) and the picture is very sharp. I thought perhaps it might be an RF overload problem or multipath, so I intentionally mis-aimed my attic mounted antenna about +/- 30 degrees with no change.

Yeah, I have that on one of the 16 channels I get from Scranton PA.
No artifacts or pixelation with a sharp picture....but jerky.
Funny thing is, it's on 56.1 but not on 56.2 or 56.3 which are fine.
I also noticed it's only when the station sends out a program
originating from their facility. When they switch over to a network feed (FOX), then it's nice and smooth!
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post #921 of 1483 Old 11-08-2008, 08:32 PM
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Quote:


Yeah, I have that on one of the 16 channels I get from Scranton PA.
No artifacts or pixelation with a sharp picture....but jerky.
Funny thing is, it's on 56.1 but not on 56.2 or 56.3 which are fine.
I also noticed it's only when the station sends out a program
originating from their facility. When they switch over to a network feed (FOX), then it's nice and smooth!

Hi jsganz. Is this with the CM-7000 also, and do you have any other models to compare the problem with to determine if the CM-7000 is the only one sensitive to this? Also, is 56.1 transmitting 720p? 56.2 or 56.3 would be standard definition sub-channels, and therefore probably 480i which never seems to have this problem.
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post #922 of 1483 Old 11-09-2008, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moto19 View Post

Hi jsganz. Is this with the CM-7000 also, and do you have any other models to compare the problem with to determine if the CM-7000 is the only one sensitive to this? Also, is 56.1 transmitting 720p? 56.2 or 56.3 would be standard definition sub-channels, and therefore probably 480i which never seems to have this problem.

As of now, the two CM-7000's are the only ones I have. You're right, the 56.1 is 720p whereas the other subs are 480i. Only thing is, the
problem only shows up when the station is broadcasting their own stuff. During primetime or a football game (which are piped in from FOX), everything is fine. So, in my case anyhow, I think it might be the local station itself that's causing this.

How does yours behave when comparing network shows to the local ones?
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post #923 of 1483 Old 11-10-2008, 06:40 AM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by jsganz
As of now, the two CM-7000's are the only ones I have. You're right, the 56.1 is 720p whereas the other subs are 480i. Only thing is, the
problem only shows up when the station is broadcasting their own stuff. During primetime or a football game (which are piped in from FOX), everything is fine. So, in my case anyhow, I think it might be the local station itself that's causing this.

How does yours behave when comparing network shows to the local ones?

Good question - I'm not quite sure what's local and what's not on these two stations. 26.1 WCIU is a local independent, but I don't see the problem all the time. 50.1 WPWR is a MyNetworkTV-affiliate. I barely watch this station and therefore can't comment yet. I'll have to collect more clues over time. I think I need to talk with Channel Master about this.
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post #924 of 1483 Old 11-10-2008, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moto19 View Post

Good question - I'm not quite sure what's local and what's not on these two stations. 26.1 WCIU is a local independent, but I don't see the problem all the time. 50.1 WPWR is a MyNetworkTV-affiliate. I barely watch this station and therefore can't comment yet. I'll have to collect more clues over time. I think I need to talk with Channel Master about this.

If you are seeing a problem with only local programming, you might try to email the station. This digital stuff is all rather new, and they might be working out the "bugs"....waiting on new hardware. We ran into this around here with our locals, who's Station Engineer is kind enough to keep us informed on. You might also see if there is an AVSForum covering your local OTA area. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...aysprune=&f=45

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post #925 of 1483 Old 11-11-2008, 12:10 AM
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An engineer for WCIU-DT posts over in the local Chicago OTA thread regularly. It's an ongoing problem on 26.1 that's been happening for months. Go over there and complain to him. We've done it plenty already, but one more can't hurt.

I can't speak for WPWR-DT, because I don't ever watch it - but it's definitely the station with 26.1 - it's not your box, so don't worry.
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post #926 of 1483 Old 11-12-2008, 12:33 PM
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I posted this on the Zinwell Zat970A thread, but am posting on the same topic here only because so many of us of are looking for a VCR recording solution.

The CM7000 remote's up/down button changes the Zat channel. Entering a channel via keypad does not change the Zat channel, but it brings up a menu screen on the Zat, which messes up the picture being recorded. So there's the warning: if you choose the CM7000/Zat970A combination in the same location, you will have to mask the front of the Zat while you are recording and using the CM7000 remote at the same time.
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post #927 of 1483 Old 11-12-2008, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

I posted this on the Zinwell Zat970A thread, but am posting on the same topic here only because so many of us of are looking for a VCR recording solution.

The CM7000 remote's up/down button changes the Zat channel. Entering a channel via keypad does not change the Zat channel, but it brings up a menu screen on the Zat, which messes up the picture being recorded. So there's the warning: if you choose the CM7000/Zat970A combination in the same location, you will have to mask the front of the Zat while you are recording and using the CM7000 remote at the same time.

Thanks for the information! I have been looking at my options for timer recordings. Since I have the CM7000 already I think I will probably go with the DTVpal. (bleh) Unless a new box comes out that has a timer! (not holding my breath). I am waiting to apply for my final coupon until the last moment to get the latest firmware on the DTVpal.
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post #928 of 1483 Old 11-12-2008, 04:03 PM
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I just posted a conflict over on the DTX9950 thread. Instead of repeating the details, here's the link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post15059589
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post #929 of 1483 Old 11-13-2008, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northbear View Post

Since I have the CM7000 already I think I will probably go with the DTVpal. (bleh)

"Bleh" is right, when it comes to the drop in PQ from the Channel Master to the DTVPal, so be prepared.
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post #930 of 1483 Old 11-13-2008, 03:08 PM
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There is no clear winner of event timer to pair with CM7000. I use the second CECB for PiP when I'm not recording, so I'd have to fix the remote control problem to keep the Zat there. OTOH, if stations fix their clock accuracy, the TR40 problems are solved. I have to think that stations will address clock accuracy sooner or later.
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