Channel Master CM-7000 Digital to Analog Converter - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 1483 Old 02-22-2009, 12:36 PM
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fyi
Amazon has them
http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master.../dp/B000XQTDR2
Will take the coupon on line.
Free 2 day shipping for Prime members.
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post #1082 of 1483 Old 02-23-2009, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qvo1999 View Post

My observation is that the DTT901 can handle multipath just a bit better than CM-7000.

I would like to ask why this was so for you?

I'm not contesting your findings, I'm just genuinely curious.

I owned both the DTT-900 with newer tuner (Not original Sanyo tuner), and the newer DTT-901 with APT (Analog Pass-Through). I live with a major city between me and my broadcasters "Antenna Farm".
I'm also buried in thick woods

I am also in the flight path of an international airport. Neither Zenith would hold ANY of the 30 channels/subs during air traffic. Not one channel. The two Channel Master CM-7000's I traded them for never miss a beat. Ever.
Odd?

I will say that I can easily overload the CM-7000's if I turn up my distribution amplifier a touch to much.
Did you have an overly strong signal or a lot of amplification during your test perhaps?
The CM's get a bit edgy if they get to much RF.

My equipment is the largest RS boom antenna they could ship before the max length was lowered by UPS with a mast-mount Channel Master CM-7777 preamp. I have the VHF and UHF active elements seperated to utilize the seperate inputs on that model. RG-11 Quad-Shield runs inside to an (old) Blonder-Tongue distribution amp that has variable gain. I remember taking the inside stuff off and connecting both Zenith's directly to the CM-7777 power injector where the downfeed enters my home as a test, they were no better.

To others new to this topic the Zenith units are very nice units inside and out. They are well built. I feel they are a very close second. I still recommend them for the second coupon in spite of my own experience. An overwelming number of people have good success with these units.

They did find and show *Almost* all of my available channels. Only missed a few weak ones. They just didn't do airliners at all for me. I'm the exception installation.

Oh, and if your on a power grid that "Blinks" once every night and every afternoon like us, expect lockups on the Zenith's. Very fustrating if (like me) you record to watch later and skip the 52-55% of each hours commercials! During the time I had them I used a UPS on the newer 901, and I soldered larger electrolytic capacitors into the earlier 900's power supply so they wouldn't freeze up... Just a quirk I thought I should note for people...

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post #1083 of 1483 Old 02-23-2009, 02:41 PM
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Quote:


I am also in the flight path of an international airport. Neither Zenith would hold ANY of the 30 channels/subs during air traffic. Not one channel. The two Channel Master CM-7000's I traded them for never miss a beat. Ever.

It is just an observation, nothing scientific. When there is multipath, the signal meter varies widely (e.g. 30% to 70%) in sub-seconds, the CM-7000 can't hold the picture/audio well (picture constantly in and out) while for a steady channel at weaker20% strength, the picture/audio is perfect. When I use the DTT901, the picture seems to hold a bit better for signals with constantly fluctuating strength.

I don't have air traffic problem so I can't give any comments. It may or may not be a multipath issue. It could be explained as temporary blockage of LOS; the CM-7000 may have a longer observation time with smart processing to bridge the gap in case of temporary signal loss. Just a guess.

I don't have overload problem; most stations are 90 miles away.
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post #1084 of 1483 Old 02-23-2009, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moto19 View Post

From post 931:
CM-7000 dropped frames (stutter / judder, etc.) on 720p only....
I'm just comparing my first two DTV converter boxes, a CM-7000 and a Tivax STB-T8. The CM has a particularly annoying motion artifact on 2 of the 5 Chicago stations (WCIU-DT 26.1 and WPWR-DT 50.1) that transmit 1280x720p (60Hz frame rate). I usually but not always get what looks like very jerky motion artifacts as if I was only getting 1 out of 4 frames (i.e. 15 Hz frame rate). There are no other obvious artifacts and the picture is very sharp.

Was there any solution or follow up on this?

I'm experiencing the exact same problem on WCIU-DT 26.1 and WPWR-DT 50.1.

It ONLY happens on the CM-7000 (I have four other OTA tuners that don't display this problem: Samsung; ATI; Hauppauge; DirecTv)
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post #1085 of 1483 Old 02-24-2009, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnNadeau View Post

I'm experiencing the exact same problem on WCIU-DT 26.1 and WPWR-DT 50.1.

You're getting those stations and you're in Michigan? Hey, not bad.

I have the same problem here with the CM. That's one of the reasons I stopped using it for the time being.

If you check our local Chicago OTA thread, I think people with other tuners besides the CM have it, and an engineer from WCIU that posts there regularly seems pretty symied about it. It's been going on for months and months now. They just did some kind of software update, but it didn't seem to help much. Maybe if you went on over there and explained it liked you did here it might help.
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post #1086 of 1483 Old 02-24-2009, 03:22 AM
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TY for the reply qvo1999, and others.

My instinct goes straight to one area of all RF receivers. AGC (Automatic Gain Control).

There is (in all receivers) be it AM/FM/TV/SW/Etc an early circuit stage that automaticly controls the gain of the RF signal passing through it to keep the output of that stage within a needed range for the stage that follows it.
There is of course a set of rise and fall times designed into that AGC stage to cotrol how fast it reacts to changes.

I have also noticed that the "Signal Strength" (A misnomer really) of the CM-7000 has unusually fast rise and fall times indicating an AGC stage might have response times that may turn out to be to fast and suffer the drawback of over-comphensating wildly, hence loosing lock.

Remember, this was designed by the same people that got the de-bounce algorithm horribly wrong on those matrix-scanned buttons on the actual box iself making them repond so quickly they cause double entriesfrom just the contact chatter associated with standard click-dot microswitches....

That would make this problem something that could be overcome by a revised firmware if the the rise/fall timing variables are set within the firmware itself instead of old fashioned R/C timing implemtations.

Of course, having seen the lack of response or even interest from Channel Master / PCT International towards the feedback given by people (that have posted here) about attempting to get them to address the contact bounce issue, I don't think we will see this corrected anytime soon...

It would explain why some people have problems with CM-7000's, where others don't.
My slowly changing/advancing airliner multipath, verses the fast-echo type of multipath of buildings and hills would fit the symptoms.

Remember that old UHF loop antenna and the quickly flickering screen you would get if you turned it in a way that it incorrectly favored the flickering multipath of a bounced signal instead of the actual main signal? I suspect the CM-7000 follows that fast flicker and looses lock.

All theoretical conjecture of course, but a thought that might lead to the answer.

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post #1087 of 1483 Old 02-24-2009, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

...Maybe if you went on over there and explained it liked you did here it might help.


Thanks Rammitinski... I just posted over there too per your recommendation.
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post #1088 of 1483 Old 02-24-2009, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnNadeau View Post

Was there any solution or follow up on this?

I'm experiencing the exact same problem on WCIU-DT 26.1 and WPWR-DT 50.1.

It ONLY happens on the CM-7000 (I have four other OTA tuners that don't display this problem: Samsung; ATI; Hauppauge; DirecTv)

Heard back from Channel 50.1:
Thank you for your email. We are aware and are actively working to resolve this issue. This issue affects certain Samsung and LG/Zenith television sets and converter boxes. We hope to have resolution shortly.
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post #1089 of 1483 Old 02-25-2009, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThePeople View Post

My instinct goes straight to one area of all RF receivers. AGC (Automatic Gain Control).

Yes, the fast response time of an AGC loop could be problematic in a fast changing multipath environment. We all just speculate here; wish that any design engineer from CM can either confirm or dissent.

Another weird problem specific to CM-7000 is sometimes when I first switch to a channel, there is no picture. There is slight chance that this is due to the AGC loop just hang up in an unstable state.
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post #1090 of 1483 Old 02-25-2009, 01:12 PM
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Amazon.com is selling the CM-7000 for $49.99 and it qualifies for the free shipping (for purchases over $25) even after the $40 coupon is applied. I just ordered it for a total cost of $9.99! Interestingly, the coupon was said to be good for 50 days for Amazon converter boxes after I submitted it today, although its expiration date was tomorrow. It should come March 2nd---I wasn't in a hurry to get it.

Dana
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post #1091 of 1483 Old 02-26-2009, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwiser View Post

Today one of the stations I watch OTA pulled the plug early and I started noticing on my CM-7000 the same thing Lazlo or whoever saw, where the signal fluctuates from 20% to 80%. The kicker is that I've been watching this channel for the past 9 months on my CM-7000 with their signal strength at a constant 100% and perfect picture/sound. I think that up until today they were on UHF, and that for the transition they moved back to VHF. They're located almost 50 miles away.

You may want to check with the station if they beef up the power. The plan is the stations carry both analog and digital during transition time will output DTV at half (or so) power. They should turn to full power when cut the cord of analog. I guess this mean to save the electrical bill for the broadcasters.
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post #1092 of 1483 Old 02-27-2009, 04:42 AM
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Amazon.Com increased the price of the CM 7000 to $57.94!!! It's the third time I see them adjust prices (either up or down) on items. It's happened before when I bought the Sony XDR-F1HD HD Radio tuner when they dropped the price from $87 to $85... and now the tuner seems to only be available from a 3rd party store on Amazon.Com which charges $75 + shipping.

Free shipping still applies to the CM 7000 though.

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post #1093 of 1483 Old 02-27-2009, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YUL-STL View Post

Amazon.Com increased the price of the CM 7000 to $57.94!!! It's the third time I see them adjust prices (either up or down) on items. It's happened before when I bought the Sony XDR-F1HD HD Radio tuner when they dropped the price from $87 to $85... and now the tuner seems to only be available from a 3rd party store on Amazon.Com which charges $75 + shipping.

Free shipping still applies to the CM 7000 though.

YUL-STL

Darn! I saw that yesterday for $49.99 and was wondering how long that was going to last. I won some amazon.com gift cards and I was waiting for them to arrive before I ordered. I don't live in the US, so I'm not using the coupon.

Has it been $49.99 before, or was this the first time?
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post #1094 of 1483 Old 02-27-2009, 04:35 PM
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I just logged into Amazon and sent them feedback about the price increase.

Maybe they listen...maybe not...check the price regularly.

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post #1095 of 1483 Old 02-28-2009, 05:15 AM
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cheeseburger:

It was $49.99 on Amazon.Com just a few days ago. And it's $45.99 + $9.95 shipping on SolidSignal.

I'm in Canada too, but you can get these shipped to parcel stores near the border and just drive across for pickup.

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post #1096 of 1483 Old 02-28-2009, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbonater View Post

Just curious if everyone complaining about the font size has gone into the menu and changed the font to max and also change the font type. I did this on my 36" and it is perfectly viewable. If you use the max size of the default font it still sucks, but the second or third choice is much larger and more readable.

Happened to see this only now. It's interesting that so many people had reported problems with the captions from the ChannelMaster being too small but hadn't tried the different fonts as you did. I wish I'd read this earlier as I'm afraid I passed on erroneous information to other people about the CM7000 not being able to provide large enough captions.

Dana
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post #1097 of 1483 Old 02-28-2009, 04:54 PM
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I have mine on large and Font 4, it's the best I found. On 32" screen, it is adequate but not acceptable for people with vision problems. I think most people compare their CECB's cc to what they had with analog, and there is no comparison.

ETA: and the CM7000 IMO is nowhere near as good on cc as the Zenith.
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post #1098 of 1483 Old 02-28-2009, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

I have mine on large and Font 4, it's the best I found. On 32" screen, it is adequate but not acceptable for people with vision problems. I think most people compare their CECB's cc to what they had with analog, and there is no comparison.

ETA: and the CM7000 IMO is nowhere near as good on cc as the Zenith.

Thanks for this feedback, particularly that you think Font 4 is the best one.

I goofed big time by not doublechecking earlier whether there was a review of the captions from the CM-7000. There's one at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post13506638

and it shows a picture of the Font 4 set to large, which is not sufficiently large compared to captions provided by other devices. (I have the Insignia myself, and its largest captions can span the width of the screen.)


Dana
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post #1099 of 1483 Old 02-28-2009, 06:15 PM
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Maybe some of it is station specific? Or TV -- I don't have fancy comb filters. With the Zenith I don't get captions as large as yours look (and I did try Font 7), but they are more readable than the CM7000. For program detail, the CM program paragraph seems to have horizontal lines in it that make it harder to read than the Zenith, which isn't great itself. For program banners, the Pal and Zinwell are larger. I have the early Zinwell 970A with the hidden features, and the program detail is easy to read. It doesn't have adjustable cc that I've found, but it's larger and more readable across the room. I like the CM's cc the least of my CECBs, even though it's my primary CECB.
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post #1100 of 1483 Old 03-02-2009, 02:21 PM
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[quote=Jimbonater;14594064]Just curious if everyone complaining about the font size has gone into the menu and changed the font to max and also change the font type. I did this on my 36" and it is perfectly viewable. If you use the max size of the default font it still sucks, but the second or third choice is much larger and more readable.
quote]

Check out my posting at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post15940343

It contains pictures of captions from different sources. It would be helpful to have there digital pictures of different caption fonts set to large from the ChannelMaster. Two other owners have thought Font4 was the largest, whereas you've thought Font2 and Font3 are the better ones to use.

You can also see there that the "large" Font4 is still smaller than the captions available from other CECBs.

Dana
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post #1101 of 1483 Old 03-05-2009, 01:17 AM
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A very important feature to all the Tivo (and other DVR and recorders) owners who are using the OTA DTV box is to keep the converter box on all the time, even after power interruption. We have been search a way to turn on the box automatically when the power is restored. The Tivo will do that by itself but does no good if the converter stays off. The alternative way is keep the box (and maybe Tivo too) on the UPS all the time.

I was ready to hack the CM7000 to auto power on but stumbled to a feature I have not seen from the discussion yet.

The CM7000 has a feature (hidden) called “last known state”, in general term. Simply say it will return to last power state after power is restored. If the unit was on, it will turn on by itself (after the 30 second RED boot state then turn to GREEN on state). If the unit was in “standby”, it will turn on for a second than go back to standby (RED->GREEN->ORANGE). I did not find this in the manual. Fact is the manual not even have the disable auto-sleep listed in “tools” tab.

Not like the DTA809, I found that CM7000 is powered all the time. There is no “off” state, only “standby”. This is implied in the manual under “troubleshooting” too. As far as I can tell the only place the power been gate off is the tuner.

Now the auto-power on is there. I just need to be careful not to put CM7000 in standby by accident.

I have two CM7000 on two Tivo S1. And, I like the CM7000 even more than before.....
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post #1102 of 1483 Old 03-05-2009, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YUL-STL View Post

cheeseburger:

It was $49.99 on Amazon.Com just a few days ago. And it's $45.99 + $9.95 shipping on SolidSignal.

I'm in Canada too, but you can get these shipped to parcel stores near the border and just drive across for pickup.

YUL-STL

Thank you. I'll keep that in mind for next time. I'm going to be taking a trip to the US soon, so I've just decided to stick with amazon.com since I have to use up my gift card.
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post #1103 of 1483 Old 03-05-2009, 09:05 AM
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I tried contacting Channel Master technical support in regards to setting the output level to match other components. As you know, the volume output from the Channel Master is variable. With other devices that I have with variable outputs, whether they are boom boxes or televisions, somewhere in the manual it states what volume setting will produce 'line level' output.

I may not be using exactly the correct terms; any correction is welcome. As an example of what I am trying to describe, my television has a set of variable audio outputs. In the manual, it says that if the television is attached to an amplifier, and you are using the amplifier to control the volume, you should set the television volume to 25.

I tried emailing Channel Master, and got back an answer which said that, to the tech, it seemed like around 80% was correct. I emailed back, and asked if they might be able to get a more definitive answer. The tech at Channel Master emailed be back a note which I thought was either an attempt at humor, or rather rude, but in either case no further information was forthcoming.

Yes, I can set it by ear. But that can be a tricky thing. And I've had experiences where I've missed problems setting things by ear.

Anyone else want to try contacting the company?
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post #1104 of 1483 Old 03-05-2009, 02:22 PM
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twey-Is the "last know state" something that's enabled in the menus? I haven't seen it but would like to enable it because I also use my CM to feed a recorder but actually they're both on a UPS so it might not be that important for me.
BenDB-I use 100% when recording to DVD and the DVDs sound the same level as commercial DVDs or when I record from the DVDRs built in analog tuner. I believe 100% is no attenuation while anything less just adds attenuation.
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post #1105 of 1483 Old 03-05-2009, 02:35 PM
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No, the "last known state" is a general term used in electronic devices. You may seen this in the PC BIOS setup under "power lost recovery".

The CM-7000 has it without any change or setup. I am not sure is this "feature" is firmware dependent or all the CM box has it. My two boxes are just a month old.

Try this on yours: turn on the CM-7000, unplug power, plug back in and see if it turn back to green or not.

I tried with auto-sleep setting on or off, no difference.
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post #1106 of 1483 Old 03-05-2009, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDB View Post

I tried contacting Channel Master technical support in regards to setting the output level to match other components. As you know, the volume output from the Channel Master is variable. With other devices that I have with variable outputs, whether they are boom boxes or televisions, somewhere in the manual it states what volume setting will produce 'line level' output.....

FYI

The CM-7000 has a audio output amplifier (LM833) at line out. The feedback resistors can be changed to increase line output if necessary. Job for the hackers.
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post #1107 of 1483 Old 03-05-2009, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twey View Post


Try this on yours: turn on the CM-7000, unplug power, plug back in and see if it turn back to green or not.

I tried with auto-sleep setting on or off, no difference.

So it did It did just as you said it should do. That is first it was red for 30 seconds, then it went to green. I hadn't remembered it did this, mine is one of the original CMs.
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post #1108 of 1483 Old 03-16-2009, 04:14 PM
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I just picked up a CM-7000. I found that for a particular station/channel, the local FOX/CW affiliate KHON in Honolulu, HI, only the real/RF channel is recognized by the box. The CM-7000 identifies according to the real/RF channels (8-1 and 8-2) rather than by the virtual channels (2-1 and 2-2). The virtual channel, callsign (KHON-HD and KHON-CW) and EPG/program info are not picked up by the CM-7000, yet I know that the info is actively available since our other dtv converter boxes (Zenith, DigitalStream) do pick it up, and still readily pick it up when I perform rescans or request program info with them.

I need the virtual channel to be recognized so that the CM-7000 can be controlled by my replaytv dvr, whose program guide goes by the virtual channels.

The reception of the particular station is strong. There is no trouble picking of the broadcast signal. I have tried rescanning several times on various occasions, but the box has never been able to pick up the virtual channel, callsign, and EPG/program info. Other channels/stations are fine.

Is this a known problem with this box, or a problem that perhaps has been fixed with later production units? My version info is included below:

s/w version: b7707_lpm 52.5dc001
built: 20080714

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
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post #1109 of 1483 Old 03-16-2009, 06:31 PM
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warme,

Are you doing a complete re-scan, or an update scan? My CM converter also has a bit more difficulty with a problematic channel than my Zenith or Digital Stream do. The root of the problem most certainly lies with the station for me, but if I do a few "update" scans, the virtual channel is eventually added into the memory. I then go in and delete the undesired channels from the memory.

I would suspect your local station is the cause of the issue with your CM converter as well. You may want to go to your local thread to see if others are having issues.

The FCC will not take any action unless someone complains. The problem station here in Washington DC has had this issue since last summer, and it is still not fixed.
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post #1110 of 1483 Old 03-17-2009, 04:27 AM
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Thanks for your note and thoughts, Digital Rules. I've tried both: complete rescans as well as update scans. Each update scan I've tried returns with 0 new channels found, while complete rescans return with the same results each time.

I haven't been able to find anything in my "Local HDTV Info and Reception" thread to indicate others with the same experience, but perhaps I'll post there as well.

The fact that my CM-7000 has no similar trouble with other stations may indicate that the 'problem' station may be doing something different. On the other hand, our Digital Stream and Zenith dtv converter boxes as well as a couple of pc atsc tuners have no problems at all actively retrieving the virtual channel (and other) info for this station, which indicates the CM-7000 is different in some way.

To recap, my particular problem is with KHON-DT in Honolulu and the CM-7000 recognizing it only by the real/RF channel (8-1 and 8-2) while not being able to pick up the virtual channel (2-1 and 2-1) plus callsign and EPG/program info. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone else where or elsewhere with a similar problem. Thanks a bundle.
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