Tivax STB-T9 EPG - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 256 Old 04-24-2008, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexus2108 View Post

what is a "funia box" can you give more details

A box made by Funai Corporation
Magnavox TB100MW9 http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/TB100HH9.pdf
Magnavox TB-100MG9*
Philco TB150HH9*
Philco TB100HH9* http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/TB100HH9.pdf

Other brands are
Symphonic | Sylvania | Emerson | Durabrand
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post #32 of 256 Old 04-24-2008, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malouff View Post

A box made by Funai Corporation
Magnavox TB100MW9 http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/TB100HH9.pdf
Magnavox TB-100MG9*
Philco TB150HH9*
Philco TB100HH9* http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/TB100HH9.pdf

Other brands are
Symphonic | Sylvania | Emerson | Durabrand

I have an Emerson 19" HDTV which is made by funai, not the best but not bad for $198.00.
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post #33 of 256 Old 04-24-2008, 01:34 PM
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"A box made by Funai Corporation
Magnavox TB100MW9 http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/TB100HH9.pdf
Magnavox TB-100MG9*
Philco TB150HH9*
Philco TB100HH9* http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/TB100HH9.pdf"


So which box does he have? Why not just tell us the brand?
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post #34 of 256 Old 04-24-2008, 01:35 PM
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satpro, can you confirm that the Tivax box allows you to manually enter or edit channels without doing a complete rescan/erase?

I think this is the box to go with, but I would like the ability to manually add and delete individual channels and I read somewhere that you can't do that with this box (some CECBs apparently only allow you to do a complete rescan for new channels).

Thanks for the help.
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post #35 of 256 Old 04-24-2008, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexus2108 View Post

So which box does he have? Why not just tell us the brand?

Your original question was not what box satpro had but what a Funai Box is.
satpro has reported having two Magnavox TB100MW9's and made a mod to one "drilled some ventilation holes"
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post #36 of 256 Old 04-24-2008, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malouff View Post

Your original question was not what box satpro had but what a Funai Box is.
satpro has reported having two Magnavox TB100MW9's and made a mod to one "drilled some ventilation holes"

Yea I am waiting for the TB100GW9 with passthru to be in Sears stores. I hope the also fixed the vent problem. The box looked different in pic on sears website and at $50 it is worth $10 to get an extra box
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post #37 of 256 Old 04-24-2008, 01:59 PM
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lexus check out the TRT thread
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post #38 of 256 Old 04-24-2008, 02:15 PM
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i say if channels don't want to get with the program and change to digital then the hell with them. Even the spanish channels 41/47/68 in NY have gone digital.
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post #39 of 256 Old 04-24-2008, 02:16 PM
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The screen caps pictured of the Tivax are identical to those of my RJ Tech RJ-900 STB.

Bob

The views expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of ABC, CBS, CW, FOX, MeTv, or AntennaTv; my employer; or its parent company.
Nor my wife for that matter!
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post #40 of 256 Old 04-24-2008, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malouff View Post

So this is how we would look/test for all of your suspected boxes not listed with passthru

We would look for a setting in the menu.
So would the box need to be powered on or off?

If you can access the converter box menus while the box is OFF, give it a try...
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post #41 of 256 Old 04-24-2008, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagger666 View Post

If you already have a wide screen tv why would you need a decoder box? None of these will give you HD and please don't tell me you fell for the HD ready tv sold with out the HD tuners. That always seam stupid move to me

Besides all the points mentioned, a CECB is great for Samsung HDTV's PIP. Because it is crippled to Analog only and can only change channels by Up/Down.
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post #42 of 256 Old 04-24-2008, 08:16 PM
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Just took a look at the screen shots.

The graphics/menu system look identical to a 4:3 Insigia 15" LCD TV I have from Best Buy.
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post #43 of 256 Old 04-25-2008, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

If you can access the converter box menus while the box is OFF, give it a try...

Who could access a box with it powered OFF - I expected more from you

I was meaning to see if you could access the Analog stations with the converter box off.

I have stated several times I don't own a converter box yet.
I was wanting to know how people who bought boxes that you have suspected to have PassThru can test for it.

I apparently don't know the right questions, or didn't know how to ask them correctly LOL.
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post #44 of 256 Old 04-26-2008, 12:11 AM
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Duh....Didn't you catch the big grinny smiley???

We know PASS THRU on Philco (& probably also Magnavox) is accessed via menu control.

We know Thomson DTT76850 tin-can tuner uses an ACTIVE SPLITTER, which would need to have power applied.
So look for a menu control. However, it's optional, so may or may not have been implemented in any given box.

Converter boxes marked "Transfer Switch Test" underwent some sort of RF Output/Input isolation test.
Hence we should check to see if it is (or is not) be an Analog Pass Thru switch....

We don't know much of anything else wrt Pass Thru....User Manuals are very poor....
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post #45 of 256 Old 04-26-2008, 02:02 AM
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Yes I did catch the big grinny smiley.

We also know PASS THRU on Philco (& probably also Magnavox) is also accessed via "SETUP" held down on remote control.

We know Thomson DTT76850 tin-can tuner uses an ACTIVE SPLITTER, which would need to have power applied.
Duh....I didn't know about the Active Splitter needing power applied

We don't know much of anything else wrt Pass Thru....User Manuals are very poor....I agree with this one

holl_ands thanks for the reply and mutual respect
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post #46 of 256 Old 04-26-2008, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

We know Thomson DTT76850 tin-can tuner uses an ACTIVE SPLITTER, which would need to have power applied. So look for a menu control. However, it's optional, so may or may not have been implemented in any given box.

According to the DTT7685X datasheet, the active splitter is implemented in the DTT76852 and DTT76854.
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post #47 of 256 Old 04-29-2008, 04:26 PM
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Satpro.

As far as I can tell you have tried the Magnovox, Tivax, Sansonic, and RCA
You may have reported others but I can't remember.

Have you tried a GE/Goodmind yet?
The Goodmind is cheap if ordered through Eagle World Industries.

Looking at your posts the Tivax appears to have more to offer than the Magnovox to me except for sensitivity.

Is the Tivax sensitivity really not as good as the Magnovox?

So far it looks like you like the Magnovox the best is this still true?
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post #48 of 256 Old 05-02-2008, 08:05 AM
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I am starting to lean towards getting one of these online.

I like the type of units that you can remove the subchannels by themselves. The magnavox dvd\\vcr I have as far as channels go it's all or nothing it will not let you pick and chose.

I figure the magnavox at walmart is the same as my unit-the manual reads the same as far as channel add/delete goes. I wish it would add delete like the DS DTX9900 and my db-2010 and my Pany ez27 Cause you can't beat the after coupon price...
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post #49 of 256 Old 05-02-2008, 12:38 PM
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I was going to purchase a Zenith DTA converter box, but with all the problems, I'm going to skip that box.

The question is then: Tivax STB-T9 with the Thompson tin-can tuner or the Philco TB150HH9 with it's funai tuner?

Which do you all who have used one or the other or both recommend?

For some reason, the Philco unnit at SolidSignal is $79+ and the Tivax is $49+
Is there a reason for that big difference in price?
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post #50 of 256 Old 05-02-2008, 05:32 PM
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Just received the Tivax box today. One thing I don't like about it already is the zoom functions. If tuned to a HD channel broadcasting upconverted 4:3 content the normal mode results in a picture with black all around (postage stamp effect). This is normal and I fully expect this and the box does give you the choice to zoom the picture to fill the screen. If the zoom mode is on for a HD channel, it is also on for standard def channels resulting in an overzoomed picture. The Tivax doesn't compensate the zoom function between HD & SD broadcast stations. Yes you can put the zoom mode back to normal for SD channels but it's an inconvenience to keep switching zoom modes between HD & SD channels every time you flip channels.
I also have the Channel Master CM-7000 and it can be set to fill a 4:3 screen without having to switch zoom modes between HD & SD channels. And yes I'm fully aware that HD channels (when sending HD content) will have the sides cutoff or cropped. My Mom likes to have her picture filling the screen.

Other than the zoom function it's an ok box.
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post #51 of 256 Old 05-02-2008, 06:28 PM
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[quote=satpro;13783338][quote=jimboy;13783098] Yes you can put the zoom mode back to normal for SD channels but it's an inconvenience to keep switching zoom modes between HD & SD channels every time you flip channels.
Quote:



I have noticed this too but since you can cycle through the aspect raios very easily with the remote it is a minor inconvience compared to boxes like the magnavox which make you step through the menu system to change anything.

My Mom won't accept "a minor inconvenience". She just wants it to work as simple as analog tv does. Any box that can fill a 4:3 screen properly without switching anything and doesn't have audio issues with some 5.1 surround channels will work fine for her. For me I agree the aspect switching is minor but it's something that could have been avoided with proper design. All in an effort to keep the cost down?
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post #52 of 256 Old 05-04-2008, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satpro View Post

Interested that the only station (39) this box can pull in on my small antenna is 1000 kw. All my comparisons were made between 6-8pm. None of my other boxes perform as poorly as the sansonic, heck my 7 year old dtc 100 has better sensitivity.

Best to worst in sensitivity on my small test antenna.
Funia (walmart)
Coship
Tivax
RCA
Sansonic

I also have various other digital tuners, dmr-ez17 panasonic, voom DSR 5500 OTA (moto), T451 samsung. None are as poor as sansonic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by satpro View Post

Tivax is more feature rich.
The small gain in tuner sensitivity is not enough to matter.

Satpro is the Tivax more feature rich than the Coship too?

You have also said that zenith/insignia are defective junk because of the audio problems.

According to the CECB list the CoShip also has a LG SoC so does it also have audio problems?
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post #53 of 256 Old 05-04-2008, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satpro View Post

Just shows what a failure the cecb approval process really is/was, since all the boxes have flaws, some more then others,

So you expect a less than $50-ish box to be PERFECT? The coupon program is doing exactly what it was designed to do: get boxes out at the lowest cost.

Do you suppose (or expect) all the lesss than $50 DVD players out there to be flawless as well?

Bob

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post #54 of 256 Old 05-04-2008, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satpro View Post

Whoever is/was responsible for the approval process is derelict in their duty to insure that these boxes are functional and free of major design flaws like audio problems.

Similar to FCC approval processes, the CECB program relies on self-certification, so the manufacturer is primarily responsible for testing the boxes and meeting requirements. NTIA approval is based on reviewing test results supplied by manufacturer, and additionally the NTIA reserves the right to perform its own verification. Thus it is not difficult for manufacturers to rush things and/or cut corners yet still obtain approval.

That said, the NTIA rules don't include requirements for audio fidelity (an unfortunate oversight as they do include video quality requirements), so it's frustrating to see zenith/insignia/lg producing an obviously flawed product, but it's not clear they've broken any rules.
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post #55 of 256 Old 05-04-2008, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satpro View Post

No I expect it to function as required by the ntia approval process.

I think that jll544 is correct here. The NTIA is a government entity. I wouldn't
expect them do any more than they have or have to. I'm surprised the program has worked as well as it has.

Do I think the boxes should work better? Yes, but as a beta site for PSIP and broadcast flag implementation I can tell you there are a lot of much more expensive receivers (and TV's) that don't work near as well as some of these coupon boxes. Way too many here, especially newbies who want to TYPE first, THINK second, and READ third..expect way too much of these boxes.

And yea, I don't like it when I get gear that doesn't work right. But I also know enough not to expect a $15 box to work as well as a $1000 product. Not that there's any expensive consumer (or broadcast) products that don't work right either...

Besides, All the retailers and mfg's I have spoken with tell me they are losing money on this program.
I have direct contact with the mfg on one of the boxes so I'm familiar with their side of the story.

Bob

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post #56 of 256 Old 05-05-2008, 11:54 AM
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[quote=jimboy;13783382][quote=satpro;13783338]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboy View Post

Yes you can put the zoom mode back to normal for SD channels but it's an inconvenience to keep switching zoom modes between HD & SD channels every time you flip channels.

My Mom won't accept "a minor inconvenience". She just wants it to work as simple as analog tv does. Any box that can fill a 4:3 screen properly without switching anything and doesn't have audio issues with some 5.1 surround channels will work fine for her. For me I agree the aspect switching is minor but it's something that could have been avoided with proper design. All in an effort to keep the cost down?

Even if the Tivax have separate zoom settings for HD and SD broadcast. Your mom still won't be happy because the Zoom function may work for one program but not the other. Not all programs are broadcasted in letter box. Your mom will have to use the zoom button eventually.
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post #57 of 256 Old 05-05-2008, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jll544 View Post

Similar to FCC approval processes, the CECB program relies on self-certification, so the manufacturer is primarily responsible for testing the boxes and meeting requirements. NTIA approval is based on reviewing test results supplied by manufacturer, and additionally the NTIA reserves the right to perform its own verification. Thus it is not difficult for manufacturers to rush things and/or cut corners yet still obtain approval.

That said, the NTIA rules don't include requirements for audio fidelity (an unfortunate oversight as they do include video quality requirements), so it's frustrating to see zenith/insignia/lg producing an obviously flawed product, but it's not clear they've broken any rules.

NTIA approval process
(1) Notice of Intent (NOI) submission
(a) A brief description of the converter box, including permitted as well as required features
The date on which the samples and test report for the proposed converter(s) may be ready for submission for review.
(b) Submitting the samples and test report will be electronically sent to the contact person listed in the NOI.

(2) Testing Guidance
(a) Recommended that the tests be performed with a High Definition data stream (i.e., resolution of 720p or higher) with motion.
(b) Field Ensembles (#14): NTIA encourages manufacturers to specify which 30 of the 50 field ensembles identified in ATSC A/74 were tested
successfully.
(c) Single Static Echo (#15): NTIA encourages manufacturers to specify whether the model was tested against Criteria A or Criteria B as defined in Technical Appendix 1. If Criteria B is chosen, manufacturers should identify which 37 of the 50 field ensembles were tested successfully.
(d) EPA Energy Star Program which is a permitted but not required specification for Coupon-Eligible Converter Boxes (CECBs) should seek certification from EPA that the CECB meets all requirements for certification under the EPA program.

(3) Test Report (format and content) guidance
(a) The test report is to be sent to Art Wall, Technical Advisor at NTIA encouraged to submit the test report in an electronic format using Microsoft Word, pdf or jpg type files.
(b) Test reports demonstrate that each model proposed to be a CECB meets all the performance specifications and features set forth in Technical Appendix 1 of the Final Rule as well as applicable FCC Rules.
(c) Each model proposed may include permitted'' features but shall not include disqualifying'' features.
(d) NTIA encourages applicants to include in the test report information such as:
1. An operational description of each proposed CECB.
2. A final copy of the proposed manual that will be provided to the end user.
3. A list of equipment (complete with calibration data) used by the manufacturer when performing each of the required tests.
4. A block diagram showing all the major elements of each proposed CECB.
5. A block diagram depicting the equipment used and the measurement setup for each test.
6. Internal and external photographs of each proposed CECB. The photographs should be of sufficient clarity to show the make and model number on the label, the front panel controls, connection points on the back panel, internal components and circuit board layouts.

(4) shipping of samples
Manufacturers are to supply two production sample converter boxes
shipped to the Bill Hurst; DTV Converter Coupon Program FCC Laboratory

(5) NTIA processing.
The manufacturer's report of each proposed CECB will be reviewed for
accuracy and completeness and to determine:
(1) If the proposed model meets the performance specifications in Technical Appendix 1
(2) If the proposed CECB includes permitted features listed in Technical Appendix 2, that those features function properly
(3) That the proposed CECB does not contain a disqualifying feature.

NTIA/ FCC testing will be performed on some or all of the models.
The level of testing will be based on engineering judgments during the review of the test report.


So I would say that for the most part you were correct jll544

But I don't think that those boxes with a FCC ID are any better.
The CoShip has a FCC ID but both satpro and bdfox18doe did not like it
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post #58 of 256 Old 05-06-2008, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malouff View Post

The CoShip has a FCC ID but both satpro and bdfox18doe did not like it

But No FCC Sticker on it IIRC.

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post #59 of 256 Old 05-08-2008, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satpro View Post


As to this whole self certification deal if this is true it proves what a bunch of bull the approval process is.


Self certification has been the norm for ages at the FCC, they don't test cell phones, for example, they take the test report, review it.. and certify if things look good.



John
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post #60 of 256 Old 05-10-2008, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satpro View Post

! I assume all bureaucracies with allegiance to special interest and not the public interest operate in the same way!

I assumed that was the way our government operates anyway..

Bob

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