CM-7000 (S-Video) VS Tivax STB-T1 (Component) - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 92 Old 05-09-2008, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OWENF View Post

Do any of the big box stores carry the cm-7000 or is it only available online ?
Thanks in advance
Owenf

It's not at the big box stores. I've only seen it on online sources.

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post #32 of 92 Old 05-09-2008, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OWENF View Post

Do any of the big box stores carry the cm-7000 or is it only available online ?

Are those the only choices for buying stuff out in "bucks county"?
In the big cities, there are also some smaller retail chains like Fry's Electronics that sell the CM-7000.

Regards
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post #33 of 92 Old 05-09-2008, 11:21 PM
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Fry's isn't participating in the coupons program though, remember.
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post #34 of 92 Old 05-10-2008, 04:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I recently found the following thread.

New & Improved! The Official AVS HDTV STB Synopsis - Winter 2008!

Over The Air DTV/HDTV/Cable Clear QAM

Available Now: (and < $220)
  • Samsung DTB-H260F $179 ATSC, Clear QAM
  • Tivax LX1000 $90 ATSC
  • PrimeDTV PHD-205 $149 ATSC, Clear QAM, NTSC
  • Pro-Brand / Digital Stream HD3150 $199
  • Winegard RC-1010 $190 ATSC
  • Digital Stream HD 5150 $219 ATSC
  • Coby DTV-140 $139 ATSC (Clear QAM?)
  1. Are any of these other external tuners a popular choice (like the Samsung & Tivax we've been discussing) among AVS forum members?
  2. Which of these tuners have the same generation tuner chip-set as the Samsung?
  3. Channel Master does not offer external tuners, only a CECB - the CM-7000. Channel Master's most similar competitor is Winegard - another antenna manufacturer. Has anyone had any experience with the Winegard RC-1010?

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post #35 of 92 Old 05-10-2008, 06:24 AM
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How does the Zinwell ZAT-500HD compare to the Tivax LX1000?
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post #36 of 92 Old 05-10-2008, 06:43 AM
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Never heard of the Zinwell, and I couldn't find any reviews on the LX1000. My LX should be coming next week. I'll post my findings here on AVS.
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post #37 of 92 Old 05-12-2008, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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The CM-7000 does have S-video out. However, it doesn't have analog pass-through and becaust it is a CECB, it doesn't have Digital audio out.

The Samsung 260 has analog pass-through, Digital audio out, S-video & component out. However, it doesn't display menus & CC on S-video out.

Is there a non-CECB like the Samsung 260 that does display menus & CC on S-video out?

Thanks!

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post #38 of 92 Old 05-12-2008, 04:03 PM
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I can verify the Tivax STB-T1 displays menus via composite/s-video or component video. It requires a mode switch to change between component and composite/s-video. I don't have an answer about CC. I know the unit does CC and has a zillion different customizations but I don't know how to make it work. All I know is pushing the mute button when hooked up in component mode produces no captions.
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post #39 of 92 Old 05-12-2008, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Bouldrey View Post

I can verify the Tivax STB-T1 displays menus via composite/s-video or component video. It requires a mode switch to change between component and composite/s-video. I don't have an answer about CC. I know the unit does CC and has a zillion different customizations but I don't know how to make it work. All I know is pushing the mute button when hooked up in component mode produces no captions.

Don,
Thanks for the info. Hopefully, Tivax can solve the heat issue you've reported as the STB-T1 is cost-effective. In your Tivax STB-T1 thread, if I recall correctly, you stated that it doesn't have analog pass-through?

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post #40 of 92 Old 05-12-2008, 05:46 PM
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I don't think it has an analog pass through but I didn't really check it out closely. I just hid rabbit ears behind the tv to pull in the only station not broadcasting in digital. This way all I have to do to watch it is switch the tv from component to the tv tuner and there it is.

MAJOR CORRECTION: Yes, it does have analog pass through but you have to split your antenna or use an aux antenna.
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post #41 of 92 Old 05-12-2008, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Bouldrey View Post

I don't think it has an analog pass through but I didn't really check it out closely. I just hid rabbit ears behind the tv to pull in the only station not broadcasting in digital. This way all I have to do to watch it is switch the tv from component to the tv tuner and there it is.

MAJOR CORRECTION: Yes, it does have analog pass through but you have to split your antenna or use an aux antenna.

Don,
If a tuner or CECB has analog pass-through an external splitter is not needed to send the antenna signal to your TV's analog tuner. The advantage of an analog pass-through is that you prevent the signal loss that comes with inserting a splitter in your antenna cable.

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post #42 of 92 Old 05-12-2008, 08:16 PM
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Per the manual, the ATSC antenna must be connected to ATSC In. This is a completely different port from RF Antenna In. When the Tivax is turned off, this alternate signal from RF In (which is actually for a cable box) passes straight through RF Out to the TV. When the Tivax is turned on, the signal is interrupted in favor of DTV signal entering through ATSC In.

I'll check it out and see if signal from ATSC antenna will pass through.
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post #43 of 92 Old 05-12-2008, 08:43 PM
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Nope. There's no connection from ATSC In to RF Out so you have to split or use an aux.

In compensation, when the Tivax is turned off, ATSC In is switched out of the circuit so maybe there wouldn't be any signal loss because, in effect, there's no split. I dunno.

In fact, I'm thinking the Tivax won't even send ATSC by way of coax to a TV. It didn't work when I tried it so maybe the only routes available are the component cables or the composite/s-video. Oh jeez, something else to test.

Edit: I checked and yes, it will ship ATSC through coax but for some reason, my TV insists on acting as a monitor and never mind the 3/4 RF switch on the Tivax. I have to set my TV to Video1 to get a signal through the RF coax.
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post #44 of 92 Old 05-13-2008, 08:54 AM
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Don, I'm a little confused on the pass thru thing. I only have one antenna, a UHF/VHF antenna. If I hook this cable to the ATSC IN on the Tivax and then run a RF cable from the Tivax RF OUT to say a digital tuner DVDR will I be able to use the tuner on the DVDR, or will the RF OUT of the Tivax only output modulated channel 3 or 4? That is NO native passthru of the input signal.
I really can't figure out why the Tivax has the RF antenna in All they would have needed would have been a RF IN and RF out, with a option to disable the RF modulator(for RF passthru). I don't know why the converter box companies insist on making it so complicated. VCR's had this feature for 25 years and many sold for less that $50.
Maybe I'll understand it more when I get my LX1000. I'm hoping this week.

Wait, did you say one port was labeled ASTC IN and the other was RF in? I thought your box was supposed to get QAM cable? Can you verify if your box indeed gets QAM and what port you would need to hook that to. Maybe Cable goes to RF in and your antenna would go to ATSC in. That would make sense and be a handy feature for people with both cable and OTA. If this is the case when the box is off what signal if any is sent to the RF out of the Tivax?
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post #45 of 92 Old 05-13-2008, 11:37 AM
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I think your machine may be a completely different animal if it doesn't have QAM.

I don't know how to verify anything about QAM on mine. I have a Tuning Band menu item that offers choices of Air, Cable, Cable HRC, Cable IRC and Cable Auto. Since I need a 25-mile piece of coax to tie into CATV, there's nothing I can tell you about any of it except it works when set to air and does nothing when set otherwise. I haven't had cable TV available to me since 1983 so the the only thing I know for certain about QAM is it's useless to me. I don't know what it's for or how it does whatever it is supposed to do.

The manual says RF In is for connecting a cable box or VCR. When the Tivax is turned off, the alternate signal automatically passes through to the TV. When the Tivax is turned on, the signal is interrupted in favor of the local DTV channels. I think the reason for this is to accommodate people who have truly ancient TV's with only coax in and no A/V equipment although I don't know why someone like that would buy something like this.

But then again, maybe that won't work either. Although I was somehow able to get ATSC through the coax to the TV last night, I can't seem to make that happen again today. I guess I just dialed in the right combination last night.

I can tell you if I connect my antenna coax into ATSC In, no analog signal passes though RF Out, no matter what. If I hook my antenna to RF In, signal passes through RF Out when the Tivax is turned off. Therefore, if the signal is split or the coax physically moved from ATSC In to RF In, it does have analog pass through and it will feed though the component cables.
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post #46 of 92 Old 05-13-2008, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Bouldrey View Post

The manual says .....

But then again, maybe that won't work either. Although I was somehow able to get ATSC through the coax to the TV last night, I can't seem to make that happen again today. I guess I just dialed in the right combination last night.

I can tell you if I connect my antenna coax into ATSC In, no analog signal passes though RF Out, no matter what. If I hook my antenna to RF In, signal passes through RF Out when the Tivax is turned off. Therefore, if the signal is split or the coax physically moved from ATSC In to RF In, it does have analog pass through and it will feed though the component cables.

What is your assessment of the owner's manual? Is it user-friendly for English-speaking people?

Sounds like a unique arrangement as it forces you to use a splitter (one cable to ATSC & one to RF in) to have analog pass-through. So it does provide analog pass-through, but only if a splitter is used.

The advantage of the more typical analog pass-through function (only one RF input) is that you prevent the signal loss that may occur due to inserting a splitter in your antenna cable.

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post #47 of 92 Old 05-13-2008, 01:40 PM
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The manual is okay. It's nicely done and written in English, not Chinglish. It's all English with no sections dedicated to other languages. It would suit me better if there was a lot more "meat" in it but it's vastly superior to the manual provided for the CM-7000. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a downloadable version of the Tivax manual in existence.

Question for you. Would a splitter still degrade the signal if one route or the other was an electronic dead end? It not an issue for me since the upper half of the tower of the only non-digital station is plainly visible across my back field at night. I can plug a paper clip into a TV and watch that one.
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post #48 of 92 Old 05-13-2008, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Anytime you cut, extend, combine, split, distribute, etc, there will be a signal loss. To maintain signal strength, you ideally want one continuous length of cable (as short as possible) from the antenna to the TV tuner. This is why they make distribution amplifiers to compensate for the loss when one antenna feeds four sets for example.

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post #49 of 92 Old 05-13-2008, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Now back to the topic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ota.dt.man View Post

The CM-7000 does have S-video out. However, it doesn't have analog pass-through and becaust it is a CECB, it doesn't have Digital audio out.

The Samsung 260 has analog pass-through, Digital audio out, S-video & component out. However, it doesn't display menus & CC on S-video out.

Is there a non-CECB like the Samsung 260 that does display menus & CC on S-video out?

Thanks!


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post #50 of 92 Old 05-14-2008, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ota.dt.man View Post

The Samsung 260 has analog pass-through, Digital audio out, S-video & component out. However, it doesn't display menus & CC on S-video out. Is there a non-CECB like the Samsung 260 that does display menus & CC on S-video out?

The PrimeDTV PHD-205 HD receiver has OSD on S-video. No pass-through, but it tunes NTSC analog, in addition to ATSC/QAM digital. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...638769&page=10
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post #51 of 92 Old 05-14-2008, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jll544 View Post

The PrimeDTV PHD-205 HD receiver has OSD on S-video. No pass-through, but it tunes NTSC analog, in addition to ATSC/QAM digital. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...638769&page=10

Hi jll544,
Thanks for the suggestion! I followed your link to the review by jmscott42 and subsequent posts:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmscott42 View Post

The PHD205 isn't going to win any design awards-- definitely feels like a generic product (Which it is) -- plain outer box, plain design, very generic look and feel. If you have or have seen a generic Chinese $25 DVD player at Walmart, you sorta know what you're going to get. Which isn't bad but it does lack some of the polish of the Samsung box.

But it's what inside that counts, and it definitely feels like a 1/2 step up from the Samsung overall. The picture quality is pretty good-- for some reason I feel like the Samsung is ever-so-slightly better. The PHD-205 feels a little darker/murkier. (not tremendously so but a bit) The Samsung felt like images really popped off the screen and this doesn't quite have that feel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmscott42 View Post

Basically, I sort of feel like if you have the Samsung and it fulfills your needs, don't bother with the PHD-205 -- it's more of a competitive/clone model than providing anything new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmscott42 View Post

I'm having pretty good luck with mine overall. The only thing I am noticing is occasionally the video gets a strange super-over-sharp look to it. I can't quite describe it, but I notice it mostly on faces where the gradients of the color of people's cheeks or foreheads looks like someone used "sharpen more" on Photoshop about 10 times.

I need to figure out if I can get a screen capture to better explain it. It seems to happen more on certain channels, but putting the unit into standby and back on seems to clear it up.

Overall, no real complaints other than the remote really should've been better. Haven't had it freeze except on low signal situations (using OTA). Haven't tried hooking it up to cable to see what, if any, unencrypted channels I receive.

It's not perfect, has some rough edges, but yeah, I don't think you'll find anything better under $200.

Have you seen anything about the Winegard RC1010? This link is all I've found so far.

Thanks again!

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post #52 of 92 Old 05-14-2008, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ota.dt.man View Post

Have you seen anything about the Winegard RC1010?

Apparently the Winegard RC1010 is a rebranded Zinwell ZAT-600HD (aka Fuchicomm/Fuchiteck ZAT-600 HD). Reviews of the ZAT-600 on the web seem mixed.
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post #53 of 92 Old 05-15-2008, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jll544 View Post

Apparently the Winegard RC1010 is a rebranded Zinwell ZAT-600HD (aka Fuchicomm/Fuchiteck ZAT-600 HD). Reviews of the ZAT-600 on the web seem mixed.

Agreed.

Do you have any other suggestions for a non-CECB like the Samsung DTB-H260F that is able to display menus & CC on S-video out?

I guess the CM-7000 (S-video out) with the missing digital audio output components installed may be my "plan B" for our TV that doesn't have component inputs. Has anyone determined the specs of the missing components?

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post #54 of 92 Old 05-15-2008, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ota.dt.man View Post

Do you have any other suggestions for a non-CECB like the Samsung DTB-H260F that is able to display menus & CC on S-video out?

Not at the moment, though I'm looking forward to jjeff's opinion of the LX1000 after he receives it.
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post #55 of 92 Old 05-15-2008, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to all for the following excellent advice:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whidbey View Post

... by using the component outs, the Samsung will have an edge in PQ, even with your SDTV. I own a Samsung 260, and for watching 16:9 programs, I prefer it over my CECB (an Insignia). My TV (a Sony SD 27" WEGA) is similar to yours in terms of inputs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Bouldrey View Post

Yes, you will see better quality using component video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I had the Sammy 260 for a while and did notice better PQ via it's S-out vs. a CECB, but had second thoughts on it's $170 price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Bouldrey View Post

Generally speaking, I think you get a better picture using component over s-video. Even though both bypass the comb filter, I think the second chrominance signal makes a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n4yqt View Post

Since you have component inputs, I would get the Samsung H260F. You can find it for a lot less on ebay around the $60.00 range and possibly an open box item at Best Buy for $99 or less, like I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whidbey View Post

My DVD player has all three (S-video, Component and Composite) and with it I've found that the Component looks best, and the composite and S-video are about the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kousikb View Post

Also as n4yqt mentioned, if you can get the Samsung DTB260F for < $99, it's a better option, because it also has HDMI (I think) and QAM tuner too and I guess has a scheduler too.

After reading these overwhelming recommendations I purchased an open box "Sammy 260" very inexpensively. Using the component inputs and setting the resolution selector to 480i, we found the PQ to be significantly better compared to the same stations using the Toshiba's internal NTSC tuner. Truly excellent! Many thanks to everyone!!!

I only wish we could buy another Sammy 260 for our other TV that has S-video but unfortunately not component inputs.

According to a TV Fool analysis, the current predicted receiver signal strength for our area is about -75 dBm for analog reception and -92 dBm for digital reception. Consequently, with our Channel Master Quantum 1162A in the attic 19' above the ground, there isn't always enough signal strength to maintain a lock on the digital signal.

After discussing our situation with Ron at Channel Master tech support - very helpful , I ordered a CM-0100DSB - a preamp that was specifically designed for CM Quantum antennas. Hopefully, this will give us the ability to consistently maintain a digital signal lock. If not, we can always roof-mount the the 1162A / 0100DSB. I'm really looking forward to adding the preamp so that we can fully appreciate the Samsung DTB-H260F.

Now if I can find non-CECB as good as the Samsung DTB-H260F that is able to display menus & CC on S-video out for our other TV ...

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post #56 of 92 Old 05-15-2008, 07:01 PM
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I'll keep you apprised on the state of the $85 STB-T1. I don't know if I have a dud or if they're all heaters. It's only drawing 12 watts under load (spec of 15w) but heat is definitely the cause of the rebooting problem. I've cured it for now by elevating the unit another half-inch with two strips of granite tile under the feet and displaying a couple of flat-bottom pyramidal shaped specimens of a metallic mineral called galena on the top cover. These act as exterior heat sinks. It's been burning since Sunday morning without a reboot. Other than the heat and some bad-weather issues with my hillbilly-hanging-in-a-tree antenna system, I'm eXtremely happy with this thing. I can confirm it does menus and CC via s-video. Get one and lets see if yours is a heater

Otherwise, jjeff should be popping in with his review of the $99 LX1000 any day now. One of these should suit you nicely.
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post #57 of 92 Old 05-15-2008, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Bouldrey View Post

I'll keep you apprised on the state of the $85 STB-T1.

Thanks Don - sounds like a plan. Will Tivax swap out you "heater" for a "cooler"?

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post #58 of 92 Old 05-15-2008, 07:21 PM
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Yes but I definitely ain't giving this one up until after the Indy 500.
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post #59 of 92 Old 05-16-2008, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Bouldrey View Post

Otherwise, jjeff should be popping in with his review of the $99 LX1000 any day now.

jjeff,

What's the latest with the Tivax LX1000 you ordered?

Thanks

Broadcast TV - a vital national public resource

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post #60 of 92 Old 05-16-2008, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ota.dt.man View Post

jjeff,

What's the latest with the Tivax LX1000 you ordered?

Thanks

I was just thinking of PM'ing him and asking the same thing.
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