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post #181 of 368 Old 01-11-2009, 02:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

But they ARE NOT broke - there's just not going to be any signals for them to receive anymore.

Those signals being the 20+ channels I've watched for the past several decades. And whose fault is it that my TV suddenly went from 20 downto 0 channels, overnight (between 2/17 and 2/18)?
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post #182 of 368 Old 01-12-2009, 02:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artakha View Post

I agree 100%. If the government renders something I already paid money for obsolete because of some stupid and pointless scheme of theirs, they should be the ones paying to make it useful again.

Apparently I was wrong, there are a frightfully large number of people that do think like this.
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post #183 of 368 Old 01-12-2009, 10:36 AM
 
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I suppose if my car got rear-ended by an FCC government official, he'd argue that it's not the government's responsibility to repair the bumper because "the car still works".
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post #184 of 368 Old 01-12-2009, 11:55 AM
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While Congress is messing with this, one thing that would help is first class postage.
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post #185 of 368 Old 01-12-2009, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post

I suppose if my car got rear-ended by an FCC government official, he'd argue that it's not the government's responsibility to repair the bumper because "the car still works".

That is some crazy logic you got there. In that case, they are causing physical damage.
That isn't really apples to apples, now is it?

Anyway, since this whole program is run by the government, did you honestly expect them to do something correctly?

They should have made the converter boxes come with antennas included.
They should also NOT have those silly restrictions on the boxes in the first place, and allow the consumer to pick what they want, either a converter box, or a HDTV card /device for the computer .

Heck, they should have just issued most of the $$$ back from the sale of the spectrum, instead of them thinking up idiotic rules, so the people only get back a small portion from that sale.

And we are getting WAY off topic in this thread...
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post #186 of 368 Old 01-12-2009, 12:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Elixer View Post

That is some crazy logic you got there. In that case, they are causing physical damage.
That isn't really apples to apples, now is it?

Without signals that my analog TV can receive, I consider that damage to my 5 CRTs, 2 VCRs, and 1 DVR.
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post #187 of 368 Old 01-13-2009, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post

Without signals that my analog TV can receive, I consider that damage to my 5 CRTs, 2 VCRs, and 1 DVR.

Let me guess - you also have an analog cell phone you'd like the gov't to pay to replace?

The gov't never promissed to have NTSC forever - they have no obligation to do so.
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post #188 of 368 Old 01-13-2009, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post

No because the government did not ban leaded gasoline. You're still allowed to use it if your car requires its use.

And yes the government DID break my TV. All five of them. Plus my VCR and DVR. On February 17 they all worked; and on February 18 they stopped working, and it's the government's fault.

Therefore I consider it the govenrment's responsibility to fix them.

And following up on your logic, because you have been using the bandwidth owned by the government, you - electrictroy- now owe the government for your past usage of television broadcast. What do you think is a fair price for you to pay for your usage of bandwidth?
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post #189 of 368 Old 01-13-2009, 11:01 PM
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(I've stopped receiving email notifications on ALL of my subscribed threads, maybe posting in them will help).

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #190 of 368 Old 01-14-2009, 04:18 AM
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I'm almost scared to ask,
but I went pack a few pages and didn't find anything relevent to the actual coupon status...
More money?
No more money?
They're thinking?

Thanks

James Clerk Maxwell spins in his grave,
not along his long axis,
but head over heel
We The People
Doppler Effect: Effect of stupid ideas appearing smarter when they come at you rapidly!
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post #191 of 368 Old 01-14-2009, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThePeople View Post

I'm almost scared to ask,
but I went pack a few pages and didn't find anything relevent to the actual coupon status...
More money?
No more money?
They're thinking?

Thanks

https://www.dtv2009.gov/WaitingList.aspx

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #192 of 368 Old 01-14-2009, 03:52 PM
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One could argue that federal government, in converting to this digital system and rendering all analog VCRs essentially useless, was violating or retricting fair use of programming aired on public airwaves as put forth in the Betamax rulings back in the early 80s. The converter box coupon program serves as a remedy to that, but it is far from a real solution. The VCR was obviously a second thought, if at all in this program, and I think it has a lot to do with why the coupons have already run out (to bring this back to the main topic )
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post #193 of 368 Old 01-14-2009, 05:38 PM
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Clint S.,
Thanks for posting that link.
Others should read their opinion of what they think "Handling it" is...
(Buy couponless, buy new TV, buy sat/cable lol)

I had already read that page while checking my reference number.
https://www.dtv2009.gov/CheckStatus.aspx
But it doesn't have the current stats on unused (Expired's) verses unfulfilled applications and so forth so that a person can guess how long to expect to wait.

I thought this was the thread people were posting stats in.

CECB VCR's thats never going to happen...
(And I know you didn't mean that, my mind wandered that way...)

But you make a good point about fair use.
it isn't just fair access, it is now a matter of all access. The very safety of people has been grossly overlooked.

have a battery TV?, a AM/FM/TV audio-only emergency unit?
Throw 'em out as they are useless...

I maintain that ALL CECB's should have been mandated to ALSO be battery-able!
Wouldn't have been hard, most use wall-warts anyway. But it would have insured "Negative Ground" 12-VDC inputs on all so a cigarette lighter adapter or battery could be used with existing safety equipment.

I also maintain that part of the whole digital conversion was a mandate to replace all analog safety equipment on the shelfs with digital updates. Especially battery equipment. Seen eBay? Flooded with analog units being dumped cheap.

But instead the only equipmant they mandated digital upgrades in were only the Oh-My-Jesus sized viewer only units (TV's)! No safety units, no battery equipment, no AM/FM/TV audio safety units, and certainly no EBS cubes!

Wait until the first catastrophe (After the transition date) when an entire city or more (Without power) CANNOT hear what emergency broadcasts are sent and what public safety officials advise.

Had IKE hit here in Houston after that date, the entire month here without electricity would have been like the end of the world. (I own battery banks and inverters...)
AM/FM was only non-stop idots that were of no help!

If it helps anyone looking for delays. I applied and was told no more funds (Until unsused funds were recycled). It is a about two weeks later and I now am told I am slated for the next mailing cycle (01-23-09).
Hope that helps at least.

Code:
Application date                     Mail date
December 13 - 19, 2008               1/2/2009 
December 20 - 26, 2008               1/9/2009 
December 27, 2008 - January 2, 2009  1/16/2009 
January 3 - 9, 2009                  1/23/2009 
January 10 - 16, 2009                1/30/2009
Note that coupons do not expire until 90 days after they have been mailed.
Note also that coupons are being mailed via Standard mail (NOT FIRST-CLASS MAIL), with delivery expected approximately 10 days from the date mailed.

Sorry to save dates as code, but all other attempts failed. The forum engine strips all spaces >1 from all entries screwing up the table. Oddly, even the "Table" tool in advanced does this...DUMB.

Additionally, if you have new firewall software and when you attempt to edit.
All goes well until you try to save your changes and it just seems to go into limbo.
It is because for some ungodly reason this forum's engine requires ICMP !!!
Create an exception in your firewall for this site. Hope this helps too.

James Clerk Maxwell spins in his grave,
not along his long axis,
but head over heel
We The People
Doppler Effect: Effect of stupid ideas appearing smarter when they come at you rapidly!
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post #194 of 368 Old 01-15-2009, 08:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

The gov't never promissed to have NTSC forever - they have no obligation to do so.

Maybe it's time for another revolution then, to remind the government WHO is their boss (the People). Making my ~$2000 worth of television, vcrs, and dvrs suddenly stop working (times 50 million people in similar situations), sounds like a good reason to start "laying off" our employees within the U.S. Congress. Their job is to serve the people, not to make ~100 billion dollars worth of TVs, VCRs, et cetera instant junk overnight. They caused that huge loss; they are obligated to provide assistance to fix the junk & make it work again.

Which no doubt is why the Congresscritters decided to have coupons for converter boxes - to save their jobs, and to stop the millions of angry calls from the People. And I agree with the Congressman who proposed a similar coupon program for those who need to upgrade to rooftop antennas. A DTV box is pretty worthless when all you have is set-top rabbit ears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebody View Post

the bandwidth owned by the government

The air is owned by the People, collectively, not the government. Review the relevant U.S. Supreme Court cases which affirm that the Congress/FCC merely arbitrates the airwaves on behalf of the true owners - the People.
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post #195 of 368 Old 01-15-2009, 08:55 AM
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WeThePeople, you are likely looking for the Weekly Redemptions Report. They haven't updated since Jan 7th, though. Oops, they just did this morning. Here's the link:

https://www.ntiadtv.gov/docs/WeeklyR...ionsReport.pdf
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post #196 of 368 Old 01-15-2009, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post

Maybe it's time for another revolution then, to remind the government WHO is their boss (the People). Making my ~$2000 worth of television, vcrs, and dvrs suddenly stop working (times 50 million people in similar situations), sounds like a good reason to start "laying off" our employees within the U.S. Congress. Their job is to serve the people, not to make ~100 billion dollars worth of TVs, VCRs, et cetera instant junk overnight. They caused that huge loss; they are obligated to provide assistance to fix the junk & make it work again.

Wouldn't matter. The corporations will just give you more puppet candidates to choose from.
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post #197 of 368 Old 01-15-2009, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post

Without signals that my analog TV can receive, I consider that damage to my 5 CRTs, 2 VCRs, and 1 DVR.

Did you actually try coupon boxes with your "rabbit ear" antenna? Part of your complaint is that you need a new rooftop antenna in order to get anything.

In my case, the only digital stations I can't get are so bad on analog they are unwatchable, with NO change in the antenna. Granted, that's not always the case, but I have to wonder seriously how many people really need a new antenna?

Some of the boxes are only $40 if purchased online, so one is only out the shipping costs, in many instances. Of course, if you have two or three TVs, two or three VCRs, and a couple of DVD recorders, well, I guess the government is not supporting that scenario well.

- Rich
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post #198 of 368 Old 01-15-2009, 05:21 PM
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As of
1/6/09
43,052,609 coupons mailed
13,394,773 coupons expired
47,412,320 coupons requested
948,657 coupons on wait list

As of
1/13/09
44,602,601 coupons mailed
13,723,563 coupons expired
48,740,641 coupons requested
2,146,455 coupons on wait list

Last week
1,549,992 coupons mailed
328,790 coupons expired

Did they really mail more coupons than the number of expired coupons?
They should of only mailed the number of expired coupons.

1,328,321 coupons requested
1,197,798 coupons on wait list increased

It should be 1,328,321 coupons requested/approved
plus 948,657 coupons on wait list last week
minus 328,790 coupons mailed
equals 1,948,188 coupons on wait list this week
but the current 2,146,455 coupons on wait list is 198,267 higher than that.
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post #199 of 368 Old 01-15-2009, 05:57 PM
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Or 1,328,321 coupons requested this week
minus 1,197,798 coupons on wait list increased
equals 130,523 coupons mailed this week
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post #200 of 368 Old 01-15-2009, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff2631 View Post

As of

Did they really mail more coupons than the number of expired coupons?
They should of only mailed the number of expired coupons.

But remember, they didn't run out of coupons until Jan 4. What they are distributing now is from December approvals, before they ran out. They will be into the mailing week ending 1/23 before they get to the wait list. By then they should have another million unused coupons in the pool. It's a bit hard to judge what they've counted already based on their Wednesday reports; the data are not as of the same date. One shows request activity as of the day before (Tuesday), the other shows expirations as of the week before (Friday).

Approval date Target Mail Date
December 20 - 26, 2008 1/9/2009
December 27, 2008 - January 2, 2009 1/16/2009
January 3 - 9, 2009 1/23/2009
January 10 - 16, 2009 1/30/2009
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post #201 of 368 Old 01-16-2009, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito View Post

One could argue that federal government, in converting to this digital system and rendering all analog VCRs essentially useless, was violating or retricting fair use of programming aired on public airwaves as put forth in the Betamax rulings back in the early 80s. The converter box coupon program serves as a remedy to that, but it is far from a real solution. The VCR was obviously a second thought, if at all in this program, and I think it has a lot to do with why the coupons have already run out (to bring this back to the main topic )

Ho boy, don't get me started. It's not just VCR's that were ignored. What about the majority of households that have battery powered portable TV's!! Those are also useless, in fact totally useless, where at least our VCR's will continue to work with cable (for now at least). These people are INSANE. So much for our hand-held portable TV's we could take along with us everywhere we went!

Now, what in the hell are all the millions living in hurricane areas that lose power for weeks supposed to do about TV??????? During Katrina, we lost power for more than a week, and we'd have been dead without our portable TV's! Now thanks to this asinine terribly ill-conceived change, this could cost lives!! Then not to mention the tens of millions of these portable TV's that a-holes are going to just throw in the trash for even more toxic landfills and water supply! And our idiot trash collection here is stupid enough to just pick 'em up and throw them in the landfill!

If the Gov't had any sense (which we all know they never have nor ever will), they would have mandated the converter boxes have the option to be battery powered as well as AC powered! DUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHH.

When hurricane Gustav came directly through this city several months back, we were again without power for TWO WEEKS in this area, (6-8 weeks in other areas!!) But learning from Katrina, I got a whole house generator! I guess they expect for everyone to be able to pay a small fortune for one these so they'll still be able to get TV during a disaster! I really feel for all those millions without generators during a disaster even more now. I'll never forget what OEP DHS offices said during Gustav when being interviewed here about the DTV change and future disasters; they were talking about things to do to be prepared. A reporter asked "Ok......so what about all our battery powered TV's during a disaster", and they just sat there........."uhhhh, we don't know what to say about that".

This is a massive Pandora's Box the Gov't has opened and it's really going to bite them in the ass HARD during the first disaster after Feb. 17th. Who's the "geniuses" that came up with this "brilliant idea" without thinking about the negative repercussions, and without preparing for it?? The one fact alone that funding has now been axed for the CEB program proves once again their TOTAL LACK OF thinking ahead and total lack of foresight!

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #202 of 368 Old 01-16-2009, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThePeople View Post

Clint S.,
Thanks for posting that link.
Others should read their opinion of what they think "Handling it" is...
(Buy couponless, buy new TV, buy sat/cable lol)

Yeah, typical ridiculous Gov't statement.

Quote:


But you make a good point about fair use.
it isn't just fair access, it is now a matter of all access. The very safety of people has been grossly overlooked.
have a battery TV?, a AM/FM/TV audio-only emergency unit? Throw 'em out as they are useless...
I maintain that ALL CECB's should have been mandated to ALSO be battery-able!
Wouldn't have been hard, most use wall-warts anyway. But it would have insured "Negative Ground" 12-VDC inputs on all so a cigarette lighter adapter or battery could be used with existing safety equipment.

HA, that's what I just mentioned in my post above and I hadn't even seen your post yet.

Quote:


Wait until the first catastrophe (After the transition date) when an entire city or more (Without power) CANNOT hear what emergency broadcasts are sent and what public safety officials advise.

Yeah, and I forgot to mention, if anyone is thinking about RADIO, there was no radio after Katrina! New Orleans was wiped out! The only source of connection with the outside world was TV! Even here in BR we only had ONE radio station working off and on! So radio is NOT an option.

Quote:


Had IKE hit here in Houston after that date, the entire month here without electricity would have been like the end of the world. (I own battery banks and inverters...)
AM/FM was only non-stop idots that were of no help!

There's also something much more important at stake here. It WAS "the end of world" for us in southern LA! Just being able to SEE another human's face on a TV can SAVE YOUR LIFE. Think about this: One of the largest cities in the US is wiped out. Several million people of the entire southern region of LA flees, and about a million of those coming to Baton Rouge. We had no power in BR. No police, no emergency responders, no fire dept, NOTHING, because they were all either in N.O, or permanently out on emergency calls. All roads were closed. All airports were closed. Hospitals spilled over into the streets. We are not only totally isolated from the outside world, but have to take our own lives in our own hands for our very survival: If you dared venture out to a store to FIND FOOD (dodging road closure signs), the stores were quickly closed. Their shelves have all been sold out or pillaged by looters, and with no cops to stop them, it was open season on food not only in stores but stealing from homes. You risked being carjacked and killed. Oh yeah, there was also NO WATER. Those that had strokes or heart attacks, DIED. No ambulances.

You can't leave your homes because the roads are closed, and the criminals from N.O were roaming the streets carjacking cars. If you dared to leave your home, you couldn't go anywhere anyway because there was no gas! No end in sight and no help in sight. It was total chaos and anarchy. This hell went on for more than a week. We were running out of food & water, our cars had no gas (I ventured out trying to find food and gas, and had to come home on "Empty"). Thugs are taking over the streets. Escape is NOT an option, you cannot escape the chaos. You are stuck and doomed to die here.

I watched people get mugged waiting in the gas lines, only too see the pumps go dry. I watched people getting mugged in the stores, only to see the shelves emptied before I could get anything. Being without sleep for days, 100° outside and 85°+ in our home, insanity starts to set in and you're at the point of breaking and losing your mind.

I gathered all my firearms and waited.......

I passed out from exhaustion, woke up, took the last bit of gas from a gas can, and went the next city over trying once again to find a motel or hotel that had some vacancy. Of course none did, none anywhere in the south USA had vacancy. I saw families breaking down and crying in the parking lots of these hotels, without food or water for days, that had lost everything. All of this I have been experiencing, I have seen, it was all scenes from a post apocalyptic horror/sci-fi movie that we're all actually living.

I walked into one of the motel lobbies to escape the blistering heat, and what did I see? A TELEVISION!!!!! A TELEVISION!!! PEOPLE!!! Yipeee! People that KNEW ABOUT US!! A familiar face on CNN! FOX! MSNBC! They KNEW about us and were at least trying to help! Thousands of cops on the way, thousands of military troops, doctors, FOOD and WATER!! They could not get to us because of the road problems and traffic. I can't tell you how "normal" that made me feel. Seeing those familiar news faces talking about us on international TV. Help is coming, you're not forgotten, just hang in there a bit longer. I went from total despair, TO HOPE. Just because of a TV. A TV in these dire situations CAN SAVE YOUR LIFE.

Now in this particular case, a battery powered TV wouldn't help if the TV stations are down. But the point is still the same as to the both physical and mental value of a TV in a crisis.

Seeing and knowing that positive things are happening, knowing that you're not alone and help is on the way, can change a person from total despair, a total breakdown with thoughts of dying, to a new day of hope.

TV has been a part of our lives for what, 60-70 years. It's an integral part of our society. We live with it, and have come to depend on it. We all take it for granted, until it's GONE.

Now not IF but WHEN the next disaster strikes, how many will lose it and commit suicide because of no outside contact and believing it will never come? How many will lose it and kill their family to save them from a horrible drawn-out tortuous death? (Yes, that DID happen after Katrina at homes AND hospitals). How many will lose it, and think the only way to survive is rob your neighbors? Only to find out LATER, that help was only HOURS away, IF they would have been able to SEE A TV!!!!!

Mark my words, and my experiences, this FCC change will COST LIVES. All because the freakin' microcephalic Gov't is too freakin' short-sighted.

BTW, what I learned from all that to always keep on hand: water, water filters, water purification tablets, gasoline, MRE's, rechargeable batteries w/solar powered chargers that can charge various devices, solar powered radios and solar powered TV's (of course useless after Feb. 17th!), power inverters that work in a car, FULL first-aid kits with the works, never run low on medication, and, weapons, and a Bible.

The best of course is a natural gas powered whole house generator. Comes on automatically after a power outage. That may eliminate some of the other things needed, but the generator could possibly stop working due to a breakdown, or gas line breakage. That's why ALL new homes should be MANDATORY solar powered, and all existing homes retro-fitted for solar power.

It is possible to convert one of these boxes to DC power. I haven't looked at one yet, but if after the internal AC power supply it goes to let's say 12VDC, then a *large 12V battery would work, but you of course have to have provisions to charge the battery. It could be powered by a 12v power tool battery (solar recharge) or the car power inverter, or directly to the car battery if you bypass the internal AC power supply. Most internal boards are 12v, so I assume these are probably 5-12v. If powered by the car, there's the gas problem again because the car would have to be periodically started to keep the battery from draining. *A "large" battery because they would have longer runtime, and would also be sure of having enough current.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThePeople View Post

Had IKE hit here in Houston after that date, the entire month here without electricity would have been like the end of the world. (I own battery banks and inverters...)
AM/FM was only non-stop idots that were of no help!

I forgot to say, God Bless Houston for taking in so many people from LA, and sending so much help! You saved thousands of lives.

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #203 of 368 Old 01-16-2009, 02:40 AM
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Really? Can we whine some more about this DTV issue? This issue has been beaten to death in many threads already - no need to dig up again.

How about them CECB stats?

I called it a couple of months ago - the CECB program will get a bailout, assuming the proposed increase in funds goes through. I didn't hear anything about extending the 3/31 deadline tho - that's a lot of money to spend in such short time. The NTIA/FCC will look like geniuses when there's a surplus at the end.

Wonder how many Chianese factories are right now gambling that there'll be further demand and are cranking up for another production run.
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post #204 of 368 Old 01-16-2009, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

Really? Can we whine some more about this DTV issue? This issue has been beaten to death in many threads already - no need to dig up again.

FYI, I'm only on THIS thread. Furthermore, I wasn't the one that brought it up.

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #205 of 368 Old 01-16-2009, 06:36 AM
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CLint - you want a battery powered CECB ?

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...?PROD=RC-DT09A

and here's the battery pack

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?prod=RC-BP9V

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Being A Beacon of Knowledge in the darkness of FUD
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post #206 of 368 Old 01-16-2009, 08:18 AM
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Clint: You did not mention that gov't should provide you with a 12 volt DISH setup in case local TV was off the air.

Bob 61231
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post #207 of 368 Old 01-16-2009, 08:40 AM
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If the Gov't had any sense (which we all know they never have nor ever will), they would have mandated the converter boxes have the option to be battery powered as well as AC powered! DUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHH.

there are about four dozen models that will work from batteries so you have plenty to choose from.
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post #208 of 368 Old 01-16-2009, 11:07 AM
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WeThePeople, you are likely looking for the Weekly Redemptions Report. They haven't updated since Jan 7th, though. Oops, they just did this morning. Here's the link:

https://www.ntiadtv.gov/docs/WeeklyR...ionsReport.pdf


Yeah! Thats the stuff !!! TY


People applying/waiting, save the above link for reference.

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post #209 of 368 Old 01-17-2009, 08:07 AM
 
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There are "four dozen" aka 48 models of A-to-D converters which can run off batteries? Citation Please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBenn View Post

Did you actually try coupon boxes with your "rabbit ear" antenna? Part of your complaint is that you need a new rooftop antenna in order to get anything.

Quoting myself:
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post

I disagree. For the last 40 years I have been using nothing but rabbit ears + UHF loop to watch my television and get around 20 stations with that setup. Now suddenly, due to government action, the rabbit ears/loop are worthless junk which receive next-to-nothing.

I think in situations where a customer discovers his old rabbit ears/loop antenna is no longer adequate, the Congressman who proposed assistance to upgrade to a rooftop antenna has the correct idea.
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post #210 of 368 Old 01-17-2009, 11:50 AM
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There are "four dozen" aka 48 models of A-to-D converters which can run off batteries? Citation Please.

no citation

go to a list of CECB boxes for sale, count the number that have DC power input

and i said about four dozen, aka about 48
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