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post #271 of 343 Old 06-08-2009, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
- When viewing the 'program guide' it's in the wrong time zone, and it displays 'no data' every single time even though 2 secs. later it *does* display data for the selected channel. This is all to common, poorly/lazy designed firmware - rather than test for a no data condition, just display it anyway and eventually write the data on top of that 'no data' text. Lazy firmware programming. Annoys the user." End quote.

I think I've figured out how the 502 EPG works. While viewing the "full guide", I noticed that the 502 populated PSIP info from ALL available channels, even without having tuned to each channel. The Zenith/Insignia units I have require the user to visit each channel to retrieve it's PSIP data. How is it that the 502 had the information without tuning in each channel?

I believe the answer is that while in the "full guide", you are dumped out of the program you are watching, and see only the guide information. What has really happened is that the 502 has actually tuned to the channel you are viewing guide info for (but are not receiving video or audio). As you scroll through the channels, the PSIP data is retrieved after a short delay after first seeing a "no data" message. It also appears that this information is not cached, because the "no data" message appears even with channels you have viewed "full guide" data previously. In addition, when you exit out of the full guide view, you are dumped to the channel the guide was on, not the channel you were previously watching as with the Zenith/Insignia boxes.

I didn't see a discussion of this anywhere on this thread. Thought it might be of interest.
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post #272 of 343 Old 06-08-2009, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazza View Post

PS - although the Insignia is a clone of the Zenith I don't know if or where the manufacturing date is displayed.

Mine's on the side of the box, with the S/N and UPC (June 2008).
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post #273 of 343 Old 06-08-2009, 07:13 PM
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What I find frustrating about EPG data, is that some chanels seem to be sending continuous refresh markers. Very annoying to have the EPG refresh while you're in the FULL guide mode and trying to view program information hours ahead.
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post #274 of 343 Old 06-15-2009, 09:39 AM
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KPBS in San Diego does that, what a pain.

I finally hooked up my DT502, I probably wouldn't have bought it if I had known the firmware was very similar to the Sunkey. The Sunkey is by far the worst CECB I have used, worst sensitivity, worst picture quality.

I tried the DT502 on my garage TV, with a $1 store set of rabbit ears. I hook up a splitter to the rabbit ears to feed both the DT502 and Sunkey at the same time.

The DT502 is much more sensitive than the Sunkey, both CECBs received all but one of the local DTV stations. With the DT502 I was able to get all scan in channels with no break ups. The Sunkey has drop outs on about half the stations.

I picture quality on the DT502 is much better than the Sunkey, it is hard to tell the difference between the composite and RF outputs on the DT502.

Pros

Sensitivity
Picture quality
Guide

Cons

No way to add a channel.

Overall the DT502 is one of the better CECBs I have tried.

Philip
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post #275 of 343 Old 06-15-2009, 07:51 PM
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does anyone know how this compares to the dt150? I have one coupon left to use. ahh and 3 days.
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post #276 of 343 Old 06-15-2009, 08:17 PM
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I've had the DT250 and DT502. I've thought about using a coupon on a DT150 to compare, but I'm leary. I've been leaning towards a Channel Master and Zinwell ZAT-950A for my last two coupons.
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post #277 of 343 Old 06-16-2009, 03:39 AM
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how old is the dt150? what doesn't it have that the 502 does? I don't think it has timers.
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post #278 of 343 Old 06-16-2009, 11:32 AM
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post #279 of 343 Old 06-16-2009, 03:18 PM
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ya thats why I was hopeing there might be some info here. That thread was usless
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post #280 of 343 Old 06-16-2009, 06:15 PM
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The problem is that someone with a DT150 hasn't posted a real thorough and comparative post yet.
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post #281 of 343 Old 06-29-2009, 07:26 AM
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I wonder if anyone would swap my DT502 for their Channel Master.
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post #282 of 343 Old 06-29-2009, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobi125 View Post

I wonder if anyone would swap my DT502 for their Channel Master.

Just curious, why do you want the CM over the 502? I ended up getting a CM7000 is why I'm curious.
I haven't even checked mine out yet, so when I do if I hate it, FAIK I may want to swap with you.

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #283 of 343 Old 06-29-2009, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Just curious, why do you want the CM over the 502? I ended up getting a CM7000 is why I'm curious.
I haven't even checked mine out yet, so when I do if I hate it, FAIK I may want to swap with you.

I'm pretty far away from the broadcasting towers (and have lots of tall buildings in my area) and can't get many channels without quite a few dropouts. The Channel Master will display a channel with signal strength as low as 10-20%, there will be lots of drop outs, but at least I can sort of watch it. The DT502 will not show the channel unless the signal strength is higher and there are fewer drop outs. The DT502's signal quality standards are a bit high for my location.
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post #284 of 343 Old 06-30-2009, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by nobi125 View Post

I'm pretty far away from the broadcasting towers (and have lots of tall buildings in my area) and can't get many channels without quite a few dropouts. The Channel Master will display a channel with signal strength as low as 10-20%, there will be lots of drop outs, but at least I can sort of watch it. The DT502 will not show the channel unless the signal strength is higher and there are fewer drop outs. The DT502's signal quality standards are a bit high for my location.

Ok thanks. I'll be checking mine out soon.

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #285 of 343 Old 07-22-2009, 09:44 AM
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Target is out of all but rca in my area.
Does anyone know the best place to get a 502 currently?
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post #286 of 343 Old 07-22-2009, 03:17 PM
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THX-1138
I have a new DT502 I will trade for a good coupon plus shipping cost.
You can read about it above on this page.
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post #287 of 343 Old 07-23-2009, 12:25 AM
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I didn't think you still had that.
I bought some of the last in town today at best buy.

They charged me state sales tax too.

I'm very disappointed in the picture quality.
Less sensitive than the CM-7000 too.
I find the epg layout annoying, but at least it has one.
I get a better picture quality on this set without the S-video, but composite.
I will likely keep two for the timer feature though.

So I have one I might swap for a tivax or zenith or something.

There were about ten left.
Only ones in the city as far as I can tell.
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post #288 of 343 Old 07-23-2009, 12:33 AM
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On heat:
This unit has vents on the sides and a large area on top.
I can detect no warmth at all.
The 250 doesn't have the top vent.

I left the unit powered up.
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post #289 of 343 Old 07-23-2009, 08:13 AM
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The first run units (which I have one) don't have the top vents.
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post #290 of 343 Old 08-20-2009, 04:26 PM
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I have Apex DT502, Artec T3AP-LL & LS, CM-7000, Coship N9901T, Digital Stream DTX9900D, Sunkey SK-801ATSC, Tivax STB-8, Venturer STB7766G1 and Zenith DTT901 and have used each for at least one week.

DT502 has the most features: 3-day EPG, favorite up/down, 2 signal meters, s-video and good price. It tends to freeze with weak signals, making it unsuitable for distant stations. The EPG has an annoying flicker and the remote has limited range.

My favorite is the Artec T3AP-LL with the latest software 2.11B. It has the same LG tuner and SysOnChip as the top rated DTT901 but has 2-day EPG, large on-screen channel info display and picture adjustment. It is available online for $40 including shipping.

The CM-7000 is a distant second. It is overprised @ $69.95+s&h, has a remote with too many buttons (not all are functional) and a poor signal meter. It does have favorites and its sensitivity equals that of T3AP-LL or DTT901.

Sunkey SK-801ATSC is the worst, poorest reception, no channel recall and only current/next EPG.
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post #291 of 343 Old 08-24-2009, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post




I get a kick out of all of these posts that list that mostly useless number their tuners signal indicator is showing. If it is, in reality, a actual BER, or just some arbitrary number, it borders on useless. I have seen the most wildiest, inconsistant numbers from tuners I have had experiance with, either TV's or STB's (including CECB's) where it will show a 100 on a somewhat weak signal and a same or similar number on different channels that in reality have far different signal quality levels (strength and/or BER).

Sometimes that's all we have, we can't all be Electrical engineers...but at least we are comparing apples to apples...if my box shows 100% strength and 80% quality and the picture (and sound) looks good, then it's all good.
If I change my antenna location/type and I get similar numbers, then I can continue the comparisons, if the quality goes to pot or signal strength, then I chose the wrong antenna/location.
Quote:


What also amazes me are the number of Americans that are too lazy and/or cheap to erect a outdoor antenna to augment their primary TV source (CATV or satellite) as a backup and/or to receive what isn't available from those two sources.

1} I got rid of cable because all it has is junk on it and was going up for less junk;
2} I am NOT lazy, just very afraid of my roof, it's about 40 deg pitch here in Minnesnowta, so having my size 12 foot with my toes about 8" higher than my heel does not match my anatomy, so then my weight is all on about 4", add to that a 76" frame and 250lbs and there is not enough friction in the world to safely keep me on my feet- dying to have an antenna has whole new meanings;
3} My roof at the peak is 4o feet AGL on 3 of 4 sides, the 4th side is over a concrete path and sharp bushes 30ft;
4} The last TV antenna guy whistled when he saw my roof and said "No way in H*LL he would mount an antenna on my roof for less than $400. That did not include a whole lot of services either and his signal meter with a baseline antenna showed my attic attenuated the signal 10dB!;
5} I ain't lazy, I just ain't dumb and I ain't rich either
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post #292 of 343 Old 08-25-2009, 09:27 AM
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Hey Doc, maybe an attic antenna. I've got one but had a metal roof put on which ruined reception. So as a last ditch effort before moving it outside I moved it near the gable; I got lucky and it's got a straight shot to the towers, better reception than before (previous owner had it positioned pointing through the previous cedar roof, sucked when it rained). The gable worked great because it's that fiber-board stuff and of course being vertical doesn't have the rain issue. Joe Bo says check it out...

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post #293 of 343 Old 08-25-2009, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Doc Sief View Post

3} My roof at the peak is 4o feet AGL on 3 of 4 sides, the 4th side is over a concrete path and sharp bushes 30ft;

Just sharing something often done in the northeast where I am from.

We suffer from inaccessable roofs of multi story buildings both rented and owned.

Solution #1:

On the top floor pick two side by side windows spaced so that their distance apart horizontally
would also clear the roof peak vertically.

Lets call them left window for swival mount / right window for service access.

Outside of the left window,
also on the left side of this left window,
mount two saddle brackets.

One as low as is safe through the bottom with both windows slid up,
then slide both windows down and mount the second as high as is safe.

The difference with this compared to any other traditional dual-saddle wall mount installation is that the top saddle gets the mast thru-bolted so it can be swivelled.

Once the two saddles are in,
measuring between the two saddles tells you how far up from the bottom of the mast to drill
for the thru-bolt to be pre-attached.

Next attach a short pieces of good plastic coated dog-runner cable,
or whatever you have laying around that will stand the enviroment you live in
to the bottom of the mast.

It will be used to raise it from the "Service" postition up to the "Installed" position,
so it doesn't need to be that long.

Because both the top saddle mount's thru-bolt hole,
and mast's thru-bolt itself were prepared before hand.
All one has to do is toss a rope out the top of the left window to lift what is actually the bottom of the mast up to to that top saddle and spin a nut on the thru-bolt.

It is of course pointing straight down at this point,
completely upside down to the way it will end up in the "Installed" position.



There have been many creative methods as to what can be done at the right window next...

But basiclly, I would use a third saddle mount mounted sideways out the left side of the right window.
Then I would cut up an old U-bolt to form a "J" and permanantly tighten it on the bottom hole of the saddle bracket's two holes that it would have normally gone through before the mod.

Then it is back to the left window to swing the mast from straight down position,
into a horizontal position that rests into the right windows sideways saddle bracket's "J" bolt.
As it is still just a bare mast. that is still fairly easy to do.



Slide both left windows back to the top and fish in that "Dog Runner" line you attached to the end of the mast to raise it up through the bottom of the left window.

Mount your antenna through the right window,
run your downfeed out the new hole you make in your wall at the left window,
and get it attached to the antenna at the right window,
throw a healthy handfull of tie-wraps around everything,
then raise it from the left window with that old dog-runner cable you attached.

And of course, don't forget the heavy guage cable you thru-bolt at the bottom saddle mount and dropped to the ground for the lightning rod you'll be pounding in the ground.


Duct (Duck) tape optional...


Never see a ladder or the roof.

This idea was borrowed from flagpoles.
Two pipes spaced the thickness of the flagpole would be sunk into cement in the ground.
Two thru-bolts through both those pipes and the flagpole in the center held it up.
But the top thru-bolt never gets removed.
Only the bottom one so the pole can be layed down for servicng

And another good thing is you can use your Ultrasonic Density Detector (Stud Finder) inside to find the studs,
then measure to the window edge and transfer those measurements outside to be sure the lags hit wood.

I used to screw a 2x4 across the left window horizontally
about 1/3 from the top of the whole window
to lean against for safety to work out the top though...

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post #294 of 343 Old 08-26-2009, 07:43 PM
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Finally found the time to bring an APEX 502 home to test with the Smart Antenna; don't waste your time with this combo!
Though the Smart Antenna is 'sensed'; it can only be used AFTER it attempts to tune in the channels using whatever setting is the default. It shows 15 directions, three levels of gain, and a polarity of 0 or 1 (?what is that about?).
So, scan for all channels as usual, see that though 2.1 &2.2(real channel 34) come in clear, 2.3 & 2.4 (real channel 16) come in poorly. So go to configure, scroll down to Smart Antenna, using Auto, hit OK, and it changes the settings to get 2.3 perfect; exit go to 2.2 and you can't see it; go to Smart Antenna and in gray you can see the best 2.3 setting; have it scan for 2.2, slight change, exit, go to 2.3 and you can't see it as it changed the settings!
It does NOT remember best settings, it does not look for best settings as it scans, it just uses the last settings, so if you tune in an odd channel, use the Smart Antenna to get the best picture, and then decide to scan every thing it appears to return to the factory setting of 1,1,0 for direction, gain, polarity.
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post #295 of 343 Old 08-27-2009, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sief View Post

.....and a polarity of 0 or 1 (?what is that about?).

Transmission/reception can be vertically or horizontally "Poloraized".
The 0/1 is an indicator of which it "Thinks" it is or works best.

Which smart antenna did you buy/try?

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post #296 of 343 Old 08-27-2009, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracknoob View Post

I am amazed at how terrible the DT502 is with regard to the need to carefully align the remote to the unit in order to get it to respond.

A quick inspection of the remote shows a possible cause -- the LED is shrouded deeply inside the unit.

Amazingly draconian measure you resorted to there NOOB, LOL.

I admit to trimming the top lip off of my CM-7000 remotes so the can be used while still laying on the table though...

Even though the plastic may look a particular color or even black to our eyes,
in the infrared range it may be a perfectly shiny surface.
So the parabolic nature of that "Cone" might have worked like the reflector in a flashlight.

But another part of the story is the dispersion angle range of the infrared L.E.D. they chose to implement.

Here is an example from a person seeking a wider angle infrared led to light a scene for a modern infrared-capable camera.
You can't see this with your eyes, so I include this so you can get what I meant about he "Flashlight" effect of a parabolic plastic cone combined with a narrow angle L.E.D..

NARROW
WIDE

That is what you cannot see...looks light a flashlight in the "Narrow" pic doesn't it?



Are you good with a soldering iron?

Got a remore you no longer need,
or need my to google up a wide angle infrared L.E.D.?

HERE are some examples to get you started down the right (Corrective) path

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post #297 of 343 Old 08-27-2009, 06:16 AM
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Doc Sief,

Was it the SA or the 502 that was causing the problem? Since the 502 requires you to rescan everytime you change the antenna direction, there doesn't seem to be an advantage to having a "Smart-Antenna" attached to it.

Does anyone know what the NTIA has to say about "Channel Addition" requirements for CECB's?
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post #298 of 343 Old 08-27-2009, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

Doc Sief,

Was it the SA or the 502 that was causing the problem? Since the 502 requires you to rescan everytime you change the antenna direction, there doesn't seem to be an advantage to having a "Smart-Antenna" attached to it.

Does anyone know what the NTIA has to say about "Channel Addition" requirements for CECB's?

Here's the formal spec: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/frnotices/20...ule_031207.pdf
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post #299 of 343 Old 08-27-2009, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThePeople View Post

I admit to trimming the top lip off of my CM-7000 remotes so the can be used while still laying on the table though...

What's odd is that my CM remote works great on my Zinwells (too great!); makes me wonder if the box sensor could be the culprit? Don't some remotes have two LEDs, one for distance (directive) and one for dispersion? (maybe I'm thinking of older technology).

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post #300 of 343 Old 08-27-2009, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

.....Don't some remotes have two LEDs, one for distance (directive) and one for dispersion? (maybe I'm thinking of older technology).

Yes, as example I have a GE air conditioner, and upright (Vertical squirrel cage style) fan, and a ceiling fan, with one each of the LED types your referring to.

I only noticed it the day I dropped one and it sprung apart.
I poked around a moment before I snapped it back together,
and while doing so noticed the LED's were different.

It wasn't until I incurred a factory document indicating why they were different that I learned they do just that.

Since then I've found only one or two things that have two LED's that are identical parts.

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