Apex DT502 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 343 Old 08-12-2008, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Post any info on the Apex DT502 and any difference from the DT250. A previous thread was wiped out by the forum database crash.
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post #2 of 343 Old 08-12-2008, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Automate View Post

Post any info on the Apex DT502 and any difference from the DT250. A previous thread was wiped out by the forum database crash.

One difference is that the Apex 502 is NTIA-Approved & Not Currently Available.
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post #3 of 343 Old 08-12-2008, 07:50 AM
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Both boxes are CECB and available at the Best Buy in Allen Park, Michigan (as of Thursday, August 7th, 2008. The only difference in packaging is the part number on the outside.
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post #4 of 343 Old 08-12-2008, 10:49 AM
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I just returned from purchasing one of the five that were delivered to the Hagerstown, MD store. They have the DT502's intermixed with the DT250's. As said in the previous post, the only external difference in packaging is the model numbers and the last three in the bar code - 250 vs. 502.

Still can't get past the State of MD charging Sales Tax on the $40 coupon. I also saw where there was a post in another thread that mentioned a 15% coupon available at the local Post office in their "Change of Address" packet. The one in the packet available at my local Post Office was only 10% and when I tried to use it with the purchase of the DT502 (before $40 coupon), the register showed no discount.
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post #5 of 343 Old 08-12-2008, 11:23 AM
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APEX has done a complete revamp with the DT502!

It appears they have a new RF modulator (the RF jacks are reversed from the DT250) and they've got a completely new software package for all functions and EPG (Simple & Full with reminder). There is a new signal bar setup with both Strength & Quality. I'm so liking this box so much that I'm going to try to exchange my DT250 ASAP!

It appears that we may have a new champion in the CECB competition!

NOTE: The remote problem with the DT250 appears to have been fixed with the DT502.
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post #6 of 343 Old 08-12-2008, 11:54 AM
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OK, I just got off the phone with APEX Digital customer support. There is absolutly no way you can add channels manually and when you do a channel scan, it completely wipes out the existing list.

The DT502 is an excellent box, but without manual channel entry or an E-Z Entry (like the Insignia), it's a lead weight, for anyone who uses a rotor antenna. I will not be exchanging my DT250, since it does allow manual channel entry. Stick with the DT250 for now.

NOTE: This would be a great box for anyone with a single fixed antenna.
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post #7 of 343 Old 08-12-2008, 01:17 PM
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  1. The "Aspect" issue of the DT250 has carried over to the DT502
  2. The "Signal Bar" has a very long timeout period. I finally cancelled out after 10 min.
  3. Breakups and drop-outs start occuring around 17-20 on the "Quality" scale. This leads me to believe that all the other boxes are showing just signal quality and not signal strength.
  4. The OSD has been changed to white text on a blue background.
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post #8 of 343 Old 08-13-2008, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

  1. The "Aspect" issue of the DT-250 has carried over to the DT-502

Do you mean that the Aspect doesn't get set and say. It changes to default on every channel change.

I am wondering about the cropping issue. Do you still have noticeable cropping with the DT-502?

Thanks
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post #9 of 343 Old 08-13-2008, 07:58 AM
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That's correct. The Auto Aspect isn't working correctly because of the configurations at the broadcast houses and the manually set aspect is global.

As for the cropping, there's always overscan when you go from 16:9 to 4:3. The DigitalStream 9950, APEX 250, Insignia -APT, and the Venturer that I've used have all had this.
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post #10 of 343 Old 08-13-2008, 08:14 AM
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While playing with the scanning feature of the DT502, I've discovered a puzzling issue.

First, the DT502 lists channel frequencies when it's scanning and not the actual channel number. During the scanning process, I thought I'd be able to tell at what "Quality Level" the CECB locks onto channels. To my surprise, I had some channels lock at 27-30, while others didn't lock at between 37-48. Unfortunately, the scanning process shows only two bars (progress and quality). I would like to see a "Signal Level" bar also.

The really nice thing about this box is it's ability to FINE TUNE channels once their in the channels list. This can help with maximizing the "Quality" and "Signal" levels for solid viewing.

This box out performs the Insignia -APT Hands-Down!
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post #11 of 343 Old 08-13-2008, 10:08 AM
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Interesting... What does the full EPG look like? Are we talking a DTVPal style guide here?
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post #12 of 343 Old 08-13-2008, 11:37 AM
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It's a full screen override menu that has the channel/sub-channel list across the top (selectable), The next three or four programs listed down through the center full width, with partial description, that can be viewed in full upon selection. The EPG is multi-day selectable. Since none of the channels I get go more than two days out (54 has the most EPG information), I'm not sure about the maximum.
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post #13 of 343 Old 08-13-2008, 12:58 PM
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I just bought the insignia ns-dxa1-apt at best buy and thay also had the apex dt250 but not the dt502,i live in N.E. PA.,do you think the newer apex dt502 is that much better than the insignia?i read the reviews of the apex dt250 and many said the insignia and dtt901s were much better?also how would you compare the audio of the dt502 to the insignia ns-dxa1-apt or zenith dtt901?
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post #14 of 343 Old 08-13-2008, 02:35 PM
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I haven't had the Zenith 900 or 901 to test, although I do own the Insignia -APT and the DT250. I like the stability and steadfastness of the DT502 over any other CECB I've tested.

The Insignia will acquire CW54 (from Baltimore at 68.5 Miles) during the evening hours (with breakups), but I will loose it during the daytime. The DT502 has had periods of short duration breakups, generally though, it has been pretty solid at maintaining the channel for the last 24 hours.

Phone your local BB and inquire about the availability of SKU #8913278. It will probably have a couple on the next truck.

APEX Website: http://www.apexdigitalinc.com/

NOTE: I'm in a valley that has two ridge lines between me and Baltimore and most of my reception is Double Edge Diffraction.
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post #15 of 343 Old 08-13-2008, 03:50 PM
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S2K, please compare the heat of the 502 & the Insignia. I've heard the 250 ran hot & the one review of the 502 said it ran hot also. I have a Z 901 = to the Insignia APT & it runs cool but would like one with S video.

My BB is getting 28 502 on FRiday.
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post #16 of 343 Old 08-13-2008, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lmvine View Post

S2K, please compare the heat of the 502 & the Insignia. I've heard the 250 ran hot & the one review of the 502 said it ran hot also. I have a Z 901 = to the Insignia APT & it runs cool but would like one with S video.

My BB is getting 28 502 on FRiday.

I'd (still) like to know what the consensus definition of hot is for CECBs. My 32" LCD TV generates a fair amount of heat, but it's warm, not hot. Ditto my 24" CRT TV, and my Hughes E86 DIRECTV receiver. I wouldn't call any of their cases "hot" - just warm.

One fellow noted that he couldn't hold the F connector on his DS CECB for more than a few seconds, due to the heat. That sounds to me like "hot".
Another fellow measured 115 degrees F on his case. That sounds like "warm" to me. (I'm not forgetting the one DTX-9950 that smoked... that's a whole different ballgame!)

Seems to me that, for CECBs with poor ventilation, warm might be enough to raise fears of shortened box life. But with decent ventilation, 115 degrees or so shouldn't be more of a threat than it is for other consumer electronics.

I guess "cool" would be a box that runs at or less than skin temp, i.e., less than 100 degrees F in round numbers.

I'm not splitting hairs, but if we don't agree on what constitutes running hot, the answers you get may not actually tell you what you want to know.
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post #17 of 343 Old 08-13-2008, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lmvine View Post

S2K, please compare the heat of the 502 & the Insignia. I've heard the 250 ran hot & the one review of the 502 said it ran hot also. I have a Z 901 = to the Insignia APT & it runs cool but would like one with S video.

The case on the DT502 is identical to the DT250 and, as I've pointed out on the 250 thread, the Insignia has a large area of ventilation openings on the top while the APEX doesn't have any. That alone will cause the case to be warmer than the Insignia, due to the rising of heat through convection.

As a comparison, I will use my Princeton Ultra 78 17" CRT graphics monitor. It has plenty of ventilation and has been on since 2000 (It does go into blank mode when I'm not around) and it is putting out, what feels like (since I don't have a thermal meter) three times the heat. I might also compare it to the amount of heat you feel on someones forehead when they have a fever.
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post #18 of 343 Old 08-13-2008, 04:41 PM
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OTAer, I think the hot vs cool might partially be answered by the boxes that meet the energy star compliance at the site below.

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/product..._prod_list.pdf

The Apex boxes are not on it which is not a stopper but an indication.
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post #19 of 343 Old 08-13-2008, 04:59 PM
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Thanks S2K. Sounds like some vent holes might be in order,

On what basis do you say it "out performs the Insignia hands down" beyond the signal holding on one channel? Just wondering since I have another coupon that expires in a couple of weeks.
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post #20 of 343 Old 08-13-2008, 05:46 PM
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My basis is on the fact that my location to Altoona/Johnstown, Baltimore, DC, & Harrisburg/Lancaster/York is considered "Deepest Fringe" on my UHF reception capability with Double Edge Diffractions, no Pre-Amp on an aged antenna, and the ability of the box to maintain viewability (I don't get CW54 via analog).

Channel 13 WJZ-DT is 63% "Signal Strength" & 100% "Signal Quality."
Channel 54 WNUV-DT is currently 55% "Signal Strength" & 64% "Signal Quality."


When I get a good tropo night (like I had the other night), I can see how well the box will perform with WBAL 11, WBFF 45, & WUTB 24.

Sensitivity is a very important factor for me right now, although I am working at putting up an antenna field that has a minimum elevation of 36' and CM0264DSB pre-amplifiers.
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post #21 of 343 Old 08-13-2008, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lmvine View Post

OTAer, I think the hot vs cool might partially be answered by the boxes that meet the energy star compliance...

The Apex boxes are not on it which is not a stopper but an indication.

With my Kill-A-Watt meter the DT250 uses 9 Watts when on and practically zero when off. I am planning on picking up a DT502 when my BB gets them and will see how it compares.
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post #22 of 343 Old 08-14-2008, 09:14 AM
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Channel 13 WJZ-DT is 63% "Signal Strength" & 100% "Signal Quality."
Channel 54 WNUV-DT is currently 55% "Signal Strength" & 64% "Signal Quality."


Thanks S2K, assume these are numbers for DT502 box, but how do they compare to the Insignia?
Maybe I missed something.

Interesting that Apex doesn't have the 502 on their website, still showing 250 box.
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post #23 of 343 Old 08-14-2008, 10:27 AM
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My Insignia -APT unit doesn't acquire channel 54 during the daytime when the antenna is peaked for CW. The signal level bar on the Insignia is kind of useless when it comes to trying to fine-tune, since there is a three segmented bar with an audio tone and no numerical equivilance. I'll take the numbers over the tone any day.

Being just after Noon, with my antenna at 145°, I'm currently getting:

Ch-13 CBS - 57-96% Quality / 56% Strength - 68.5 miles - on axis
Ch-31 MPT - 79-92% Quality / 68% Strength - 21 miles - minor drops - 86° off axis
Ch-54 CW - 25-59% Quality / 53% Strength - 68.5 miles - on axis
Ch-60 iON - 82-84% Quality / 81% Strength - 34.4 miles - 80° off axis
Ch-68 Independent - 100% Quality / 85% Strength - 15.3 miles - 129° off axis
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post #24 of 343 Old 08-14-2008, 01:40 PM
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Testing the EPG, I find that none of the broadcasters that I receive go beyond 11 hours.

A couple of the stations have their updating set to less than 30 seconds, which is very frustrating to try and view. Everytime you scroll down to an upcoming show, the list rebuilds. If noone caught it, the "Full" EPG will take you out of the program your watching, to view it.

The DT502 also has sleep times starting at 15 min., where the DT250 starts at 1 hour.
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post #25 of 343 Old 08-14-2008, 02:07 PM
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NEWS FLASH!!

I'm finding that this box locks up regularly and requires a power down to reboot. Sometimes that means unplugging the DT502 from the outlet. It retains all the information that was present when it freezes.

I'm going to exchange the box to see if I might have a defective unit.

System Information:
Software Version: X1.00-06132008
Hardware Version: 001
Loader Version: 11230

UPDATE NOTE: This problem seems to be indicative of either multi-path, marginal signal, or outside interference. When signal levels are improved, the problem goes away.
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post #26 of 343 Old 08-14-2008, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

NEWS FLASH!!

I'm finding that this box locks up regularly and requires a power down to reboot. Sometimes that means unplugging the DT502 from the outlet. It retains all the information that was present when it freezes.

I'm going to exchange the box to see if I might have a defective unit.

System Information:
Software Version: X1.00-06132008
Hardware Version: 001
Loader Version: 11230

I have had the lockup problem with my DT250. Even the power button stops working until I unplug it.

Just picked up a DT502 tonight. Exactly same system info as yours. Haven't had lockup problem yet.
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post #27 of 343 Old 08-14-2008, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Automate View Post

With my Kill-A-Watt meter the DT250 uses 9 watts when on and practically zero when off.

DT502 is using 7 watts.
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post #28 of 343 Old 08-14-2008, 08:50 PM
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I've not had any lock-up problems with the DT250. It's been rock solid since I have been using it.

Knowing you're experience, gives me hope it's a unit issue and not a model issue.
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post #29 of 343 Old 08-14-2008, 11:03 PM
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Thanks guys for all this info.
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post #30 of 343 Old 08-15-2008, 01:36 AM
 
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I recently tested the Apex DT-502. I had no previous experience (with the DT-250), so this review is based solely on the DT-502.

For the record, I tested two of these, since I was impressed overall with this box and was hopeful that the problems I encountered were related only to a potentially defective unit. Unfortunately, this was not the case, as both performed equally.

I've read here about a problem with this box (and/or the DT-250) locking up and requiring a re-boot.
I haven't experienced this problem but on three occasions (with both units I tested) one or two channels would display no picture or sound whatsoever and the meters displayed 0%!......While at the very same time, two other boxes (Channel Master and Zenith), receiving identical signal, were perfectly OK on the same channels!
The meters on these other boxes indicated approx. 90%.
After turning the power off and back on, the picture/sound was normal but it then the same problem occurred again approx. one hour later!
......this is bizarre behavior and is a major concern for me!......Who needs this type of inconsistancy?
Why should it be neccesary to re-boot these boxes (or even have to turn them off and back on)?......perhaps it's related to the heat issue (this box has minimal venting and does get very warm!)
Regardless of the source of these problems......it makes this box unacceptable to me!!

Unfortunately, the Apex is the least sensitive of the (numerous) boxes I've had experience with (especially with weaker signals and/or an indoor antenna). It produced more glitches (freezing, pixelization, skipping, drop outs, etc.) than several other boxes (utilizing the same signal). It's important that I point out that I tested this box (as others) with weak, questionable signal. This is a much better way to gauge the sensitivity of all of these boxes. With a good (or even decent) outdoor antenna, all (or most) of these boxes (generally) perform good to excellent. I have found this to be true, since I've run tests with both indoor (questionable) signal and outdoor (nearly perfect) signal. Regardless, this box performed poorly with weaker signal.

As a side note......when reception/sensitivity issues are discussed on these CECB threads (in general)......it's very important that the type of antenna (indoor/outdoor/type/
brand), location, amplifier, etc. be noted on all posts that discuss reception/sensitivity issues and the performance of the particular box as it relates to these issues.


Additionally, the Apex has an overall greenish cast (on all channels). This was consistant with both units I tested and was obvious with the composite and S-video outputs.
The color intensity is somewhat reduced as well (not a major issue) but the greenish cast is not only quite noticeable...... it's also quite annoying. Just how noticeable and/or annoying may be relative to the overall quality, age and accuracy of your TV's picture. I certainly wouldn't recommend it for someone that has a relatively new TV or one with accurate color rendition, as it will throw it off. Adjusting the tint control on the TV will compensate for it (somewhat) but not correct it and if you have other sources connected to that particular TV, it will create overcompensation for those sources.

One other issue with the Apex......the remote control is poorly laid out with some of the smallest buttons on the planet!......so tiny are the buttons (and the labelling) that some (with questionable eyesight) may need a magnifier to use this remote!......even with perfect eyesight, it's quite annoying.
and it has limited sensitivity.....you'll need to be aiming the remote very carefully!

It's truly unfortunate that the Apex has these (rather significant) problems because overall, it's a fairly well designed converter with good graphics and a better than average EPG, which gives you a choce of both a simple and more detailed guide and expanded program info. (I've seen 24 hours and some have reported 48 hours......dependent upon the channel).

This box is a poor choice if your reception and/or distance from the transmitters is at all questionable and if you're concerned about good quality color rendition. It's reliability is also highly questionable!
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