Echostar TR-40 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 421 Old 08-25-2008, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BaseShip View Post

Thanks for the inform. I got 2 coupons...maybe I'll risk 1 of them...since there doesn't seem to be other timer based box to choose from except Zinwell. I'd prefer get one in store, but they don't sell this in store...have to sit on this one for just a little while before I make a decision.

yeah i've been debating about the zinwell vs the tr40cra too...now im leaning towards the tr40cra if the timer issues have been fixed cause it seems more user friendly than the zinwell. I still have about 1 week to decide!
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post #92 of 421 Old 08-25-2008, 07:47 PM
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cheaplikeafox,

It seems not many people bought this new model (can't blame them). Unless there are negative user experience popping up on it in next week, I guess it's worth the risk.

If you order it in a week, where are you gonna buy it from? Official Dish site ? Is there advantage buying direct from Dish I wonder.
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post #93 of 421 Old 08-25-2008, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BaseShip View Post

cheaplikeafox,

It seems not many people bought this new model (can't blame them). Unless there are negative user experience popping up on it in next week, I guess it's worth the risk.

If you order it in a week, where are you gonna buy it from? Official Dish site ? Is there advantage buying direct from Dish I wonder.

i think i would buy it from the official dish site...i think it costs like a dollar more than the digitalstar.com? I guess just in case there is something wrong, at least they know we bought it from them and they might be more willing to help since our accounts will already be set up and in the system. It might ease the process of returning units...but hopefully we won't need to!
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post #94 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by cheaplikeafox View Post

i think i would buy it from the official dish site...i think it costs like a dollar more than the digitalstar.com? I guess just in case there is something wrong, at least they know we bought it from them and they might be more willing to help since our accounts will already be set up and in the system. It might ease the process of returning units...but hopefully we won't need to!

Actually, there are many reasons not to buy it from dish (and I'm a dish subscriber already)

- They must enter you into their system for call tracking, a slow process prone to error by voice/rekeying vs. you entering on a web site.
- If you have previously been a dish customer or currently are, they get all screwed up thinking you want to order local programming, or upgrade your package or stuff like that, rather than selling you the free box.
- They make up random stories about compatability/etc.. because they don't have the right scripts in front of them.
- They make up pricing, try to charge $100 installation until you correct them and they put you on long holds to confirm pricing.
- They charge tax on the shipping (a service that is not taxable in most (all?) states)

DigitalStar however seems to be a rather quiet order process. You place you order, get a generated confirmation, then wait 1-3 weeks and then your product shows up wrapped in paper sent USPS Priority mail. (I ordered a TiVax from them) However I'll take that over dealing with a random-world-located-dish-CSR reading from a script or making things up any day, not to mention saving a few bucks on shipping. ($8 for 1x, $13 for 2x at Digital Star)
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post #95 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 08:40 AM
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Manalive is Dish ever gouging people on shipping costs...
Are they making up for the "free" cost by jacking up shipping charges?

This is really lame - shame on Dish Network.

Makes me want to cancel my sat service with them and go to Directv
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post #96 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 10:06 AM
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Any word of B&M stores carrying it?
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post #97 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy_american View Post

Manalive is Dish ever gouging people on shipping costs...
Are they making up for the "free" cost by jacking up shipping charges?

This is really lame - shame on Dish Network.

Makes me want to cancel my sat service with them and go to Directv

You should wait for the TR-20wtf. Unit $20, and shipping might be about $33.00?


Seriously though.
From what I read in another thread, it was alleged DISH knew they were selling defective units. Hence, you pay upfront for the "exchange" shipping.
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post #98 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

You should wait for the TR-20wtf. Unit $20, and shipping might be about $33.00?

Seriously though.
From what I read in another thread, it was alleged DISH knew they were selling defective units. Hence, you pay upfront for the "exchange" shipping.

Am I correct that the TR-20wtf is the model for Dish Network subscribers to get their local channels for (a lifetime of) small monthly fees? Or was that the Canton Ohio company with the full page newspaper ads?

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post #99 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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got my 2 tr40 today and the remote is the 1.5 just like the dtvpal
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post #100 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

Am I correct that the TR-20wtf is the model for Dish Network subscribers to get their local channels for (a lifetime of) small monthly fees? Or was that the Canton Ohio company with the full page newspaper ads?

No?
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post #101 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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i jest sent an email to dish teck asking when will they fix the timer problem with the dtvpal since it seams the tr40 doesn't have this problem.
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post #102 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagger666 View Post

got my 2 tr40 today and the remote is the 1.5 just like the dtvpal

When and where did you place the order? If DigitalStar that would be very fast and means they actually have them ready to ship.
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post #103 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 01:54 PM
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I got the box I ordered from dtvpal.com, order date 8/20.

Due to tower work, I have 3 stations not broadcasting today, and since one is CBS, I will wait on timer testing until I get the signal back.
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post #104 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

Due to tower work, I have 3 stations not broadcasting today, and since one is CBS, I will wait on timer testing until I get the signal back.

Don't you want to know the whole story?

Is the DTVPal/TR-40CRA supposed to work only for people with access to a CBS station? I don't remember reading that requirement in Dish Network's advertisements.
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post #105 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Replay3030Owner View Post

Actually, there are many reasons not to buy it from dish (and I'm a dish subscriber already)

- They must enter you into their system for call tracking, a slow process prone to error by voice/rekeying vs. you entering on a web site.
- If you have previously been a dish customer or currently are, they get all screwed up thinking you want to order local programming, or upgrade your package or stuff like that, rather than selling you the free box.
- They make up random stories about compatability/etc.. because they don't have the right scripts in front of them.
- They make up pricing, try to charge $100 installation until you correct them and they put you on long holds to confirm pricing.
- They charge tax on the shipping (a service that is not taxable in most (all?) states)

DigitalStar however seems to be a rather quiet order process. You place you order, get a generated confirmation, then wait 1-3 weeks and then your product shows up wrapped in paper sent USPS Priority mail. (I ordered a TiVax from them) However I'll take that over dealing with a random-world-located-dish-CSR reading from a script or making things up any day, not to mention saving a few bucks on shipping. ($8 for 1x, $13 for 2x at Digital Star)

I was going to order from dish online...it looks like a relatively easy process. I don't know what or how they can make up pricing when it's pretty clear online what the pricing is. I don't see how they can offer me a $100 installation fee online... I think you were describing buying from dish through the phone which I wasn't going to do cause it does seem like a lot of people having trouble with the pricing. Thanks for your advice anyway.
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post #106 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 02:42 PM
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No, it is supposed to not work for those with CBS broadcasting digital tvgos. The test of whether it's fixed requires not just CBS, but CBS broadcasting digital tvgos. Symbios' test was great news, because it met the required test conditions. Mine will meet test conditions in a couple more hours.
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post #107 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

No, it is supposed to not work for those with CBS broadcasting digital tvgos. The test of whether it's fixed requires not just CBS, but CBS broadcasting digital tvgos.

I must have missed the discussions where timekeeping and accurate timer firing have been fixed if you don't have a TVGOS enabled CBS station available.
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post #108 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by uniquelyme View Post

I must have missed the discussions where timekeeping and accurate timer firing have been fixed if you don't have a TVGOS enabled CBS station available.

It wasn't fixed because it wasn't a problem as long as you weren't getting the digital TVGOS signal and your local stations had fairly accurate time,
as many areas do.

If a user is in a region that does not receive the broadcast CBS digital TVGOS stream, there hasn't been a problem reported (that I am aware of) with the timers being altered by the routine abnormal guide download at power on, because that doesn't reportedly occur.
The abnormal guide download seems to be triggered when getting the digital TVGOS stream.

My timers work flawlessly on F100 and F101. My local CBS is not broadcasting digital TVGOS or triggering the CBS time lock.
If and when they do, I may have the problems others have been bellyaching about.

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post #109 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 03:18 PM
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Eagerly awaiting the test results
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post #110 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

It wasn't fixed because it wasn't a problem as long as you weren't getting the digital TVGOS signal and your local stations had fairly accurate time, as many areas do.

I don't recall seeing this requirement in any Dish Network advertisement either.

Do you think the majority of purchasers realize that they need to have an understanding of TVGOS/CBS/PSIP issues in their area to know whether the DTVPal/TR-40CRA has a chance of working properly for them?
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post #111 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uniquelyme View Post

I don't recall seeing this requirement in any Dish Network advertisement either.

Do you think the majority of purchasers realize that they need to have an understanding of TVGOS/CBS/PSIP issues in their area to know whether the DTVPal/TR-40CRA has a chance of working properly for them?

Of course not. Now you're telegraphing your childishness.

The TR-40CRA works in either case, doesn't it?
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post #112 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 04:18 PM
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Do I have to wait 4 hours, or just long enough to get that update screen? With the new channels that haven't had a chance to get filled in, it should be ready to give me that screen without having to wait long. So, will it spoil the test if I look for the screen now?
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post #113 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

Do I have to wait 4 hours, or just long enough to get that update screen? With the new channels that haven't had a chance to get filled in, it should be ready to give me that screen without having to wait long. So, will it spoil the test if I look for the screen now?

The program information is in 3 hour blocks, starting at midnight UTC/GMT. I suspect you may need to get into a different block to trigger the download, which is why I asked Symbios to wait more than 3 hours, and he waited 4.

Depending on when you do it, it could just require a few minutes to get into a different block. For example, 2:55GMT and 3:05 GMT would be in different blocks, but if you started at 3:05 GMT, you would have to be after 6:00 GMT to be in a different block.
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post #114 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 04:36 PM
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f
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

The TR-40CRA works in either case, doesn't it?

Not that I'm aware of.

In the case of not having a TVGOS enabled CBS station, if the TR-40CRA has solved the problem of firing its event timers early or late if the the station you're viewing doesn't have the correct time, that's great news.

In the case of having a TVGOS enabled CBS station, if the TR-40CRA has solved the problem of firing its event timers early or late because you've been watching the Olympics on NBC for several hours and your clock has drifted off, that's also great news.

You've limited your scope of deciding whether the TR-40CRA is fixed and totally operational to the narrow situation of whether event timers get altered/deleted during EPG scans. While that is certainly a major problem that needs to be corrected, it's hardly the only obstacle to having working timers.

The vast majority of DTVPal/TR-40CRA purchasers who buy one to augment their VCR would expect to simply plug the unit in and operate it as the manual instructs. They're used to their VCR keeping reasonably accurate time, maybe needing a slight adjustment to its clock once every several months. If satisfactory operation of a DTVPal/TR-40CRA relies on several highly technical conditions outside of their control, shouldn't they be forewarned about them? If they may need to complain to several of their local stations and convince them to keep their clocks accurate before they can use timers, shouldn't they know this before they make an "All sales are final" purchase?

Why is having a discussion of these issues and asking these kinds of questions "telegraphing your childishness"?
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post #115 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 05:06 PM
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Thanks, ken. Impatient, so I tried it and it did do the download, with no loss or change of timers. I'll also just let it sit on standby until 8 or so, and then will look again. But it does look promising.
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post #116 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replay3030Owner View Post

When and where did you place the order? If DigitalStar that would be very fast and means they actually have them ready to ship.

DTVPAL.com, figured why not but i did have to call , it would not take my order on line since ordered 2 DTVPAL before. Funny the sales lady asked me if I'm using my DTVPAL , i told her one of them . they switched me to another person who told me to order it over the DTVPAL web site since it wasn't a dish product . I told her i did and it gave me your number because it would not take my order , so she took the order and told me it would cost over $100 . I said it can't because the box sold for $40 and with the coupon it would be free, she said it was $40 with the coupon, told her with the coupon it was free but for shipping and tax and she said that was impossible . I asked for her supervisor and got it done. How could they make a box and not include vent holes, all electronics get hot not just the power supply's .
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post #117 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

Thanks, ken. Impatient, so I tried it and it did do the download, with no loss or change of timers. I'll also just let it sit on standby until 8 or so, and then will look again. But it does look promising.

It is sad how we are having to try to put together data on the DTVpal and the TR40CRA.
The manual provides no information about all the quirks of the DTVpal.
The DTVpal FAQs provide no updates.
The support line people are just reading scripts and providing contradicting information.
DISH is not providing official public information on what it will do about the DTVpal converters it, and its retailers, have sold so far.

All we can do is try to help each other, by trying to analyze the reports in the forum, sharing information received by individuals, looking at documents like the ATSC standard, and speculating on what is going on.

Based on the Symbios results, who is in the Denver metro area like me, I decided to finally use my (2)coupons. They were to expire on 9-3-2008. I decided to give DigitalStar.com a try. That way I am only risking my coupons and $12.99 for shipping. Since I have never dealt with them before, I gave them a VAN credit card number capped at $15.
FYI: So far everthing has gone as it should.
I have received an order confirmation email.
My credit card has had a $12.99 charge reserved.
The Coupons are shown as used at the NTIA website.
When I went back to the web site a few minutes after I entered the order, it reported: "Coupon(s) Are Valid, Order Has Been Processed."
It documented: Order Created, Transaction ... transacted, and Coupons ... APPROVED.
This all took place in much less than an hour.

When I checked out dtvpal.com, the shipping was listed at $17.90. The order entry page was not showing any taxes, but I presume that $6.60 ($80@8.25%) would have been added if I had gone through with the transaction. It was showing no tax even if I did not claim to have coupons, or that I was going to order DTVpal(s). I know DISH is require to collect sales tax for the taxable portion of a Colorado purchase, which I believe includes the value of the coupons. Maybe it would not calculate tax because I had not filled in all the fields, but I had filled in City, State, and Zip, which should have been enough. I was not going to provide anything else to them, just to check the final cost.
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post #118 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagger666 View Post

DTVPAL.com, figured why not but i did have to call , it would not take my order on line since ordered 2 DTVPAL before. Funny the sales lady asked me if I'm using my DTVPAL , i told her one of them . they switched me to another person who told me to order it over the DTVPAL web site since it wasn't a dish product . I told her i did and it gave me your number because it would not take my order , so she took the order and told me it would cost over $100 . I said it can't because the box sold for $40 and with the coupon it would be free, she said it was $40 with the coupon, told her with the coupon it was free but for shipping and tax and she said that was impossible . I asked for her supervisor and got it done. How could they make a box and not include vent holes, all electronics get hot not just the power supply's .

Heh, sounds very similar to my story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenavs View Post


Based on the Symbios results, who is in the Denver metro area like me, I decided to finally use my (2)coupons. They were to expire on 9-3-2008. I decided to give DigitalStar.com a try. That way I am only risking my coupons and $12.99 for shipping. Since I have never dealt with them before, I gave them a VAN credit card number capped at $15.

When I checked out dtvpal.com, the shipping was listed at $17.90. The order entry page was not showing any taxes, but I presume that $6.60 ($80@8.25%) would have been added if I had gone through with the transaction. It was showing no tax even if I did not claim to have coupons, or that I was going to order DTVpal(s). I know DISH is require to collect sales tax for the taxable portion of a Colorado purchase, which I believe includes the value of the coupons. Maybe it would not calculate tax because I had not filled in all the fields, but I had filled in City, State, and Zip, which should have been enough. I was not going to provide anything else to them, just to check the final cost.

Yeah, it would have came to $22 something. But I thought it was worth it seeing as how I had them in my hands the very next day.

Completely unrelated and useless info, but I was trying to see how long the TR-40 would keep the time without a signal and found out after about 7-8 hours it seems to become unsure of itself and deletes the time and date completely. It also suspends the timer function until it receives a time signal again.
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post #119 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 08:32 PM
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yeah i'm glad there's this forum to report problems and fixes...otherwise i wouldn't have known that the normal converter boxes don't have timers, and the boxes with timers are flawed also haha

kenavs, let us know when you get your tr40cras and what version they are too so digitalstar.com is a flat $12.99 for 2 boxes? I was only going to get 1 box so the price difference b/w digitalstar and dish network would have only been a small difference.
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post #120 of 421 Old 08-26-2008, 08:47 PM
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I let my first timer fire with the TR40 in standby, and I can tell from the recording that it started with another guide download. The channel I had picked was showing DNC live, and I can't verify that it was ready to go on the hour since I didn't synchronize clocks, but it looks like it behaved as expected. Can't do much more tonight without interrupting someone's tv viewing. It seems like a nice little unit. To quote an infamous local salesman, "Free is a very good price."
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