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post #271 of 401 Old 04-20-2009, 11:27 PM
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beeper - thanks for all the information!

It's late so I will have to re-read your comments to ensure that I fully understand them.

My initial understanding of what you shared is that the programming guide page displayed as it did (without completion) because the PP experienced one of its occassional/rare "stuck" downloads.

To avoid that, it is ok to disable the "inactivity standby" time setting for a short time.
(If I want to ensure that a taping of a show goes as planned when I am away, I plan on doing this, assuming my understanding of this cause-effect scenario is correct.)

By putting the PP in a longer period of inactivity standby disablement, maintenance will suffer and the time setting may be affected adversely. If that does happen, is there a way to manually reset the clock or to tell the PP to seek out digital time as sent by a station, or do I need to unplug the cord or choose the "reboot" option (which I would not want to do, due to having to "fine tune" the settings to a more desirable state)?

So, the PP occassionally gets stuck doing the guide download? Great!! Another example of "buyer/operator beware!"

From what I understand of your explanation, the guide download should take about 15 seconds, which is close to the time it took for this new box's initialization, which surprised me, given the size of the EPG grid display and information. I thought it would take much longer. (By the way, I did notice lengthier program descriptions on the top of the page after I had used the box a day later. When I first set up this box, I didn't see that.) If the box is turned off, confirmation of maintenance taking place will be indicated by the green light turning on, and then of course turning off when maintenance is completed.

Is my understanding correct, in that if I see that the light is staying on for, let's say at least 30 minutes, that the download is stuck, and that I should unplug the power cord, wait a few seconds, and then plug it back in?
What if I turned on the tv to see what the PP was doing, and hit the "select" button to "unfreeze" the guide download? Would the download start again by the box being turned off, or would I have to wait until the next scheduled guide download?

What have you found is the longest period of time for disabling the "inactive" standby setting which does not disrupt the time settings?

If I went to work at 10am and wanted to record a program at 8pm with the event timer to turn on to that station at that time, would an 8 hour period of a disabled inactivity standby mess things up, given that as you said, guide downloads can take place during the day?

Now I know why the PP turns itself on 3 minutes before the actual event timer setting. It makes sense, that if it performs the "guide download" when the set is turned on, that it would need time to complete that before turning on to the station, and given that certain menu screens block out any audio/video transmission, that it needs to give itself time to complete that action to free up the box for audio/video transmission.

Another post referred to the purpose of the left light on the front of the box. I can't recall exactly what someone said its purpose was - something about standby. So far, only the green light has turned on with my box.

I live in a major metropolitan urban area in the mid-Atlantic region. Do you think that CBS is the source for the tv guide information? I noticed that yesterday, when scrolling forward to see how far the tv listings went, one of the stations that had the most listings into the future WAS the CBS station. I think it went forward about 20 hours. Most of the other stations said, "no information available." The CBS programs even had the descriptions of the program, such as which guests were appearing on shows such as Ellen Degeneris. The ABC listing for Oprah, even for the following hour, had nothing listed (vs the Degeneris show which was not to come on for another 15 hours or so!)

I had posted about occassional loss of audio/vido synchronization (and not restored/reset without having to tune to a different station and then back again) on a few stations when a signal was lost temporarily with the Zinwell 950-A. I have not experienced this with the Insignia (other than a bad feed from the source). Have you experienced any such loss of synchronization with the PP? When taping is done when I am away, I have to hope that the snychronization continues. So far, the tuner of the PP seems to hold stations fairly well, and when the signal reception is weakened, the picture doesn't seem to break apart to the degree it does with the Zinwell (which eventually causes the audio feed to be delayed by a second past its normal timing for a station or two, in particular, one which is a major station, not a sub-channel).

Have you monitored how many times a day the PP downloads the tv guide information? As you said, this is probably dependent on the area in which the user lives (the PP setup prompts the user to enter his/her zipcode, which probably allows the box to program itself to receive the guide download from the source for that area). Is their some website that might give me this information for the urban area in which I live? If I had that information, then that would obviously help me to know when to have the box "ready" for the download. It does make sense as you said, that if the box is on, tuned to a station, that it would not do the download, since that download would "block out' being able to watch the station.

If a guide download is missed due to the box being on and a station being watched, does the download take place immediately after the box is turned off, or does it take place at the next scheduled maintenace?

It would be helpful if this information was in the manual!! This box is not for the faint of heart, but I am willing to go through these hassles to have the luxury of being able to have the use of such an extensive tv guide listing.

And last - am I the only one who finds it odd that the "menu" button on the remote is positioned where it is versus being in the position of the "sys info" button? I find I use the "menu" button frequently and due to the cradling position of the remote in my hand, would find it much more handy (pardon the pun) to have that button positoned closer to where my thumb rests vs. having to move it all the way to the top of the remote. I have no idea why the "sys info" button is positoned almost in the "prime area" of the remote.
The channel select and menu action buttons are positioned in useful areas, which I am grateful for.
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post #272 of 401 Old 04-21-2009, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

beeper - thanks for all the information!

it is ok to disable the "inactivity standby" time setting for a short time.
(If I want to ensure that a taping of a show goes as planned when I am away, I plan on doing this, assuming my understanding of this cause-effect scenario is correct.)

You can disable the inactivity timer and leave the unit powered on until the clock drifts and would need updating. (I've never tested that.)
Some users have reported that the clock drifts fairly soon.
With the antenna removed from a unit (so it couldn't do maintenance) the clock is accurate for about 8 hours and then the time disappeared from the display. With the antenna connected so the unit receives a time signal, the clock may last longer while unattended.

You can leave the inactivity timer setting disabled, as long as you manually power off the unit occasionally to allow it to do maintenance. I don't recommend using it this way, unless your unit has issues or a particular recording is a "gotta have".

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

is there a way to manually reset the clock or to tell the PP to seek out digital time as sent by a station, or do I need to unplug the cord or choose the "reboot" option?

If the clock drifts from being left powered on for a long period of inactivity, tune your CBS station (either manually or unattended with an event timer) or manually power off the unit and then power it on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

If the box is turned off, confirmation of maintenance taking place will be indicated by the green light turning on, and then of course turning off when maintenance is completed.

Is my understanding correct, in that if I see that the light is staying on for, let's say at least 30 minutes, that the download is stuck, and that I should unplug the power cord, wait a few seconds, and then plug it back in? What if I turned on the tv to see what the PP was doing, and hit the "select" button to "unfreeze" the guide download?

If the unit is powered off and you see it green light while it does maintenance, it shouldn't be on for much more than 15 to 20 seconds.

Occasionally it may get stuck in maintenance mode. (Not sure which task is stuck) Green light stays on and no audio or video output.
Pressing the select button will not unfreeze the unit. Unplugging for a few seconds to reset it is the only cure. Replug it and give it time to boot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

If I went to work at 10am and wanted to record a program at 8pm with the event timer to turn on to that station at that time, would an 8 hour period of a disabled inactivity standby mess things up, given that as you said, guide downloads can take place during the day?

That may work O.K. depending on if your clock drifts. With the unit powered on it will not do maintenance during the day.
I would recommend that you give it some time to see if you have any further problem with the guide download getting stuck.
That should be a rare occurrence. Out of a dozen units I've used in the last year, the guide download (at power on) failed to complete only once.

Getting stuck in maintenance mode is more common, or if you have other remotes that occasionally power on the Pal from a stray command,
it could green light without any audio or video.

It could also be powered off and be unresponsive to remote commands. (No green light blink with remote command)

A few more rare occurrences that require unplugging to reset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

Another post referred to the purpose of the left light on the front of the box. I can't recall exactly what someone said its purpose was - something about standby.
So far, only the green light has turned on with my box.

What looks similar to the power on/off status light is the remote sensor. If that lights up red, contact DISH immediately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

Do you think that CBS is the source for the tv guide information?

Only the guide data for CBS operated channels and sub-channels.
The default guide data is a collection of individual data sent from each station that you can tune.
The section in the user guide about an optional mode for TVGOS or Guide Plus does not apply to your usage.
The unit can substitute the time signal from a particular station for all other tuned stations time signal where the unit senses a TVGOS signal. (Usually CBS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

I had posted about occassional loss of audio/vido synchronization Have you experienced any such loss of synchronization with the PP?

I occasionally witness temporary lip synch issues on various digital tuners that seems to be from the broadcast source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

Have you monitored how many times a day the PP downloads the tv guide information? If I had that information, then that would obviously help me to know when to have the box "ready" for the download.

If a guide download is missed due to the box being on and a station being watched, does the download take place immediately after the box is turned off, or does it take place at the next scheduled maintenace?

You do not need to be concerned at all about "being ready" or missing maintenance because you were using the unit when it would have normally occurred.
My prior post states that maintenance mode is used to refresh the guide, clock time and scan for new channels if you don't use the unit regularly.

Whenever you are actively using the unit, the clock time and guide info is constantly updated in the background.
So even though you may have missed a scheduled maintenance, you don't need it because you were just actively using the unit.
All you missed was a scan for new channels. Furthermore, the next time you power on the unit, the guide data and clock time are refreshed.

The only time to be concerned about getting enough maintenance is if you leave the unit on (inactivity standby disabled) and don't actively use it,
then the time may drift and the guide data may become stale.
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post #273 of 401 Old 04-21-2009, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

You can disable the inactivity timer and leave the unit powered on until the clock drifts and would need updating. (I've never tested that.)
Some users have reported that the clock drifts fairly soon.
With the antenna removed from a unit (so it couldn't do maintenance) the clock is accurate for about 8 hours and then the time disappeared from the display. With the antenna connected so the unit receives a time signal, the clock may last longer while unattended.

You can leave the inactivity timer setting disabled, as long as you manually power off the unit occasionally to allow it to do maintenance. I don't recommend using it this way, unless your unit has issues or a particular recording is a "gotta have".





If the clock drifts from being left powered on for a long period of inactivity, tune your CBS station (either manually or unattended with an event timer) or manually power off the unit and then power it on.



If the unit is powered off and you see it green light while it does maintenance, it shouldn't be on for much more than 15 to 20 seconds.

Occasionally it may get stuck in maintenance mode. (Not sure which task is stuck) Green light stays on and no audio or video output.
Pressing the select button will not unfreeze the unit. Unplugging for a few seconds to reset it is the only cure. Replug it and give it time to boot.



That may work O.K. depending on if your clock drifts. With the unit powered on it will not do maintenance during the day.
I would recommend that you give it some time to see if you have any further problem with the guide download getting stuck.
That should be a rare occurrence. Out of a dozen units I've used in the last year, the guide download (at power on) failed to complete only once.

Getting stuck in maintenance mode is more common, or if you have other remotes that occasionally power on the Pal from a stray command,
it could green light without any audio or video.

It could also be powered off and be unresponsive to remote commands. (No green light blink with remote command)

A few more rare occurrences that require unplugging to reset.



What looks similar to the power on/off status light is the remote sensor. If that lights up red, contact DISH immediately.



Only the guide data for CBS operated channels and sub-channels.
The default guide data is a collection of individual data sent from each station that you can tune.
The section in the user guide about an optional mode for TVGOS or Guide Plus does not apply to your usage.
The unit can substitute the time signal from a particular station for all other tuned stations time signal where the unit senses a TVGOS signal. (Usually CBS)



I occasionally witness temporary lip synch issues on various digital tuners that seems to be from the broadcast source.



You do not need to be concerned at all about "being ready" or missing maintenance because you were using the unit when it would have normally occurred.
My prior post states that maintenance mode is used to refresh the guide, clock time and scan for new channels if you don't use the unit regularly.

Whenever you are actively using the unit, the clock time and guide info is constantly updated in the background.
So even though you may have missed a scheduled maintenance, you don't need it because you were just actively using the unit.
All you missed was a scan for new channels. Furthermore, the next time you power on the unit, the guide data and clock time are refreshed.

The only time to be concerned about getting enough maintenance is if you leave the unit on (inactivity standby disabled) and don't actively use it,
then the time may drift and the guide data may become stale.

Beeper what is the current Newest firmware? 106 or 107? thanks
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post #274 of 401 Old 04-21-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

So, the PP occassionally gets stuck doing the guide download? Great!! Another example of "buyer/operator beware!"

If you do end up using an inactivity standby setting (other than disabled), there is another "beware" not covered in the user guide if you are setting multiple events.

You must make sure that the inactivity standby setting (length) meets or exceeds the included time length starting from the first event timer power on,
through the end of your last event. Adjust it to suit your typical usage.

Example:
You set a timer to power on the unit at 5:00 PM for an event. This will start the inactivity standby countdown.

You set a second timer for an 8:30 PM event running for 90 minutes in length.

The event timer will not power off the unit. The end time only checks for conflicts with the next event.
The inactivity standby will power off the unit regardless of a timed event being active.
A new timed event does not reset the inactivity standby timer, unless it powers on the unit.


So in the above example, the total time that you would like the unit powered on is at least 5 hours. (5:00 to 10:00)
If you had the inactivity standby setting at 4 hours, the unit would have powered itself off at 9:00 PM and you would have missed the last hour of the 8:30 event.
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post #275 of 401 Old 04-21-2009, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexus2108 View Post

Beeper what is the current Newest firmware? 106 or 107? thanks

The newest that I know of is F106. The first release of the DTVPal Plus was F106 and it hasn't changed yet.

The first Plus' were China and now I see mostly Mexico (with lower serial #'s). When those run low maybe new firmware?

Since you have a coupon in hand, I would wait a month. You never know when new firmware may be released.
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post #276 of 401 Old 04-21-2009, 02:08 PM
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The inactivity issue is also a problem with the Zinwell (970, 970A, & 950A).
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post #277 of 401 Old 04-21-2009, 09:43 PM
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Regarding the inactivity issue with Zinwell as stated in an earlier post, my understanding is that the "sleep timer" begins at the most recent activity. Thus, you could have programmed the Zinwell to turn off after 4 hours, and have the box "wake up" at 1pm, tape for 2 hours, and have another wakeup take place at 3:30pm for a second taping (event timer scheduling that is). The 4 hour sleep time setting would begin at 3:30pm. With the PP, it appears that the "countdown" begins at the first sign of activity.

The good news regarding my PP - after 12 hours of it being turned off, I turned it on, and instead of seeing the view of a tv station, I saw that familiar display referring to the PP downloading the program guide, which would take a few minutes. I saw the "timing bar," and within a second I saw activity in the bar as though the download was beginning. After about 10 to 15 seconds, the timing bar had been completely highlighted indicating that the download was complete. Nothing happened for about a second or two, and I thought, "here we go again," but instead, that display disappeared and was replaced by the picture of the tv station.

As beeper said, the download took about 15 seconds.

I discovered something else that is different with the PP vs. the Insignia and the Zinwell, which I don't think is an improvement. When a station has been deleted from the listing of stations, the user CANNOT manually select that station by entering its number into the remote as can be done with the Insignia and the Zinwell.

One purpose of deleting a station is to avoid having that station appear when using the channel up/down buttons. With the PP, it appears that deleting a station also removes that station's listings on the tv guide. For example, I did not want to view subchannel 16-2, but did want to keep 16-1 in memory. I deleted 16-2, and when I selected 0162 on the remote (and also in the "add a channel" option, followed by "done", it did not go to that station. Entering in a subchannel number by way of the remote that had been deleted or removed from the listing of channels on the Insignia and Zinwell would have resulted in accessing that station. A channel can be added back in on the PP by selecting "scan" from the "stop" mode in the "add a channel" menu screen. It would be helpful to be able to have a channel of choice be displayed if it was punched in to the remote for the few times a user may want to watch a channel, as was my case with the subchannel in question. It's not a big deal, just a convenience to not have certain stations appear everytime a channel up/down surfing mode is done.

Beeper did answer a question I was going to ask pertaining to why the number of minutes is listed for programmed events. I had viewed them as "wakeup" times as Zinwell calls them. I had thought that after a station has been "turned on," it stays on until the box turns itself off. I couldn't figure out why a time amount would be listed. Mitsubishi VCRs have a similar warning feature in that if a program is scheduled with a time that overlaps another programmed event, a flashing "red light" appears warning the user of a conflict. Such warnings prevent mishaps regarding programming.

A reference was made to unfreezing a stuck guide maintenance as only being accomplished by unpluggin the box. As I first posted, I was able to get past the "stuck" display of the completed programming guide maintenance by pressing the "select" button on the remote. (The message on the screen was, to "stop" the download process, hit the "select" button. The download had been completed, so when I pressed "select," the display disappeared and was replaced by the tv station the box had been previously tuned to.)

I am still a bit confused about the "maintenance" process as it pertains to the set being off or on and having the inactivity timer being disabled or enabled.

Here is my understanding ... the guide maintenance takes place automatically when the box is turned on, and if a station is being watched, the "refreshing" takes place transparently (unnoticed) in the background. If an event has been programmed, the box will turn on about 3 minutes before the event so as to give itself time to download the guide update. It may or may not get stuck.

If the inactivity timer is disabled, but the box is kept on, the guide download will still take place. If the box is turned off, maintenance will not take place, and if the box is kept turned off long enough, the time will not be accurate, but by turning the box on again to a CBS station will restore an accurate time.

My confusion on this issue is this ... the whole point of putting the box in a disabled inactivity timer mode is to AVOID the download from taking place when the powered off box is TURNED ON due to a desired programmed event.
(As what happened to me on my first event timer attempt which resulted in the box turning on but getting stuck with the guide download.)

I am still not sure if my understanding is correct regarding the box turning itself on automatically (even for just 15 seconds) to do the guide maintenance. Will the box turn itself on whether the inactivity timer setting has been disabled or not? I assume that disabling the inactivity timer will, in fact, disable any download from taking place. The confusion is that that phrase reminds me of a reference to simply having the box not go into any "sleep mode" or turn itself off, in that the power on/off will be chosen manually by the user. I don't understand why that phrase should be connected to the process of Dish downloading information. It would be clearer if the reference was to something that was identified with terms like "Enable Download/Disable Download."

Regarding the audio setting, I was watching a program that indicated that it was broadcasting in spanish also, so I modified the audio settings from primary to alternate, from stereo to mono, and various other combinations. No change resulted in hearing the "SAP" broadcast. I also changed the audio setting on my vcr to which the box is plugged into, to an SAP setting. Still I got the English broadcast. Is the "alternate" audio setting not supposed to pick up an SAP broadcast?

I am actually more interested in hearing the "alternative" station that the local PBS station broadcasts on to broadcast classical music. The station is not yet broadcasting on a strong digital signal yet (will be in June), but on the analog transmission, I can hear the classical music broadcast by switching my audio setting to "mono" from "stereo." I assume that once my PBS station broadcasts digitally only, by changing the audio setting to mono, I will hear that classical broadcast.

I have thought of a way to keep the "NOW, NOW!!" exclamation from appearing on the tape of a program I may want to keep (copied to another vcr) ... just set the program to go off at least one minute before the actual start time. By the time the program actually starts, the clock logo will no longer be flashing its glee of the program starting. Maybe the inclusion of the "NOW NOW!!" is meant to alert the user that the program is now beginning.

I am amazed at how "connected" the PP is, in that it downloads the guide information as it does without user intervention, and that the user can interact with the box to some degree in the search mode. I am also very pleased with the speed with which the box is able to display the visuals of a new station upon station changes, or responding to manually entered partiall station identifications on the remote (it completes what it thinks the user meant to type in the remote for a station).
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post #278 of 401 Old 04-21-2009, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

Regarding the inactivity issue with Zinwell as stated in an earlier post, my understanding is that the "sleep timer" begins at the most recent activity. Thus, you could have programmed the Zinwell to turn off after 4 hours, and have the box "wake up" at 1pm, tape for 2 hours, and have another wakeup take place at 3:30pm for a second taping (event timer scheduling that is). The 4 hour sleep time setting would begin at 3:30pm.

No, at least with my version 0830 Zinwell ZAT-970A, a second event at or before the shutoff from the first event does not restart the sleep timer, and in that example the box shuts off at 5 PM, not at 7:30 PM.  An event at 4:30 PM would be cut off in a half hour and one at 5 PM would end immediately.  Of course, an event at 5:01 PM would turn the unit on again until 9:01 PM.
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post #279 of 401 Old 04-22-2009, 06:25 AM
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Just to be clear - on the DTVPal series - inactivity is defined as no activity from the remote, no matter how many timers you have firing. Put that into your equations while setting up multiple events.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Being A Beacon of Knowledge in the darkness of FUD
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post #280 of 401 Old 04-22-2009, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

I discovered something else that is different with the PP vs. the Insignia and the Zinwell, which I don't think is an improvement. When a station has been deleted from the listing of stations, the user CANNOT manually select that station by entering its number into the remote as can be done with the Insignia and the Zinwell.

The difference is the Zenith/Insignia doesn't really delete a channel, it disables it and grays it out on the channel list.
The DTVPal actually removes the channel from the channel list.

The only work around with the DTVPal is to lock the channel that you don't watch regularly by adding it to the parental channel lock list.
It will be skipped using the remote channel up/down, and I think it is also removed from the guide.
You can then view it anytime after using your password.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

A reference was made to unfreezing a stuck guide maintenance as only being accomplished by unpluggin the box.

That only referred to your question regarding it freezing during maintenance mode, not at power on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

I am still a bit confused about the "maintenance" process as it pertains to the set being off or on and having the inactivity timer being disabled or enabled.

Here is my understanding ... the guide maintenance takes place automatically when the box is turned on, and if a station is being watched, the "refreshing" takes place transparently (unnoticed) in the background. If an event has been programmed, the box will turn on about 3 minutes before the event so as to give itself time to download the guide update. It may or may not get stuck.

Correct, other than the countdown is 2 minutes not 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

If the inactivity timer is disabled, but the box is kept on, the guide download will still take place. If the box is turned off, maintenance will not take place, and if the box is kept turned off long enough, the time will not be accurate, but by turning the box on again to a CBS station will restore an accurate time.

Maintenance mode can only be accessed when the unit is powered off. (Either manually or via the inactivity standby.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

My confusion on this issue is this ... the whole point of putting the box in a disabled inactivity timer mode is to AVOID the download from taking place when the powered off box is TURNED ON due to a desired programmed event.
(As what happened to me on my first event timer attempt which resulted in the box turning on but getting stuck with the guide download.)

I am still not sure if my understanding is correct regarding the box turning itself on automatically (even for just 15 seconds) to do the guide maintenance. Will the box turn itself on whether the inactivity timer setting has been disabled or not? I assume that disabling the inactivity timer will, in fact, disable any download from taking place. The confusion is that that phrase reminds me of a reference to simply having the box not go into any "sleep mode" or turn itself off, in that the power on/off will be chosen manually by the user. I don't understand why that phrase should be connected to the process of Dish downloading information. It would be clearer if the reference was to something that was identified with terms like "Enable Download/Disable Download."

The inactivity standby setting hasn't any effect on the guide download after the unit has been manually powered off.
The inactivity standby setting simply selects the time frame that the unit uses to power itself off.
The countdown starts from either an event timer powering on the unit or the last activity, which starts with the last use of the remote.
When disabled, it never powers off automatically.

The confusion is related to posts referring to earlier firmware, where there was a bug that resulted in the (power on) guide download tainting previously set event timers. The work around was to never power off the unit by disabling the inactivity standby.
If you would manually power off the unit and then power it on, you would still get the guide download.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

Regarding the audio setting, I was watching a program that indicated that it was broadcasting in spanish also, so I modified the audio settings from primary to alternate, from stereo to mono, and various other combinations. No change resulted in hearing the "SAP" broadcast.

Alternate audio through the digital broadcast may not be active at all stations at this time.
Some stations in my area work and some don't even though SAP is working through the analog broadcast.
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post #281 of 401 Old 04-22-2009, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

Just to be clear - on the DTVPal series - inactivity is defined as no activity from the remote, no matter how many timers you have firing. Put that into your equations while setting up multiple events.

If someone is going to be present at the remote and the DTVPal to press a button and for the unit to receive a signal from the remote, that person can change the channel so that the recorder will get the right program.  The whole discussion is for what the machinery will do while no human is present.

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Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

The difference is the Zenith/Insignia doesn't really delete a channel, it disables it and grays it out on the channel list.

If you delete the station through the Manual Tuning (thanks, Beeper -- not "Manual Edit" as I had originally typed) function, then the channel is truly deleted.
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post #282 of 401 Old 04-22-2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

If someone is going to be present at the remote and the DTVPal to press a button and for the unit to receive a signal from the remote, that person can change the channel so that the recorder will get the right program.* The whole discussion is for what the machinery will do while no human is present

I'm just pointing out that the inactivity timer may bite you when you're setting up your timers.
Example - Let's say you have the inactivity timer set for 4 hours (the default). You setup a couple of timers - one at 8 PM, one at 11PM for 2 hours.

What will happen - (I'm assuming after you created your timers, you powered off the DTVPal) - It will come on so you can get your 8PM show. Then it will stay on. At 11PM, if necessary, it changes channel to that show. At Midnight, it will power off since it has had 4 hours of inactivity at the remote, thereby cutting off half of your 2 hour 11PM recording.

This is what I'm talking about needing to take the inactivity timer into account when creating your timers.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Being A Beacon of Knowledge in the darkness of FUD
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post #283 of 401 Old 04-22-2009, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

... on the DTVPal series - inactivity is defined as no activity from the remote, no matter how many timers you have firing.
Put that into your equations while setting up multiple events.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

If someone is going to be present at the remote and the DTVPal to press a button and for the unit to receive a signal from the remote, that person can change the channel so that the recorder will get the right program.* The whole discussion is for what the machinery will do while no human is present.

The whole discussion has pertained to attended and unattended usage.

1. Your dog could step on the remote when jumping up on the couch to watch TV. (If you also have a cat, the dog will get the blame.)
2. You could set event timers, then continue to use the tuner for awhile and forget to power off the unit when you leave.
3. You could have multiple event timers set and return home and use the remote between events and then leave.
4. Your 4 year old could commandeer and fire the remote without your knowledge.

When the remote was last used could affect unattended usage whenever the unit's power remains on.
Scooper was correct in considering that in your calculations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

If you delete the station through the Manual Edit function, then the channel is truly deleted.

Not to add to the confusion, my answer centered on mr100watt stating, "When a station has been deleted from the listing of stations".
I believe he was referring to using the "Channel edit" feature.

You really meant the menu's "Manual tuning" function where you can completely delete a channel.
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post #284 of 401 Old 04-22-2009, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

1. Your dog could step on the remote when jumping up on the couch to watch TV. (If you also have a cat, the dog will get the blame.)
2. You could set event timers, then continue to use the tuner for awhile and forget to power off the unit when you leave.
3. You could have multiple event timers set and return home and use the remote between events and then leave.
4. Your 4 year old could commandeer and fire the remote without your knowledge.

#1 and #4 are preventable; #2 and #3, yes, those are valid.

Quote:


You really meant the menu's "Manual tuning" function [on the Zenith/Insignia units] where you can completely delete a channel.

Yes, Manual Tuning is the right name; thank you for the correction.
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post #285 of 401 Old 04-22-2009, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

...
Not to add to the confusion, my answer centered on mr100watt stating, "When a station has been deleted from the listing of stations".
I believe he was referring to using the "Channel edit" feature.

You really meant the menu's "Manual tuning" function where you can completely delete a channel.

Yes, that is a more accurate description of what I was referring to with the Insignia and Zinwell - removal of station appearance by way of channel editing. I have yet to find such a feature on the PP - if I don't want to see a station's number show up during channel surfing, I had to delete it. I don't speak Spanish, so I had no need to have the few Spanish only stations show up while surfing. A few other stations have only a few programs of interest and I thought it more advantageous to punch them in by way of the remote as needed. With the PP, that option doesn't seem available.

If as I read through the most recent posts, my responses in this post have already been addressed I will edit this post.

I am reading BACKWARDS through this thread as I attempt to catch up on posts since my last one. (backwards? don't ask!!)

Today I thought of a way to get around waiting for the PP to do the "guide download" upon turning on the box after an entire day of being turned off. If it hasn't done maintenance during the day, to avoid the short delay of that process, I thought if I program the box to turn on every day for about one hour when I am away, then perhaps it would download the guide at that time, so when I come home from work in the evening, when I turn the box on, it will have already performed the download and I can watch what I want without any concern for an interruption prior to the beginning of a program, or an event timed show.
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post #286 of 401 Old 04-23-2009, 05:17 AM
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If you can afford the timer setting to do that and there is a particular program you watch every night, why not set the timer to fire for that program?
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post #287 of 401 Old 04-23-2009, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

Today I thought of a way to get around waiting for the PP to do the "guide download" upon turning on the box after an entire day of being turned off. If it hasn't done maintenance during the day, to avoid the short delay of that process, I thought if I program the box to turn on every day for about one hour when I am away, then perhaps it would download the guide at that time, so when I come home from work in the evening, when I turn the box on, it will have already performed the download and I can watch what I want without any concern for an interruption prior to the beginning of a program, or an event timed show.

That won't make any difference in receiving the routine 15 second guide download when it is powered on. (See exception below.)
If it did maintenance 15 minutes before you power it on, it will still do the guide download.
The guide download (at power on) is redundant if your unit is allowed to enter the maintenance mode.

If you don't want to wait for the guide download when you power it on, stop it with the remote.
I don't think you'll notice to many ill effects when you stop the guide download at power on.
Some stations may show "No Information" in the guide until you tune them or move past them in the guide. Try it, you'll see.

The guide info will be somewhat fresh from the last time it did maintenance.
And when you start using the unit, it will refresh guide info in the background.
It should do maintenance a few times during the day and a few more during the night.

(Exception) You may not get the guide download at power on if the unit was recently being used and you power it on shortly after.

Also try adding some channels that you don't use regularly, to the "channel lock" list and see if that works for you.
You will have to take time to go into the menu and unlock it to view them or see them in the guide.

Locking channels can also be helpful if you delete channels that you never watch or sometimes receive, only to see them return
after a maintenance mode channel scan. Locking them will keep them out of sight.
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post #288 of 401 Old 04-23-2009, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

I am reading BACKWARDS through this thread as I attempt to catch up on posts since my last one. (backwards? don't ask!!)

?sdrawkcab daer ot reisae ti ekam siht seoD
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post #289 of 401 Old 04-23-2009, 11:21 AM
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post #290 of 401 Old 04-23-2009, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

?sdrawkcab daer ot reisae ti ekam siht seoD

Yes, much moreso than the mirror that I was using!

I had my tv and box turned off all day, and 24 hours later I turned on both and had to wait 10 to 15 seconds for the "guide download" before my station was viewed. This is the reason why I thought setting an event timer for early evening might be helpful, but as you said, the download can be done several times at various time of the day.

I also remember you saying that the download takes place "in the background" when the user is watching tv. Is it that the download takes place NOTICED when one is watching (trying to) tv when the set is turned ON, and later while a station has already been tuned in the download takes place again?

I do not have the inactivity timer disabled, so I had expected that whenever I am turning my set on that the PP has had time to do its maintenance and be ready to display a station as needed.

I don't have any regular programs I watch that I would want the event timer tuned into every day. My point was to have the box turn on at times I am NOT using the box, so when I do want to watch tv, I don't have to see the guide download displayed on the screen before the station I am trying to watch appears.

Thanks for the locking of stations suggestion. I read in the manual of how to "reset a forgotten" password. Has this worked for you? I have yet to enter any password. I'd hate to be locked out forever! It's late here and I am trying to recall the difference between simply deleting the station and then manually reentering it through the "add a chanel" option, vs. locking the station and then having to go through the delocking steps to reenable it. I'd think that both methods would keep the station from being displayed in the guide and selected through the remote channel button, and that neither would be faster than another.
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post #291 of 401 Old 04-24-2009, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

I also remember you saying that the download takes place "in the background" when the user is watching tv. Is it that the download takes place NOTICED when one is watching (trying to) tv when the set is turned ON, and later while a station has already been tuned in the download takes place again?

Stations continuously send PSIP guide data. (Every 2 seconds or so for the upfront data)
Any time you tune a particular station, you receive guide data from that station.
When you enter the guide, it seems to find the latest guide data from all stations as you move up/down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr100watt View Post

Thanks for the locking of stations suggestion. I read in the manual of how to "reset a forgotten" password. Has this worked for you? I have yet to enter any password. I'd hate to be locked out forever! It's late here and I am trying to recall the difference between simply deleting the station and then manually reentering it through the "add a chanel" option, vs. locking the station and then having to go through the delocking steps to reenable it. I'd think that both methods would keep the station from being displayed in the guide and selected through the remote channel button, and that neither would be faster than another.

I haven't tried resetting a password. The first time you try locking the unit, it will ask for a 4 digit password.
I input 4 zeros (for multiple users), or a 4 number PIN that I remember.

When you initially add stations to the lock list, select "yes" to hide locked channels.
When you want to view them, go to the locks menu and input your password. No need to change the hide yes/no setting.
This is definitely faster than adding even one channel, and then deleting it again to hide it.

The quickest way to lock or unlock without even looking at the screen:
To lock or hide, enter menu, 3,1,1, password, (password again to confirm.), view.
To unlock, enter menu, 3,1, password, 1, view.
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post #292 of 401 Old 04-24-2009, 08:01 AM
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how would everyone rate their DTVPAL Plus? I just ordered one from solidsignal and it should be here tomorrow. I had an Apex 250 and that was garbage, it wouldnt tune 2 of my channels i get 50% or higher signal strength on my HDTV. I am hoping this will work for me.
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post #293 of 401 Old 04-24-2009, 08:24 AM
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The DTVPal Plus should perform better at acquiring stations. Don't expect it to perform miracles though. When it comes to Signal Strength, you may need to rework your antenna and distribution system.
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post #294 of 401 Old 04-24-2009, 08:56 AM
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Now that the clock problems have stabilized somewhat after the prolonged DST transition, I decided to revisit using the DTVPal Plus in TVGOS mode to convert TVGOS data received from my local digital CBS station into analog form for my Toshiba ASTC/NTSC TV that uses only analog signals for the TVGOS -- and it seems to be working. And it should work after June 12th.

I set up the DTVPal Plus emulating a Scientific Atlanta cable box according to the manual on input one, and my OTA antennas on input two. I used the zip code from the DTVPAL Plus manual for the TVGOS setup on the TV, and the zip code for the local CBS station on the DTVPal Plus. I left the TV set on input one overnight, and the TVGOS system did get downloads overnight from the digital CBS station via the DTVPal Plus. The TV also locked on the input one so that I could not receive anything on input two, probably due the state the TV was left in after the many experiments I had done during the clock problems. I reset the TV by unplugging it and plugging it back in, and input two started working. The next morning the TVGOS had reset itself and asked for the cable provider again. I selected Comcast, as I had better luck with that than "No Match" in earlier experiments. The listings instantly appeared, although the channel lineup was reduced from a thousand to around 700 with the cable channels -- And, I have received TVGOS downloads for the last two nights successfully, with the TV working normally.

I had to do a lot of editing in the channel editor to turn off the cable channels, but I am able to receive HD broadcasts normally from input two using the ATSC tuner.

One key point is that the the TVGOS host channel found by the TV in the Scientific Atlanta scheme is channel 190. The digital ATSC CBS channel would be 191, as the virtual channel number of the CBS station in Washington, DC is 9.1 -- Scientific Atlanta drops the decimal and adds 100 to the virtual channel numbers, so channel 09.1 becomes 191 on the DTVPal Plus. This may be key to getting it to work. Channel 190 may be the basic data stream including the HD subchannel and the SD subchannels as well as the SCTE 127 data carrying the TVGOS information to be converted and inserted into the analog VBI data output by the DTVPAL Plus. Channel 191 may only have the HD subchannel data.
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post #295 of 401 Old 04-27-2009, 01:58 PM
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I still have problems. I see the TVGOS on my DTVPal+ guide but my g-link isn't working (light blinks but doesn't change channels) and its not downloading to my Panasonic RV75 either (I'm sure they are related). Tech support seems to have no idea. Anybody else able to get theirs to work with the Panasonic?
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post #296 of 401 Old 04-28-2009, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASG82 View Post

I still have problems. I see the TVGOS on my DTVPal+ guide but my g-link isn't working (light blinks but doesn't change channels) and its not downloading to my Panasonic RV75 either (I'm sure they are related). Tech support seems to have no idea. Anybody else able to get theirs to work with the Panasonic?

Mine works with my Panasonic DMR-EH50 - the first Scientific Atlanta code(8) -
I do recall that one of the times setting it up (I've cycled back and forth between the PBS analog feed and looking for the SCTE-127 data on CBS)
I had to cycle through a couple of Scientific Atlanta codes before it started changing channels. So you might try each of the SA codes and go back to beginning. No idea why it happened and it was only the 1 time.
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post #297 of 401 Old 04-30-2009, 12:52 AM
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The manual isn't clear, and I would rather not buy, test, and probably return a unit to find out.  So if someone who has or has had a DTVPal Plus can answer, that would help tremendously; thank you.

Does the DTVPal Plus output the channel to which it is tuned through the A/V ports while analog passthrough is on (like the Zinwell, Magnavox, and Philips boxes) or is the output absent on the A/V ports while passthrough is available (like the Zenith, Insignia, Digital Stream, and Venturer boxes)?

My aim is to record one ATSC channel on an old NTSC-only VCR, using the composite output of a CECB to the A/V in of the VCR, while passing the RF signal through the CECB to a television with its own ATSC tuner.  The setup works with both the Zinwell ZAT-970A and the Magnavox TB100MG9, but both of those boxes leave something to be desired.
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post #298 of 401 Old 04-30-2009, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post


Does the DTVPal Plus output the channel to which it is tuned through the A/V ports while analog passthrough is on ....

The Pal Plus functions the same as what was previously reported for the original DTVPal.

No composite output while in APT, other than a little audio hiss.
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post #299 of 401 Old 04-30-2009, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rec630 View Post

Has anyone read if the Plus will be sold at the retailers like Sears?

Maybe if I wait, the TR40-CRA Plus will show up and I can save $20...

Being sold at Sears (I heard) and Kmart (I seen) right now
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post #300 of 401 Old 04-30-2009, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

No composite output while in APT, other than a little audio hiss.

Thank you.  You just saved me two trips to K-Mart (one to buy it and then one to return it in disappointment).
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