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post #31 of 40 Old 11-08-2008, 11:28 AM
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I'm all for that. In my area anyway their are many unused channel numbers and I believe with digital they can broadcast one right next to the other. Unlike analog where the needed to separated by a unused channel.
My inlaws love the ION channel. 4 SD channels on one frequency, although the ION life channel tends to macroblock when they have a high quality source and fast movement(viewed on a HDTV). More static images look fine though.
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post #32 of 40 Old 11-08-2008, 01:05 PM
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I think we're only going to see this aspect of DTV improve over the next few years. Encoders will continue to get better (and hopefully stations will continue to keep current), and stations will continue to get more creative in their offerings on the subchannels.

Quite honestly, the downturn in the economy probably could not have come at a better time for broadcasters, as I've heard from a number of people that have dropped cable and satellite once they discovered 24 kids programming with DTV. In the Twin Cities, we have 2 subchannels with kids programs around the clock (PBSKids and qubo). If people can see enough value in it now, plus the future potential for more free programming, they might jump ship and save the $40 or $50 per month.

I'd be interested to see if over time broadcasters might start to fight the educational programming requirements using subchannels as a way to offer more of it on a targetted subchannel that fulfills the requirement for the station overall.
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post #33 of 40 Old 11-08-2008, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by lexus2108 View Post

I would agree they should add separate sub stations channel. For example ABC is on 7.1 we also have 7.2 7.3 If they moved the subs to lets say 16.1 16.2 16.3 16.4 ect. Call it ABC Plus or ABC Extra.

This would keep the original network shows at great PQ and give the choice of other things to watch with commercials.

I give Milwaukee credit for at least doing that with their PBS HD and SD channels.
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post #34 of 40 Old 11-08-2008, 03:16 PM
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Same here in MSP although PBS HD does have 1 sub channel, regular PBS. While PBS HD doesn't seem to suffer, the regular PBS doesn't look too hot(quite bad macroblocking at times). In fact I get better PQ on analog PBS than digital SD PBS. I'll be a little bummed when analog goes away although analog PBS is really the only analog channel I watch anymore. And for those who don't know, PBS HD had different programming than regular PBS although they do simulcast quite a bit.
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post #35 of 40 Old 11-09-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I'm all for that. In my area anyway their are many unused channel numbers and I believe with digital they can broadcast one right next to the other. Unlike analog where the needed to separated by a unused channel.......

As someone else pointed out earlier, be careful what you wish for. Some studies are showing DTV tuners aren't living up to this expectation.

From:

http://broadcastengineering.com/RF/F...ence-20070419/

Quote:


Tested DTV tuners don’t achieve ATSC interference rejection mark, says report
....
snip
....
If looking at worst and second-worst performance, the DTV receivers “are actually more susceptible to interference from second-adjacent channels than from first-adjacent channels,” which is a contradiction of OET-69 and ATSC Receiver Guidelines assumptions.

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post #36 of 40 Old 11-09-2008, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Same here in MSP although PBS HD does have 1 sub channel, regular PBS. While PBS HD doesn't seem to suffer, the regular PBS doesn't look too hot(quite bad macroblocking at times). In fact I get better PQ on analog PBS than digital SD PBS. I'll be a little bummed when analog goes away although analog PBS is really the only analog channel I watch anymore. And for those who don't know, PBS HD had different programming than regular PBS although they do simulcast quite a bit.

you can go to TVfool.com and type in your address or area. It will give you an option to see what will happen to the channels in 2009

In other words you find your PBS station in digital broadcast. You then click on the 2009 link.

You look on the bottom graph to see if the - DB goes up. For example -50 db in 2008 and -34 db in 2009. That means they are planing to turn up the digital power and you will get a stronger signal for that channel. Thus solving your bad picture on PBS problem.

In my aunts area more then half the channels are getting a power bump.

Also the fact that Analog will be turned off (not LP stations) for the most part means less crowing and a better picture.

I guess you can wait to see what will happen in 2009. Of course I liked tvfool.com I print the 2008 list then the 2009 and compare who is boosting power. The lower the -DB the better signal.
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post #37 of 40 Old 11-09-2008, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexus2108 View Post

You look on the bottom graph to see if the - DB goes up. For example -50 db in 2008 and -34 db in 2009. That means they are planing to turn up the digital power and you will get a stronger signal for that channel. Thus solving your bad picture on PBS problem.

You completely missed the point of his post. His signal is fine, but they're compressing the hell out of the SD analog simulcast to make the HD picture look better. The problem is that the 24/7 HD loop has a lot of repeats and doesn't follow the local schedule.

The national PBS-HD feed goes away on 02/17/09, so chances are the local PBS feed will end up in HD, with the programming in HD when available and with sidebars when it's in SD only, as the commercial network stations already do.

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post #38 of 40 Old 11-09-2008, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess the difference is my aunt has a 20" Tv and so we do not see any difference in any channel. That must be it
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post #39 of 40 Old 11-09-2008, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

The national PBS-HD feed goes away on 02/17/09, so chances are the local PBS feed will end up in HD, with the programming in HD when available and with sidebars when it's in SD only, as the commercial network stations already do.

They do that on the HD Milwaukee channel now (they recently changed it, as it used to be just PBS-HD). The only bad part is they use stretch-o-vision on some of the SD material. I was watching the McLaughlin Report like that last night. They've only used it on talking head programs so far, so it hasn't been that bad.

Here in Chicago, we have the HD channel, then the first (of 3) sub(s) is the local version. I would hope they would just go with the new, combination main channel and the two remaining subs, and distribute the bits back to those, but experience tells me not to get my hopes up.
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post #40 of 40 Old 11-09-2008, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexus2108 View Post

My aunt would enjoy these stations

She'd probably just love cable or DBS, they have dozens of 'stations'.....

Take further discussion to the 'subchannels' topic.

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