Can someone please look and see which CECB's have these features? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 04-17-2009, 02:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I've wasted so much time on this I'm frustrated beyond belief. All websites I've seen are loaded with so much erroneous information, or "unknown" that it's a waste of time to continue to look. That includes the Wiki page that's loaded with wrong info, and mostly "Unknown". Can anyone please tell me which CECB's have the following:
  • Analog pass-thru
  • S-video
  • Smart antenna
  • EPG of at least 12 hours
  • External power supply (so it can be powered by batteries or car)
  • Some kind of auto aspect ratio
  • VCR timer would be nice but not mandatory

I see this thread, but it's 63 pages long, and I see post #8 but I can't read a .xls file (my MSworks won't open it). I saw this post but it's over a year old.

Thanks.

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #2 of 43 Old 04-17-2009, 04:11 AM
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I think smart antenna capability is the limiting feature, because only a handful or fewer of these boxes have it. Try a forum search for the word "smart".
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post #3 of 43 Old 04-17-2009, 05:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtbell View Post

I think smart antenna capability is the limiting feature, because only a handful or fewer of these boxes have it. Try a forum search for the word "smart".

Thanks for replying. Do you know if you have to buy a special ("smart") antenna for that function to work or will it work with any antenna?

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-Clint
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post #4 of 43 Old 04-17-2009, 05:59 AM
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By requiring S-Video and Smart-Antenna with an external power supply, your choices become none. Either give up the S-Video or the external power supply.

If you give up the external power supply, the APEX DT502 is the only CECB that fits your requirements.

Why do you say the WIKI information is incorrect?
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post #5 of 43 Old 04-17-2009, 06:23 AM
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You won't find a nice list of features for the 192 boxes the NTIA thinks are out there. If you mean you want to know what boxes have these features separately, the only relatively accurate list is for the APT feature. The NITA's list of CECB-eligible boxes marks APT boxes with an asterisk.

Except for the fact that somebody recently messed up the Wiki columns, that is about as good as it gets for a comprehensive list identifying Smart and S-Vid features, as these are popular but uncommon features generally mentioned in the rarely existent market specs. Once somebody fixes the offset data, Wiki columns are fully sortable; click on the symbol next to the column header. You'll likely find decent data on the popular, readily available boxes. It's sure more than I know, since I haven't kept up. A lot of the "unk" crept in when the NTIA did not distinguish between available and vaporware. The NTIA is still is not entirely right about availability.

For event timers, your choice is Dish TR40-CRA/DTVPal/DTVPal Plus, and Zinwell Zat 970 and (I think) 950. If those Zat model numbers have an "A" at the end, they have APT.

The Smart antenna needs some product maturation. Or some would say, some product. The one on the market has mixed reviews, others in development dropped out or have been silent. The skeptic in me decided that by the time the bugs are worked out, the interface will have changed. That, and we'll all have HDTVs.
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post #6 of 43 Old 04-17-2009, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

By requiring S-Video and Smart-Antenna with an external power supply, your choices become none. Either give up the S-Video or the external power supply.

No, there are some out there with both S-video and the smart antenna. But they lack at least one of the other features.


Quote:


If you give up the external power supply, the APEX DT502 is the only CECB that fits your requirements.

I was looking at some Apex units, but like every other manufacturer's website, they lack information. Would you happen to know what is the difference between the DT250A & DT250, and the DT502A & DT502? And how the 250 units differ from the 502's?
http://www.apexdigitalinc.com/proddi...rter%20Box&c=2
They don't even list the 502A, and for the 250 units they don't mention how they differ, and the manual is for the 250. (The 502 has no VCR timer, but that's not a huge thing).


Quote:


Why do you say the WIKI information is incorrect?

Because it just is. I checked into many of those models they list, and the info they give for many of them is incorrect. (Plus most are listed with numerous "Unknown" next to them).

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #7 of 43 Old 04-17-2009, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

You won't find a nice list of features for the 192 boxes the NTIA thinks are out there. If you mean you want to know what boxes have these features separately, the only relatively accurate list is for the APT feature. The NITA's list of CECB-eligible boxes marks APT boxes with an asterisk.

Yeah so I've noticed so far. ATP is about the only thing they regularly list.


Quote:


Except for the fact that somebody recently messed up the Wiki columns,

Maybe that's what's wrong with the page (if you mean that "mess up" is inclusive of all of the "unknown"'s and incorrect info).


Quote:


that is about as good as it gets for a comprehensive list identifying Smart and S-Vid features, as these are popular but uncommon features generally mentioned in the rarely existent market specs. Once somebody fixes the offset data, Wiki columns are fully sortable; click on the symbol next to the column header. You'll likely find decent data on the popular, readily available boxes. It's sure more than I know, since I haven't kept up.

But they're still going to have the issue of dozens and dozens of "unknown" shown in the list. The unknown's are even there for popular models.


Quote:


For event timers, your choice is Dish TR40-CRA/DTVPal/DTVPal Plus, and Zinwell Zat 970 and (I think) 950. If those Zat model numbers have an "A" at the end, they have APT.

And they have no smart antenna or S-video. I fail to understand why a manufacturer can't come out with a full-featured box.


Quote:


The Smart antenna needs some product maturation. Or some would say, some product. The one on the market has mixed reviews, others in development dropped out or have been silent. The skeptic in me decided that by the time the bugs are worked out, the interface will have changed. That, and we'll all have HDTVs.

There is only one smart antenna on the market?? About how much are they?
Thanks.

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #8 of 43 Old 04-17-2009, 06:58 AM
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I just spent some time on the WIKI site and see that some idiot tried to condense the code by using "ROWSPAN" throughout the HTML. By doing this they destroyed the column sort feature. I tested it with the Access items and they are now fixed. There should be no "ROWSPAN" code and 14 lines per entry.

I've got other things to do right now, so I'll try to get back to it later. If anyone else wants to help clean the list up, I would be grateful for the help.

NOTE: All the offset columns are due to my deleting all the "ROWSPAN=2" entries and will require a line entry from the item entry above it (ie. Dish or Coship, etc.).
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post #9 of 43 Old 04-17-2009, 07:01 AM
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The DT502A is not available.

Do not purchase the DT250 or DT250A. They are lacking when compared to the DT502.
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post #10 of 43 Old 04-17-2009, 07:04 AM
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The RCA models also have Smart-Antenna.
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post #11 of 43 Old 04-17-2009, 08:47 AM
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SolidSignal: DTA5000 $90, indoor RCA ANT2000, $50. Reading the AVS reviews talked me out of a smart antenna.
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post #12 of 43 Old 04-17-2009, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, I have to go for the day but I'll read over these tonight.

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #13 of 43 Old 04-19-2009, 01:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

The DT502A is not available.

Do not purchase the DT250 or DT250A. They are lacking when compared to the DT502.

So what exactly are they lacking? I looked at the manuals for both, but couldn't find the major differences, however it was the 250 that actually seemed like it had more features than the 502! At least that was how the manuals presented it.

You can't add new channels on the 502 without wiping the entire current list, correct? According to Wiki, that's not an issue on the 250. Or is that another error?

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #14 of 43 Old 04-19-2009, 01:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

I just spent some time on the WIKI site and see that some idiot tried to condense the code by using "ROWSPAN" throughout the HTML. By doing this they destroyed the column sort feature. I tested it with the Access items and they are now fixed. There should be no "ROWSPAN" code and 14 lines per entry.

I've got other things to do right now, so I'll try to get back to it later. If anyone else wants to help clean the list up, I would be grateful for the help.

NOTE: All the offset columns are due to my deleting all the "ROWSPAN=2" entries and will require a line entry from the item entry above it (ie. Dish or Coship, etc.).

Sounds like something I would say, LOL. I know basic HTML, but not much about the 'rowspan' tag.

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #15 of 43 Old 04-19-2009, 01:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

The RCA models also have Smart-Antenna.

Do you mean the jack, or they actually come with a smart antenna?

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #16 of 43 Old 04-19-2009, 01:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

SolidSignal: DTA5000 $90, indoor RCA ANT2000, $50. Reading the AVS reviews talked me out of a smart antenna.

They're not worth it? Do you happen to remember the location of the reviews?

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #17 of 43 Old 04-19-2009, 01:36 PM
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There's always the search function.
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post #18 of 43 Old 04-19-2009, 05:13 PM
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The DT502 has better firmware except for the "Channel Add" function. It finds and holds more stations and has a reminder feature (similar to timers). See associated threads for the DT250, DT502, and EPG's.

The DT502 EPG is based on the same one used by GE, Goodmind, Sunkey, & Zentech DF2000.
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post #19 of 43 Old 04-19-2009, 05:15 PM
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I don't know of any CECB that comes with a Smart-Antenna. When referencing the Smart-Antenna (while talking about any particular CECB), the reference is to the jack.
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post #20 of 43 Old 04-19-2009, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

They're not worth it? Do you happen to remember the location of the reviews?

I read reviews on this forum. As Rammitinski says, Google Search AVS: smart antenna


Search is near the top of the page. Here's the official smart antenna thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008952



If you were asking whether any CECBs come with smart antennas, the answer is no. CECB rules state no bundling of antenna with the box.
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post #21 of 43 Old 04-19-2009, 06:45 PM
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The WIKI page has been repaired. If anyone sees any issues, please let me know.
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post #22 of 43 Old 04-20-2009, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

The DT502 has better firmware except for the "Channel Add" function. It finds and holds more stations and has a reminder feature (similar to timers). See associated threads for the DT250, DT502, and EPG's.

The DT502 EPG is based on the same one used by GE, Goodmind, Sunkey, & Zentech DF2000.

Thanks. So is there any way to add a channel to the 502 without wiping its memory?

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #23 of 43 Old 04-20-2009, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

I read reviews on this forum. As Rammitinski says, Google Search AVS: smart antenna

Search is near the top of the page. Here's the official smart antenna thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008952

If you were asking whether any CECBs come with smart antennas, the answer is no. CECB rules state no bundling of antenna with the box.

Yes, thanks.

God Bless,
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post #24 of 43 Old 04-20-2009, 01:50 PM
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Not unless someone knows how to hack the firmware or Apex updates it. As far as I know, no one has tried using a Smart-Antenna with the DT502 to see if that will bring up the channel add ability.
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post #25 of 43 Old 04-21-2009, 05:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

Not unless someone knows how to hack the firmware or Apex updates it. As far as I know, no one has tried using a Smart-Antenna with the DT502 to see if that will bring up the channel add ability.

Is that in response to my post #22? (Please use the quote button. )

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post #26 of 43 Old 04-21-2009, 08:55 AM
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There's no need to use quote, unless you can't relate to the last post or two.
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post #27 of 43 Old 04-21-2009, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

There's no need to use quote, unless you can't relate to the last post or two.

I disagree.  For one thing, forum readers can't read your mind to know which earlier post you're answering if you neither quote nor provide context.  For another, you can never be positive that another AVSForum member posting to the same thread won't get his/her message in a fraction of a second ahead of you, separating your new post from the one that you're answering.
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post #28 of 43 Old 04-22-2009, 01:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

I disagree. For one thing, forum readers can't read your mind to know which earlier post you're answering if you neither quote nor provide context.* For another, you can never be positive that another AVSForum member posting to the same thread won't get his/her message in a fraction of a second ahead of you, separating your new post from the one that you're answering.

Exactly! Thank you, just what I was going to say. Not using a quote like AOL'ers. There is no confusion and no mistakes if one clicks "Quote", plus that link is right next to "Quick Reply" so why not just click "Quote". It doesn't matter of course if one is not replying to anything specific.

And I still don't know if you (systems2000) were replying to my post #22.

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post #29 of 43 Old 04-22-2009, 01:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

The DT502 has better firmware except for the "Channel Add" function. It finds and holds more stations and has a reminder feature (similar to timers). See associated threads for the DT250, DT502, and EPG's.

The DT502 EPG is based on the same one used by GE, Goodmind, Sunkey, & Zentech DF2000.

I found a newer spreadsheet from Oct. 2008 and according to it the 250 has "poor PQ". That's all it says, no more explanation. It doesn't list that for the 502, so does anyone know about the PQ of the 502? And unfortunately, like the Wiki page the spreadsheet is full of blank areas and "?".
Thanks.

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #30 of 43 Old 04-22-2009, 05:36 AM
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I'm sorry, I've never requoted a previous post unless I was making a point of a specific statement and I don't see where it's going to change. Besides, it takes much longer for me to go through another page or two, than to just do a "Quick Post" and why would it be here, if it wasn't to be used?

Yes I was referring to the 2nd post prior to mine.

As for the PQ of the DT502, I have a problem with what is being defined as different levels of PQ, so I don't put my two cents worth in about it. I feel it can be very subjective.

If you've found a "newer spreadsheet," why didn't you give us a link to it?
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