Anyone with a converter being "denied" letterboxed output? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:20 AM
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Could not find the manual for the Zenith box but I found the manual for Insignia. Both Zenith and Insignia are made by LG if I'm not mistaken.


http://insigniaproducts.com/cms/docu...%20UM%20EN.pdf

The Insignia box only has 4:3 setting and 16:9 and I think auto setting.

So if you are having a problem with some channels like NBC, I think maybe the Digital Stream box is a better bet.
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:42 AM
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Everyone makes good points here, but it pays to think back to when the whole ATSC debacle was in its planning stages. Many have forgotten, the first few years of idealistic American DTV development referred to DTV specifically using HDTV terms and acronyms. Then one day, the numbskulls staged a coup and High Definition became a distant third or fourth "feature" instead of the primary motive behind dropping analog. The final acronym "ATSC" was an intentional fudging of definitions: they figured "Advanced" would imply "HDTV" while at the same time cover broadcasters true intentions of delivering crappy compromised DTV that looks as bad as analog SD, selling off their "spare" bandwidth for other purposes. This is how America works, warts and all: there is no socialist government agency "forcing" minimal HDTV standards here, as has been done in other countries. ATSC is crap, and will get worse long before it starts getting better. Too many Americans rely on cable or satellite, there aren't enough dedicated OTA people to rally behind the ATSC cause. Besides, cable/satellite users need AFD to avoid worse issues that would arise without it: you think you got problems with framing on a CECB, check your neighbors cable output.

As far as AFD and the CECB boxes go, its a wash. The feds mandated ATSC consumer hardware compliance before broadcasters had any clue of what their operations would be like once the switch actually got thrown. The result of that is many TVs, recorders and CECB boxes are not prepared to handle last minute alterations to things like AFD, so there are problems. Is it annoying? Absolutely. That doesn't mean we should all stay in the dark ages: AFD can be a good thing if implemented correctly. The broadcasters and hardware mfrs need to get their sh*t together so all are on the same page making the system work properly ("properly" meaning AFD frames the image intelligently for most viewers most of the time, with all hardware having over-ride controls for those with other preferences).

Despite current retail being 100% 16:9 TVs, there are still MILLIONS of 27" 4:3 Trinitrons, etc, in use as primary or secondary displays. Those sets have a life expectancy of 20 years. People are not going to just throw them away, and many of those who don't throw them away want to see a full screen. Thats another fact of American life: the majority rules. Whether you agree with them or not, most viewers using a 4:3 display are not the slightest bit interested in the dead unoccupied space at the edges of a 16:9 talk show or news broadcast. Hell, half the news footage today is captured by 4:3 consumer cellphones anyway. Most casual viewers find a "full" 4:3 screen has higher apparent resolution than letterboxed 4:3, so AFD is here to stay. If you don't like the way it works, make your voice heard to the networks and hardware mfrs.

Regarding the DTVpal: seriously people, what the hell did you expect? The damn thing has been ripped as a complete POS since the day it was previewed, hundreds of threads posted all over the internet bitching it out for the last two years. Thousands of users saying the same thing: "nice EPG, and thats it. Lousy picture, lousy controls, and melts down from no ventilation holes". In case no one's been paying attention, the EPG is another ATSC "feature" that was discarded along the way. Other than the DTVpal and a couple of hacked Zinwells, no TVs, recorders or boxes have an extended EPG. The EPG concept is dead, its gone, time to get over it: if you want it bad enough to tolerate the DTVpal, fine, but don't complain later that the DTVpal is useless for any other purpose.

Rammitinski has the right idea: don't buy a colossal screen expecting "true HDTV" all the time. Do research and be sure any TVs, boxes or recorders you buy have manual overrides of automated ATSC functions. Whenever possible, buy from places with solid "no questions asked" return/refund policies. Our DTV "transition" is far from over, it will take years to shake out, during that time many people will get burned buying the "wrong" hardware.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

In case no one's been paying attention, the EPG is another ATSC "feature" that was discarded along the way. Other than the DTVpal and a couple of hacked Zinwells, no TVs, recorders or boxes have an extended EPG. The EPG concept is dead, its gone, time to get over it: if you want it bad enough to tolerate the DTVpal, fine, but don't complain later that the DTVpal is useless for any other purpose.

The DTVPal is not the only CECB with EPG. There are different levels of EPG from a few hours to weeks (ie. APEX DT502 - Full EPG and descriptions). If you read through the EPG thread and check the WIKI website, you'll find others. The EPG system is also only as good as the EPG information being supplied by the station (some have some serious issues).
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Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

Do research and be sure any TVs, boxes or recorders you buy have manual overrides of automated ATSC functions. Whenever possible, buy from places with solid "no questions asked" return/refund policies. Our DTV "transition" is far from over, it will take years to shake out, during that time many people will get burned buying the "wrong" hardware.

I couldn't have said it better.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

Despite current retail being 100% 16:9 TVs, there are still MILLIONS of 27" 4:3 Trinitrons, etc, in use as primary or secondary displays. Those sets have a life expectancy of 20 years. People are not going to just throw them away, and many of those who don't throw them away want to see a full screen. Thats another fact of American life: the majority rules. Whether you agree with them or not, most viewers using a 4:3 display are not the slightest bit interested in the dead unoccupied space at the edges of a 16:9 talk show or news broadcast. Hell, half the news footage today is captured by 4:3 consumer cellphones anyway. Most casual viewers find a "full" 4:3 screen has higher apparent resolution than letterboxed 4:3, so AFD is here to stay. If you don't like the way it works, make your voice heard to the networks and hardware mfrs.

But if ABC, CBS, CW, FOX stations in the Boston market there is no reason NBC can not get their 4:3 and 16:9 picture right for both 4:3 and 16:9 TV sets.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:21 AM
 
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For a perfect example of NBC's AFD idiocy, tune in right now to watch their coverage of the Michael Jackson service. AFD on, AFD off, AFD on, AFD off....up, down, up, down, all within the program. It's ****ing patethic. NBC's broadcast engineers are such IDIOTS.
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by NYCLA* View Post

For a perfect example of NBC's AFD idiocy, tune in right now to watch their coverage of the Michael Jackson service.

No thanks - I'll take your word for it. My TV is remaining completely off for the whole day today.

This has to be the most ridiculous day in the history of television broadcasting ever.
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

No thanks - I'll take your word for it. My TV is remaining completely off for the whole day today.

This has to be the most ridiculous day in the history of television broadcasting ever.

This is what cable channels are for, otherwise I would agree....

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Being A Beacon of Knowledge in the darkness of FUD
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

This is what cable channels are for, otherwise I would agree....

Only if you feel they are worth the money you pay for them.
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vatkat234 View Post

In the settings you might be able to fix this. Set to Anamorphic, 16:9, 14:9, Zoom.

I have the same problem with my Panasonic DVD Recorder. But my DTV Converter Box from Radio Shack the Digital Stream fixes this problem.

Beeper, can you over ride "set by program"? And will it fix the problem?

I don't have the AFD problem with the Zenith DTT901 or LG HDTV external tuner.

That particular paragraph was just an observation that "set by program" is treated differently on CECBs vs. an HD tuner.
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

No thanks - I'll take your word for it. My TV is remaining completely off for the whole day today.

This has to be the most ridiculous day in the history of television broadcasting ever.

I used to MJ opportunity to do some testing.

I carefully studied all the networks broadcasting the same source, and took notes.
The bottom line is, the HD station without any sub channels looked the worst.
And the station with the most subs tied for best PQ.

More to come.
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

This is what cable channels are for, otherwise I would agree....

I have a basic package. But some of the "news" (using the word loosely) channels last night were saying they were going to show it, too (and even the ones that aren't will be yapping about it all day).

And I really don't feel like watching Law and Order reruns or Reality television.

Any good games on ESPN this early in the day?
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Old 07-07-2009, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

This is what cable channels are for, otherwise I would agree....

Or time for catching up on my Tivo or DVDR recordings
Beeper, I'll take your word for it today (I'm not watching) but for things like the presidential debates etc. I've totally found the opposite to be true.
In my market (MSP) #1 PQ is CBS (no subs) #2 is NBC (1 sub) #3s would be ABC and FOX both only have 1 sub but are 720p vs. 1080i for CBS and NBC. We don't really have any major networks with more than one sub. ION has 3 subs and a HD main channel but basically only broadcast upconverted HD on the HD channel.
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Or time for catching up on my Tivo or DVDR recordings
Beeper, I'll take your word for it today (I'm not watching) but for things like the presidential debates etc. I've totally found the opposite to be true.
In my market (MSP) #1 PQ is CBS (no subs) #2 is NBC (1 sub) #3s would be ABC and FOX both only have 1 sub but are 720p vs. 1080i for CBS and NBC. We don't really have any major networks with more than one sub. ION has 3 subs and a HD main channel but basically only broadcast upconverted HD on the HD channel.

Well coincidentally, the two top PQs today during MJ were NBC and CBS in my market. This was on HDTV not a CECB. I suspect it has nothing to do with the number of subs, like some constantly whine about.
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:21 PM
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I think where sub channels come into play are during scenes of fast movement or quick screen changes. For static or slow changing scenes personally I don't think the subs make a bit of difference. Similar to different speeds in a DVD recorder. Slower bit rates don't make much of a difference for static images but introduce fast movement and the picture soon degrades to a macroblocking mess.
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:45 AM
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Okay guys we need to write to the FCC and file a complaint. Click on the FCC link.

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumers.html

Click on "File a Complaint"

The pick "Broadcast (TV and Radio), Cable, and Satellite Issues" click next.

Now pick "DTV issues"

Now click on "ONLINE FORM" in the yellow banner. Tell the FCC how NBC is abusing the Active Format Description (AFD) or any other channel.
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Old 07-12-2009, 10:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

Well coincidentally, the two top PQs today during MJ were NBC and CBS in my market. This was on HDTV not a CECB. I suspect it has nothing to do with the number of subs, like some constantly whine about.

I believe PQ does have to do with the number of subs:

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...nnel#Tradeoffs

Quote:


As the amount of data which can be carried on one digital television channel at one time is finite, the addition of multiple channels of programming as digital subchannels comes at the expense of having less available space for other purposes, such as high-definition television. A station carrying multiple subchannels will normally limit itself to one high-definition channel, with the additional channels being carried in standard definition. Because of the tradeoffs, stations owned by CBS Corporation that are a part of CBS Television Stations (which include CBS O&O's, CW O&O's, and some independent stations) are not permitted to have digital subchannels.
It is, however, possible for stations to carry two subchannel feeds in HD, though it is still extremely rare. Currently, at least three stations broadcast in this format:
  • KXII, the CBS affiliate in Sherman, Texas, airs Fox programming in HD on its third subchannel in addition to airing its main CBS programming in HD. The station also has a myNetworkTV affiliate in SD on subchannel 12.2.

  • WKBN-TV, the CBS affiliate in Youngstown, Ohio which also owns & operates low-powered Fox affiliate WYFX-LP & simulcasting sister station WFXI-CA of nearby Mercer, Pennsylvania, simulcasts WYFX/WFXI on its second digital subchannel while broadcasting its main CBS feed on its first subchannel. Both subchannels are broadcasting in 720p HD, a reduction from CBS's preferred 1080i transmissions although Fox has a preference for 720p.

  • WPVI-TV, the ABC O&O in Philadelphia, simulcasts two channels in 720p HD, and a third weather channel in 480i standard definition. WPVI is also one of the few stations broadcasting digital television in the VHF spectrum
(channels 2 to 6) below the FM radio band.

And see here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...considerations

Quote:


ATSC digital television supports multiple digital subchannels if the 19.4 Megabits-per-second (Mbit/s) bitstream is divided. Therefore, station managers could run any of the following scenarios using one 6MHz ATSC channel (note that the actual bitrate moves up and down, due to usage of variable bit rate encoding):
HDTV channels Subchannels
1 x 1080i or 720p HDTV (19 Mbit/s) No additional subchannels, unless HD is transmitted at 15Mbit/s or less.
1 x 1080i or 720p HDTV (15 Mbit/s) + 1 480p or 480i SD subchannel (~3.8 Mbit/s)
1 x 1080i or 720p HDTV (11 Mbit/s) + 1 720p HDTV (8 Mbit/s) subchannel
1 x 1080i or 720p HDTV (11 Mbit/s) + 2 480p or 480i SD subchannels (~3.8 Mbit/s each)
1 x 720p HDTV channel (8 Mbit/s) + 3 480p or 480i SD subchannels (~3.8 Mbit/s each)
2 x 720p HDTV channels (9.6 Mbit/s each) No SD subchannels
2 x 720p HDTV channels (7.8 Mbit/s each) + 1 480p or 480i SD subchannel (~3.8 Mbit/s)
No HDTV channels + 3 480p or 480i SD subchannels (~6 Mbit/s each)
No HDTV channels + 4 480p or 480i SD subchannels (~4.2 Mbit/s each)
No HDTV channels + 5 480p or 480i SD subchannels (~3.8 Mbit/s each)
No HDTV channels + 6 480p or 480i SD subchannels (~3.1 Mbit/s each)
No HDTV channels + 7 480p or 480i SD subchannels (~2.7 Mbit/s each)
No HDTV channels + 120 mono radio subchannels (~0.2 Mbit/s each)

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Old 07-12-2009, 09:54 PM
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I've read this whole discussion, all of it. And I have a few questions. I signed up for converter box coupons for the secondary TV sets in my house. Is there any way I can find out if the box I'm going to buy supports or does not support AFD? And if it does support it, can it be turned off? After reading what these networks, especially NBC, are doing with this broadcast flag, there's no way in hell I'm watching a TV where the picture goes dark and changes sizes constantly. I want a 4:3 output all the time.

If anyone knows what is a "good" converter box, I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-12-2009, 10:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nickdawg View Post

I've read this whole discussion, all of it. And I have a few questions. I signed up for converter box coupons for the secondary TV sets in my house. Is there any way I can find out if the box I'm going to buy supports or does not support AFD? And if it does support it, can it be turned off? After reading what these networks, especially NBC, are doing with this broadcast flag, there's no way in hell I'm watching a TV where the picture goes dark and changes sizes constantly. I want a 4:3 output all the time.

If anyone knows what is a "good" converter box, I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

If you want 4:3 "all the time" then you have nothing to worry about. Just about any box will work for you, just set every channel to "Zoom". It's people who want everything shot in 16:9 widescreen to display in 16:9 widescreen who get screwed by AFD.
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Old 07-12-2009, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by NYCLA* View Post

If you want 4:3 "all the time" then you have nothing to worry about. Just about any box will work for you, just set every channel to "Zoom". It's people who want everything shot in 16:9 widescreen to display in 16:9 widescreen who get screwed by AFD.

So the only case there is a problem with the user overriding the settings is for letterbox? I can manually "tell" the box to always output a 4:3 image without having to press any extra buttons(like the windowbox effect)?

That's really odd. As I understand it, the whole reasoning behind AFD was to display programming that is 16:9 in 16:9. So it seems odd that it would block showing 16:9 programming in 16:9.
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:27 AM
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If you set it to "zoom", 16:9 material will be cropped on the sides to 4:3 (and fill the screen), so on a 4:3 TV, the picture will always appear as full, screen-filling 4:3.

If you have it set at letterboxed on an HD channel, then when it goes to 4:3, it will be windowboxed. In that case, if you wanted the picture to fill the screen, you'd have to hit the aspect ratio button and change it to zoom.

They usually only show a windowboxed picture temporarily - like during some commercials, when they run a severe weather warning scrawl, or if they're having a problem with their equipment. Usually doesn't last long, though, like I said.

You might want to look for a Zenith or Insignia CECB - at least you'll have the most control possible with one of these boxes over the individual settings for each channel. But since you just want "a 4:3 output all the time", you really don't have anything to worry about using any CECB.

Most of these boxes don't show any real noticable difference in PQ when zooming. If any of your TV's have s-video in, then maybe consider the CM7000, if you want to be sure of having the best PQ no matter what it's set at. The Tivax and the Zenith have excellent PQ over composite, and the DTV Pal Plus has the best guide.

If you need a box with event timers for recording, the Zinwell and the Pal Plus have that

You might want to check the "Best CECB" sticky here - the Zenith was voted the best, and the Channel Master 2nd (CM does have better PQ over s-video, though, like I said. Also, the CM has the better sensitivity, although the Zenith is better with multipath).
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

If you set it to "zoom", 16:9 material will be cropped on the sides to 4:3 (and fill the screen), so on a 4:3 TV, the picture will always appear as full, screen-filling 4:3.

If you have it set at letterboxed on an HD channel, then when it goes to 4:3, it will be windowboxed. In that case, if you wanted the picture to fill the screen, you'd have to hit the aspect ratio button and change it to zoom.

They usually only show a windowboxed picture temporarily - like during some commercials, when they run a severe weather warning scrawl, or if they're having a problem with their equipment. Usually doesn't last long, though, like I said.

Native 4:3 material on a 480i channel (like a subchannel) will automatically stay at a full 4:3 setting. The aspect ratio settings don't work for those.

You might want to look for a Zenith or Insignia CECB - at least you'll have the most control possible with one of these boxes over the individual settings for each channel. But since you just want "a 4:3 output all the time", you really don't have anything to worry about using any CECB.

Most of these boxes don't show any real noticable difference in PQ when zooming. If any of your TV's have s-video in, then maybe consider the CM7000, if you want to be sure of having the best PQ no matter what it's set at. The Tivax and the Zenith have excellent PQ over composite, and the DTV Pal Plus has the best guide (the Tivax and Zenith don't have much of a guide, though - the CM's is pretty decent).

If you need a box with event timers for recording, the Zinwell (no guide to speak of, either) and the Pal Plus have that feature.

Thanks. I guess these issues must be more of a local issue since someone commented earlier about the picture changing size on NBC for no reason and during a clip on SNL. I guess I'll be finding out very soon how well(or not) my market's stations handle AFD.

Isn't Insignia the brand Best Buy sells? I've seen many TVs and DVD players there by that brand, which is great since I planned on going there first. Also, what brand is the CM7000? One of my older TVs has S Video input, so I might keep that in mind.
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:57 AM
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The CM7000 is made by Channel Master. If you have a Fry's Electronics around, they sell it and often put it on sale on the weekends. Unfortunately, it's jumped up in price everywhere online lately.

The Insignia and the Zenith are the same box (made by LG). but I don't think any BB's have had the Insignia's for a long time now (it's out of production, I believe - still you can check - just don't get suckered into buying one of those Apex DT250's while you're there). Kmart and Sears sold the Zenith (and the DTV Pal Plus), so you might want to search there (it was $10.00 cheaper there, too - only $49.99).

Fry's sometimes carries the Zenith, too, but it's supposedly kept in a whole, other department than the Channel Master usually is, so you have to look good.

Sears online has the Zenith - but you can't use a coupon. Impossible to find it anywhere new online that'll take a coupon right now.

Amazon.com has the Tivax STB-T8 for ony 10 bucks (with coupon), and SolidSignal.com has the TR-40, which is the DTV Pal with older firmware, for only 10 bucks shipping.

Amazon also had the Zinwell ZAT-970A for 100% free recently, but it just went "currently unavailable" yesterday (I got one myself - had one last coupon to blow).

(edit: I forgot to mention the the CM7000 doesn't have RF pass-through, if you need that. The other boxes mentioned do.)
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdawg View Post


That's really odd. As I understand it, the whole reasoning behind AFD was to display programming that is 16:9 in 16:9. So it seems odd that it would block showing 16:9 programming in 16:9.

It's the other way around, you've got it backwards. AFD was thrust upon the world because of how 4:3 programming would show up on 4:3 TV's after the digital conversion. Whereas 4:3 was the standard aspect ratio for NTSC, 16:9 is the standard aspect ratio for HDTV/ATSC.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:48 AM
 
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Thanks. I guess these issues must be more of a local issue...

Only applies if your local NBC affiliate or O&O has turned on the AFD flag.
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:43 AM
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The APEX DT502 has both S-Video and analog pass-through. It has better sensitivity than the DT250 (the APEX DT502 has a Samsung tuner) and handles Multi-Path very well. It has great PQ, event reminder (similar to Zinwell ZAT-970A and Dish products), and a complete EPG layout (full program description, multi-channel listing, and listings for several weeks).

Downside: Best used for fixed antenna situations (no channel add or update).

You can find them at Target for $40, when on sale (like last week).
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:55 AM
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I believe PQ does have to do with the number of subs:

I wasn't disputing that lower bit rate can affect the quality of a broadcast, even the president of CBS has stated such.

My observations were regarding other aspects of PQ between various stations.
Mainly that with the same source on several channels that day, the station without any subs looked the worst.

Many people have a knee jerk reaction to blame stations with subs for any type of a lesser quality picture, when in fact many other factors can affect broadcast PQ.
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Old 07-20-2009, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by NYCLA* View Post

Only applies if your local NBC affiliate or O&O has turned on the AFD flag.

An update. My coupons came last Thursday. I finally went to the store today. Two brand new Zenith DTT901 boxes. Even though I use Crop on every channel, I tried "Set By Program" during the Nightly News. When the show started it appeared in 4:3. When it went to commercial, it changed between 4:3 and 16:9. The whole time I am able to cycle through all of the settings: Set By Program, Letterbox, Crop, Squeeze.

Either WKYC is sending a different AFD signal than your station or it is a hardware/software related issue. I can't see why any option is "denied" on a HD channel.

Even though I dislike letterbox and prefer 4:3 all the time, I do have to admit that the Set By Program/AFD thing does work very nice. There is no flickering/dark screen between changes. I do notice it changes a few seconds early but other than that it is a very clean transition. To the untrained eye it would appear the "network analog feed' never ended.
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nickdawg View Post

An update. My coupons came last Thursday. I finally went to the store today. Two brand new Zenith DTT901 boxes. Even though I use Crop on every channel, I tried "Set By Program" during the Nightly News. When the show started it appeared in 4:3. When it went to commercial, it changed between 4:3 and 16:9. The whole time I am able to cycle through all of the settings: Set By Program, Letterbox, Crop, Squeeze.

Either WKYC is sending a different AFD signal than your station or it is a hardware/software related issue. I can't see why any option is "denied" on a HD channel.

Even though I dislike letterbox and prefer 4:3 all the time, I do have to admit that the Set By Program/AFD thing does work very nice. There is no flickering/dark screen between changes. I do notice it changes a few seconds early but other than that it is a very clean transition. To the untrained eye it would appear the "network analog feed' never ended.

There's only one AFD standard. The problem is the Pal+ does not allow you to override it.

You want 4:3 all the time and don't like 16:9. Eh, to each his own

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To the untrained eye it would appear the "network analog feed' never ended.

Pathetic.
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:20 PM
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There's only one AFD standard. The problem is the Pal+ does not allow you to override it.

You want 4:3 all the time and don't like 16:9. Eh, to each his own

That's what I thought. That seems odd that the box wouldn't allow an override of it. And yes, I like 4:3. It is a 4:3 TV afterall, and it is 19 inches. Plus a commercial came on that looked like a 2.35:1 movie. Over half the screen was blank. No thanks.

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Pathetic.

No, the "network analog feed" comment was referring to the letterbox, NOT PQ. Since NBC used to broadcast all their SD programming and commercials letterbox, using "set by program" makes it seem the same.
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nickdawg View Post

That's what I thought. That seems odd that the box wouldn't allow an override of it. And yes, I like 4:3. It is a 4:3 TV afterall, and it is 19 inches. Plus a commercial came on that looked like a 2.35:1 movie. Over half the screen was blank. No thanks.

Frankly, I'd rather see all of the picture the director of the commercial, or other program intended me to see, or all of the picture contained within the broadcast, than fill the screen of a TV that has a dinosaur aspect ratio. You're getting MORE with 16:9 letterbox, not LESS. Not to mention it's a more natural way of viewing things.



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Originally Posted by nickdawg View Post

No, the "network analog feed" comment was referring to the letterbox, NOT PQ. Since NBC used to broadcast all their SD programming and commercials letterbox, using "set by program" makes it seem the same.

I knew you weren't referring to picture quality. I wasn't referring to picture quality either.
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