Why aren't better CECB's available, and why can't the coupon buy a better DTV tuner? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

"non-passive amplifier," sounds like an oxymoron - LOL.

I thought the same thing. I kept looking at it thinking......Huh......?

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post #92 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post



Which indoor antenna is generally considered to be the best deal? (Or is that on another thread)

Yes, it's another thread. A big, detailed one. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779

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post #93 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by WeThePeople View Post

In the interest of closing the "Bullet" topic so as to get back OT (Acronym = "On Topic" for new-comers).

Er, no, "OT" means off-topic.  You'd close the digressing side-issue so as not to be OT any longer.
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post #94 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

I have a CM-7000 and the Winegard. They will only be used when cable goes off the air.

Cable was never on the "air". It's called cable because it's sent over a cable.

Exactly what do you mean by that, anyway? Does your cable company plan on shutting down it's operations altogether? As far as I know, no one else's is.

If by chance you're talking about them shutting off the expanded basic analogs, and all you want are the analog locals, you won't even need those boxes, because you'll still be able to get them on your TV's NTSC tuners, just as you are now (you should get everything up to about channel 30). They won't be encrypting those.

The only reason to use the boxes would be if you wanted the locals in pure digital (although those analogs are probably already converted to NTSC from the digital channels), and you wanted the local subchannels. And I would think that if you cared about the subchannels that much, you'd already be using those boxes.
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post #95 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdawg View Post

I'm planning on canceling this cable service in the near future.
I followed the rules of the program and purchased two eligible converters.

When applying for a coupon(s), if you checked the box that you had cable or satellite service, you were only entitled to receive one coupon.
Those were the rules. How many coupons did you get?

Plain and simple, if the feds allowed CECB coupons to be used on more expensive non-qualifying available tuners or recording devices (as some have suggested they should have), that would have caused many more people to apply for coupons that didn't really fit the demographic that the program was designed for. Coupons and $ would have run out much sooner than it did, for those that really needed them.

That still didn't stop the enthusiast that bought one of each brand CECB to test and then sell on eBay, using coupons obtained from friends and neighbors.

Better CECBs are available (depending on what you now have) and you could have spent as much as you wanted to over the $40 to purchase one.
I can remember when the Channel Master was being touted as the best and sold locally for $90.
You can read the thousands of posts stating which one is better.

Certain brands not wanting to pay licensing fees for features, the limited time to design and develop a qualifying CECB coupled with the high probability that there won't be much (model year) product refinement, dictates that there is not one (even close to) perfect CECB available.
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post #96 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

When applying for a coupon(s), if you checked the box that you had cable or satellite service, you were only entitled to receive one coupon.
Those were the rules. How many coupons did you get?

And your intrepretation is entirely WRONG.

As originally setup -

For the first 2/3 of the available money, ANYONE (regardless of satellite or cable status) was eligible for up to 2 coupons. For the final 1/3 of the money, then DBS/ cable subs were limited to ONE, in fact, it may have been zero. However, as usual, Congress mucked it up when they made the changes after the first of the year, so I'm not sure if DBS/cable subs were still limited to just one or not.

I do know that I was entirely honest and got my 2 coupons , both used in a timely fashion.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

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post #97 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

And your intrepretation is entirely WRONG.

then DBS/ cable subs were limited to ONE, in fact, it may have been zero. However, as usual, Congress mucked it up when they made the changes after the first of the year, so I'm not sure if DBS/cable subs were still limited to just one or not.

It wasn't an interpretation. At the trime I applied for a coupon online, the application instructions clearly stated that if a household had cable or satellite service you could only ask for one coupon.

You stated that I'm wrong and then an few breaths later stated that you're not sure if I'm wrong.

You are correct that the rules have changed many times since January 2008.
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post #98 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

It wasn't an interpretation. At the trime I applied for a coupon online, the application instructions clearly stated that if a household had cable or satellite service you could only ask for one coupon.

You stated that I'm wrong and then an few breaths later stated that you're not sure if I'm wrong.

You are correct that the rules have changed many times since January 2008.

Quit changing my words -
As first passed when the coupons were first available -
ANYONE could get TWO coupons.

after the first 2/3 of the money was used - THEN cable/DBS subs were limited to ONE (or zero) and the most of the rest was to go to OTA only households.

After JANUARY 2009 when Congress mucked things up - I don't know (nor care) what changes were made to the coupon program.

But I am POSITIVE there was no one coupon limit at the start of the program.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

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post #99 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

Certain brands not wanting to pay licensing fees for features, the limited time to design and develop a qualifying CECB coupled with the high probability that there won't be much (model year) product refinement, dictates that there is not one (even close to) perfect CECB available.


Had I known that this would be the case, I would have developed my own box a few years ago and made myself the exclusive retailer of it....missed opportunities
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post #100 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 06:54 PM
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I guess the point is there is NO box offered with no coupon. I would pay for a GREAT box with alot of features
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post #101 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Cable was never on the "air". It's called cable because it's sent over a cable.

Exactly what do you mean by that, anyway? Does your cable company plan on shutting down it's operations altogether? As far as I know, no one else's is.

If by chance you're talking about them shutting off the expanded basic analogs, and all you want are the analog locals, you won't even need those boxes, because you'll still be able to get them on your TV's NTSC tuners, just as you are now (you should get everything up to about channel 30). They won't be encrypting those.

The only reason to use the boxes would be if you wanted the locals in pure digital (although those analogs are probably already converted to NTSC from the digital channels), and you wanted the local subchannels. And I would think that if you cared about the subchannels that much, you'd already be using those boxes.

Cable goes "off the air" when it's down, off, out, kaput, service outage, not functioning within established parameters. When that happens, cable users then have to watch OTA TV.

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post #102 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by lexus2108 View Post

I guess the point is there is NO box offered with no coupon. I would pay for a GREAT box with alot of features

If you mean there are no boxes that are not on the CECB list, that's not so. There are many out there not on the list. Two that I recently saw in a flyer: Coby DTV-140 HDTV ATSC Digital Tuner Set Top Box, Featuring Component Video Output. Note it has component video, S-video, Dolby Digital, and SPDIF. A lesser version here. Naturally, they don't exist according to the Coby website. So there are no manuals. Amazon reviews for the DTV-140 are pretty good.

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post #103 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Yes, it's another thread. A big, detailed one. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779

Excellent, thanks.

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post #104 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 10:07 PM
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I found a manual for the DTV-140, http://www.devicemanuals.com/guide/D...npFNU5EST.html . It says "DVD" but it's the correct manual. After inputting the code (way down on the page), you have to use the backup server, the first link doesn't work. Also the download link wouldn't work for me in IE, I had to use FF.

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post #105 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Cable goes "off the air" when it's down, off, out, kaput, service outage, not functioning within established parameters. When that happens, cable users then have to watch OTA TV.

Ah, OK. You did said they "will be" used, not they "are being" used - that's why I thought what I did.
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post #106 of 169 Old 07-28-2009, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Ah, OK. You did said they "will be" used, not they "are being" used - that's why I thought what I did.

That's because I haven't used them yet. In fact I'm checking out antennas right now because cable was down a few hours last week and two TV's didn't have any reception.

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post #107 of 169 Old 07-29-2009, 02:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

"non-passive amplifier," sounds like an oxymoron - LOL...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

I thought the same thing. I kept looking at it thinking......Huh......?

I agree, it is uber-stupid, and an oxymoron in my opinion too ...

If it "Passivily Passes" a DC carrier voltage already existing on a feed line (like a satellite feed to select H/V polarization, or a mast-mount preamp for OTA reception) through it it is called "Passive", cause it "Passivly Passes" the DC voltage through it.

If the supply of DC is blocked upon insertion of the bullet into a feed circuit path it is called (Yes, I cringe writing it too...) "Non-Passive",
as it does not "Pass" the DC voltage pre-existing.

"Non-Passive" and Amplifier/Preamplifier should be nowhere near each other in a name, much less be the only two words in a descriptive catch phrase.

To much like "Military Intelligence", or "Semi-Permanently" !

I do still chuckle when I see someone trying to just put good ole fashioned (DC-Shorting) splitters in a satellite feed that short out the receiver inside ...

(Yes, special splitters exist that let DC pass to only one of the two output ports on a two way splitter so you can tap a signal at the second floor from a feed coming from a mast mount OTA preamp on It's way to the first floor where the DC injector is (At the very end of the feed).



They should just say "DC-Pass" or "DC-Block" and stop confusing people.

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post #108 of 169 Old 07-29-2009, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

You can read the thousands of posts stating which one is better.
.

If the original plan to wipe out this whole sub section of the forum goes ahead, folks don't have much time left to read those posts.
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post #109 of 169 Old 07-29-2009, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

If the original plan to wipe out this whole sub section of the forum goes ahead, folks don't have much time left to read those posts.

I think leaving the CECB subsection up for the expected lifetime of the converters is a real good idea. People will be using and have trouble with them for years. The CECBs will also be moving around from the original purchaser and new owners could use a good resource.
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post #110 of 169 Old 07-29-2009, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

If the original plan to wipe out this whole sub section of the forum goes ahead, folks don't have much time left to read those posts.

If this sub-forum does go, I hope they at least start another one for SD programming and reception. Otherwise, we're going to have to deal with all their constant raving about "We love subchannels!! We want more sub-channels!" over in the HD ones.
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post #111 of 169 Old 07-29-2009, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

If you mean there are no boxes that are no on the CECB list, that's not so. There are many out there not on the list.

Which are all covered in this topic: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=179095

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post #112 of 169 Old 07-29-2009, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

That's because I haven't used them yet. In fact I'm checking out antennas right now because cable was down a few hours last week and two TV's didn't have any reception.

I'm using my converters INSTEAD of the cable. I can't stand the analog SD cable.
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post #113 of 169 Old 07-31-2009, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

If this sub-forum does go, I hope they at least start another one for SD programming and reception. Otherwise, we're going to have to deal with all their constant raving about "We love subchannels!! We want more sub-channels!" over in the HD ones.

The last coupons aren't expected to be redeemed until early November and you make a good point about the subchannels and other OTA SD topics. You may not want to deal with any raving about the upcoming M/H standard in the HD forums either and that's surely coming too.
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post #114 of 169 Old 08-03-2009, 11:47 AM
 
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The STB came before the coupons but for use with the coupons...

Quote:


But no one yet has given a good argument as to why consumers should not have been allowed to buy any priced box they wish. The point of the program was to replace lost functionality of what people had in their analog NTSC tuners.

There have been complete and legitimate answers...You just chose not to want to believe what was said unless it is what you happen to agree with at the time...Of course you flip flop all over so there is no reason to believe you have anything to intelligently contribute but rather are just trolling...

The coupon program is not and was not (program ended 7-31-09) set up to subsidize anything other a household that relied on OTA television reception ie people who live in low income areas that cannot afford the full cost of replacing their old analog television...It certainly was not intended to purchase converters for if/when your cable or satellite goes out for a few hours...The people that checked that they have cable in every room and still got coupons and worse used them actually defrauded the government even though the government screwed up and sent the coupons anyway...

The program is only for replacement of what was lost...NOT to add additional features...

Noone put a limit on what a consumer can and can't buy...Go buy a $1000 converter...The government doesn't care...But they sure as hell aren't going to pay $40 of that $1000...

The reason the $40 coupon is not able to be used on more extravegant items such as DVR is because there aren't any analog TV with DVR built in...Analog TV will not benefit from having HDMI...HDMI is not a requirement for a television to view OTA signals...

And why all the whining and crying about not being able to use a coupon on anything they want is just annoying and as ridiculous as can be...The argument that "It is still $40" is such a lame excuse and proff positive that the people saying (and agreeing) just don't have a clue...Why is it noone complains when there is a $1.00 off coupon on the 54oz box of Tide detergent that that same coupon cannot be used on a 96oz or even a 32oz box??? It's still $1.00 after all...

It is amazing that this thread got to 4 or 5 pages in length...What a bunch of whiney cry baby losers...

Here is a list of all elegible CECB's...And what do you suppose is included and one poster claims is not??? Thats right...The DTVpal...

Coupon Eligible Converter Boxes (CECB)
Energy Star Information
Energy Star-Compliant CECBs


NTIA-Approved & Available

These NTIA-approved CECBs currently are available in retail stores, according to manufacturers and retailers. Consumers should call ahead to retailers to make sure that the boxes are in stock.

Access HD DTA1020D
Access HD DTA1020U
AccessHD DTA1010D
AccessHD DTA1010U
AccessHD DTA1020AD *
AccessHD DTA1030D *
AccessHD DTA1050D *
AccessHD DTA1080D *
AccessHD DTA1080U *
Airlink101 ATVC102 *
Airlink101® ATVC101
ALPHA DIGITAL AT2016
AMTC AT2001
Apex DT1001
APEX DT150
APEX DT250 *
APEX DT502 *
APEX DTA250A *
Artec T3A
Artec T3AP *
Artec T3AP Pro *
Artec T3AP-LL *
Artec T3AP-LS *
Artec T3APR-T (TVG) *
Artec T3APro
CADENCE DTVC-9
CASTi CAX-03 *
Channel Master CM-7000
CLASSIC DTV-2000 *
Cleartech CT DCB100A *
Coby DTV-102 *
ComponexX CX-900A *
COSHIP N9900T
COSHIP N9901T *
COSHIP N9988T
CRAIG CVD508 *
CRAIG Electronics International Ltd. CVD506 *
DIGITAL STEAM DSP6500C *
DIGITAL STREAM DSP7500T
DIGITAL STREAM DSP7700P *
DIGITAL STREAM DSP7700T *
DIGITAL STREAM DTX9900
DIGITAL STREAM DTX9900D
DIGITAL STREAM DTX9950 *
Digital Stream DTX9950F *
DIGITAL STREAM DX8700 *
Dish Network DISH Network DTVPal Plus *
DISH Network DTVPal *
DISH NETWORK TR-40CRA by Dish Network *
GE 22729
GE 22730
GE 23333 *
GE 23334 *
Goodmind DTA1000
Goodmind DTA1100 *
Gridlink GLT-200
iNet Access SSR 1921 *
Insignia NS-DXA1
Insignia NS-DXA1-APT *
Kingbox K8V1
Lasonic LTA-260
Magnavox TB-100MG9 *
Magnavox RTB110MW9 *
Magnavox RTB110MW9A *
Magnavox TB100MW9
Magnavox TB100MW9A *
Magnavox TB110MW9 *
Magnavox TB110MW9A *
MaxMedia LuTRO *
Memorex MVCB1000 *
MicroGEM MG2000
Philco TB100HH9 *
Philco TB150HH9 *
RCA DTA 800B
RCA DTA800B1 *
RCA DTA809 *
RCA STB7766G1 *
Sansonic FT300A
SPICA AT 2018 *
SUNKEY SK-801ATSC *
Tivax STB-T8 *
Tivax STB-T9
TRT TACB-1009 *
VENTURER STB7766G
Winegard RCDT09A *
WINEGARD RC-DT09
Zenith DTT900
Zenith DTT901 *
Zentech DF2000
Zentech EZTV DF2000L *
Zinwell ZAT-857
ZINWELL ZAT-950A *
ZINWELL ZAT-970
ZINWELL ZAT-970A *




*The manufacturer has indicated that these models are capable of passing analog signals through to the TV set.
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post #115 of 169 Old 08-03-2009, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post


The coupon program is not and was not (program ended 7-31-09) set up to subsidize anything other a household that relied on OTA television reception ie people who live in low income areas that cannot afford the full cost of replacing their old analog television...It certainly was not intended to purchase converters for if/when your cable or satellite goes out for a few hours...The people that checked that they have cable in every room and still got coupons and worse used them actually defrauded the government even though the government screwed up and sent the coupons anyway...

I wasn't one of those people, NickDawg was. I also was not the one who complained about "when my cable goes out for a few hours". That was someone else too, so get straight who you're talking to. I applied for ONE coupon because I have ONE set and DID NOT HAVE CABLE, and was OTA ONLY.

And yes, you should have been able to spend the 40 bucks on any converter you wanted, even one with a DVR, as long as all the other requirements of replacing what was lost was met. 40 bucks is 40 bucks. The rest is my nickel, and there is no rational reason why it should have been disallowed other than some people "didn't like it".
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post #116 of 169 Old 08-03-2009, 12:00 PM
 
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Quote:


But I am POSITIVE there was no one coupon limit at the start of the program.

No there was not...It was always a 2 coupon limit but you had the option of requesting only 1 coupon if you didn't need two...

Me I have cable as well as use OTA...I decided to be a man about it and buy my own STB...I figured if I could afford cable I could certainly afford a converter box for OTA...I didn't abuse the program like many did and I don't have to justify anything to anybody like others here...To get a coupon to get a box because cable may go out for a few hours is nothing short of abusing the program...And if one cant live without cable for a few hours really needs a wakeup call...
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post #117 of 169 Old 08-03-2009, 12:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NYCLA* View Post

I wasn't one of those people, NickDawg was. I also was not the one who complained about "when my cable goes out for a few hours". That was someone else too, so get straight who you're talking to. I applied for ONE coupon because I have ONE set and DID NOT HAVE CABLE, and was OTA ONLY.

And yes, you should have been able to spend the 40 bucks on any converter you wanted, even one with a DVR, as long as all the other requirements of replacing what was lost was met. 40 bucks is 40 bucks. The rest is my nickel, and there is no rational reason why it should have been disallowed other than some people "didn't like it".

I didn't mention you or point to you...Why are you feeling so attacked if you are not guilty???

And did you not bother to read the 'Tide detergent' analogy???Noone is stopping you from buying what you want on "your nickel"...Go for it...But don't expect to use a coupon that was not intended to be used for a DVR...

I can't stand the trolls here...
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post #118 of 169 Old 08-03-2009, 04:05 PM
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The coupon program is not and was not (program ended 7-31-09) set up to subsidize anything other a household that relied on OTA television reception ie people who live in low income areas that cannot afford the full cost of replacing their old analog television...It certainly was not intended to purchase converters for if/when your cable or satellite goes out for a few hours...The people that checked that they have cable in every room and still got coupons and worse used them actually defrauded the government even though the government screwed up and sent the coupons anyway...

The program is only for replacement of what was lost...NOT to add additional features...

Sheet, my 78 year old mom defrauded the gov't ! She has service in her living room but didn't spend the hundreds of dollars they required to run cable to her other rooms in her old house. BTW, it's not a checkbox for "cable in every room," rather a checkbox for if you have one or more TVs on a paid service. But yes there are some gluttons out there (like my neighbor that uses them for pic-in-pic to compliment his fiber-optic service!).

I also lost my ability to timer record (VCR), so why shouldn't I be able to use a coupon to buy a recorder with a built-in DTV tuner?

I suspect there's other features that were lost but of course some nice features were gained (digital). I think the biggest downfall is the poor reception for the poor souls with poor antennas (rabbit ears); might have been fuzzy before but at least they could pick those stations up.

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post #119 of 169 Old 08-03-2009, 07:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Floydage View Post


I also lost my ability to timer record (VCR), so why shouldn't I be able to use a coupon to buy a recorder with a built-in DTV tuner?

Because your VCR is an added accessory purchased seperately and not required to watch broadcast television...And you DIDN'T lose any timer control...Set the CECB to the channel you want to record and set the timer for the time you want the recording to begin...VOILA!!! Timer recording...

The CECB's are for ANALOG TELEVISIONS ONLY...Not for accessories like VCRs or DVD recorders or DVRs...

And no your mother didn't defraud anyone from the way you described her situation...
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post #120 of 169 Old 08-03-2009, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Because your VCR is an added accessory purchased seperately and not required to watch broadcast television...And you DIDN'T lose any timer control...Set the CECB to the channel you want to record and set the timer for the time you want the recording to begin...VOILA!!! Timer recording...

The CECB's are for ANALOG TELEVISIONS ONLY...Not for accessories like VCRs or DVD recorders or DVRs...

And no your mother didn't defraud anyone from the way you described her situation...

HELLO ! - What does CONVERTER BOX mean in this context ? It provides an ATSC (digital TV) tuner to a device that does not have one. Using a CECB on a VCR (or any other recording device) is just as valid a use for them as using the CECB on a TV.

What's your problem with people using them this way ? Or is it only using the coupon for said converter box on a NON-TV analog tuner that has you riled up ?

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Being A Beacon of Knowledge in the darkness of FUD
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