Zenith (LG) DTT900 CECB - Page 34 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #991 of 2560 Old 04-19-2008, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avio View Post

So, I still have the unused battery that came with my DTT900. I just inspected it. On my battery the plastic wrapping is fairly obvious and visible. It can be felt and there are several seams for a finger nail to pry it off. My Zenith is a Jan. 2008 build. The included battery has the following markings:

SHENKANG BATTERY
(+) R03P SIZE "AAA" 1.5V (-)
Color: blue/white/silver/green
NO. 0273

Are we talking about the same battery? Or, is mine from a different batch?

Avio

My Insignia came with same battery as yours, but it is marked R03P. It has a "Born on" date and an exp date.

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post #992 of 2560 Old 04-19-2008, 09:38 PM
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The first code that turned off the tv didn't turn it back on, but when I continued on with more codes, the next one that turned it on again also turned it off. The primary remote is my Sony VL700 learning remote, and I programmed all the keys. The only key that doesn't work as well is volume - on the Sony, holding down the volume up/down only changes the volume by one point, while holding it down on the Zenith quickly changes volume up/down.
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post #993 of 2560 Old 04-19-2008, 09:47 PM
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So, I bought a Zenith DTT900 marked with a March production date.

For a newbie, thats a real smart idea.

They may very well have sometime a running change in the firmware, and a newer built box would probably be be better.

I just looked at my box, sure as anything its marked right on the side on the labels.

Kudos.

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post #994 of 2560 Old 04-20-2008, 12:15 PM
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Just checked at my local Circuit City. They have a mix of Jan built and Mar built boxes right on the same display shelf. Build date is right on the big white bar coded label.

Probably worth it to check and buy the newer boxes at time of purchase as their might be a small chance of a firmware or hardware tweak as a running production change. Two months difference could mean something.

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post #995 of 2560 Old 04-20-2008, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Just checked at my local Circuit City. They have a mix of Jan built and Mar built boxes right on the same display shelf. Build date is right on the big white bar coded label.

Probably worth it to check and buy the newer boxes at time of purchase as their might be a small chance of a firmware or hardware tweak as a running production change. Two months difference could mean something.

I wanted to go last Saturday to see if any with a March date had arrived at our local Circuit City, but was too ill to leave the house.

My 30 days to exchange the converter are up now, unless the 30 days begin again after an exchange is made. The Zenith I initially purchased had a January date and I returned it two weeks later for one made in February. Sound problem was still there, and the circuit board revision # was the same as the one with the January date.
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post #996 of 2560 Old 04-20-2008, 05:25 PM
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I bought two boxes at Circuit City on Saturday 4/19/08 (manufacture dates: one January and one February). Connected them to the two TVs in my motorhome.

Wow... nice improvement in picture quality, extra stations, and I don't have to re-orient my antenna for different stations as I did with analog reception. Even though my TVs are stereo, I set the converter boxes to mono mode. The sound was a bit louder in mono, and with the small speakers in the TVs, mono sound is fine for me. Besides, one of the TV is mounted in a cabinet with no easy access to the audio/video input jacks.

Setup and channel scan was quick and easy. This converter exceeded my expectations.
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post #997 of 2560 Old 04-20-2008, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by wh5916 View Post

The Zenith I initially purchased had a January date and I returned it two weeks later for one made in February. Sound problem was still there, and the circuit board revision # was the same as the one with the January date.

So for for the machines that many are returning due to the sound problem, do you think they are getting returned back to the manufacturer or are the retail stores just sealing them up and reselling them?
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post #998 of 2560 Old 04-20-2008, 09:37 PM
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I bought this at BB. It has a Dec 2007 date on the box. Sound is great. One thing I did notice, a sub-channel for the weather (8.2) is in mono. With my TV & CECB in stereo, no sound at all on that channel. Switching either to mono, produced sound. This box wound up in a friend's house, connected to the YouTube antenna. Using the RF3, she likes the sound, and now she has closed-captioning. The remote did not provide the code for her old Wards TV.
Bob ZIP 61231

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post #999 of 2560 Old 04-21-2008, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rec630 View Post

So for for the machines that many are returning due to the sound problem, do you think they are getting returned back to the manufacturer or are the retail stores just sealing them up and reselling them?

The first converter that I saw on sale in this area, around 6 weeks ago, was a Magnavox. It was sitting by itself on a shelf in Wal-Mart, and had been obviously resealed...and poorly at that.

Unless their policy has changed, Circuit City usually will sell a return as an "open box buy." I don't know if there are exceptions to that rule though. They could have sold my return as new, and I doubt if most folks would have known. I'm a careful repacker, and none of the accessories furnished with it had been touched, right down to the battery.
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post #1000 of 2560 Old 04-21-2008, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rec630 View Post

So for for the machines that many are returning due to the sound problem, do you think they are getting returned back to the manufacturer or are the retail stores just sealing them up and reselling them?

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that many are returning

Probably not that many are actually returned. Not assume AVS comments are typical of consumer actions. People here, notice more things or are more critical and are more prone to corrective action than normal consumers.

AVS posters are the Alpha males of consumer electronics.


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They're ambitious, self-confident, competitive and opinionated.

Often brilliant, they can be difficult to work with and unpleasant to be around.

They're the alpha males.

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I think CC policy is to sell them as open box returns. I doubt anyone would sell them as new. Plus its my opinion it would be pretty easy to tell because a box would be used as no one could stuff the manual, remote, and cords back together in the box without it being obvious that the plastic bags had been opened. The manual bag has is sealed with tape.

AVS people are far more vocal and apt to state returns than a normal homo sapiens would be. Most people would not notice any sound issue let alone return the item for a replacement.

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post #1001 of 2560 Old 04-21-2008, 07:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Desert Hawk View Post

Does stereo on digital tv signals also use sum (l+r) and difference (l-r) just like FM stereo radio?

Yes.
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Does my mono Durabrand digital tv work by decoding just a sum audio signal and ignoring a difference audio signal?

Digital audio for DTV is compressed. It presents one single stream to both left/right speakers, and has a separate "stereo" datastream that describes situations where the sound should only come from the left or right speaker. That way you reduce the bandwidth needed from 200% (two streams) to ~125% (one main stream, plus a smaller sidestream to encode stereo).
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post #1002 of 2560 Old 04-21-2008, 07:50 AM
 
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And, until you fess up to your exact antenna setup (including location, booster, if any, and rotor, if any, as well as associated interference issues like buildings or hills) stop complaining about how many digital channels you get vs analog.

Don't tell me what I can or can not say. ----- I've got a CM4228 sitting on my second floor. I can't mount it on the roof, because the roof does not belong to me. It belongs to my landlord. I'm trying to convince him to change his mind, but so far, no luck.

Using a 4228, I get 20+ analog channels and only 6-7 digital channels (depending upon the weather). That is pisspoor and the result of a lousily-designed system. I have lived with nothing but rabbbit ears for 35 years of my life. Now I had to go out and buy a gigantic digitally-connected antenna that works WORSE than the old analog-connected rabbit ears.

I don't understand the logic of people who call that "better". I just... cannot... comprehend such reasoning.
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By the way, have you done any investigating to determine if those analog stations have, in fact, converted to digital.

Yes they are ALL digital. We're talking about major cities (Philly, Baltimore, Wilmington) here. They all have dual analog & digital transmitters.
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Since it's a waste of time exchanging with you and you obviously aren't interested in resolving your issues, I would suggest to readers of this, and other threads you're involved in, to simply ignore you as if you didn't exist, since you provide no useful information or solutions

Go ahead and ignore me. It won't change facts. (See my signature.)
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Originally Posted by 47thpvvi View Post

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Therefore my statement, "A radio eliminates the L-R signal when you switch it to 'mono' setting," is an accurate description of its function.

Are you kidding? Quote the exact page in Wikipedia where it says you loose half the FM audio in mono.

Judas Priest. Is it REALLY that difficult for you to go to wikipedia and type "FM Stereo"? Here is the quote you're looking for:

"A mono receiver will use just the L+R signal so the listener will hear both channels in the single loudspeaker."
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post #1003 of 2560 Old 04-21-2008, 07:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by nunofyerbisnes View Post

when I asked whether H.H. Gregg would allow me to return the box and buy it back with the coupon, I was told that company policy would not allow this; my only option would be to exchange the box for another one if it was bad. I argued with the sales person, but to no avail. I don’t understand how they can refuse to take back a product with which the customer is not happy.

They can't. And I would have bought the box, and then returned it, just to prove a point. (And if they still refused, file a chargeback with your credit card.) A vendor can not sell you junk and refuse to take it back. It's illegal.
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Originally Posted by seatacboy View Post

1. During this transition phase, many stations' ATSC transmitters are located several meters lower on the same tower as their NTSC transmitters. Post-02/17/09, many stations plan to move their ATSC to the "top of the tower", significantly improving reach to fringe areas.

Which is why I have not called the FCC yet. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, for now, but when March 2009 arrives and I'm screwed with only one-third as many stations, the FCC is going to hear an earful. The government is instituted by the People to serve the people (reference Declaration of Independence)... if they don't do the job properly, we, as their bosses and the supplier of their paychecks, have every right to complain (come 2009).

BTW thanks for proposing *other* reasons why I might get fewer channels, than the usual "it's roger's fault". It's like when women get raped, people want to blame the woman automatically, but they should not. Blame the man who did the rape; blame the FCC who created this f'd up system.
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post #1004 of 2560 Old 04-21-2008, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by rrrrrroger View Post

I've got a CM4228 sitting on my second floor. I can't mount it on the roof, because the roof does not belong to me. It belongs to my landlord. I'm trying to convince him to change his mind, but so far, no luck.

Are you renting a house or an apartment?

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post #1005 of 2560 Old 04-21-2008, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rrrrrroger View Post

Yes.
Digital audio for DTV is compressed. It presents one single stream to both left/right speakers, and has a separate "stereo" datastream that describes situations where the sound should only come from the left or right speaker. That way you reduce the bandwidth needed from 200% (two streams) to ~125% (one main stream, plus a smaller sidestream to encode stereo).

Nitpick mode = on.

1) DTV is spec'd for two modes of DolbyDigital AC3: 2.0 and 5.1.

2) The DTV audio streams are not presented to the speakers. They have to be converted to analog first, normally by the DTV receiver (to Dolby Prologic II stereo) or by an external amp that can handle the DD2.0 and DD5.1 AC3 streams.

Yes, there are digital speakers systems, where they decode the digital fed to them, but those too are not directly fed the AC3 stream. That is handled by the amp.

Now, the CECB boxes that are out there are meant to only have the stereo analog out, which has constant audio on both the left and right outputs when presented with mono sound. It seems that there is a box or two that has either coax or optical audio out.

nitpick mode = off

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post #1006 of 2560 Old 04-21-2008, 02:58 PM
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[quote=rrrrrroger;13692098]I've got a CM4228 sitting on my second floor. I can't mount it on the roof, because the roof does not belong to me. It belongs to my landlord. I'm trying to convince him to change his mind, but so far, no luck.

I had a similar situation when I brought my 42" Panasonic HDTV home and connected it to a 4 bay UHF antanna (all the Portland OR DTV stations are UHF). I am only 10 miles from the network transmitters and I live in a wood ranch style house, so my first thought was to mount the antenna on a wall that faces the West Hills where the towers are visable from my back window. Long story short, the ghosting inside the house was so bad that less than half the DTV stations were receivable. When I mounted the antenna on the roof at 30 feet above ground, all the stations (and sub-channels) were reliably received.

I have a second DTV in the back bedroom with a 2 bay UHF antanna that sets in the window facing the West Hills. There are 2 story homes and many fir trees around me that cause serious ghosting for this set-up; particularly when it rains. (Thats all the time except Summer and Fall.) No matter how strong the signal field for the DTV stations are, the effects of ghosting (particularly for UHF) are a mojor issue for DTV reception. Most people may be tolerant of some ghosting with analog TV.

Sorry for the off-subject post... Hope this helps...
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post #1007 of 2560 Old 04-21-2008, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrider2 View Post

Anderson IN hhgregg has them for $49.95. At least they did a month ago.

Limited supply and high demand for the Zenith, combined with inflation pressures, probably makes it easy for HHGregg to sell the boxes with a ten dollar price hike.

I've seen many retailers bump prices recently to cover increased freight/shipping costs. It's the first time in a couple of decades that we are seeing widespread consumer price inflation pressures.
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post #1008 of 2560 Old 04-21-2008, 06:07 PM
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Well, just ran across this interesting new(I think unless I missed it earlier in this thread) twist to DTT900 audio issues :

http://www.freelists.org/archives/op.../msg00211.html

Can anyone verify the accuracy of that info (Left channel only via RF modulator/RF out, not mono downmix from L+R or, more specifically the DD2.0 or 5.1 sources ) ?

Jeff
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post #1009 of 2560 Old 04-21-2008, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ccrider2 View Post

Anderson IN hhgregg has them for $49.95. At least they did a month ago.

I bet the retailers are jacking the prices up on these. They figure you would be willing to pay $20 for a $60 unit when in all actuality, they should cost between $40 and $50.
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post #1010 of 2560 Old 04-21-2008, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by seatacboy View Post

Limited supply and high demand for the Zenith, combined with inflation pressures, probably makes it easy for HHGregg to sell the boxes with a ten dollar price hike.

I've seen many retailers bump prices recently to cover increased freight/shipping costs. It's the first time in a couple of decades that we are seeing widespread consumer price inflation pressures.

Something is fishy. At last count there were nearly 40 million types of boxes approved for use with the coupon yet all we are finding in the stores is about 4 types.

Since our coupons expire in 90 days, so should the eligibility for use with the coupons if the approved box is not available for sale within 60 days. I think many companies submitted prototypes just to get in on this if there is a high demand for them. Meanwhile, they aren't actually making them.
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post #1011 of 2560 Old 04-21-2008, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

Well, just ran across this interesting new(I think unless I missed it earlier in this thread) twist to DTT900 audio issues :
http://www.freelists.org/archives/op.../msg00211.html

If this is true about LG fixing the Audio issue than this is great news as I have been debating about looking at other SoC's because of the audio issue.

We will however have to waite until the DTT901 arrives to see if the audio issue was fixed.
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post #1012 of 2560 Old 04-22-2008, 05:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

Can anyone verify the accuracy of that info (Left channel only via RF modulator/RF out, not mono downmix from L+R or, more specifically the DD2.0 or 5.1 sources ) ?

I've been saying the same thing for quite awhile, but everybody told me I was wrong.
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post #1013 of 2560 Old 04-22-2008, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rrrrrroger View Post

I've been saying the same thing for wuite awhile, but everybody told me I was wrong.

That's because either:
a) you were wrong
b) you used language so poorly that no one understood you.

I just went through your last couple weeks posts, and only caught one "I haven't tested this but I suspect..." regarding the decoded stereo signal being mixed improperly in the RF output. It turns out your suspicion may be true; too bad you didn't test it.

Please note that this has nothing to do with your inappropriate use of L-R as a difference signal in a discussion of stereo mixing, as previously noted, beyond a common root cause.

A lttle more clarity and less vitrol, less cursing with parasites will get you what you seek.

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post #1014 of 2560 Old 04-22-2008, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rrrrrroger View Post

I've been saying the same thing for wuite awhile, but everybody told me I was wrong.

No, you haven't. What you've been trying to tell people is that mono always looses one channel. You even tried to say Wikipedia agreed with you only you can't provide the link supporting that. The fact that an RF-to-RF-in-mono connection has a flaw, in these units, that appears to eliminate one channel has nothing to do with stereo to mono conversions as an industry standard nor does this flaw appear in the composite connections. It's just another example of you trying to justify you're myopic views by attempting to twist your own postings. Give it up.
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post #1015 of 2560 Old 04-22-2008, 07:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 47thpvvi View Post

No, you haven't. What you've been trying to tell people is that mono always looses one channel.

I said nothing of the kind. (If you think I did say that, cite the post number where it happened.)
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You even tried to say Wikipedia agreed with you, only you can't provide the link supporting that.

False. I provided the wikipedia link to FM Stereo 1-2 pages ago, and I quoted the relevant portion stating Mono radios only hear the L+R portion of the broadcast.
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It's just another example of you trying to justify you're myopic views by attempting to twist your postings.

You are discussing yourself. Nothing you just said was accurate.
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post #1016 of 2560 Old 04-22-2008, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rrrrrroger View Post

I said nothing of the kind. ...
You are discussing yourself. Nothing you just said was accurate.

Still, you persist in thinking it's not you ...

You use facts, but you use them incorrectly. As I'm pointing out here and elsewhere, in this case you insist on using RF processing terminology in a sound mixing discussion. Since difference signals in sound mixing are usually associate with surround and ambience channels, no one understands what you're saying!

That, dear sir, is your fault.
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post #1017 of 2560 Old 04-22-2008, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 47thpvvi View Post

No, you haven't. What you've been trying to tell people is that mono always looses one channel.


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Originally Posted by rrrrrroger View Post

I said nothing of the kind. (If you think I did say that, cite the post number where it happened.)

Yes you did.

in post 977

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Originally Posted by rrrrrroger View Post

That IS an accurate statement. A mono radio DOES only hear half the FM broadcast. ----- In contrast, a stereo radio hears *both* channels: The L+R channel and the L-R channel. (Go read wikipedia if you do not believe.)

You think you are being clear but you are not. Not only being ambiguous but incorrect.

The radio doesn't hear anything it is a radio receiver. If you mean that half the FM broadcast is L+R and half L-R (ignoring the size of each content) you are claiming that L+R is only half the broadcast. Most people would take the statement "half the broadcast" especially when with the word "hear" to mean sound that your ear sends to your brain and not the radio signal received by the radio. So your choice of words is incorrect and at best ambiguous so that most people would take it to mean half the audio and not half the signal.
All the audio is there in the L+R.

Also L+R and L-R are not channels. People are responding to your incorrect use of the word channels in their correct usage of L and R, you claim a channel is lost because you are using the term incorrectly, neither the L or R channel is lost, you hear both in mono.
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post #1018 of 2560 Old 04-22-2008, 09:33 AM
 
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How does my saying the above quote equate to saying mono "always" loses one channel. ANSWER: It does not. You are using hyperbole and Strawman arguments. I was only talking about the Zenith and Stereo radios, not "all" things. ----- ----- Why don't we go back and look at what was ACTUALLY SAID?



roger: "I haven't tested this, but I suspect switching the Zenith/Insignia box to "mono" turns off the left channel. So there's nothing there. ----- That only leaves the right channel which does have some buzzing, but at a much higher frequency (~18,000 hertz) where I can not hear it."

47thpvvi: "Switching to mono does not shut off the left (or right) channel any more than switching from stereo to mono on a radio shuts down one channel."

Right there.

47thpvvi issued an inaccurate statement. First he was wrong to tell me the Zenith does not shut off the left channel (it does). Second he was wrong to say switching a Radio from stereo to mono does not shutdown a channel (it does:the L-R difference channel). All I was doing was correcting 47thpvi's errors (trivial, yes, but still errors).

I stand behind what I said *in the context* of the conversation.

Stp taking things out of context.
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post #1019 of 2560 Old 04-22-2008, 10:21 AM
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Let me rephrase in less mathematical terms.

Both FM and analog TV sound have two signals. One is the combination of both the left and right stereo channels. The other is a signal that tell the receiver which part of the first signal is the left and which part is the right. If you only recieve the first of these you loose no audio only the separation information.

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post #1020 of 2560 Old 04-22-2008, 10:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nb6z View Post

[No matter how strong the signal field for the DTV stations are, the effects of ghosting (particularly for UHF) are a mojor issue for DTV reception. Most people may be tolerant of some ghosting with analog TV.

Yes, another flaw with DTV. If I could re-engineer the system, it would use 4-VSB (more tolerant of phase change) along with MPEG4 encoding (better picture) and MP3+SBR (better sound).
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger View Post

Digital audio for DTV is compressed. It presents one single stream to both left/right speakers, and has a separate "stereo" datastream that describes situations where the sound should only come from the left or right speaker. That way you reduce the bandwidth needed from 200% (two streams) to ~125% (one main stream, plus a smaller sidestream to encode stereo).

Nitpick mode = on. 1) DTV is spec'd for two modes of DolbyDigital AC3: 2.0 and 5.1. (2) The DTV audio streams are not presented to the speakers. They have to be converted to analog first, normally by the DTV receiver (to Dolby Prologic II stereo) or by an external amp that can handle the DD2.0 and DD5.1 AC3 streams.

Yep, I can see why you turned nitpick mode "on" because that's really nitpicky. ;-) I assumed everyone understands that the digital bitstream needs to be converted to analog using a DAC (same as a compact disc or iPod operates), but maybe I shouldn't make those assumptions.

Another neat trick used for audio encoding:

- Rather than encode the entire frequency band, the codec only stores 20-10,000 hertz. Anything above that is stored in a separate ~1 kbit/sec sidestream that stores information needed to create (on the fly) the 10,001 to 20,000 upper-level harmonics. This is called "spectral band replication".

I don't know if the ATSC standard uses this technique or not, but if it does, it allows the same psychoacoustic quality, but with only half as many bits (for example a 128 kbit/s MP3 can be reduced to 64 kbit/s MP3+SBR).
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