Zenith (LG) DTT900 CECB - Page 63 - AVS Forum
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post #1861 of 2449 Old 06-10-2008, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeVideoGuy View Post

What "Broadcast Flag"? No broadcast flag legislation has ever been passed. No one is OTA broadcasting with any form of content protection.

Incorrect.
NBC Says It 'Inadvertently' Flagged American Gladiator
Microsoft Confirms Windows Vista Media Center Adheres to Broadcast Flag
EFF: Signs are NBC Triggered Block of American Gladiator
Watching the Detectors
Microsoft's Masters: Whose Rules Does Your Media Center Play By?
Does NBC Control Your TV?
A Conversation About the Broadcast Flag (EFF podcast)
Microsoft to Issue Patch for "Broadcast Flag Issues?
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post #1862 of 2449 Old 06-10-2008, 05:49 PM
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I checked at Best Buy today and the latest Insignia box has a March 2008 manufacture date. Also, there are no "series numbers" (as it's been named) on the box, only the serial number.

That's going to make it harder to identify which ones are "safe."
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post #1863 of 2449 Old 06-11-2008, 06:59 AM
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I am not incorrect. No Broadcast Flag legislation has passed congress or is allowed by the FCC. I Googled a few of the links you are posting and they concern NBC's "inadvertent" use of some type of flag that triggered the DRM already built in to Microsoft's OSs or namely Windows Media Center.

We all know Microsoft has been working on DRM compliance in their OS's for years. This was one of the selling points of XP to the studios and one of the reasons for Vista. But, this is hardly indicative of widespread non FCC sanctioned Broadcast Flag usage. The studios have tried at least twice to get Broadcast Flag legislation passed but have failed. There is NO Broadcast Flag being utilized by broadcasters.

What me? HTPC!
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post #1864 of 2449 Old 06-11-2008, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagneticJ View Post

...audio/video is BADLY out of synch

I haven't picked up my converter boxes yet, but last night I was watching my local Fox station on regular old analog, and the audio/video was badly out of synch on two very different shows (Simpsons rerun, Hells Kitchen). I've never seen that before, so I suspect the local broadcasting station is going through some changes at the moment, and they're not paying close attention. Maybe this is what others are seeing too.
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post #1865 of 2449 Old 06-11-2008, 02:59 PM
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I've purchased and returned a few DTT900s and am currently using this box. The picture quality is good overall, better than the analog cable that I used to have and way better than analog OTA which was unwatchable due to multi-path. Two minor PQ problems I have noticed are some twitter and horizontal stairstepping. Both issues are worse on 1080i channels, somewhat better on 720p, and don't really occur on standard def channels (well maybe the twitter occurs sometimes on SD channels).

The twitter, where horizontal lines flicker, is only really annoying during the tonight show. The horizontal stairstepping is fairly annoying during just about any hi-def sports.

I assume these issues are due to insufficient vertical filtering when downconverting hi-def stuff. I was wondering if anyone who has tried other CECBs has noticed this on other boxes as well.

I guess I could whine about dot-crawl as well but that is a known issue.
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post #1866 of 2449 Old 06-11-2008, 03:27 PM
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as far as I know Sansonic is the only one with stage 2 silicon tuner, and I'm just happy to use it with no problems except the lag of EPG but I don't really mind that. I get my channel guide from somewhere else
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post #1867 of 2449 Old 06-11-2008, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilehead View Post

Other thoughts:

Menu: The menu remembers where you were last time; makes it easy to play with settings just by hitting the menu and right arrow buttons. (Does not remember if unit is turned off.)

Volume: The volume output on mine seems a little low, even at 100 percent. Could be a cable problem though.

I have the Zenith DTT900, and with regard to volume, it varies from station to station. KPHO-DT, the CBS affiliate in Phoenix runs closest to the volume output of analog broadcasts on their channel 5-1, and about twice as loud as the rest of the Phoenix and Tucson market stations that I can get. KOLD-DT, the Tucson CBS affiliate on channel 13-1 is pretty much at the same volume as the rest of the market when both are carrying the same program.

Larry
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post #1868 of 2449 Old 06-11-2008, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esscrivo View Post

as far as I know Sansonic is the only one with stage 2 silicon tuner, and I'm just happy to use it with no problems except the lag of EPG but I don't really mind that. I get my channel guide from somewhere else

... and in my side-by-side shootout, the Zenith was more sensitive than the Sansonic.
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post #1869 of 2449 Old 06-11-2008, 04:13 PM
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The DTT901 has arrived!

I know, because I used my other coupon on one at CC about 2 hours ago.

I haven't had a chance to hook it up to test it yet, but I wanted to be the first to give you all the news. Here's what I can tell you so far. The shelves at CC had a mix of DTT900s and DTT901s, and they don't seem to make a distinction between them. Whereas the DTT900s have their model number printed in large white letters on the top of the box, the DTT901s have it printed in black. Other than that, the packing box looks more or less identical. Here are some numbers from the label (minus the last three digits of the serial number):

DTT901 (CUSALZK) 84E00940
April 2008
S/N: 804SHSE435xxx

Peering through the vents, I can see that the tuner is an LG with a green sticker, which says:

EBL38878103
TDVG-H151F
804A19111


Note that it is indeed the H151F, not the H051F used in the DTT900 series. I'll let you all know if I find out anything else useful.
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post #1870 of 2449 Old 06-11-2008, 04:16 PM
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Quote:


I am not incorrect. No Broadcast Flag legislation has passed congress or is allowed by the FCC. I Googled a few of the links you are posting and they concern NBC's "inadvertent" use of some type of flag that triggered the DRM already built in to Microsoft's OSs or namely Windows Media Center.

We all know Microsoft has been working on DRM compliance in their OS's for years. This was one of the selling points of XP to the studios and one of the reasons for Vista. But, this is hardly indicative of widespread non FCC sanctioned Broadcast Flag usage. The studios have tried at least twice to get Broadcast Flag legislation passed but have failed. There is NO Broadcast Flag being utilized by broadcasters.

The way I read this recently, issue is that this is in fact the broadcast flag. The way I read it the broadcaster (NBC) can turn it on legally, but hardware and software don't have to be designed to recognize it.

Last week I turned to American Gladiators with XP MCE and it worked fine. I'm not sure if Dvico tuner was designed to recognize it or not. I hope not.

I too thought the broadcaster couldn't turn it on, but I am pretty sure that is not true.
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post #1871 of 2449 Old 06-11-2008, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempus View Post

Note that it is indeed the H151F, not the H051F used in the DTT900 series. I'll let you all know if I find out anything else useful.

The DTT900 and the Insignia model (without analog pass through) test documents specified Sanyo or LG tuners.

The DTT901 and Insignia NS-DXA1-APT (with analog pass through) test documents specified only the LG tuner:

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/...9;BEJ9QKE00710

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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post #1872 of 2449 Old 06-11-2008, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n4yqt View Post

Tempus. What area is the CC located at?

It's a Boston area CC, but I doubt that it's unique. They'll probably be showing up anywhere that there's high turnover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

The DTT900 and the Insignia model (without analog pass through) test documents specified Sanyo or LG tuners.

The DTT901 and Insignia NS-DXA1-APT (with analog pass through) test documents specified only the LG tuner:

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/...9;BEJ9QKE00710

Both the H051F and the H151F are LG tuners.

Oh, and here's another thing I should note. Contrary to something I read previously on this thread, my DTT901 did indeed come with all the same cables that the DTT900 came with.
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post #1873 of 2449 Old 06-11-2008, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempus View Post

Here are some numbers from the label (minus the last three digits of the serial number):

DTT901 (CUSALZK) 84E00940
April 2008
S/N: 804SHSE435xxx

Peering through the vents, I can see that the tuner is an LG with a green sticker, which says:

EBL38878103
TDVG-H151F
804A19111


Note that it is indeed the H151F, not the H051F used in the DTT900 series. I'll let you all know if I find out anything else useful.

With the serial number of 435xxx, probably indicating production in the 335,000 range, the production probably transitioned from the DTT900 to DTT901 once the supply of HF051F tuners was exhausted. If such is the case that would mean all future production will be of the DTT901 model and the Insignia variant.

It will also be interesting to follow the serial number and other numbers/coding for May production.

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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post #1874 of 2449 Old 06-11-2008, 05:51 PM
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I recently returned a DTT-900 that had the chirping audio problem in the left channel for a replacement from Zenith.

That unit, with a February 2008 manufacture date, also exhibited the problem. I called Zenith, they sent another mailing label, I dutifully boxed up the unit and sent it out. A week later, I receive a replacement for the replacement. Also a February 2008 manufacture date...also with the chirping audio glitch. Even thought I had sent along a note explaining exactly why I was returning the replacement, even though I had explained it to the somewhat clueless rep on the phone.

My question: should I try AGAIN to get a replacement, or am I SOL.

I have three other DTT-900 boxes, all with the April date of manufacture, and they are all fine.

Thanks.
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post #1875 of 2449 Old 06-11-2008, 05:51 PM
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The DTT901 has also shown up at the CC here. Just saw 'em a couple of hours ago. Doesn't say anything about "pass-thru" on the box, though. It's exactly the same box, except for the one-number difference.

All May builds, by the way.
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post #1876 of 2449 Old 06-11-2008, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempus View Post

It's a Boston area CC, but I doubt that it's unique. They'll probably be showing up anywhere that there's high turnover.


Both the H051F and the H151F are LG tuners.

Oh, and here's another thing I should note. Contrary to something I read previously on this thread, my DTT901 did indeed come with all the same cables that the DTT900 came with.


That's good news!! RS didn't have cables listed when I looked.
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post #1877 of 2449 Old 06-12-2008, 03:29 AM
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Great news the DTT901 is here.....what state are you in that CC has them on their shelves? How is it? Any sound problem....low volume noise etc. Seem as sensitive with the analog pass being added.

Coupons are running out soon, hope they get it on the shelf here in Phx soon.

Thanks

[quote=Tempus;14063738]The DTT901 has arrived!

I know, because I used my other coupon on one at CC about 2 hours ago.

I haven't had a chance to hook it up to test it yet, but I wanted to be the first to give you all the news. Here's what I can tell you so far. The shelves at CC had a mix of DTT900s and DTT901s, and they don't seem to make a distinction between them. Whereas the DTT900s have their model number printed in large white letters on the top of the box, the DTT901s have it printed in black. Other than that, the packing box looks more or less identical. Here are some numbers from the label (minus the last three digits of the serial number):

DTT901 (CUSALZK) 84E00940
April 2008
S/N: 804SHSE435xxx

Peering through the vents, I can see that the tuner is an LG with a green sticker, which says:

EBL38878103
TDVG-H151F
804A19111
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post #1878 of 2449 Old 06-12-2008, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larry2506 View Post

I recently returned a DTT-900 that had the chirping audio problem in the left channel for a replacement from Zenith.

That unit, with a February 2008 manufacture date, also exhibited the problem. I called Zenith, they sent another mailing label, I dutifully boxed up the unit and sent it out. A week later, I receive a replacement for the replacement. Also a February 2008 manufacture date...also with the chirping audio glitch. Even thought I had sent along a note explaining exactly why I was returning the replacement, even though I had explained it to the somewhat clueless rep on the phone.

My question: should I try AGAIN to get a replacement, or am I SOL.

I have three other DTT-900 boxes, all with the April date of manufacture, and they are all fine.

Thanks.

I think we're SOL.
I've sent a November box in once and like you, got a February box back with a sticker that said something about a buffer being replaced. Same "chirp" sound that's like someone scratching a blackboard.
I don't think they are going to make this right.

Chris C
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post #1879 of 2449 Old 06-12-2008, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrider2 View Post

I think we're SOL.
I've sent a November box in once and like you, got a February box back with a sticker that said something about a buffer being replaced. Same "chirp" sound that's like someone scratching a blackboard.
I don't think they are going to make this right.

That's why I did a PCB swap myself from an April converter. Screw LG

Mad Scientist :)
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post #1880 of 2449 Old 06-12-2008, 05:19 AM
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My first question is:
What are the steps to switch (toggle) back and forth between Analog and Digital?
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post #1881 of 2449 Old 06-12-2008, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvropro View Post

That's why I did a PCB swap myself from an April converter. Screw LG

Yea, good idea! Kind of like the way we should be fighting terrorism....blow them up!
The old sayings ring true; "fight fire with fire" "do unto them as they do unto you" "an eye for an eye".
The yahoos (LG) rushed out the door a junk piece of hardware. Just like China, they keep sending us poison and unsafe products. I blame our government, they're too damn afraid they might hurt some foreign feelings, or upset some "New World Order" Company. The Governments job, according to the Constitution, is to "promote the general welfare, and provide for a common defense"..... They're failing on both counts in my eyes.
Of course a few words in this message will probably get flagged at the NSA, and I'll get my name on a list. I guess, in their eyes they are protecting me!

Big Brother is coming!

Chris C
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post #1882 of 2449 Old 06-12-2008, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpconard View Post

The way I read this recently, issue is that this is in fact the broadcast flag. The way I read it the broadcaster (NBC) can turn it on legally, but hardware and software don't have to be designed to recognize it.

Last week I turned to American Gladiators with XP MCE and it worked fine. I'm not sure if Dvico tuner was designed to recognize it or not. I hope not.

I too thought the broadcaster couldn't turn it on, but I am pretty sure that is not true.

The wikipedia entry for broadcast flag does seem to describe it that way too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_flag

While that may be true, it still seems to me more like an isolated incident of one network, applying it one time to one show and catching one CE product and then playing it down as a mistake rather than a test or worse.

I too ran out and bought pre-broadcast flag TV tuners for my MCE PC only to see the legislation fail in 2005. I have a few CPRM compliant DVD recorders as well that I use to record regularly, some with digital tuners in them that I record the downconverted HD signal from the OTA broadcasts. While they will impose copy protection on protected cable signals, as well noted on the DVD Recorder forum, I have never had a problem nor have I ever heard of an issue with the Broadcast Flag on OTA broadcasts until now.

While this is possible and could always change in the future, I just think it was being a little overhyped and I don't know why copy protection would effect the quality of these CECBs for viewing purposes anyway.

What me? HTPC!
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post #1883 of 2449 Old 06-12-2008, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CEB II View Post

The problem is those channels broadcasting an HDTV signal, particularly for shows actually in HD. The picture isn't any sharper than the SD channels, but the picture has a very annoying flicker or strobing brightness affect. Very annoying to watch.

My DTT900 does this too, or something like it, when I use the composite-video output to my LCD HDTV (a Panasonic TC-32LX50). It doesn't happen when I use the RF output to the TV, or composite-video to my DVD recorder.

It's especially noticeable with white text in on-screen graphics.
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post #1884 of 2449 Old 06-12-2008, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raddok View Post

I've purchased and returned a few DTT900s and am currently using this box. The picture quality is good overall, better than the analog cable that I used to have and way better than analog OTA which was unwatchable due to multi-path. Two minor PQ problems I have noticed are some twitter and horizontal stairstepping. Both issues are worse on 1080i channels, somewhat better on 720p, and don't really occur on standard def channels (well maybe the twitter occurs sometimes on SD channels).

The twitter, where horizontal lines flicker, is only really annoying during the tonight show. The horizontal stairstepping is fairly annoying during just about any hi-def sports.

I assume these issues are due to insufficient vertical filtering when downconverting hi-def stuff. I was wondering if anyone who has tried other CECBs has noticed this on other boxes as well.

I guess I could whine about dot-crawl as well but that is a known issue.

This sounds similar to what I was complaining about. The Today show was particularly bothersome.
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post #1885 of 2449 Old 06-12-2008, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cia_viewer View Post

My first question is:
What are the steps to switch (toggle) back and forth between Analog and Digital?

On Digital, OFF Analog.

Picked up a DTT901 at Circuit City.
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post #1886 of 2449 Old 06-12-2008, 11:24 AM
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Now that the 901's are out....those of you that will have the ability to test the 900's against the 901's.....I just purchased 2 April 900's at CC as coupons were about to expire and would like to know if the weak stereo audio output problem with the 900's has been addressed/corrected/improved in the 901's. I do not need pass thru but would like better audio output and have 27 days to return/exchange at CC.
Thanks,

JIM
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post #1887 of 2449 Old 06-12-2008, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L a r r y View Post

I have the Zenith DTT900, and with regard to volume, it varies from station to station. KPHO-DT, the CBS affiliate in Phoenix runs closest to the volume output of analog broadcasts on their channel 5-1, and about twice as loud as the rest of the Phoenix and Tucson market stations that I can get. KOLD-DT, the Tucson CBS affiliate on channel 13-1 is pretty much at the same volume as the rest of the market when both are carrying the same program.

Larry....I noticed the same here in Cave Creek....the weak stereo audio is a known issue with the 900 units but I don't understand why 5-1's audio output level is much higher than all the rest. Also, I noticed a difference in audio levels between 8-1,8-2 and 8-3.....you would think they would all have equal output levels but they don't. There is also a difference in audio level between commercials and programing on the same channel.

JIM
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post #1888 of 2449 Old 06-12-2008, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post

Larry....I noticed the same here in Cave Creek....the weak stereo audio is a known issue with the 900 units but I don't understand why 5-1's audio output level is much higher than all the rest. Also, I noticed a difference in audio levels between 8-1,8-2 and 8-3.....you would think they would all have equal output levels but they don't. There is also a difference in audio level between commercials and programing on the same channel.

Normally, this is all up to your local channel and is not an issue with a tuner or converter. In this area, the local CBS affiliate has consistently louder volume than the other 16 stations that the Zenith can receive.
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post #1889 of 2449 Old 06-12-2008, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post

would like to know if the weak stereo audio output problem with the 900's has been addressed/corrected/improved in the 901's.
Thanks,

Why do you feel the DTT900's stereo output is weak? Have you compared the 900's stereo output level to another device, such as an old VCR or TV with audio out?

The DTT900's stereo level is correct. It matches very well to my VCR, as well as the digital out on my Samsung DTB-H260 tuner. The problem is with the DTT900's mono out. THAT level is way too high.
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post #1890 of 2449 Old 06-12-2008, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildgoose View Post

Why do you feel the DTT900's stereo output is weak? Have you compared the 900's stereo output level to another device, such as an old VCR or TV with audio out?

The DTT900's stereo level is correct. It matches very well to my VCR, as well as the digital out on my Samsung DTB-H260 tuner. The problem is with the DTT900's mono out. THAT level is way too high.

Others have noted this issue as well. With 900's vol set to 100 I have to run the TV vol. twice as high to attain the same level of audio output previously experienced in analog without the converter box. My VCR has a much higher audio output level than the converter box....when using the VCR I can leave the TV vol set the same as when watching analog OTA. Not a big problem....just my observations!

JIM
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