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post #181 of 2451 Old 01-14-2008, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

Whenever they get around to releasing BLU-RAY (or HD-DVD) Recorders,
then you'll see HD capable DVR Recorders....

In the meantime, a PC (or DVCR) with an ATSC Tuner provides OTA HD record capability.

And TiVo/Slingbox just announced the (low cost) TR50 ATSC HD-DVR:
http://ces.cnet.com/8301-13855_1-9840910-67.html
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972197

The TR-50 is an Echostar product, the same people who make the Dish equipment. I predict subscription-free hard drive based HDTV recorders such as this one will saturate the market before Blue Ray or HD DVD recorders come down enough in price to compete, eliminating the market for BR or HD DVD recorders.

Enjoying crystal clear TV for free.


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post #182 of 2451 Old 01-14-2008, 10:42 PM
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^+1 - or IPTV will obviate the need for a HD or BR recorder.
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post #183 of 2451 Old 01-16-2008, 09:06 AM
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Fixed TiVo-->Echostar......way too many things swirling around in my head after CES2008....

Although external HDDs are leaping ahead to 2TB, all your long term recordings
will vanish in a flash WHEN (NOT IF) the DVR bites the dust.....

BD/HD-DVD Recorder will also appeal to many people who "collect" programs.
And many, many people still want the "poke-and-play" convenience of DVDs....esp for kidz.

Which is why On-Demand IPTV may be popular (esp. with millions of selections), but won't
eliminate need for "physical" storage options.


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post #184 of 2451 Old 01-16-2008, 01:21 PM
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Why continue the hype re 6th Gen LG chip? Based on what test results?????
The much bally-hooed 5th Gen LG/Zenith chip tested by CRC had several shortcomings.
The later "Gemini" used in Samsung prototype (probably ATI Theater chip) was far superior:
http://www.crc.ca/en/html/crc/home/r...broadcast/rtnt

There are many newer chips, most probably with even better performance...we just
haven't seen any published test results....yet...


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post #185 of 2451 Old 01-17-2008, 02:46 AM
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What good are these converters for watching HD OTA programming if the signal being output is analog? I ordered my certificate, but then read up about the converters. They do not have HD output connections even. I hope I am wrong, being I will need a ASTC tuner for my new projector.

Am I right or wrong?

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post #186 of 2451 Old 01-17-2008, 03:34 AM
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Quote:


What good are these converters for watching HD OTA programming if the signal being output is analog? I ordered my certificate, but then read up about the converters. They do not have HD output connections even. I hope I am wrong, being I will need a ASTC tuner for my new projector.

rgathright,
You are correct that the output is analog only for these boxes. The boxes in the coupon program are designed for conversion of OTA digital signals to older analog TVs only. They are very limited in features past that. I have a 15 yr old tv that I will be using it on in my exercise room to pick up local OTA.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

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post #187 of 2451 Old 01-17-2008, 05:39 AM
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rgathright - you obviously have done ZERO reading about the converter boxes and the whole purpose for them. Start with www.dtv2009.gov and go from there.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

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post #188 of 2451 Old 01-17-2008, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgathright View Post

What good are these converters for watching HD OTA programming if the signal being output is analog? I ordered my certificate, but then read up about the converters. They do not have HD output connections even. I hope I am wrong, being I will need a ASTC tuner for my new projector.

Am I right or wrong?

You are right. You have to know the difference between a converter and a dedicated HDTV tuner, such as the Samsung DTB-H260F. Converters are design to convert a digital signal to analog for older analog displays. Tuners are designed to output a HDTV digital signal (such as HDMI).

Sounds like you need a Samsung DTB-H260F.

Enjoying crystal clear TV for free.


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post #189 of 2451 Old 01-17-2008, 07:58 PM
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I'm looking for suggestions. I have a friend in New York City who currently has an analog TV, a DVD player, and a VCR, connected to rabbit ears. She is quite happy with this setup and quite upset about the upcoming Feb 2009 conversion. She wants the following capabilities (which she currently has via analog) after 2009:

1. Watch TV
2. Watch one channel and record another.
3. Go out for the evening and record several shows (one show at a time) and change channels between shows.

She does this all on her current analog setup. I have found a couple of digital DVD-recorders that will handle the recording part, but none of them seem to have two digital tuners which I think she will need to watch one channel and record another. A digital DVD-recorder plus a cheap converter would probably do the job, but she doesn't like clutter, and adding the converter to the TV, DVD-recorder, existing VCR setup on her bedroom dresser starts to get kind of Rube Goldberg - like.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
-barry
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post #190 of 2451 Old 01-17-2008, 08:10 PM
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Get a TiVoHD. No tape , no discs, a much better experience. And no clutter.

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post #191 of 2451 Old 01-17-2008, 08:35 PM
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HD-DVR prices should come down later this year...right now TiVo has a monopoly.


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post #192 of 2451 Old 01-18-2008, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by margoba View Post

I'm looking for suggestions. I have a friend in New York City who currently has an analog TV, a DVD player, and a VCR, connected to rabbit ears. She is quite happy with this setup and quite upset about the upcoming Feb 2009 conversion. She wants the following capabilities (which she currently has via analog) after 2009:

1. Watch TV
2. Watch one channel and record another.
3. Go out for the evening and record several shows (one show at a time) and change channels between shows.

She does this all on her current analog setup. I have found a couple of digital DVD-recorders that will handle the recording part, but none of them seem to have two digital tuners which I think she will need to watch one channel and record another. A digital DVD-recorder plus a cheap converter would probably do the job, but she doesn't like clutter, and adding the converter to the TV, DVD-recorder, existing VCR setup on her bedroom dresser starts to get kind of Rube Goldberg - like.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
-barry

The Echostar TR-50 OTA DVR should also fill the bill (with no monthly fee!).

See Here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972197

Brad

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post #193 of 2451 Old 01-18-2008, 09:20 PM
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This looks like a very good solution. I'll keep my eyes open in the late summer/fall.

Thanks,

-barry
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post #194 of 2451 Old 01-19-2008, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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NTIA: DTV-to-Analog Converter-Box Coupon Demand Slowing
DTV-to-Analog Converter-Box Coupon Requests Down to 70,000 per Day

By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 1/18/2008 11:25:00 AM

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Digital-TV-to-analog converter-box coupon requests have leveled off since the first rush at the program's Jan. 1 launch, according to the National Telecommunications & Information Administration, which is overseeing the program.

According to spokesman Todd Sedmak, more than 1.78 million applications have been received so far for a little over 3.3 million coupons, which means that almost everyone is still requesting the maximum of two $40 coupons per household. ...

http://www1.broadcastingcable.com/ar...CA6523834.html



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post #195 of 2451 Old 01-20-2008, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's how Retailers will actually handle customer purchases of the boxes:

Digital-to-Analog Converter Box Coupon Program
Coupon Redemption Alternatives


Contact the Retailer Support Center for more information at RSC@clcdtv.com or 866-296-1107

http://www.ntiadtv.gov/docs/Coupon_R...ternatives.pdf

Also see:

TV Converter Box Coupon Program
Coupon Redemption Functional Overview
January 4, 2008
http://www.ntiadtv.gov/docs/CouponRe...alOverview.pdf

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post #196 of 2451 Old 01-20-2008, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whidbey View Post

Shoot, looks like we all missed the boat...

LOL! Thanks, fixed the date. I'm the guy who writes the previous year on checks through January...

Gilbert
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post #197 of 2451 Old 01-23-2008, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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NTIA Approves Two GE Converter Boxes as Eligible for TV Converter Box Coupon Program

Business Wire: 2008-01-23 13:54:36

Quote:


Jasco Products Company, GE licensee of consumer electronic accessories, computer accessories, home electric products, and personal security and surveillance products, today announces the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) has approved the GE Smart Digital Converter Box and GE Digital Converter Box as eligible for the TV Converter Box Coupon Program. This certification ensures consumers may redeem the program's $40 coupon vouchers towards the purchase of GE Digital Converter Boxes at participating retailers. ...

- GE Smart Digital Converter Box (22729; MSRP $59.99) with Smart Digital Antenna interface

- GE Digital Converter Box (22730; MSRP $49.99) without Smart Digital Antenna interface

http://www.pr-inside.com/ntia-approv...es-r400099.htm



Strange looking "BOX"

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post #198 of 2451 Old 01-23-2008, 04:21 PM
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It's the electronics that count. Obviously - some "stylist" got his hands on the outside....


You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

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post #199 of 2451 Old 01-25-2008, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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NTIA's Baker: Converter Boxes Should Be on Shelves Feb. 18

By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 1/24/2008 6:01:00 PM

Quote:


... Baker said Thursday that she was still confident that digital-TV-to-analog converter-box manufacturers will have those boxes on the shelves by Feb. 18 (exactly one year before the DTV switch), when the NTIA has said it will start processing applications for coupons good toward the purchase of those boxes. ...

... Baker said that as of Wednesday [1/23/08], 3.7 million coupons had been applied for.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...dustryid=47170

NAB's Rehr Asks Retailers to Ensure that Converter Boxes Are on Shelves

By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 1/24/2008 6:55:00 PM

Quote:


National Association of Broadcasters president David Rehr wrote the CEO of Best Buy and the heads of seven other major retailers asking them to make sure that digital-TV-to-analog converter boxes are on the shelves by February, when the National Telecommunications and Information Administration has said that it plans to start processing applications for government-subsidized $40 coupons toward the purchase of those boxes. ...

... In his letter to Best Buy CEO Bradbury Anderson, ... Rehr said that since the company had taken a leadership role in DTV consumer education, it should match that leadership in getting boxes to the stores. "Given the heightened awareness of the coming transition," he wrote, according to a copy of the letter obtained by B&C, "it is our hope that no consumer walks into a Best Buy store, coupon in hand, without being able to purchase a coupon-eligible converter box. That scenario could cause great consumer confusion and consternation." ...

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...dustryid=47170

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post #200 of 2451 Old 01-25-2008, 05:41 PM
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I wonder if any of these new tuners will go into "scan mode" when in standby or turned off,to continally update the EPG.I've got a Humax box that does this,but it's useless as it's always locking up...pure junk.
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post #201 of 2451 Old 01-27-2008, 03:21 PM
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Wal-Mart already has the Magnavox TB100MW9 on its store shelves. There were at least 12 on the shelf today in Fairfax, VA. You can see the box on their web site at walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8283870 and check for inventory on your local store. Should be plenty of converter boxes when the coupons come in February.
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post #202 of 2451 Old 01-27-2008, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigberts View Post

Wal-Mart already has the Magnavox TB100MW9 on its store shelves. ...

Thanks for your post. This is the first one I've heard of that's actually in stock.

In addition, today I located an online vendor listing the following CECB:

PHILCO DIGITAL TV SET TOP CONVERTER BOX
DTV Digital-to-Analog Converter [TB100HH9] $48.36

http://www.emartinc.com/catalog/prod...ducts_id=38102

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post #203 of 2451 Old 01-28-2008, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigberts View Post

Wal-Mart already has the Magnavox TB100MW9 on its store shelves. There were at least 12 on the shelf today in Fairfax, VA. You can see the box on their web site at walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8283870 and check for inventory on your local store. Should be plenty of converter boxes when the coupons come in February.

Interesting that digital audio output is listed as a feature, even though this is supposedly prohibited in coupon-eligible boxes.
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post #204 of 2451 Old 01-28-2008, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke M View Post

Interesting that digital audio output is listed as a feature, even though this is supposedly prohibited in coupon-eligible boxes.

Digital audio is NOT a disqualifying feature.
Check out page 25 for list of permitted/disqualifying functions:
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frn...ule_031207.pdf


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post #205 of 2451 Old 01-28-2008, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

Digital audio is NOT a disqualifying feature.
Check out page 25 for list of permitted/disqualifying functions:
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frn...ule_031207.pdf

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/manufacturerFAQ.html

16. Are digital coaxial audio outputs or SPDIF (optical) outputs permitted on eligible converter boxes?

No. Technical Appendix 2, "Outputs" includes examples of disqualifying features. Digital coaxial and SPDIF optical outputs are not consistent with the statutory description of "converter box." (See Pub. L. 109-171, Section 3005(d) and Paragraph 55 of the Final Rule.)
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post #206 of 2451 Old 01-28-2008, 11:01 AM
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Which has more credibility....the actual final published rules....
or an FAQ on a website which was probably prepared while in the middle of
all that discussion you see preceeding the actual rules.....

Fol. PCWorld CES2008 report says Philco TB150HH9
supports digital audio (coax) as well as a Smart Antenna:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/2008...pcworld/140751
[Yes, the Magnavox and Philco are on the NTIA APPROVED list.]
http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/Converter_Box_Retailers.html

Could be Philips (Magnavox & Philco) are following the actual PUBLISHED rules.....
or WalMart & PCWorld info is incorrect.....

FYI: EnergyStar list for DTV Convert Boxes also addresses a few other features:
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/product..._prod_list.xls


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post #207 of 2451 Old 01-28-2008, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

Which has more credibility....the actual final published rules....
or an FAQ on a website which was probably prepared while in the middle of
all that discussion you see preceeding the actual rules.....

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything about digital audio output in the rules. Which is probably why it's a "FAQ".
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post #208 of 2451 Old 01-28-2008, 11:16 AM
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That didn't stop them from disqualifying it. The official lists says that the Magnavox is eligible.

ntiadtv.com/cecb_list.cfm

This PDF says nothing about disqualifying audio outputs.

ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/DTVmanufacturers.pdf

Digital, audio outputs go against the spirit the mandate, but such outputs were not specifically listed as a disqualifying feature in several documents. The FAQ is the only one that says otherwise.

They could have disabled 5.1 bitstreaming and forced 2.0 PCM to make it qualify. Component or even firewire would be far more useful, but of course they're not allowed. Digital coax is a gimmick.
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post #209 of 2451 Old 01-28-2008, 12:21 PM
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Most significant fact is that it did NOT make it into the "Disqualifying Feature"
column under "Outputs (Audio)".


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post #210 of 2451 Old 01-28-2008, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

Most significant fact is that it did NOT make it into the "Disqualifying Feature"
column under "Outputs (Audio)".

It's not listed as a permitted feature, either. It's not mentioned at all.
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