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post #91 of 156 Old 03-22-2009, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by afviolettes View Post

The system is a Panasonic SC-PT960 - according to the panasonic website, my system does support DTS - is this a function I need to enable in the menus or something?

Page 9 has the answer you seek:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panasonic SC-PT960 Manual Page 9 View Post

OPTICAL IN:This unit can decode the surround signals received
through cable TV box, digital broadcasting or satellite
broadcasts. Refer to your equipment's operating
instructions for details. Only Dolby Digital and PCM can
be played with this connection.

≥After making this connection, make settings to suit the
type of audio from your digital equipment (➜ 30).

The easiest solution for working audio on your Blu-ray version would be to go into your PS3's audio setup menu, find the DTS settings, and then switch it from 'Bitstream' to 'PCM/Internal Decode.' (I am not familiar with the PS3's menu, but these options should be present in some form.)

Enjoy!

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post #92 of 156 Old 03-22-2009, 08:45 PM
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AE Guy - thanks for finding that...

The setting was buried deep in a menu but I changed it to "Linear PCM" and it works like a charm!

So that begs the question - what kind of receiver would I need to "extract" the DTS audio from my PS3? Or does such a combination not exist ?
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post #93 of 156 Old 03-22-2009, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by afviolettes View Post

AE Guy - thanks for finding that...

Kinda bitter sweet, I bought this system for this reason and it can't even do it the way I want... hahaha guess I need to learn me how to read ...

You're welcome.

There might also be a problem with letting the PS3 do the decoding to PCM. If your optical connection had the ability to bitstream DTS, you would have received the core DTS 5.1 surround signal included within the Lossless Master Audio track, but the PS3 might only send the track as 2.0 channel PCM instead of the full 5.1/6.1. This is because the PS3 doesn't know to decode just the DTS core rather than the full DTS-HD Master Audio to PCM, and optical connections do not support the necessary bitrates for this fully decoded track.

Regular DTS tracks should be fine (just possibly not DTS-HD MA tracks).

See if your PS3 does what I described above. If so, check the PS3 for any way to Re-mix the DTS track to Dolby Digital for bitstreaming. If not, then you might have to find a new means of hooking up your audio equipment to get full 5.1 surround from Blu-ray discs that contain only English DTS-HD Master Audio tracks.

Sorry for the further bad news, and I hope you find a good solution!

Quote:
Originally Posted by afviolettes View Post

So that begs the question - what kind of receiver would I need to "extract" the DTS audio from my PS3? Or does such a combination not exist ?

I would take this question to the Receiver section of AVSForum, where you should receive plenty of advice. With your current speaker setup (assuming they are the ones included in the Panasonic SC-PT960 set), I would think you wouldn't require anything near top-of-the-line to maintain your current satisfaction with the added bonus of DTS bitstreaming over optical.

Be careful, though. Upgrading can become contagious, especially if you hang around these forums.


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post #94 of 156 Old 03-23-2009, 04:02 AM
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I thought that, other than the opening scene with the helicopters, and then the closing fire, the sound was not anything demo worthy or very impressive.

In comparing Kung Fu Panda audio to this, KFP definitely had a more aggressive and enveloping mix with more use of surrounds.

By the way, my receiver (Onkyo 805) showed DTS HD Mster 5.1 (not 6.1). Although some people have mentioned 6.1 for this. Does DTS HD mster even come in 6.1 flavor?

Decent movie, but not worth a 2nd listen for the audio in my book.
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post #95 of 156 Old 03-23-2009, 05:40 PM
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What about the train sequence and any of a number of other scenes? The sound design is fantastic IMO.

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post #96 of 156 Old 03-23-2009, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

What about the train sequence and any of a number of other scenes? The sound design is fantastic IMO.

I'll review again, but nothing struck me as anywhere near as good as KFP, where I heard more discrete effects and more varied bass (compared to Bolt) in many scenes, such as:

1. the furious 5 competition scene in the beginning;

2. the training scene

3. the Tai Lung escape scene

4. the fight with the chopstix

5. the end fight
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post #97 of 156 Old 03-23-2009, 08:43 PM
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I'm not saying KFP was bad at all...it was amazing. But I found Bolt very engaging as well, and they're different types of movies (other than being animated), so their sound designs are different.

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post #98 of 156 Old 03-23-2009, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

By the way, my receiver (Onkyo 805) showed DTS HD Mster 5.1 (not 6.1). Although some people have mentioned 6.1 for this. Does DTS HD mster even come in 6.1 flavor?

Yes, it does, but Bolt is not a true 6.1 discrete track. It is 5.1 that is encoded with a matrixed rear channel. Some early versions of the dts-HD decoder do not recognize all the flags.

The only 6.1 true discrete MA track I am aware of is the original X3 Blu-ray.

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post #99 of 156 Old 03-24-2009, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

Yes, it does, but Bolt is not a true 6.1 discrete track. It is 5.1 that is encoded with a matrixed rear channel. Some early versions of the dts-HD decoder do not recognize all the flags.

The only 6.1 true discrete MA track I am aware of is the original X3 Blu-ray.

How does running PLIIx effect the sound then? I wonder if it impacts it negatively -- as I was running PLIIx so all my speakers (7.1 were engaged).
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post #100 of 156 Old 03-24-2009, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

How does running PLIIx effect the sound then? I wonder if it impacts it negatively -- as I was running PLIIx so all my speakers (7.1 were engaged).

From my understanding, PLIIx should not cause ANY problem and will basically get you to the same place as those processors that do recognize the flag. From what I understand, the matrixed rear channel (6.1) is just part of the side surrounds when the pre/pro determines it is 5.1 and using PLIIx gets the matrixed rear surround.

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post #101 of 156 Old 03-24-2009, 10:19 AM
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On a 5.1 or 5.1 ES/EX track, PL IIx seems to do a better job of creating a 7.1 ambiance.

I was watching "War Inc." which has a 5.1 track. They have a tank fire an explosive in the surrounds. In PLIIx it sounded like it went from the back left to the side left to the front left when the projectile flew to the on-screen action and blew up.

Not as holosonic and realistic as a true 7.1 mix, but still pretty neat.

Top Gun also has a DTS-MA 6.1 discrete track on Blu-ray. It's the same 6.1 mix (encoded as DTS-ES 6.1) as on the DVD, but lossless and 24 bit.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #102 of 156 Old 03-24-2009, 10:39 AM
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Just watched this on my PS3 a couple of days ago and was truly amazed at the pic and sound quality. Literally blew me off the water. Great story etc.

I find it interesting that majority (if not all) of all the cartoon blu ray (kung-fu panda, cars, meet the robinsons, ratatouillie(sp), etc) are all really good quality pic and sound compared to non cartoons.
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post #103 of 156 Old 03-24-2009, 05:02 PM
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Great review Ralph and thanks to you there are a few less coins in my mattress and my piggy bank needs some glue.

With that being said I watched the Blu Ray copy last night and then today I tried out the freebie plain vanilla DVD.

Too be honest I have seen some movies on DVD that when upconverted look quite similar to their Blu Ray cousins, this was not however the case with Bolt.

The picture quality difference is quite stunning, almost akin to my old LaserDisc VHS comparisons I was known to spring on unsuspecting house guests back in the day.

Did Disney down res the tagalong DVD of Bolt for this release?, the video bit rate for the DVD looks to be about normal for MPEG2 around 4 or 5 mbps, with the Blu Ray in the 30 to 40mbps range.

Anyways a must pick up title for those of you still seated on the fence.
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post #104 of 156 Old 03-26-2009, 08:51 AM
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Just finished watching this film and I loved it. Wins on counts for me PQ,AQ and even Story. For me I enjoyed this more than Kung Fu Panda it was great. Your score is spot in the 100 category it belongs.

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post #105 of 156 Old 03-26-2009, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post

You say two coasters now, until you actually put it on for your kids in the other room to watch, unless of course your kids are 25 years old and don't want to watch the movie.

You are definately in the minority opinion on this one. I for one am glad I DON'T have to spend $28 on the Blu-ray and THEN another $20 on the SD-DVD if I want another copy for my son's room.

Spot on! I gave mine to my 5 year old daughter who watches it in the lounge room. Another advantage of having the SD version not many people have all yet migrated a BD player in there homes and you can go half each in buying the movie you keep the BD and they have the SD. Win win situation.

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post #106 of 156 Old 03-26-2009, 07:43 PM
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Just finished watching this with my wife and kids. The picture, sound, and story where excellent.

Then I decided to put in the DVD version just to compare to the blu ray (since I'm fairly new to the whole blue ray having purchased a PS3 around 3 weeks ago). It was surprising that I could hardly tell a difference between the two at our watching distance of 9' and not much better up at 1'.

My setup is a 42" Samsung HLR-4266W (720p/1080i) connected via HDMI cable to my PS3 setup to display 1080i(720p didn't help either).

Am I supposed to be seeing a significant difference between the two formats?

Could it be that my TV isn't up to showcasing the real quality of blu ray?
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post #107 of 156 Old 03-26-2009, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by zspec1 View Post


Could it be that my TV isn't up to showcasing the real quality of blu ray?

Yes, your benefit with Blu-ray will be better, but marginally so. When I had a 720p projector, I thought Blu-ray (and HD DVD) looked better than DVD, but not by a huge margin. When I got a 1080p projector, I was really blown away by the difference. Another item to note, animated DVDs look pretty damn good so the comparison to Blu-ray will be slight versus a live-action film.

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post #108 of 156 Old 03-26-2009, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by zspec1 View Post

Just finished watching this with my wife and kids. The picture, sound, and story where excellent.

Then I decided to put in the DVD version just to compare to the blu ray (since I'm fairly new to the whole blue ray having purchased a PS3 around 3 weeks ago). It was surprising that I could hardly tell a difference between the two at our watching distance of 9' and not much better up at 1'.

My setup is a 42" Samsung HLR-4266W (720p/1080i) connected via HDMI cable to my PS3 setup to display 1080i(720p didn't help either).

Am I supposed to be seeing a significant difference between the two formats?

Could it be that my TV isn't up to showcasing the real quality of blu ray?

It's the TV set. I just checked it on web and it is a 720p light engine. Although it can accept 1080, it's max resolution is still only 720.

Now the difference in numbers may not seem like much, but you have to remember that is only the vertical resolution. You also have to factor the horizontal resolution which is only 1280. When you consider the two dimensions are put together to create your pixel grid a 720p set only has about 1M pixels, where a 1080p set(1920x1080) has over 2M. Its a 100% increase in resolution.

720p is fine, but you are not going to see what Blu-ray is truly capable of until you:
1. get a 1080p and
a. sit closer with the same size or
b. go with a larger screen.

I have a 100-inch 1080p front projection setup. There is no comparison between DVD and Blu-ray.

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post #109 of 156 Old 03-26-2009, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Yes, your benefit with Blu-ray will be better, but marginally so. When I had a 720p projector, I thought Blu-ray (and HD DVD) looked better than DVD, but not by a huge margin. When I got a 1080p projector, I was really blown away by the difference. Another item to note, animated DVDs look pretty damn good so the comparison to Blu-ray will be slight versus a live-action film.

Ahhh now we know why Dave thought HD DVD was as just as capable as Blu... he was only using a 720p projector.

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post #110 of 156 Old 03-26-2009, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Yes, your benefit with Blu-ray will be better, but marginally so. When I had a 720p projector, I thought Blu-ray (and HD DVD) looked better than DVD, but not by a huge margin. When I got a 1080p projector, I was really blown away by the difference. Another item to note, animated DVDs look pretty damn good so the comparison to Blu-ray will be slight versus a live-action film.

Wow, extremely quick reply. Thank you very much for the information. I'll be watching Quantum of solace tomorrow to compare. In the meanwhile, time to start researching for a new display...
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post #111 of 156 Old 03-26-2009, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

It's the TV set. I just checked it on web and it is a 720p light engine. Although it can accept 1080, it's max resolution is still only 720.

Now the difference in numbers may not seem like much, but you have to remember that is only the vertical resolution. You also have to factor the horizontal resolution which is only 1280. When you consider the two dimensions are put together to create your pixel grid a 720p set only has about 1M pixels, where a 1080p set(1920x1080) has over 2M. Its a 100% increase in resolution.

720p is fine, but you are not going to see what Blu-ray is truly capable of until you:
1. get a 1080p and
a. sit closer with the same size or
b. go with a larger screen.

I have a 100-inch 1080p front projection setup. There is no comparison between DVD and Blu-ray.

Thank you, I'll definitely be looking to get a better display within the next few weeks. Any recommendations are welcome, preferably no greater than $1500.
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post #112 of 156 Old 03-26-2009, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

Ahhh now we know why Dave thought HD DVD was as just as capable as Blu... he was only using a 720p projector.

Tok,

For 99% of the people, they won't be able to tell the difference between HD DVD and Blu-ray even with a 1080p front projection setup. Regardless, I didn't care which one won because I just wanted HD on disc in a viable format. At the time, I was told by many sources there were production problems with Blu-ray, and that concerned me. Luckily, most of those have been completely ironed out, although there's the occasional hiccup. For example, Bill Hunt posted this at Blu-ray.com (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...stcount=4068):

Quote:


That was a bit of a different issue. Sometimes, there might be a production related issue on the Blu-ray, or replication or what have you, like Quo Vadis. But the point is, for most of their key titles going forward, the plan is to release them at the same time.

There still isn't a lot of production capability, but that's changing every month and things are on the right track. I held to my word and said I would support the winning format, and I have. I'm just happy with HD on optical disc and I think Blu-ray has gotten its act together. In hindsight, Toshiba never had a chance going at it alone--much like Sony and Betamax in the 1980's.

Regardless, I don't want to rehash the past about the format war. It's over and the better format won with higher capacity and the greater peak bitrate--the two of the three most important things to me (replication being the third).

On a separate note about PQ issues between the formats...I reviewed mainly Warner, Paramount, and Universal discs on HD DVD (and their BD titles), so I didn't get a chance to look at very many FOX, Sony, and Disney titles due to time constraints (I do have a day job and have to sleep every now and then), so when comparing the BDs and HD DVD's of Warner titles, there were no differences (they were the same encodes). With Paramount, they used different encodes with the same masters, but the differences were minimal on most titles (especially with a 720p projector). Since BD has won, I've been able to review titles from virtually every studio by writing for UAV and Home Theater Magazine exclusively (my first Home Theater review will be in next months issue), so I've have a greater appreciation for what BD can do compared to the crap Warner was releasing. Some titles that I thought looked pretty good on HD DVD, look poor by comparison now, especially when comparing Universal HD DVD titles to their BD counterparts...the BD's look MUCH better in most cases.

Anyway..sorry to bring up the past

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post #113 of 156 Old 03-26-2009, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

I thought that, other than the opening scene with the helicopters, and then the closing fire, the sound was not anything demo worthy or very impressive.

In comparing Kung Fu Panda audio to this, KFP definitely had a more aggressive and enveloping mix with more use of surrounds.

By the way, my receiver (Onkyo 805) showed DTS HD Mster 5.1 (not 6.1). Although some people have mentioned 6.1 for this. Does DTS HD mster even come in 6.1 flavor?

Decent movie, but not worth a 2nd listen for the audio in my book.

Got to agree with some of what you said. While this film has bass galore in some scenes, at other moments where you'd expect, it was missing. I actually found the heliocopter and highway chase to deliver a bit less than expected, the train sequence delivered like I figured and so did the fire at the end. However the main issue I found is that it just didn't seem to have fine resolution. While there was ambience, it seemed strangely less involving than i'd imagine.

Now in comparison to a film like KUNG FU PANDA, there was never a moment in that film where I felt something was missing. The entire 5.1 was fully engaged, yet it never distracted you from looking at the screen and moreso, you could hear every audio detail going on in that film, I can't say the same for BOLT.

Still in all a pretty good mix, like you i'm just not giving it the high grades others seem to want to give.
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post #114 of 156 Old 03-27-2009, 02:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Tok,

For 99% of the people, they won't be able to tell the difference between HD DVD and Blu-ray even with a 1080p front projection setup. Regardless, I didn't care which one won because I just wanted HD on disc in a viable format. At the time, I was told by many sources there were production problems with Blu-ray, and that concerned me. Luckily, most of those have been completely ironed out, although there's the occasional hiccup. For example, Bill Hunt posted this at Blu-ray.com (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...stcount=4068):



There still isn't a lot of production capability, but that's changing every month and things are on the right track. I held to my word and said I would support the winning format, and I have. I'm just happy with HD on optical disc and I think Blu-ray has gotten its act together. In hindsight, Toshiba never had a chance going at it alone--much like Sony and Betamax in the 1980's.

Regardless, I don't want to rehash the past about the format war. It's over and the better format won with higher capacity and the greater peak bitrate--the two of the three most important things to me (replication being the third).

On a separate note about PQ issues between the formats...I reviewed mainly Warner, Paramount, and Universal discs on HD DVD (and their BD titles), so I didn't get a chance to look at very many FOX, Sony, and Disney titles due to time constraints (I do have a day job and have to sleep every now and then), so when comparing the BDs and HD DVD's of Warner titles, there were no differences (they were the same encodes). With Paramount, they used different encodes with the same masters, but the differences were minimal on most titles (especially with a 720p projector). Since BD has won, I've been able to review titles from virtually every studio by writing for UAV and Home Theater Magazine exclusively (my first Home Theater review will be in next months issue), so I've have a greater appreciation for what BD can do compared to the crap Warner was releasing. Some titles that I thought looked pretty good on HD DVD, look poor by comparison now, especially when comparing Universal HD DVD titles to their BD counterparts...the BD's look MUCH better in most cases.

Anyway..sorry to bring up the past

Greetings,

No problem but let's leave it there..


Cheers,

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post #115 of 156 Old 03-27-2009, 06:45 AM
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Greetings,

No problem but let's leave it there..


Cheers,

Agreed!

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post #116 of 156 Old 03-27-2009, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Tok,

For 99% of the people, they won't be able to tell the difference between HD DVD and Blu-ray even with a 1080p front projection setup. Regardless, I didn't care which one won because I just wanted HD on disc in a viable format. At the time, I was told by many sources there were production problems with Blu-ray, and that concerned me. Luckily, most of those have been completely ironed out, although there's the occasional hiccup. For example, Bill Hunt posted this at Blu-ray.com (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...stcount=4068):



There still isn't a lot of production capability, but that's changing every month and things are on the right track. I held to my word and said I would support the winning format, and I have. I'm just happy with HD on optical disc and I think Blu-ray has gotten its act together. In hindsight, Toshiba never had a chance going at it alone--much like Sony and Betamax in the 1980's.

Regardless, I don't want to rehash the past about the format war. It's over and the better format won with higher capacity and the greater peak bitrate--the two of the three most important things to me (replication being the third).

On a separate note about PQ issues between the formats...I reviewed mainly Warner, Paramount, and Universal discs on HD DVD (and their BD titles), so I didn't get a chance to look at very many FOX, Sony, and Disney titles due to time constraints (I do have a day job and have to sleep every now and then), so when comparing the BDs and HD DVD's of Warner titles, there were no differences (they were the same encodes). With Paramount, they used different encodes with the same masters, but the differences were minimal on most titles (especially with a 720p projector). Since BD has won, I've been able to review titles from virtually every studio by writing for UAV and Home Theater Magazine exclusively (my first Home Theater review will be in next months issue), so I've have a greater appreciation for what BD can do compared to the crap Warner was releasing. Some titles that I thought looked pretty good on HD DVD, look poor by comparison now, especially when comparing Universal HD DVD titles to their BD counterparts...the BD's look MUCH better in most cases.

Anyway..sorry to bring up the past

Dave,

Don't take what I said too seriously. I was just having a little fun. I was Blu from the beginning mainly also due to the 2 advantages you mentioned (peak rate and dataspace). I know HD DVD was a little more refined out of the gate, but when it came raw capabilities, the ability of BD to have HD Video with lossless audio on a large majority of titles is what convinced me. And that was all due to dataspace and bandwidth.

Hope you don't think I was attacking you.

My jaw is on the floor with many of these high profile Disney releases and other recent computer animated titles like KFP and Madagascar 1 and 2. Coming from Laserdisc many years ago, BD is the format many of us hoped we would have one day.

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post #117 of 156 Old 03-27-2009, 02:20 PM
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I didn't take it as an attack, but wanted to clarify my position (I got your joke because of the grin). No harm, no foul

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post #118 of 156 Old 03-28-2009, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by davcole View Post

Got to agree with some of what you said. While this film has bass galore in some scenes, at other moments where you'd expect, it was missing. I actually found the heliocopter and highway chase to deliver a bit less than expected, the train sequence delivered like I figured and so did the fire at the end. However the main issue I found is that it just didn't seem to have fine resolution. While there was ambience, it seemed strangely less involving than i'd imagine.

Now in comparison to a film like KUNG FU PANDA, there was never a moment in that film where I felt something was missing. The entire 5.1 was fully engaged, yet it never distracted you from looking at the screen and moreso, you could hear every audio detail going on in that film, I can't say the same for BOLT.

Still in all a pretty good mix, like you i'm just not giving it the high grades others seem to want to give.

I just watched it again yesterday -- alone -- with full focus on sound. I also think part of the issue I have with the audio, is the music in some of the action scenes almost overwhelms, where it takes away from the action sounds. Also, the surrounds are more subtle then they should be at times.
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post #119 of 156 Old 03-28-2009, 05:21 AM
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Yes, it does, but Bolt is not a true 6.1 discrete track. It is 5.1 that is encoded with a matrixed rear channel. Some early versions of the dts-HD decoder do not recognize all the flags.

The only 6.1 true discrete MA track I am aware of is the original X3 Blu-ray.

Why does the menu itself on the blu-ray say DTS 5.1 (if it is supposed to be 6.1)?

Go to audio setup on the disc -- it shows DTS 5.1
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post #120 of 156 Old 03-28-2009, 08:45 AM
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Ralph,

Once again we're on the same page regarding the PQ of this amazing transfer. Thanks for the excellent review!

The most impressive virtue of this title was the unbelievable DEPTH, which in turn added a REALISM to the movie that I can't remember seeing in any other animated title. I hope this is what we can expect in future releases from Disney, Pixar, et al.

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