Transformers: Dark of the Moon (Blu-ray) Official AVSForum Review - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 06:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jamieva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Midlothian, VA
Posts: 2,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Anyody grab this one this morning yet? I'm getting it on the way home tonight.
jamieva is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 08:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
vpn75's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 22
My copy arrived from Amazon this morning. Really like the embossed slip-cover!

Should probably warn the neighbors before I fire this up tonight

PSN/XBOX Live: Destro75
BattleNet Tag: BaronessMD#1680

Steam: vpnath

Gaming PC: i7 3770K OC 4.2Ghz, 16GB RAM, EVGA GTX 670 FTW Dual-SLI

vpn75 is online now  
post #93 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 08:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JamE55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,192
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by vpn75 View Post

My copy arrived from Amazon this morning. Really like the embossed slip-cover!

Should probably warn the neighbors before I fire this up tonight

How did you get your copy this morning when the official release is actually today? Did they ship it yesterday for overnight delivery or something? Mine just shipped out today and due to arrive next week.
JamE55 is offline  
post #94 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 08:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
vpn75's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamE55 View Post

How did you get your copy this morning when the official release is actually today? Did they ship it yesterday for overnight delivery or something? Mine just shipped out today and due to arrive next week.

I have Amazon Prime and I usually get my preorders on the release date even with the 2-day shipping. They usually ship out the night before and I guess I'm close to a distribution center or something because I normally get them on the next day.

PSN/XBOX Live: Destro75
BattleNet Tag: BaronessMD#1680

Steam: vpnath

Gaming PC: i7 3770K OC 4.2Ghz, 16GB RAM, EVGA GTX 670 FTW Dual-SLI

vpn75 is online now  
post #95 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 08:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
shadowcaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I kinda wish they had included a DTS-HD audio track.

"Talk to me Goose"
shadowcaster is offline  
post #96 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
Blu-ray Reviewer
 
Ralph Potts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Middletown NY
Posts: 9,165
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowcaster View Post

I kinda wish they had included a DTS-HD audio track.

Greetings,

You won't miss it...

Regards,

Ralph C. Potts
Blu-ray Reviews
AVS Forum

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ralph Potts is online now  
post #97 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 08:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
shadowcaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post

Greetings,

You won't miss it...

Regards,

Ralph, I always miss it. I'm just not a fan of dialnorm and DRC.

"Talk to me Goose"
shadowcaster is offline  
post #98 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 09:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
William's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowcaster View Post

Ralph, I always miss it. I'm just not a fan of dialnorm and DRC.

Dialog normalization is determined but the encoder engineer and DTS MA has it available also. The only problem was TrueHD decoders defaulted to -31db instead of -27db (I think) and "lazy" or uninformed engineers just left it there. I believe that has been changed and now it's it's set to -27db default.

Also by DRC do you mean dynamic range compression? If so that is something that COULD be applied pre in-coding but has nothing to do with TrueHD (unless you use Night Mode) or DTS MA.

If you run into a TrueHD BD that has DN set to -31db just raise your volume control 4db.

I'm willing to bet $s to doughnuts that Transformers WILL NOT have the DN set to -31db.
William is offline  
post #99 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 09:11 AM
Newbie
 
djflex40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The sound is ok not a perfect 10 to me,, wish it was in dts hd,hope the special edition will be in dts hd,,not dolbyhd,,
djflex40 is offline  
post #100 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 09:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
William's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by djflex40 View Post

The sound is ok not a perfect 10 to me,, wish it was in dts hd,hope the special edition will be in dts hd,,not dolbyhd,,

TrueHD = DTS MA = LPCM. There is NO difference in the data stream after decoding between any of them and they are 100% identical. Any perceived differences is pur imagination.
William is offline  
post #101 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 09:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
GoCaboNow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,990
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 233
This will be a blind buy today. I hope it is better than ROTF.

Location: Beaverton, Oregon

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
GoCaboNow is offline  
post #102 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 11:18 AM
Advanced Member
 
djkest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

This will be a blind buy today. I hope it is better than ROTF.

I think i'll be doing this too. The Buy Buy exclusive embossed slipcover is too tempting to pass up. I probably won't watch the special features anyway (doesn't have any). Unfortunately this is the type of movie I don't think my wife would sit through. But this is the type of thing that surround sound setups are "made" for after all.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
;
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
;

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
djkest is offline  
post #103 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 12:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
taxman48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Picked mine up today at noon at BB, lots of people with it on the checkout line. Have to make time this weekend to watch it. It's a busy sports weekend between BB playoffs, Giants, Jets..

taxman48 is online now  
post #104 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
Blu-ray Reviewer
 
Ralph Potts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Middletown NY
Posts: 9,165
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxman48 View Post

Picked mine up today at noon at BB, lots of people with it on the checkout line. Have to make time this weekend to watch it. It's a busy sports weekend between BB playoffs, Giants, Jets..

Greetings,

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts Matt..

Regards,

Ralph C. Potts
Blu-ray Reviews
AVS Forum

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ralph Potts is online now  
post #105 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 01:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
Htdude14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 718
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Picked up my copy, but missed out on the give aways, FS had a Bumblee car and BB had a T-shirt but both were out of stock by 11am.
Should be a good weekend in the HT
Htdude14 is offline  
post #106 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 02:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadowcaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

TrueHD = DTS MA = LPCM. There is NO difference in the data stream after decoding between any of them and they are 100% identical. Any perceived differences is pur imagination.

I don't believe so William.

This from Dolby's site :

"Additional Dolby TrueHD Features:

Expands metadata support to give content creators advanced control over audio playback

Supports independent two-channel integration of “artist’s mix” content into the bitstream

Maintains constant volume levels when changing between Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital programming via dialogue normalization

Includes dynamic range control, enabling reduced peak volume levels without the loss of overall sound quality"

It's a matter of personal taste, I know, and the online preferences are certainly split on this.

"Talk to me Goose"
shadowcaster is offline  
post #107 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 02:21 PM
Senior Member
 
wkingincharge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maryland Area
Posts: 277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Got my copy from BB when they opened. I personally liked what I heard so far just jumping through a few scenes from Dolby nothing against DTS. This is a paramount film so I am hoping it blows me away like Star Trek did A/V wise.

Enjoy All!!!
wkingincharge is offline  
post #108 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 02:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jamieva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Midlothian, VA
Posts: 2,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Wife grabbed the Blu Ray/DVD/digital set at BB this afternoon she said lines were long with almost everyone in line getting it.
jamieva is offline  
post #109 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 03:58 PM
Newbie
 
stuzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Caved in and finally bought a Blu-Ray player today. (LG BD630) $88 at Walmart Got the Original Star Wars trilogy and the new Transformers- didn't even realize it was just released today until now. Previewed the intro and the sound and picture is amazing. Still have the first Transformers on HD-DVD and that is probably the best hd movie I've owned until now!. Will watch Darkofthemoon this weekend for sure. Joined avs today/first post/ hello everyone.

blu-ray nub
stuzu is offline  
post #110 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
Blu-ray Reviewer
 
Ralph Potts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Middletown NY
Posts: 9,165
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuzu View Post

Caved in and finally bought a Blu-Ray player today. (LG BD630) $88 at Walmart Got the Original Star Wars trilogy and the new Transformers- didn't even realize it was just released today until now. Previewed the intro and the sound and picture is amazing. Still have the first Transformers on HD-DVD and that is probably the best hd movie I've owned until now!. Will watch Darkofthemoon this weekend for sure. Joined avs today/first post/ hello everyone.

Greetings,

Congrats stuzu!

Welcome to AVS and Blu-ray..

Regards,

Ralph C. Potts
Blu-ray Reviews
AVS Forum

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ralph Potts is online now  
post #111 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 04:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mpray1983's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Delaware, philly
Posts: 2,349
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Anyone else find the bass lacking in the ULF department? I was hoping for demo quality House shaking bass that will give my subs a workout but I was left disappointed and I'm a huge transformers fanboy. I saw a measurement that another member took and it looked like it was filtered below 30hz. Not nearly enough bass to contend with the likes of tron legacy or WOTW. This is why I would not given this a score of 100. Seems like a movie mixed for the masses. Other than that it was a visual spectacle though.
Mpray1983 is offline  
post #112 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 06:07 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
gwsat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 14,633
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 198 Post(s)
Liked: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

TrueHD = DTS MA = LPCM. There is NO difference in the data stream after decoding between any of them and they are 100% identical. Any perceived differences is pur imagination.

You beat me to it. Lossless audio is lossless audio no matter the decoding method. That said, I could not agree more heartily with Ralph's assessment of the 7.1 TrueHD lossless audio track on the Transformers 3 disc produced what was arguably the best sound I have ever heard. It simply couldn't have been better. The video was equally awesome, in a class with Avatar, which, until tonight was the best I had seen. I'm sorry now I didn't take the advice other posters gave in another thread that T3 should really be seen in a 3D IMAX theater.

I thought the film was helped immeasurably by several members of the Coen Brothers Stock Company, John Turturro, Frances McDormand, and John Malkovich. The cast was buttressed by the wonderful Alan Tudyk and Ken Jeong in all to brief performances. Unfortunately, though, Shia LaBeouf was as awful as ever. It's a tossup as to whether he is more grotesquely inappropriate as a man of action or a romantic leading man. Either way, he's awful.

On the plus side the film's essential silliness and the awfulness of LaBeouf were moderated by a strong supporting cast and, as noted above, video and audio that were a feast for the eyes and ears. 7 Stars out of 10, which is about as good as it gets from me for any movie directed by Michael Bay and starring Shia LaBoef.
gwsat is offline  
post #113 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 06:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mpray1983's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Delaware, philly
Posts: 2,349
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

You beat me to it. Lossless audio is lossless audio no matter the decoding method. That said, I could not agree more heartily with Ralph's assessment of the 7.1 TrueHD lossless audio track on the Transformers 3 disc produced what was arguably the best sound I have ever heard. It simply couldn't have been better. The video was equally awesome, in a class with Avatar, which, until tonight was the best I had seen. I'm sorry now I didn't take the advice other posters gave in another thread that T3 should really be seen in a 3D IMAX theater.

I thought the film was helped immeasurably by several members of the Coen Brothers Stock Company, John Turturro, Frances McDormand, and John Malkovich. The cast was buttressed by the wonderful Alan Tudyk and Ken Jeong in all to brief performances. Unfortunately, though, Shia LaBeouf was as awful as ever. It's a tossup as to whether he is more grotesquely inappropriate as a man of action or a romantic leading man. Either way, he's awful.

On the plus side the film's essential silliness and the awfulness of LaBeouf were moderated by a strong supporting cast and, as noted above, video and audio that were a feast for the eyes and ears. 7 Stars out of 10, which is about as good as it gets from me for any movie directed by Michael Bay and starring Shia LaBoef.

Didnt I tell you to go see it at IMAX?
Mpray1983 is offline  
post #114 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 07:37 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
gwsat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 14,633
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 198 Post(s)
Liked: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

Didnt I tell you to go see it at IMAX?

Could be. As noted, I'm sorry I didn't see it in 3D IMAX but I had been burned so often by 3D presentations that I resisted.
gwsat is offline  
post #115 of 284 Old 09-30-2011, 08:35 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rdgrimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 16,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 221
Netflix let me have Transformers 3. It really does have speaker-busting 7.1 audio that's a wonder to behold. PQ is also top notch.
Considering how low the bar was set by the #2 movie, it's hollow praise to say that this is a better story. It is, but just barely. I'm baffled by the apparent willingness in these 2 movies to just ignore any requirement for a coherent story.
Oh well, it's real pretty and sounds great, that's all that's required, right?
rdgrimes is online now  
post #116 of 284 Old 10-01-2011, 04:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
YeuEmMaiMai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,076
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
got this disk and you all forgot to mention the best thing about this release.......MOVIE ONLY NO EXTRA BS... like 15 mins of trailers and what not before you can even get to the movie......

Strong or weak in the end we are all dead
YeuEmMaiMai is offline  
post #117 of 284 Old 10-01-2011, 04:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
YeuEmMaiMai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,076
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

You beat me to it. Lossless audio is lossless audio no matter the decoding method. That said, I could not agree more heartily with Ralph's assessment of the 7.1 TrueHD lossless audio track on the Transformers 3 disc produced what was arguably the best sound I have ever heard. It simply couldn't have been better. The video was equally awesome, in a class with Avatar, which, until tonight was the best I had seen. I'm sorry now I didn't take the advice other posters gave in another thread that T3 should really be seen in a 3D IMAX theater.

I thought the film was helped immeasurably by several members of the Coen Brothers Stock Company, John Turturro, Frances McDormand, and John Malkovich. The cast was buttressed by the wonderful Alan Tudyk and Ken Jeong in all to brief performances. Unfortunately, though, Shia LaBeouf was as awful as ever. It's a tossup as to whether he is more grotesquely inappropriate as a man of action or a romantic leading man. Either way, he's awful.

On the plus side the film's essential silliness and the awfulness of LaBeouf were moderated by a strong supporting cast and, as noted above, video and audio that were a feast for the eyes and ears. 7 Stars out of 10, which is about as good as it gets from me for any movie directed by Michael Bay and starring Shia LaBoef.

I have to disagree Avatar was not the best I had seen up to this point....the newest Star Trek movie was the best.......

Strong or weak in the end we are all dead
YeuEmMaiMai is offline  
post #118 of 284 Old 10-01-2011, 04:53 AM
 
HiFiFun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
File under Learn Something Unexpected Each Day:
At 01:13:58 the liberal Jewish mother has to teach her son how to stop losing women: She pulls out a not-to-subtle, campy endorsement for "She Comes First" a real book available from Amazon.
I highly recommend this movie too!
HiFiFun is offline  
post #119 of 284 Old 10-01-2011, 05:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
William's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowcaster View Post

I don't believe so William.

This from Dolby's site :

"Additional Dolby TrueHD Features:

Expands metadata support to give content creators advanced control over audio playback...

Maintains constant volume levels when changing between Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital programming via dialogue normalization

Includes dynamic range control, enabling reduced peak volume levels without the loss of overall sound quality"

It's a matter of personal taste, I know, and the online preferences are certainly split on this.

I stand by my statement and your are confusing pre decoding metadata with decoded LPCM output. DRC is used only if you have Night Mode enabled on your receiver. If you have Night Mode enabled THEN you are correct that the decoded TrueHD stream will be deferent than the LPCM Master. However with NM turned off (default) then TrueHD is decoded to an EXACT copy of the LPCM Master used for in-coding.

So now lets look at DN since it is often cited as TrueHD Achilles' Heel and as THE reason to claim that DTS HD is more accurate. LOOK BELOW for proof that DTS MA also has DN metadata too.

William is offline  
post #120 of 284 Old 10-01-2011, 05:45 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
gwsat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 14,633
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 198 Post(s)
Liked: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai View Post

got this disk and you all forgot to mention the best thing about this release.......MOVIE ONLY NO EXTRA BS... like 15 mins of trailers and what not before you can even get to the movie......

I agree that it was refreshing to have the Transformer 3 BD's menu queue up without first having to navigate through innumerable previews and commercials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai View Post

I have to disagree Avatar was not the best I had seen up to this point....the newest Star Trek movie was the best.......

The BD of the latest Star Trek's video and audio are indeed wonderful. Frankly, I have a hard time deciding whether Star Trek, Avatar, or Transformers 3 has the best picture and sound. I think most would agree that all three have spectacular video and audio.
gwsat is offline  
Reply Official AVS Blu-ray Disc Reviews

Tags
Blu Ray Movies , Transformers Dark Of The Moon Three Disc Combo Blu Ray 3d Blu Ray Dvd Digital Copy

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off