Experience Dolby TrueHD w/advanced 96k upsampling on the San Francisco Symphony at 100 on Blu-ray - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 06-14-2012, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Last month, Dolby Laboratories announced enhancements to its loseless audio codec for Blu-ray authoring that can now deliver a full-range high-definition surround sound experience ensuring optimum performance from today's advanced A/V receivers and Blu-ray Disc players. Blu-ray discs premastered using Dolby® TrueHD with advanced 96k upsampling enables facilities to integrate the benefits of 96 kHz playback quality audio into the final master while simultaneously reducing the incidence of digital artifacts introduced during the content-creation process. The resulting content is fully playback compatible.

The San Francisco Symphony’s 2011 Centennial Opening Night Gala live recording was released on Blu-Ray earlier this month and is one of the first Blu-ray releases available featuring DolbyTrueHD with advanced 96k upsampling.

"We were particularly impressed with the excellent results of Dolby's new Dolby TrueHD with advanced 96k upsampling on one of our most recent projects, the San Francisco Symphony at 100 Blu-ray," said Luke Fazzary, Director of Operations, Giant Interactive. "We're very pleased to be able to share the benefits of this technology with our clients and plan to use it on future projects, whether concerts, live-action films, or episodic programming.

Learn more about the use of Dolby TrueHD with advanced 96k upsampling used in the San Francisco Symphony at 100 Blu-ray Disc release:




*****For a limited time, use coupon code "DOLBY" at the San Francisco Symphony's online store for 10% off*****



"Lossless audio is a key distinguishing feature of Blu-ray content. All things being equal, you cannot improve on the quality of lossless audio coding; however, you can improve on the quality of the source PCM content prior to lossless encoding, and this is precisely what we have achieved with our advanced 96k upsampling technology," said Craig Eggers, Director, Content Creation and Playback, Home Theater Ecosystem, Dolby Laboratories. "A significant amount of Hollywood content has been captured in native 48 kHz. Studios and authoring facilities that implement Dolby TrueHD with advanced 96k upsampling can elevate the quality of PCM audio prior to lossless Dolby TrueHD encoding, ensuring that consumers get the very best audio performance possible from their Blu-ray playback systems."

Besides enabling optimum 96k upsampling, this technology features a unique apodizing filter that "masks" the unwanted digital artifacts known as "preringing," which is introduced during the content-capture and content-creation process. These digital artifacts can introduce an unnatural edginess or harshness to the audio. Dolby TrueHD with advanced 96k upsampling restores the natural tonality of the soundtrack. The effect can be subtle or dramatic, depending on the quality of the source material. Content mastered with Dolby TrueHD with advanced upsampling is fully playback compatible with all Dolby TrueHD enabled Blu-ray™ players and A/V receivers. Listeners are assured the highest-quality playback experiences possible through their systems.



Further reading:

Dolby Official Website
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post #2 of 43 Old 06-15-2012, 03:51 AM
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It'll be nice to get a bluray movie with Dolby THD loaded on it. I'll bet it will sound great.
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post #3 of 43 Old 06-15-2012, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by javry View Post

It'll be nice to get a bluray movie with Dolby THD loaded on it. I'll bet it will sound great.

lol amen, so whats the deal with that anyway? DTS MA HD seems to have a monopoly on the blu ray releases?
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post #4 of 43 Old 06-15-2012, 07:24 AM
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A lot like Dolby Digital is/was to DVD. It's DTS's turn.

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post #5 of 43 Old 06-15-2012, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by nikerret View Post

A lot like Dolby Digital is/was to DVD. It's DTS's turn.

Makes no sense.
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post #6 of 43 Old 06-15-2012, 10:10 AM
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advanced 96k upsampling can elevate the quality of PCM audio prior to lossless Dolby TrueHD encoding

I'm amazed that people actually think that upsampling makes an audible difference. Take a 48KHz track and upsample it to 96KHz, presto and you have HD audio!!!!
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post #7 of 43 Old 06-15-2012, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Quote:
advanced 96k upsampling can elevate the quality of PCM audio prior to lossless Dolby TrueHD encoding
I'm amazed that people actually think that upsampling makes an audible difference. Take a 48KHz track and upsample it to 96KHz, presto and you have HD audio!!!!
It was already HD at 48kHz ...

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post #8 of 43 Old 06-15-2012, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by javry View Post

It'll be nice to get a bluray movie with Dolby THD loaded on it. I'll bet it will sound great.

Greetings,

Paramount regularly uses Dolby TrueHD on their Blu-ray titles. There are a number of them that appear in my Reviewer's Recommended Blu-rays thread. See the link in the Sticky Note at the top of the Blu-ray Review forum (or click HERE). smile.gif


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post #9 of 43 Old 06-17-2012, 12:12 AM
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It's all for Dolby marketing.
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post #10 of 43 Old 06-17-2012, 02:56 PM
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DTS MA is can be and is 96/24. I have several BD that are done that way, Roy Oribison B&W nights is one
PF has 2 BD releases, that are dedicated to the album, in 5.1 and 4.0 @ 96/24
There must be reason why most BD are DTS MA.
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post #11 of 43 Old 06-17-2012, 03:21 PM
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At AIX Records, all of our music Blu-ray discs are recorded at 96 kHz/24-bits and as such don't need to be run through any processing. I choose to use Dolby TrueHD for our Blu-ray HD-Audio/Video productions because of it lineage...it came from Meridian as Meridian Lossless Packing. I know Bob Stuart of Meridian and they are dangerously smart people that won the format war when DVD-Audio was around and looking for a codec.

The new process that Dolby has developed makes use of some very elegant DSP work to smooth out the pre-ringing that occurs at lower sample rates due to inaccurate filtering...it's known as an apodizing filter. It has the potential to improve the sound of a digital signal but it cannot fundamentally elevate a standard definition recording (anything at 44.1 or 48 kHz) to HD status. The fidelity of the original recording is locked in at the time of the original session. That means any analog or SD tracks will not become HD simply by putting them in an HD bucket.
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post #12 of 43 Old 06-17-2012, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by quad4.0 View Post

DTS MA is can be and is 96/24. I have several BD that are done that way, Roy Oribison B&W nights is one
PF has 2 BD releases, that are dedicated to the album, in 5.1 and 4.0 @ 96/24
There must be reason why most BD are DTS MA.

2 Main reasons:

1: DTS MA has a lossy legacy DTS core "built in" and is a 1 step to author.

2: Dolby presets their encoders (DN) at a -4db (-27db) and DTS doesn't (-31db). This has given the false impression that DTS has superior sound and perception is 99%.
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post #13 of 43 Old 06-17-2012, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quad4.0 View Post

DTS MA is can be and is 96/24. I have several BD that are done that way, Roy Oribison B&W nights is one
PF has 2 BD releases, that are dedicated to the album, in 5.1 and 4.0 @ 96/24
There must be reason why most BD are DTS MA.
Dolby TrueHD is also available up to 24/192 at 5.1. Always has been.
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post #14 of 43 Old 06-17-2012, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by William View Post

2 Main reasons:
1: DTS MA has a lossy legacy DTS core "built in" and is a 1 step to author.

It would seem with the new tools this is no longer the case with TrueHD. I'm surprised Dolby in the beginning didn't have a setting to automatically author a lossy encode.

I know if TrueHD had been mandatory, rather than optional, then the decoder chip would have encoded a 640kbps DD stream on the fly. If Roger could correct me, but isn't that what HD DVD players could do according to Dolby spec?

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post #15 of 43 Old 06-18-2012, 12:39 AM
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post #16 of 43 Old 06-18-2012, 03:15 AM
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...If Roger could correct me, but isn't that what HD DVD players could do according to Dolby spec?
TrueHD and DD+ (Plus) are (were) mandatory on HD DVD so no DD track was needed to meet spec. Of the top of my head I don't remember many of my HD DVD's having a DD track.

The BDA was so convinced that uncompressed audio was going to be the standard that they didn't add TrueHD as mandatory. Also as most know DTS MA was not finalized until later and couldn't be mandatory on either.
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post #17 of 43 Old 06-18-2012, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr. AIX View Post


The new process that Dolby has developed makes use of some very elegant DSP work to smooth out the pre-ringing that occurs at lower sample rates due to inaccurate filtering...it's known as an apodizing filter. It has the potential to improve the sound of a digital signal but it cannot fundamentally elevate a standard definition recording (anything at 44.1 or 48 kHz) to HD status. The fidelity of the original recording is locked in at the time of the original session. That means any analog or SD tracks will not become HD simply by putting them in an HD bucket.

you and I know that - but just you watch - that is exactly what will get marketed;)
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post #18 of 43 Old 06-18-2012, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by William View Post

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Originally Posted by quad4.0 View Post

DTS MA is can be and is 96/24. I have several BD that are done that way, Roy Oribison B&W nights is one
PF has 2 BD releases, that are dedicated to the album, in 5.1 and 4.0 @ 96/24
There must be reason why most BD are DTS MA.

2 Main reasons:

1: DTS MA has a lossy legacy DTS core "built in" and is a 1 step to author.

2: Dolby presets their encoders (DN) at a -4db (-27db) and DTS doesn't (-31db). This has given the false impression that DTS has superior sound and perception is 99%.

Are you saying that the increase in gain gets percieved as an increase in SQ? - if your answer is yes, then I agree. I'll admit to falling for that one myself in the past.
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post #19 of 43 Old 06-18-2012, 08:40 AM
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Are you saying that the increase in gain gets percieved as an increase in SQ? - if your answer is yes, then I agree. I'll admit to falling for that one myself in the past.
Absolutely YES, because even "golden ear" experts are very carful about level matching so they don't miss perceive. No one is immune to this.
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post #20 of 43 Old 06-18-2012, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post

Greetings,
Paramount regularly uses Dolby TrueHD on their Blu-ray titles. There are a number of them that appear in my Reviewer's Recommended Blu-rays thread. See the link in the Sticky Note at the top of the Blu-ray Review forum (or click HERE). smile.gif
Regards,

Any upcoming Paramount releases going to have this?

Indecision may or may not be my problem.
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post #21 of 43 Old 06-18-2012, 11:27 AM
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Any upcoming Paramount releases going to have this?

Greetings,

I haven't seen any recent announcements but will surely post back when I do. In the meantime the lastest one that comes to mind is Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol. Its 7.1 Dolby TrueHD soundtrack received a perfect audio rating from me. smile.gif

You can read the review HERE

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post #22 of 43 Old 06-23-2012, 11:13 AM
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If anyone ever does A/B testing between the new Dolby processed lossless tracks and the previous Dolby lossless, I have $500 that that says no one will be able to differentiate between the two.

Tempest in a teapot. Dolby is desperate.

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post #23 of 43 Old 06-24-2012, 01:22 AM
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I have $500 that that says no one will be able to differentiate between the two.

Funny. It's literally that between DTS-MA and TrueHD yet some insist DTS is somehow better.

You're forgetting the new authoring toolset. How is making something easier to encode "desperate"? rolleyes.gif

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post #24 of 43 Old 06-24-2012, 10:26 AM
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....Dolby is desperate.

Finically it makes no difference to Dolby if a BD is authored in DTS MA only.wink.gif So while Dolby is a little concerned about most studios using DTS they aren't disparate for them to change.
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post #25 of 43 Old 06-24-2012, 08:50 PM
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BDInfo claims the audio tracks on the disc are actually 96/16, which I find interesting. You think they'd have gone for 24-bit audio here, given all these shenanigans...
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post #26 of 43 Old 06-25-2012, 09:17 AM
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BDInfo claims the audio tracks on the disc are actually 96/16, which I find interesting. You think they'd have gone for 24-bit audio here, given all these shenanigans...

It also was noted this may be an error by BDInfo.

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post #27 of 43 Old 06-26-2012, 02:47 PM
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I couldn't find any mention on the SFS disc of it being upsampled 96K. To me that would be false advertising to claim 96K 24 bit audio on a disc without mentioning that it is upsampled from some other sample rate. They should always include the upsampling Logo or something to differentiate upsampled 96K from actual 96K. 48K upsampled to 96K is not 96K to me, no matter how good the new encode process for True HD.
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post #28 of 43 Old 06-27-2012, 05:51 AM
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I never win anything...frown.gif

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post #29 of 43 Old 06-27-2012, 09:48 PM
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Dolby really pisses me off. Why are they always so vague in everything they announce? How the hell does this announcement even mean anything? Everything they do always just sounds like gimmicky marketing strategy to me. Even when they do actually release something new, they never explain it. It just needs to be "experienced".

Just f***ing tell me how on my headphones, which exceed the accuracy and resolution of sound I've ever heard on any speakers, will I hear something better? The sound is recorded with the same microphones and mixed with the same bit values. What makes the different in quality after that are the speakers/headphones; that's it! If you want to work on projects with developers for 30.1 surround sound, then talk WITH THEM and don't show consumers your damn face.
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post #30 of 43 Old 07-02-2012, 04:37 PM
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Just watched new HK movie Nightfall with (a movie first??) Dolby TrueHD 96k track although 16-bit. Very impressive opening scene that sounded demo worthy.

Really like their upsampling and it was easy to hear a difference from the DTS track. Not that I know what levels the tracks was made in so don't take this scientifically

Audio:
Dolby TrueHD Audio Chinese 5567 kbps 7.1 / 96 kHz / 16-bit
DTS-HD Master Audio Chinese 2276 kbps 7.1 / 48 kHz / 16-bit

Knew there was some concerts made but surprised they got a movie made already. Hopefully we will get some blockbuster movies soon also in this format.
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