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post #31 of 97 Old 09-28-2012, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

Ok, so a follow up to my earlier post. My viewing last night was primarily a video viewing as it was not in my theater room so I can't speak to sound. However, the video impact of The Avengers is...as I said before, Wow! I often found myself focusing on details apart from the movie, like the details in Loki's cloak or Furry's beard among many other things. I said earlier it was almost a distraction and this is what I was referring to. But what really stood out for me was how everything looked almost like a stage production. It was a really interesting effect, one that I have never experienced before. I don't say this to suggest that things looked fake necessarily, just not a normal studio film look. I felt it really brought me into the movie and they did a great job giving it a comic book look but not in a flamboyant way, if that makes sense. Anyone else with this feel?

Yes, almost exactly!

Youre post really hit a nerve because that is the same feeling I got and didnt really know how to describe it.

All in all an impressive movie.

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post #32 of 97 Old 09-28-2012, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dan4081 View Post

Yes, almost exactly!
Youre post really hit a nerve because that is the same feeling I got and didnt really know how to describe it.
All in all an impressive movie.

Most impressive. cool.gif

(Couldn't resist)
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post #33 of 97 Old 09-28-2012, 12:15 PM
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Great review Ralph, watched it Tuesday (Bluray opening night) and found it the most fun of any of the Marvel films. You remain my go-to movie review guy. cool.gif


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post #34 of 97 Old 09-28-2012, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Great review Ralph, watched it Tuesday (Bluray opening night) and found it the most fun of any of the Marvel films. You remain my go-to movie review guy. cool.gif


Greetings,

Nice! Glad to hear it RMK..smile.gif


Regards,

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post #35 of 97 Old 09-28-2012, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post

Greetings,
Gentlemen, fear not, the video quality is excellent and essentially representative of what I saw in the theater. There were no egregious deductions. Besides the difference between a 90 and reference quality on my rating scale is minmial wink.gif
Sit back and enjoy one of the best Blu-ray release of the year.. cool.gif
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Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

I suggest giving it a viewing before putting too much weight on the video rating. Maybe it's just me, my eyes and my equipment but there is nothing to me remotely disappointing video-wise with this release.

This gives me a little peace of mind smile.gif
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post #36 of 97 Old 09-28-2012, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

I suggest giving it a viewing before putting too much weight on the video rating. Maybe it's just me, my eyes and my equipment but there is nothing to me remotely disappointing video-wise with this release.

They're isn't.

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post #37 of 97 Old 09-29-2012, 01:16 AM
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Audio wasn't bad. Definitely good but not great imho.

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #38 of 97 Old 09-29-2012, 06:02 AM
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Pick this up Tuesday!! as I did not get a chance to experience it in the theater . Thoughts on the movie were very good overall on the video(it did seem darker in the first half) and audio wise maybe it could have been a little better compared to some of the other recent marvel offerings but it did have great impact.The plot with all those characters flowed very well from beginning to end so I am looking forward to watching it again this weekend and checking out the extras.
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post #39 of 97 Old 09-29-2012, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Audio wasn't bad. Definitely good but not great imho.

I agree...loved, LOVED this movie though.

Thanks Ralph for another great review. As I was watching this movie for a second time, I kept thinking about Transformers: Dark of the Moon as 'better' in the A/V departments than this movie. Your 2D video score reflects the differences between the movies but with an audio score of 100, you hear them the same. I would respectively disagree...redface.gif

Transformers: Dark of the Moon A/V + The Avengers story, writing and cast = Home Theater Perfection!smile.gif
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post #40 of 97 Old 09-29-2012, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Audio wasn't bad. Definitely good but not great imho.

Agreed. Even without seeing the nasty 30hz filter in the charts, I could tell the extension was not there on this track in relation to other tracks I have heard in my room like Battle LA, Tron, WotW, Cloverfield, TIH, Hannah, etc.......A lot of the LFE was very similar as well and this might also be the by-product of the 30hz filter. My subs and Buttkickers were just not pushed with the Avengers like they are with the better and best LFE tracks out there like the ones mentioned above. I watched Cabin in the Woods right after Avengers yesterday and that LFE track had noticeably better extension, output and variety. TIH is a natural comparison as well considering the Hulk is in this movie and there is no contest there.....TIH kills this track in every aspect as far as LFE is concerned (and otherwise). Having said that, I still enjoyed this track a lot from a LFE perspective and otherwise. This movie is loaded with bass and it hits pretty hard as well. Would love to hear it without the filter!

The rest of the track was very good as well, but not quite reference IMO. Reference surround work are tracks like Avatar, TIH, Hellboy 2, Transformers Dark of the Moon, etc......Avengers was a notch below these type tracks, but again still very good if not quite reference IMO.

I thought the 2d video was reference however and I was very impressed from that perspective! This was the first movie I watched with a Darbee in the chain though, so that might have something to do with it.

Next watch I will check out the 3d. Hope my RS45 does not ghost to badly with it.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #41 of 97 Old 09-29-2012, 08:46 PM
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Did anyone mention the movie is not shoot in wide screen? I am very suprised. How about you?
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post #42 of 97 Old 09-29-2012, 08:52 PM
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Samuel seems to be in all the movies I seen this month .. Meeting Evil, this one and The Samaritan that came out this week.
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post #43 of 97 Old 09-29-2012, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Agreed. Even without seeing the nasty 30hz filter in the charts, I could tell the extension was not there on this track in relation to other tracks I have heard in my room like Battle LA, Tron, WotW, Cloverfield, TIH, Hannah, etc.......A lot of the LFE was very similar as well and this might also be the by-product of the 30hz filter. My subs and Buttkickers were just not pushed with the Avengers like they are with the better and best LFE tracks out there like the ones mentioned above. I watched Cabin in the Woods right after Avengers yesterday and that LFE track had noticeably better extension, output and variety. TIH is a natural comparison as well considering the Hulk is in this movie and there is no contest there.....TIH kills this track in every aspect as far as LFE is concerned (and otherwise). Having said that, I still enjoyed this track a lot from a LFE perspective and otherwise. This movie is loaded with bass and it hits pretty hard as well. Would love to hear it without the filter!
The rest of the track was very good as well, but not quite reference IMO. Reference surround work are tracks like Avatar, TIH, Hellboy 2, Transformers Dark of the Moon, etc......Avengers was a notch below these type tracks, but again still very good if not quite reference IMO.
I thought the 2d video was reference however and I was very impressed from that perspective! This was the first movie I watched with a Darbee in the chain though, so that might have something to do with it.
Next watch I will check out the 3d. Hope my RS45 does not ghost to badly with it.

I agree the 2D was refrence and thats without the Darbee (sold it)

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post #44 of 97 Old 09-30-2012, 06:59 AM
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That review is "spot on" Ralph. It was a sweet 3d presentation on my Sammy 60es8000....Bright and detailed. I love the comic super hero genre...very cool. I would have liked a little more 3dness but this is one of the better ones and worthy of owning. 2d...amazing!

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post #45 of 97 Old 09-30-2012, 10:32 AM
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This may be a conversion, but on my setup, the 3D looked fantastic! A number of my friends said they felt like they were actually in the movie because the depth was so good. The video to me looked crystal clear and I can't imagine how it could be improved. And the sound, of course, was stellar. It seemed like there was plenty of bass, so I'm not sure what some people are complaining about. Overall, a day one purchase for me and it's going to get plenty of more viewings in the future. smile.gif

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post #46 of 97 Old 09-30-2012, 02:45 PM
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Nice ... Just ordered it on Friday can't wait very good review Thank you
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post #47 of 97 Old 09-30-2012, 06:00 PM
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I agree the audio was good but not reference and not 100 in my book. Still a very enjoyable movie.

Kaboom.
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post #48 of 97 Old 09-30-2012, 07:02 PM
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This is the first movie for me insofar as sensing it was going to be good and not wanting to see it in the theaters on purpose; waiting patiently for it to arrive on Blu-Ray. My preorder arrived like everyone else's but I still haven't seen it. I'm holding out hope of watching it with my wife, who grimaced at the thought. Patience is wearing thin.
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post #49 of 97 Old 10-01-2012, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by UGAd13 View Post

got the 2D blu-ray on Tuesday in the mail from Netflix... can't wait to watch it this weekend!!! I didn't see it in the theaters so I'm stoked.
great review, as always.

Happy to report that I really enjoyed this movie and that the Netflix rental has the same features as Disc 2 above.

Good stuff!

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post #50 of 97 Old 10-01-2012, 11:17 AM
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I agree the audio was good but not reference and not 100 in my book. Still a very enjoyable movie.

It really depends upon the frequency response of your sub. I was at a friend's home last night and he pop in the movie, but due to his weak sub, I felt I was missing more than 50% of the low frequency material.frown.gif
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post #51 of 97 Old 10-01-2012, 11:33 AM
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It really depends upon the frequency response of your sub. I was at a friend's home last night and he pop in the movie, but due to his weak sub, I felt I was missing more than 50% of the low frequency material.frown.gif


No worries. This is what it sounded like......

BOOOOOOOMMMMMMM

Except for Widow's gun, which sounded like.....

Pop pop pop pop

biggrin.gif
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post #52 of 97 Old 10-01-2012, 01:55 PM
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No worries. This is what it sounded like......
BOOOOOOOMMMMMMM
Except for Widow's gun, which sounded like.....
Pop pop pop pop
biggrin.gif

Lol, my house shook frequently throughout the latter half of the movie, and I don't exactly have a monster sub. (Hsu VTF-2 MK4 set at +0db and 50% volume) The clarity of the video was nothing short of pristine, and the DTS-HD 7.1 sounded wonderful. Avengers was an awesome HT experience!
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post #53 of 97 Old 10-01-2012, 03:22 PM
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It really depends upon the frequency response of your sub. I was at a friend's home last night and he pop in the movie, but due to his weak sub, I felt I was missing more than 50% of the low frequency material.frown.gif

I have 4 Hsu ULS 15s.

Kaboom.
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post #54 of 97 Old 10-02-2012, 04:10 AM
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I don't understand how Ralph can get an accurate impression of the audio quality when his room completely lacks any acoustic treatment and the positioning of the front channel speakers is mediocre at best - the left and right speakers are far too close together and actually encroach on the screen's viewing area. The center channel is very low, not angled and the upper frequency drivers are not on the same plane as the tower speakers. And if you have two subwoofers I have seen many, many professional recommendations to put one sub dead center on the front wall and a second dead center on the rear wall OR to put the subs on either side of the center channel speaker. In Ralph's setup one is in the front left corner and the other is in the back rear.

I trust that there are good, solid production values in this highly anticipated disc but quite frankly don't understand how the quality of the sound can be identified let alone graded for publication given the extreme limitations of the room and the setup.


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post #55 of 97 Old 10-02-2012, 06:46 AM
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I don't understand how Ralph can get an accurate impression of the audio quality when his room completely lacks any acoustic treatment and the positioning of the front channel speakers is mediocre at best - the left and right speakers are far too close together and actually encroach on the screen's viewing area. The center channel is very low, not angled and the upper frequency drivers are not on the same plane as the tower speakers. And if you have two subwoofers I have seen many, many professional recommendations to put one sub dead center on the front wall and a second dead center on the rear wall OR to put the subs on either side of the center channel speaker. In Ralph's setup one is in the front left corner and the other is in the back rear.
I trust that there are good, solid production values in this highly anticipated disc but quite frankly don't understand how the quality of the sound can be identified let alone graded for publication given the extreme limitations of the room and the setup.

Ears don't lie. Regardless of room dynamics, I would think that "sounds good" is "sounds good" by any measure. And in my room, this BD measured against other rated BD's in my library fares well against Ralph's ratings IMO. Perhaps if actual measurements are involved then perhaps that would entail a different level of discussion but clarity, bass extension and surround envelopment are pretty easily identifiable IMO.
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post #56 of 97 Old 10-02-2012, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

Ears don't lie. Regardless of room dynamics, I would think that "sounds good" is "sounds good" by any measure. And in my room, this BD measured against other rated BD's in my library fares well against Ralph's ratings IMO. Perhaps if actual measurements are involved then perhaps that would entail a different level of discussion but clarity, bass extension and surround envelopment are pretty easily identifiable IMO.

I think this is clearly a case of "you don't know what you don't know". Would you not agree you can have identical systems in two separate rooms that can sound COMPLETELY different because one has been acoustically tuned / treated and professionally calibrated to yield flat response and the other is just painted drywall and tuning by ear until it "sounds good". You could say that the untreated room sounds good....but until you hear how good the equipment can sound in a properly treated and calibrated room, you don't know what you don't know. It is well-established fact that the room has the largest impact on sound. You could have the best system in the world, but if you don't set up the room properly and have the equipment calibrated for optimal performance, you are doomed with poor quality sound right from the start because of the room - and no amount of room correction software can fix the problem. Video calibration is relatively straightforward. Audio calibration in a complex acoustic environment is not.

If his front speakers are too close together, how can he speak effectively on imaging and the movement of sound from one side of the screen to the other? If his room emphasizes certain low harmonics would Ralph call the output "muddy", though it is no fault of the recording. Since his room suffers from a complete lack of acoustic treatments, does the room emphasize or de-emphasize certain frequencies that make dialog less intelligible, sound effects less realistic and give a harsher sound to the audio portion of the disc? How am I to gleen any serious information from this review when I know the system setup is doomed from the start? Not that Ralph's write-ups influence my decision even the slightest bit . . . but is it even worth reading knowing the status of the room. Would take seriously a review on the quality of a projector's picture quality if you knew there was a halogen light set up just a few feet away from the screen? Of course not. The same holds true for audio.

Just as Ralph shouldn't claim that his front projection picture looks washed out and lacks contrast with the lights on, so to should he not make claims on the audio quality in what is an untreated and uncalibrated room. Until that time he is just another guy who says it "sounds good".


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post #57 of 97 Old 10-02-2012, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

I think this is clearly a case of "you don't know what you don't know". Would you not agree you can have identical systems in two separate rooms that can sound COMPLETELY different because one has been acoustically tuned / treated and professionally calibrated to yield flat response and the other is just painted drywall and tuning by ear until it "sounds good". You could say that the untreated room sounds good....but until you hear how good the equipment can sound in a properly treated and calibrated room, you don't know what you don't know. It is well-established fact that the room has the largest impact on sound. You could have the best system in the world, but if you don't set up the room properly and have the equipment calibrated for optimal performance, you are doomed with poor quality sound right from the start because of the room - and no amount of room correction software can fix the problem. Video calibration is relatively straightforward. Audio calibration in a complex acoustic environment is not.
If his front speakers are too close together, how can he speak effectively on imaging and the movement of sound from one side of the screen to the other? If his room emphasizes certain low harmonics would Ralph call the output "muddy", though it is no fault of the recording. Since his room suffers from a complete lack of acoustic treatments, does the room emphasize or de-emphasize certain frequencies that make dialog less intelligible, sound effects less realistic and give a harsher sound to the audio portion of the disc? How am I to gleen any serious information from this review when I know the system setup is doomed from the start? Not that Ralph's write-ups influence my decision even the slightest bit . . . but is it even worth reading knowing the status of the room. Would take seriously a review on the quality of a projector's picture quality if you knew there was a halogen light set up just a few feet away from the screen? Of course not. The same holds true for audio.
Just as Ralph shouldn't claim that his front projection picture looks washed out and lacks contrast with the lights on, so to should he not make claims on the audio quality in what is an untreated and uncalibrated room. Until that time he is just another guy who says it "sounds good".

I look at it more as a clear case of relativity. You ask how are you to glean serious information from this review but IMO, I don't think "serious information" is offered. Frankly, I feel that if it were really serious information that you seek then you would be reading elsewhere from a reviewer that provided actual sonic measurements in a controlled environment complete with graphs. From this viewpoint, I find very little that I can disagree with in your post. But the fact is that most don't have "ideal theater" environments nor do most have "high end" gear. In fact, most of us are regular guys (maybe a few irregular guys:p) who simply enjoy movies and appreciate a higher quality of audio and video. And in this forum and in Ralph as well, we find a reasonable barometer for evaluating a films A/V quality. There are some movie critics that I mostly agree with. There are others that I feel totally miss the mark. So I tend to gravitate to those that tend to be of like mind because "I" perceive value in their opinion. I can relate. Same here. Ralph offers an opinion, nothing more. And 90% of the time I've found his opinion to be of like mind to me. Doesn't make him right. Doesn't make him wrong. Just makes him a fit for what I look for in a review based on what I see and hear in my set up. So yes, me and a few of my friends here wink.gif find that Ralph's reviews are in fact worth reading and some of us might even look forward to his reviews with great anticipation. I don't know what kind of gear Ralph has nor do I know how it's set up. I also don't know if he sits in a centered position with his ears 5 feet off the floor in perfect alignment with his mid range drivers x number of feet from his screen. I don't know if he's drunk when he does his reviews and I don't know if he does so in a pair of footed pajamas or buck naked with a cowboy hat on. I don't care that much. He takes his time to offer an honest opinion on what he sees and hears and I appreciate it.
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post #58 of 97 Old 10-02-2012, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

I think this is clearly a case of "you don't know what you don't know". Would you not agree you can have identical systems in two separate rooms that can sound COMPLETELY different because one has been acoustically tuned / treated and professionally calibrated to yield flat response and the other is just painted drywall and tuning by ear until it "sounds good". You could say that the untreated room sounds good....but until you hear how good the equipment can sound in a properly treated and calibrated room, you don't know what you don't know. It is well-established fact that the room has the largest impact on sound. You could have the best system in the world, but if you don't set up the room properly and have the equipment calibrated for optimal performance, you are doomed with poor quality sound right from the start because of the room - and no amount of room correction software can fix the problem. Video calibration is relatively straightforward. Audio calibration in a complex acoustic environment is not.
If his front speakers are too close together, how can he speak effectively on imaging and the movement of sound from one side of the screen to the other? If his room emphasizes certain low harmonics would Ralph call the output "muddy", though it is no fault of the recording. Since his room suffers from a complete lack of acoustic treatments, does the room emphasize or de-emphasize certain frequencies that make dialog less intelligible, sound effects less realistic and give a harsher sound to the audio portion of the disc? How am I to gleen any serious information from this review when I know the system setup is doomed from the start? Not that Ralph's write-ups influence my decision even the slightest bit . . . but is it even worth reading knowing the status of the room. Would take seriously a review on the quality of a projector's picture quality if you knew there was a halogen light set up just a few feet away from the screen? Of course not. The same holds true for audio.
Just as Ralph shouldn't claim that his front projection picture looks washed out and lacks contrast with the lights on, so to should he not make claims on the audio quality in what is an untreated and uncalibrated room. Until that time he is just another guy who says it "sounds good".

Greetings,

I could spend the next twenty minutes of my time explaining the acoustics in my room and why it is setup the way it is based upon measurements and placement options but I will forego that because it seems rather obvious that you have made up your mind.I think that in your own words "you don't know what you don't know" applies to you as well. Closet Geek very eloquently explained my purpose here. It is the same for many writers. You have no intimate knowledge of the systems/setups of most reviewers so I would assume that your questions would apply to most. In general readers gauge my evaluations based upon their own experience with the same titles. When they tend to find similar experiences a bond of reliance/trust forms and they return when I comment on a title they are interested in.

No one is making any claims other than to offer an opinion. Anyone that isn't interested in that is free to look elsewhere. You're are more than welcome to do that if you feel that there is no serious information here worth gleening.

Regards,
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Ralph C. Potts
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post #59 of 97 Old 10-02-2012, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post

Greetings,
In general readers gauge my evaluations based upon their own experience with the same titles. When they tend to find similar experiences a bond of reliance/trust forms and they return when I comment on a title they are interested in.

I am one of those readers, and I concur; Avengers warrants a 100 audio rating based upon what I hear from my Infinity Composition Preludes P-FR and my Velodyne HGS-18 sub.biggrin.gif
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post #60 of 97 Old 10-02-2012, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

I am one of those readers, and I concur; Avengers warrants a 100 audio rating based upon what I hear from my Infinity Composition Preludes P-FR and my Velodyne HGS-18 sub.biggrin.gif

My ears are ringing just reading that.
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