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post #61 of 153 Old 07-10-2014, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Greetings,

I see we are getting a lot of repetitive discussion and discourse that is keeping things spinning. I have allowed it as I know that film's like this will generate a bit more off topic interaction however it seems as though the same contributors are restating their points so lets not continue to respond with the same thoughts etc.

I am not banging the gavel just yet but let's keep that in mind.


Thanks!

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post #62 of 153 Old 07-10-2014, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DanLW View Post
You realize that you are equally biased for condemning their evidence without investigation simply because they are a Christian site.

The reason people of faith get upset when movies twist the Bible is because we take the Bible quite literally as gospel truth. But nobody generally gets upset when Greek/Roman/Babylonian/Etc. mythology is twisted because nobody (or at least a very few) people take those stories as important to an eternal destiny.
When sites and museums like those have people riding dinosaurs... in the Garden of Eden no less, I tend to not take them very seriously. But, that's just me.

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post #63 of 153 Old 07-10-2014, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DDailey View Post
Aronofsky is one of the most over rated directors ever - look at me I'm so talented and I will remind you of this fact in every frame I shoot. His films are unbearable!
I agree
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post #64 of 153 Old 07-10-2014, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post
Like I said, I can't possibly hope to speak for all of the tens of thousands of different denominations of Christianity, I'm sure there are many of them that do believe it to be literal. I was only talking about Catholicism.

I don't have a website to point to, but I have discussed this and other topics of both the Old and New Testament at length with a Bishop. (An older brother of my father's best friend from childhood.) He honestly rolls his eyes when asked if Noah's Ark was real.

Also, there is this quote, which you may choose to believe or to ignore:

Quote:
....the Bible is not a natural science textbook, nor does it intend to be such. It is a religious book, and consequently one cannot obtain information about the natural sciences from it. One cannot get from it a scientific explanation of how the world arose; one can only glean religious experience from it. Anything else is an image and a way of describing things whose aim is to make profound realities graspable to human beings. One must distinguish between the form of portrayal and the content that is portrayed. The form would have been chosen from what was understandable at the time -- from the images which surrounded the people who lived then, which they used in speaking and in thinking, and thanks to which they were able to understand the greater realities. And only the reality that shines through these images would be what was intended and what was truly enduring. Thus Scripture would not wish to inform us about how the different species of plant life gradually appeared or how the sun and the moon and the stars were established. Its purpose ultimately would be to say one thing: God created the world.

-Pope Benedict XVI
.

Perhaps you would find it good reading - http://www.amazon.com/In-Beginning-U.../dp/0802841066

In any case, have a good day.

-Suntan
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post #65 of 153 Old 07-10-2014, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
Like I said, I can't possibly hope to speak for all of the tens of thousands of different denominations of Christianity, I'm sure there are many of them that do believe it to be literal. I was only talking about Catholicism.

I don't have a website to point to, but I have discussed this and other topics of both the Old and New Testament at length with a Bishop. (An older brother of my father's best friend from childhood.) He honestly rolls his eyes when asked if Noah's Ark was real.

Also, there is this quote, which you may choose to believe or to ignore:

.

Perhaps you would find it good reading - http://www.amazon.com/In-Beginning-U.../dp/0802841066

In any case, have a good day.

-Suntan
It's just like with Darwin. Some people get their knickers in a twist thinking he was trying to disprove God's existence (and that they'll only accept the explanation that everything came into existence POOF! as-is) when he was actually more curious about how it all works... like trying to investigate the parts of a clock. If the universe is billions and billions of years old and works on an evolutionary scale, that doesn't mean something didn't create it. Nor does it mean some intelligence was behind it all either. It's all open to interpretation.

However, I don't believe the Earth is only 4,000 years old. That, to me, flies in the face of tangible proof and logic.

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post #66 of 153 Old 07-10-2014, 08:20 PM
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I don't care how good this movie is or isn't - the "Book version" would be a lot better.

I was not even going to rent this movie as I assumed is was done in such a way to take away from the real thing.

Based on Ralph's review and comments, I will watch from Apple TV or DirecTV and be entertained by what it is and not put off by what it is not.
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post #67 of 153 Old 07-12-2014, 07:33 AM
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Finally got around to watching this one. I had VERY high hopes, as Aronofsky has made some of my favorite films of all time.
Sadly, I was a little underwhelmed. It wasn't a bad movie by any means...but I expected more from it. Some kind of emotional attachment or something. Oh well, they all can't be home runs.

And to address the "Biblical" stuff that so many people seem to be upset by. I had no issues with the Rock Transformers (sorry, I mean, Fallen Angels/Watchers)...I actually thought they were kind of cool (if unexpected). The world was supposed to be magical back then, so I don't think they were really out of place. The stuff that I can't really get over are the things directly from the story...and that's the fact that there would have to be a whole lot of inbreeding going on! At the best, an uncle is going to procreate with his nieces...at worst, a mother and son or father and daughter. Every time I think about that, I get sucked out of the movie.
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post #68 of 153 Old 07-12-2014, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Stormshadow4life View Post
The stuff that I can't really get over are the things directly from the story...and that's the fact that there would have to be a whole lot of inbreeding going on! At the best, an uncle is going to procreate with his nieces...at worst, a mother and son or father and daughter. Every time I think about that, I get sucked out of the movie.
Reasonable question. On the other hand, if you believe in a God that gave instructions to Noah in the first place, told him how to build the Ark, and caused the flood, then believing HE could enable re-population of the earth by the families on board, would not be a big deal.

But again, a reasonable question.
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post #69 of 153 Old 07-12-2014, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
Hate to be pedantic here, but by definition, the story of Noah is not "gospel truth" seeing as it is part of the Old Testament.

In fact, I can't say as I've ever met a "devout Christian" that insisted on claiming the Old Testament should be taken 100% literally. This is usually the perview of the Jews, and even they do not claim that everything in the Torah is literal. For example, I do not believe the Jewish faith proclaims the story of Noah to be 100% literal. Likewise, I do not believe the Catholic church officially endorses the story of Noah to have happened as it was literally written in the Old Testament. If some of the 41,000 smaller Christian denominations outside of the Catholic church do teach it as a literal event that happened though, I could not comment on those.

In any case, did I mention that Jennifer Connelly would look hot even in a bulky hazmat suit?

-Suntan
The short answer is that most Jews view many of the historical events in the book commonly known as The Old Testament as a book as allegory.

The long answer is that it's more complicated than that and really depends where you stand on the Jewish spectrum. There's a really good article here that will explain it more effectively than I ever could:

http://www.jewfaq.org/movement.htm
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Looky here!

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post #70 of 153 Old 07-12-2014, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post
Thor and Zeus = Captain Kirk... Noah = Pearl Harbor.
And we know how "accurate" the PEARL HARBOR movie was! (Heck, it's 1941 and not a single person was smoking!). THE BUDDY HOLLY STORY wasn't that accurate either...sometimes filmmakers make stuff up, even when based on real (VERIFIABLE) people and events. I doubt Noah was as jovial as John Huston portrayed him in THE BIBLE. (People decrying Aronofsky's movie should watch THE BIBLE and see how compelling THAT is!)


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post #71 of 153 Old 07-12-2014, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post
And we know how "accurate" the PEARL HARBOR movie was! (Heck, it's 1941 and not a single person was smoking!). THE BUDDY HOLLY STORY wasn't that accurate either...sometimes filmmakers make stuff up, even when based on real (VERIFIABLE) people and events. I doubt Noah was as jovial as John Huston portrayed him in THE BIBLE. (People decrying Aronofsky's movie should watch THE BIBLE and see how compelling THAT is!)
At least in the Pearl Harbor movie, they didn't make rock creatures pilot the planes during the attack. The basic/core event of the Japanese attacking the harbor was still there. They built a fictional story "around" that historical event.

I do a agree with you 100% on "The Bible" movie. For example, having Angels doing Kung Fu in the "Lot Scene" was ridiculous. I wouldn't recommend that movie to anyone either.
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post #72 of 153 Old 07-12-2014, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post
At least in the Pearl Harbor movie, they didn't make rock creatures pilot the planes during the attack. The basic/core event of the Japanese attacking the harbor was still there. They built a fictional story "around" that historical event.

I do a agree with you 100% on "The Bible" movie. For example, having Angels doing Kung Fu in the "Lot Scene" was ridiculous. I wouldn't recommend that movie to anyone either.
Hey, maybe angels do Kung Fu real good. They sure play a lot of baseball in movies.

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post #73 of 153 Old 07-12-2014, 10:49 AM
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Watched this last night, and for me, it was just a total turkey, one of the worst movies of the year......

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post #74 of 153 Old 07-12-2014, 08:03 PM
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No religious stuff from me. Every movie is an interpretation. I found "Noah" to be very pro human at the end. It was great to see Jennifer Connelly and Russell Crowe get the best parts they've had in years. Russell Crowe gives a beautifully nuanced performance. The kind he gave in past classics like "Gladiator," "Master and Commander," "The Next Three Days" and "A Beautiful Mind." Watch it for the acting. You'll find it worth your while.
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post #75 of 153 Old 07-13-2014, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Reasonable question. On the other hand, if you believe in a God that gave instructions to Noah in the first place, told him how to build the Ark, and caused the flood, then believing HE could enable re-population of the earth by the families on board, would not be a big deal.

But again, a reasonable question.
Those sheep are starting to look hot!
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post #76 of 153 Old 07-13-2014, 11:44 AM
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Those sheep are starting to look hot!
No, Noah! Stay away from Fluffy!!!

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post #77 of 153 Old 07-14-2014, 01:11 PM
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Gunna have to give this a rent to check out the A/V presentation. Always liked Russell Crowe very much so hopefully movie itself ain't bad.

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post #78 of 153 Old 07-15-2014, 01:41 PM
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For whatever reason the iTunes version of this film is 2.35:1, it was 1.85:1 in IMAX and normal theaters, the trailer, and according to this review the Blu-ray. Now all of a sudden I'm seeing it in 2.35 and the image looks way too tight.
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post #79 of 153 Old 07-16-2014, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by superleo View Post
Thanks Ralph for the insight. I have not watched the movie and had no intention on watching it. My wife watched it at the theater and she mentioned that I should try it, she even mention you would like it. I was somewhat put off by the loose adherence to the real story -- My wife kept repeating "its just a movie". And YES, even though is just a movie then the title should had NOT been 'Noah". Sorry for the rambling.

Based on your score and if can freely take as just a movie I'll give it a try.
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It's unfortunate that for as long as Aronofsky worked on getting this film made that he couldn't be more faithful to the source material.

The final product has enough artistic liberties taken to sink the boat the film is about.
The movie is faithful to the source material. Or, rather, the source materials (plural - though even the Genesis account appears to have more than one source). The movie is based on additional Noah stories besides the one(s) that are in the canonical Masoretic Text of the Hebrew Scriptures. That's what some people don't understand. There are additional Jewish stories about Noah related to the Flood, the Watchers, etc., in gnostic texts, the Enoch/Jubilees literature, etc. Aronofsky drew from those sources as well. So it is about the Noah of Jewish tradition - it's just that there is more to the tradition than the few chapters in Genesis.
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post #80 of 153 Old 07-16-2014, 12:04 PM
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The movie is faithful to the source material. Or, rather, the source materials (plural - though even the Genesis account appears to have more than one source). The movie is based on additional Noah stories besides the one(s) that are in the canonical Masoretic Text of the Hebrew Scriptures. That's what some people don't understand. There are additional Jewish stories about Noah related to the Flood, the Watchers, etc., in gnostic texts, the Enoch/Jubilees literature, etc. Aronofsky drew from those sources as well. So it is about the Noah of Jewish tradition - it's just that there is more to the tradition than the few chapters in Genesis.
It is not my intention to be adversarial, but some of you guys keep going to the additional texts and other manuscripts etc. The writers/producers/directors had many different interviews and I've had not seen ONE where any of them refers to any other text but the Bible.They had plenty of opportunities to explain and disclosed their sources... NOT once. So NO, the movie Noah, as stated and explained by the writers/director etc, does not adhere to the text of the Bible, where they say they based their film on.

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post #81 of 153 Old 07-16-2014, 12:11 PM
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It's a movie ,that there are artistic liberties in the movie about a fable is really not so big a deal. I am not sure why anyone would be upset about it. I mean if you thought it was poorly directed or acted sure, but we are not talking about historical facts here. So artistic license is allowed.

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post #82 of 153 Old 07-16-2014, 12:20 PM
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but we are not talking about historical facts here.
Do you BELIEVE that or do you KNOW that? If you KNOW it, I would be interested in the source of your knowledge. If you BELIEVE it, I am OK with this statement.
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post #83 of 153 Old 07-16-2014, 12:30 PM
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It's a movie ,that there are artistic liberties in the movie about a fable is really not so big a deal. I am not sure why anyone would be upset about it. I mean if you thought it was poorly directed or acted sure, but we are not talking about historical facts here. So artistic license is allowed.
Here we go AGAIN. Some of you can not even distinguished what the issue is really about... NOTHING has been mentioned where as the story it self is true or not -- I would live that up to the individual.

MY POINT... according to the writers/director the movie "Noah" was based in the Biblical text. I understand that is a movie, however if you going to call it "Noah", which would suggest is the Noah from the Bible then at least be some what close to the real story, real as the text in the Bible not real as if it truly happened..

It is clear that some just go along to what they hear about the story... Go read it for yourself and then comment about the movie in relationship with the text.

The writers/director could've called the movie something else... "Noah" by itself depicts the Biblical text... which this movie IS NOT.

Great movie for our hobby though if we cosider the technical video and audio achievements.

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post #84 of 153 Old 07-16-2014, 01:45 PM
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Do you BELIEVE that or do you KNOW that? If you KNOW it, I would be interested in the source of your knowledge. If you BELIEVE it, I am OK with this statement.

If in believe you mean do I have faith that the story is not true? Then yes I believe the story is not actual historic fact. Not sure how I could know, I mean it is a fable, what is to know?

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post #85 of 153 Old 07-16-2014, 02:39 PM
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[QUOTE=superleo;25795713]Here we go AGAIN. Some of you can not even distinguished what the issue is really about... NOTHING has been mentioned where as the story it self is true or not -- I would live that up to the individual.

MY POINT... according to the writers/director the movie "Noah" was based in the Biblical text. I understand that is a movie, however if you going to call it "Noah", which would suggest is the Noah from the Bible then at least be some what close to the real story, real as the text in the Bible not real as if it truly happened..

It is clear that some just go along to what they hear about the story... Go read it for yourself and then comment about the movie in relationship with the text.

The writers/director could've called the movie something else... "Noah" by itself depicts the Biblical text... which this movie IS NOT.

Great movie for our hobby though if we cosider the technical video and audioachievements.[/QUOTE


Ok I see how not being true to the story as written could be an issue for people. I apologise.
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post #86 of 153 Old 07-17-2014, 04:47 PM
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I myself was excited to see this. Now that you can buy the digital copy 2 weeks ahead of renting it I paid $14.99 for it. I have mixed emotions about the movie. Its true it doesn't follow the story as the bible tells it I am ok with that. The rock creatures were a bit much and I thought Russle Crowe would not make movies with that type of cheesyness to it. Sorry that's not even a word but the best way I could describe it. Aside from the creatures the movie was entertaining and I enjoyed it. Sounded awesome on my surround sound system.
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post #87 of 153 Old 07-18-2014, 03:47 AM
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Ralph,

Maybe I missed it but do you demo these movies Neo X? DTS MA?

Which mode and if using Neo X, since this movie was mixed in Atmos, were height effects, etc better than other tracks?

Thanks!

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post #88 of 153 Old 07-18-2014, 09:39 AM
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Ralph,

Maybe I missed it but do you demo these movies Neo X? DTS MA?

Which mode and if using Neo X, since this movie was mixed in Atmos, were height effects, etc better than other tracks?

Thanks!
It would probably be no better than a good 7.1 track using the same post processing. For the Atmos effect you need an Atmos track and hardware to render it.

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post #89 of 153 Old 07-18-2014, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by superleo View Post
It is not my intention to be adversarial, but some of you guys keep going to the additional texts and other manuscripts etc. The writers/producers/directors had many different interviews and I've had not seen ONE where any of them refers to any other text but the Bible.They had plenty of opportunities to explain and disclosed their sources... NOT once. So NO, the movie Noah, as stated and explained by the writers/director etc, does not adhere to the text of the Bible, where they say they based their film on.
I probably should have added or said Jewish kabbalistic texts, too.
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post #90 of 153 Old 07-18-2014, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eweiss View Post
I probably should have added or said Jewish kabbalistic texts, too.
And they integrated other mythological texts as well.

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