Spectre Blu-ray Review - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 242 Old 02-15-2016, 03:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
The DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 soundtrack is impeccable here, right from the very opening scene with the drums in Mexico City.

More than one person in this thread alone disagrees with you.


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As for 'Casino Royale' audio on Blu, from Ralph's own perspective; Dolby TrueHD vs PCM:

"Casino Royale received a lossless Dolby TrueHD audio encoding for this Collectors’ Edition release versus the uncompressed PCM audio included on the original. Comparing the two I noticed the TrueHD soundtrack seemed as though it had been mixed a bit hotter. The same sequences watched via the PCM track were noticeably lower at the same volume setting. Matching the levels I didn’t find an appreciable difference in dynamics, clarity or low frequency detail. The same attributes existed in both. This came in the form of high level detail, defining clarity, and rich, room filling surround sound that didn’t disappoint. This is sophisticated sound design that incorporates a vast number of sound effects that are intricately mixed to engage the listening position. Bass is substantive and can sometimes be vigorous in depth but never rises inappropriately in prominence within the soundfield. The delicate blend of music, discrete/ambient sounds, dialogue and bass is supremely enriching as it weaves an aurally stimulating pattern across the entire surround platform."



That's just one individual's take, and as we all know it doesn't make for a tried-and-true conclusion. I am one of those individuals that feel the Collector's Edition's TrueHD track dynamically changes the essence of this film's sound design.


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'Spectre' sounded awesome on Blu-ray.

See my comment above...


Indeed, it was far from "terrible" but I don't think I'd call it "impeccable"...
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post #62 of 242 Old 02-15-2016, 03:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post
If I can find it on the cheap, I may go for it. It is, after all, my favourite Bond movie if not my favourite movie in my collection.

Sounds like a plan...
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post #63 of 242 Old 02-15-2016, 03:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
More than one person in this thread alone disagrees with you.
Yeah but the most important person of this thread; he and I both agree...Ralph.

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That's just one individual's take, and as we all know it doesn't make for a tried-and-true conclusion. I am one of those individuals that feel the Collector's Edition's TrueHD track dynamically changes the essence of this film's sound design.
See my comment above...Indeed, it was far from "terrible" but I don't think I'd call it "impeccable"...
My opinion was based on uncertainty, I did emphasize it.

And the word "impeccable" is of my own choosing (opinion) to describe a soundtrack without faults.

____________ Anyway, technically 'Spectre' is without any obvious faults, irreproachable.
Film value (script, acting, entertainment, ...) wise though it falls short of 'Skyfall' and 'Casino Royale'. I don't need to mention that it's my opinion because of course it is; I don't know the cinema bible and the rules of laws in audio and picture...for my eyes and ears only. And tomorrow never dies.
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post #64 of 242 Old 02-15-2016, 04:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Yeah but the most important person of this thread; he and I both agree...Ralph.

That's sheer opinion (that someone is "the most important"); at the end of the day, that's still viewpoint, and I and some others believe the audio was not impeccable.

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My opinion was based on uncertainty, I did emphasize it.

And the word "impeccable" is of my own choosing (opinion) to describe a soundtrack without faults.

I understand the meaning of the word impeccable and how it's being used here -- but it is of my (and others') opinion that it does not meet the criteria for being impeccable. Are you entitled to your opinion about the mix? Sure. I'm merely saying it was not impeccable to my ears, nor the ears of some others who are participating in the thread. Just because the author of the review finds the audio to exhibit certain characteristics doesn't mean everyone else has to agree with that or find the same.

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____________ Anyway, technically 'Spectre' is without any obvious faults, irreproachable.

In your opinion...yes?


I thought we covered this already...


Quote:
Film value (script, acting, entertainment, ...) wise though it falls short of 'Skyfall' and 'Casino Royale'. I don't need to mention that it's my opinion because of course it is; I don't know the cinema bible and the rules of laws in audio and picture...for my eyes and ears only. And tomorrow never dies.

If you mention things without saying "in my opinion" and just state them as quasi-facts, it's difficult to imagine you mean anything else; if you feel Spectre was totally without fault technically (the audio and video) that's your right and you're entitled to it -- some of us disagree. As for the film value, I agree with you that it falls short of those other titles.
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post #65 of 242 Old 02-15-2016, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
I would have taken an Atmos track JUST for its core TrueHD mix -- would have sounded tremendously better than what we got here.
Hmmm..... How do you beat a 100 audio scorre? Might want to check your system..
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post #66 of 242 Old 02-15-2016, 09:26 PM
 
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Hmmm..... How do you beat a 100 audio scorre? Might want to check your system..

That's just one person's/reviewer's opinion. My system is fine; why is it that I can rate other soundtracks as "near 100" while others fall short if there was something "wrong"?


Why is it that Yosemite can say this about the audio:


And I wasn't particularly impressed with the sound either. It had shortcomings like the picture in the first 2 hours. The bass felt muddy and the dynamic range could have been better but then it seemed to open up for the last 30 minutes as well. The bass felt cleaner and the highs more distinct. So for both the video and audio to upgrade at the same 2 hour mark can only mean that they screwed up the transfer.

Or wkingincharge can say:

The audio/video presentation was also not as impressive or even in the same arena as Skyfall. The images just seemed soft at times but not the worst I have ever seen. The audio had some moments in the beginning but for the most part very boring. I guess my taste in soundtracks for movies like this tend to favor more of say Ghost Protocol . I will take some time and revisit this one down the road and maybe my opinion changes a little so for now my rankings are.



...and you don't pile on THEM for their findings? I wasn't the only one who didn't think the audio was worthy of a "100"...

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But of course...here we go yet again.


Doesn't say diddly squat until someone posts something about MY presentation findings and then he's gotta pile on with a "likes this" for no other reason than he can...

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post #67 of 242 Old 02-15-2016, 11:57 PM
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FWIW, I liked Blands post because of the "check your system" comment since I have mentioned to you several times, every time you wrongly blame DTS-MA for your audio mix complaints, that you clearly have some sort of issue on your end with MA tracks.

Do you not understand that if this exact same mix was in True HD it would be the exact same????? There is NOTHING magical about True HD as you seem to think! You clearly have an issue with your setup.

EDIT: Also, as far as Casino Royale True HD vs PCM, chances are they are the same mix and they are just mastered at a different volume level probably due to Dial Norm. Bump the PCM ~4db to compensate and chances are they would sound the same at that point. Ralph is the only one that seems to have done a fair comparison since it seems he is the only one who volume matched. IF there is still a difference once volume matched, then they are different mixes and again this has NOTHING to do with True HD in particular. Same mix in PCM or True HD once volume matched will sound and be identical.
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post #68 of 242 Old 02-16-2016, 10:38 AM
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I watched Spectre last Saturday on BD. It was good. Not great but good. I thought the sound was pretty good as well. I was using DSU 5.2.4, I was actually thinking of watching Casino Royale again. I'm not sure what version I have but I'm thinking it's the PCM version as I've had it for a while.
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post #69 of 242 Old 02-16-2016, 10:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Lozin View Post
I watched Spectre last Saturday on BD. It was good. Not great but good. I thought the sound was pretty good as well. I was using DSU 5.2.4, I was actually thinking of watching Casino Royale again. I'm not sure what version I have but I'm thinking it's the PCM version as I've had it for a while.
The original CR is a one-disc set. ...With PCM 5.1 audio (fine, excellent version, without the second disc that has more special features from the double-dip second version...Dolby TrueHD 5.1).

* I'll be revisiting 'Spectre' soon...but this time around with a 2D > 3D up-converted picture...for more immersive and dimensional image. ...Experimental.
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post #70 of 242 Old 02-16-2016, 01:42 PM
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Nice review as always mr.Potts! The panoramic scenes of that movie are just breath taking, and the colors, astonishing.

I loved that movie, but I'm kind of left wanting for more gadgets too. The more "down to earth" streak of Craig movies is excellent, but I'm feeling the recipe is getting a little overdone.

Craig makes a good Bond, but a thing I'm missing of the former characters is the classy and cocky side of Bond. Craig maybe is the most rough and "menacing" Bond character to date , but I'd like a little return to the sources on the James Bond character. I don't know, maybe a new actor would bring some fresh air to the franchise. I'm only throwing names up, but I'd see Bradley Cooper , or even Channing Tatum taking the role of the future Bond. Any other suggestions, people?
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post #71 of 242 Old 02-16-2016, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Aarghon View Post
Nice review as always mr.Potts! The panoramic scenes of that movie are just breath taking, and the colors, astonishing.

I loved that movie, but I'm kind of left wanting for more gadgets too. The more "down to earth" streak of Craig movies is excellent, but I'm feeling the recipe is getting a little overdone.

Craig makes a good Bond, but a thing I'm missing of the former characters is the classy and cocky side of Bond. Craig maybe is the most rough and "menacing" Bond character to date , but I'd like a little return to the sources on the James Bond character. I don't know, maybe a new actor would bring some fresh air to the franchise. I'm only throwing names up, but I'd see Bradley Cooper , or even Channing Tatum taking the role of the future Bond. Any other suggestions, people?
I would hate to see either of those guys attempting an English accent unless they decide to make Bond a parody. The best choice for the next Bond should be a lesser known actor as it has been for every Bond except for Moore. Brosnan may have been a brief TV star but not too many people watched Remington Steele. Having a better known star do it would just have you thinking he's doing an impersonation and a really bad one in the case of Cooper and Tatum.
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post #72 of 242 Old 02-16-2016, 04:24 PM
 
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I agree with Dan above that someone less well-known should probably take the reigns from Craig (as well as someone who boasts a NATURAL British accent, not an actor that would have to force it) -- although, I gotta say, when I read that Jason Statham was considering the position, I immediately fell in love with the idea. I have been following Statham almost his whole career in action film roles -- even his performance in John Carpenter's Ghosts of Mars -- and always thought he was a wickedly underrated fight/action film star. His latest romp as Deckard Shaw in Furious 7 was a SEVERE letdown for his fans, and I'd love to see him rise back up to the challenge with something like a Bond project. The thing is, there are more than a few "issues" we'd have to get through: First, this would be the first Bond without a full head of hair (unless they gave him a wig, which would be ridiculous IMO) and second, his age just wouldn't be right (depending on the chronology of the books being followed, I suppose). There's also the issue of Statham not really "jiving" with the sexual charisma given off by this character; sure, today bald is considered sexy by women...but would this look really work in Bond's shadowy spy world? In the plus column, I could TOTALLY see Statham kicking total ass as Bond, making the physical confrontation sequences with the henchmen and villains ridiculously exciting...even in a tux.

I think he could work, but here's a real kick in the balls: I read recently that Craig gave his "nod" to some douche kid in the group One Direction that wanted to play a younger Bond moving forward...Craig claims "he could totally envision" the One Direction member playing the character, and I didn't know if he was drunk, high or soaring on pain medicine at the time he made these statements...all I know is I cringed when I read the words.
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post #73 of 242 Old 02-16-2016, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Aarghon View Post
Nice review as always mr.Potts! The panoramic scenes of that movie are just breath taking, and the colors, astonishing.

I loved that movie, but I'm kind of left wanting for more gadgets too. The more "down to earth" streak of Craig movies is excellent, but I'm feeling the recipe is getting a little overdone.

Craig makes a good Bond, but a thing I'm missing of the former characters is the classy and cocky side of Bond. Craig maybe is the most rough and "menacing" Bond character to date , but I'd like a little return to the sources on the James Bond character. I don't know, maybe a new actor would bring some fresh air to the franchise. I'm only throwing names up, but I'd see Bradley Cooper , or even Channing Tatum taking the role of the future Bond. Any other suggestions, people?
I love Bradley Cooper but no way would I want to see him as Bond. Channing Tatum? Definitely not.

It has to be a Brit, IMHO. Henry Cavill has the physique/looks/charm and he's a British dude with the acting chops to pull off Bond. He's my pick. Sorry for OT.

Edit: They actually chose Daniel Craig over Cavill at the time because Cavill was too young. It was between the two of them. Now that he's grown up...
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post #74 of 242 Old 02-16-2016, 04:33 PM
 
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I love Bradley Cooper but no way would I want to see him as Bond. Channing Tatum? Definitely not.

It has to be a Brit, IMHO. Henry Cavill has the physique/looks/charm and he's a British dude with the acting chops to pull off Bond. He's my pick. Sorry for OT.

Edit: They actually chose Daniel Craig over Cavill at the time because Cavill was too young. It was between the two of them. Now that he's grown up...

I agree regarding Cooper and Tatum; ridiculous choices. But I don't see Cavill in the role, either; I think this ultimately has to be someone who is not that well known, which always works out best for whatever reason...


It's like, should we just put Robert DeNiro in the next Batman film as Alfred because...he was available?
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Tom Hardy, as the next Bond.
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post #76 of 242 Old 02-16-2016, 06:27 PM
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I would have taken an Atmos track JUST for its core TrueHD mix -- would have sounded tremendously better than what we got here.
LOL, how many times people needs to be reminded that there is no such thing as True HD mix, or DTS HD MA mix. None of those lossless codecs have any impact on the encoded PCM files or the sound, nor is being used for mixing. PCM is what being used and that's exactly what you get at home as well, regardless of which codecs are used for the file compression.
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post #77 of 242 Old 02-16-2016, 06:53 PM
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^^^The presumption was on my part, lacking specific knowledge as to whether both releases might have been simultaneous, or one the antecedent of the other, but in any event, such presumption does not lend itself to the apparently inferred differentiated connotation of "presumptuousness." That issue aside, I was motivated after posting to consult both Blu-ray.com:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Casino...-Blu-ray/1150/

...and highdefdigest.com:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1693...royale_ce.html

...both of whom addressed the issue of the audio of the Dolby TrueHD versus PCM tracks. The former seems to have thought as you do, IntelliVolume, that the later variant bested the first, the latter source concluded any distinctions were negligible.

.
Not only negligible it is the same exact mix, provided in the same format.PCM. True HD is nothing more than a delivery format in a smaller footprint and bandwidth of PCM. A compressed zip folder. It can also deliver metadata like Atmos, which is simply not possible with a straight delivery of PCM, which is one reason why these codecs are being used at all, and all without quality loss,unlike the old lossy codecs. People will post all kinds of opinions of how tracks sound, and it's been proven all the time that people claim differences where nothing is changed like these re issues. Studios won't remix titles this young and release it with the same channel configuration, unless they are nearfield mixes, [but usually those are done at the same time] or something went wrong like defective. I would expect a different mix only if they added Atmos or DTS X, which would be noted as well on the disc cover. For other type of re-issues,[not including restorations] it's extras, and fancy covers, not much more.
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post #78 of 242 Old 02-16-2016, 07:08 PM
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Oh yeah the subject on hand.
Someone posted about Rogue Nation being the same story but better executed, couldn't agree more. Furthermore the IM movies among others almost makes the Bond movies relics and redundant these days. Most of my issues already voiced by others, but I would go further saying that this franchise is really spent, and needs a break and a fresh approach. Maybe Disney can buy them.

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post #79 of 242 Old 02-16-2016, 08:29 PM
 
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LOL, how many times people needs to be reminded that there is no such thing as True HD mix, or DTS HD MA mix. None of those lossless codecs have any impact on the encoded PCM files or the sound, nor is being used for mixing. PCM is what being used and that's exactly what you get at home as well, regardless of which codecs are used for the file compression.
And how many times do "people" need to be reminded that it is my opinion and experience -- listening to soundtracks utilizing these codecs and comparing them -- that nearly all TrueHD tracks simply sound more dynamic, engaging, tactile and immersive than most Master Audio tracks? perhaps I should have reworded it to say "It is my opinion that most Blu-ray titles sporting TrueHD tracks sound better than those with Master Audio soundtracks...."

I truly don't care how many "LOL's" I receive here -- to my ears, TrueHD/Atmos-equipped titles such as Terminator Genisys and San Andreas sound significantly better than MA-equipped releases like Furious 7, Jurassic World, Spectre, Avengers, Avengers: Age of Ultron, World War Z, Man of Steel etc etc...
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Tom Hardy, as the next Bond.

You know something, Bob? I was gonna toss this off with a "please tell me you weren't serious" but after considering it, I can almost envision Hardy in the tux with the accent, seducing all the sexy women and beating the crap out of global terrorists...


This choice could possibly work...
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He would also make a good 'Spectre'.
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What do you mean -- a Bond bad guy?


If so, yeah...I mean after his chilling, terrorizing performance as Bane in Dark Knight Rises, he sure could be another "Mr. Hinx" of sorts for Bond to take on in an upcoming entry...
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post #84 of 242 Old 02-17-2016, 07:19 AM
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Spectre wasn't much of a Bond movie tbh, it was a good action flick though.

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post #85 of 242 Old 02-17-2016, 07:39 AM
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movie was ok but sound was the real highlight, one of the few films that I don't have to watch with volume remote in hand, the quiet scenes dialog was loud enough to hear without excessive volume and the loudest scene was the explosion of the remote ice mountain facility( did i say that right). Sound was mastered close to perfect imo, could have used some more LFE but otherwise it was great. Story line was ok but seems like spectre should have come before skyfall, hated seeing bond get old(couldn't even shoot straight)
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post #86 of 242 Old 02-17-2016, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post
Not only negligible it is the same exact mix, provided in the same format.PCM. True HD is nothing more than a delivery format in a smaller footprint and bandwidth of PCM. A compressed zip folder. It can also deliver metadata like Atmos, which is simply not possible with a straight delivery of PCM, which is one reason why these codecs are being used at all, and all without quality loss,unlike the old lossy codecs. People will post all kinds of opinions of how tracks sound,

and it's been proven all the time that people claim differences where nothing is changed like these re issues.

Studios won't remix titles this young and release it with the same channel configuration, unless they are nearfield mixes, [but usually those are done at the same time] or something went wrong like defective. I would expect a different mix only if they added Atmos or DTS X, which would be noted as well on the disc cover. For other type of re-issues,[not including restorations] it's extras, and fancy covers, not much more.
I've separated out a line that seemed particularly consequential to me. The phrase "proven all the time" troubles me -- it seems inexact of course by using "all the time" in place of specific instance, but the main reason I'm troubled is the term "proven" seems to want to suggest certainty where any certainty here weighs in the opposite direction. "People claiming differences" suggests to me not that people are liars, but that they actually experienced something differently. That is a very very powerful change -- some might say all the difference.

I told a doctor one time that if I caught a cold at earliest inception, then bombarded with vitamin C, it seemed to lessen the symptoms over the course of the following days. He then proceded to inform me of studies which he meant to have the effect of dismissing my experience. I responded that it was immaterial to me how the effect I described came about -- I was perfectly happy with activating a positive mindset with "falacy," since the difference remained quite real in any event. So people claiming differences equates to real differences which becomes what is "proved," and not the opposite, that you can prove there were no differences.

Perhaps that is something of an arcane existential exercise, but hearing is believing in my world, so I withhold judgment on how it might sound different to me. I did watch again all the action sequences of CR in pure PCM and did not find it lacking in LFE potency, but "info" on my MARANTZ showed that unlike with DTS MA or DOLBY TRU HD, DSU did not kick in with my back channels, so that seems one reason to favor the Collector's version.

I also looked into other versions of CR, and it is presented in DTS MA as well -- steelbook, I think. At one point or another, I will sample the Collector's version, and will be eagerly hoping to hear an augmented presentation -- that would be a most welcome difference whether "empirically based," or magic -- hey, it's all magic to me -- spin a plastic disc and you get more colors than the rainbow, and somehow traveling down those speaker wires are all the shades of the audible sonic spectrum, and somehow all that trickery lends itself to an emotional response? -- SORCERY!

Last edited by Emaych; 02-17-2016 at 11:26 AM.
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post #87 of 242 Old 02-17-2016, 12:27 PM
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I agree regarding Cooper and Tatum; ridiculous choices. But I don't see Cavill in the role, either; I think this ultimately has to be someone who is not that well known, which always works out best for whatever reason...


It's like, should we just put Robert DeNiro in the next Batman film as Alfred because...he was available?

I've asked the question knowing some people wouldn't agree with me. Some people like Blaster master respectfully disagreed. And brought up a suggestion.

But you... Did you feel obligated to turn my suggestion to ridicule , and throw up a grotesque idea to add even more ridicule to it? I would have appreciated a suggestion and other turn of words. But that's only me, I've been raised as a polite child choosing his words when talking to people.

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post #88 of 242 Old 02-17-2016, 12:35 PM
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I've separated out a line that seemed particularly consequential to me. The phrase "proven all the time" troubles me -- it seems inexact of course by using "all the time" in place of specific instance, but the main reason I'm troubled is the term "proven" seems to want to suggest certainty where any certainty here weighs in the opposite direction. "People claiming differences" suggests to me not that people are liars, but that they actually experienced something differently. That is a very very powerful change -- some might say all the difference.
Yeah it's called placebo, or power of suggestion, which all humans are susceptible to.
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I told a doctor one time that if I caught a cold at earliest inception, then bombarded with vitamin C, it seemed to lessen the symptoms over the course of the following days. He then proceded to inform me of studies which he meant to have the effect of dismissing my experience. I responded that it was immaterial to me how the effect I described came about -- I was perfectly happy with activating a positive mindset with "falacy," since the difference remained quite real in any event. So people claiming differences equates to real differences which becomes what is "proved," and not the opposite, that you can prove there were no differences.
You like to mince words, but the relevant fact [to this discussion] remains: There are no remixes involved on these releases you referring to, therefore any differences you experience is solely yours, and none of it can be attributed to the codecs or the mix, since they are the same. So however you wanna justify it is up to you as long as you accept the facts.
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Perhaps that is something of an arcane existential exercise, but hearing is believing in my world, so I withhold judgment on how it might sound different to me. I did watch again all the action sequences of CR in pure PCM and did not find it lacking in LFE potency, but "info" on my MARANTZ showed that unlike with DTS MA or DOLBY TRU HD, DSU did not kick in with my back channels, so that seems one reason to favor the Collector's version.
Of course, and as I've said already there are very good reasons why studios use these codecs.
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I also looked into other versions of CR, and it is presented in DTS MA as well -- steelbook, I think. At one point or another, I will sample the Collector's version, and will be eagerly hoping to hear an augmented presentation -- that would be a most welcome difference whether "empirically based," or magic -
You can also look for a sunrise on the west while you at it.
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hey, it's all magic to me -- spin a plastic disc and you get more colors than the rainbow, and somehow traveling down those speaker wires are all the shades of the audible sonic spectrum, and somehow all that trickery lends itself to an emotional response? -- SORCERY!
No magic just pure science, which is what tech is based on, but I would give you this there is plenty sorcery going on in audio as well, think of it like a Jedi mind trick...........
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post #89 of 242 Old 02-17-2016, 01:25 PM
 
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I've asked the question knowing some people wouldn't agree with me. Some people like Blaster master respectfully disagreed. And brought up a suggestion.

But you... Did you feel obligated to turn my suggestion to ridicule , and throw up a grotesque idea to add even more ridicule to it? I would have appreciated a suggestion and other turn of words. But that's only me, I've been raised as a polite child choosing his words when talking to people.

No, Aarghon, nothing of the sort my friend -- I meant absolutely no ridicule or disrespect, and I apologize if the response came across as such. I was merely agreeing that I don't think, personally, that Tatum or Cooper are right for this role. It's all good.
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post #90 of 242 Old 02-17-2016, 01:27 PM
 
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...Max, Legend, The Revenant, ...

So what do you mean by "he would make a good Spectre too"?
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