The "NOT HERS" HT/Basement Build - The Suffering Begins - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 802 Old 12-29-2008, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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12/29/2008

Tonight after procrastinating on the forums... I went down to clean up the mess hole..


Next, because of all of the earlier trim questions, I figured I would paint all the trim I needed plus a spare for the office area... then I realized that last night during my "break" I went online and updated my thread... then fell asleep.

I forgot to wash out my 20$ Purdy paint brush!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

After spazzing out for a second, I realized a trick my neighbor Mark's wife had taught me, saved me! She taught me that if you wrap a roller or brush up in plastic, it seals itself and the paint will not dry. Just out of habit I have done it like that ever since. I checked the brush and sure enough, it had sat out all night and was not one bit dry!

So major tip for those who care about your brushes


So after cleanup, I began painting and took the before and after pics (Some were a failed first coat attempt I sanded down for this repaint).

Before:


After:



In regards to the earlier questions, I tried and tried to take pictures of the small gaps that can occur between the drywall and trim, but the stupid camera wants to flash and will not show the shadow...

I did take a picture of the 45 degree splice for long walls. Ignore the chip on the top when I dropped it, it will be a quick 2 minute fix

I am such a NOOB at A/V..

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post #362 of 802 Old 12-30-2008, 01:37 PM
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Awesome advice all around. Like you I am no expert and have done a ton of learning as I go, I will certainly say your thread helps to ease the thought of doing trim and makes me want to do it this weekend...or at least buy it and start painting it.


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post #363 of 802 Old 12-30-2008, 03:40 PM
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Here is a good one, how much can one expect to pay for trim? roughly, just so I have a figure since I have absolutely no clue...thanks, and I dont mean to hijack your thread, it is just that we are heavy into the topuic of trim so I thought it would be a good place to ask...


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post #364 of 802 Old 12-30-2008, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Go to Lowes/HD and buy the contractor pack. It was less than 100$ for all my trim and I bought like 40% more than what I need due to it being cheaper that way.

Lowes search sucks, so these might not be the right SKUs, but the correct type I used:
Base Trim

Door Casing

The rest I am donating to the High School performing arts program for prop building.

I am such a NOOB at A/V..

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post #365 of 802 Old 12-30-2008, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staffy View Post

12/14/2008

Well after painting until 1 AM the night before, I started installing the door trim first. I made sure to use scrap pieces of baseboard trim as spacers to keep the trim off the floor and leave room to tuck carpet against them.

I learned a few things today through trial and error.. anytime you have an edge where drywall joints are, they are not perfectly flat.. Also 5/8" drywall has left a gap between the door and door trim. The easiest way to resolve this is to NOT nail the trim into the door jam first. This will cause the outside edge to kick out away from the wall.

Instead, I learned to hold the trim flat against the drywall, nail it into the wall studs first, then attach a few where needed into the trim. This leaves a slight gap which will be filled with painters caulk before the final paint is completed.

Below is a picture of my first ever attempt at installing door trim:


Now my neighbor Mark came over and was busting my balls saying that I left too big of a gap. I think he is smoking crack as I cannot get it any tighter than that. I cried myself to sleep...

**Note: A lifesaver was my other neighbor Brian who had a brand new Porter Cable pancake compressor and a 3-pack of finishing air nailers. He told me to use up the nails that came with it, but I did not want to do that and went down and bought all new boxes of nails that I will give him when I have completed the trim.

Your method works well when you are using paint and caulk, but just having come from a whole house interior door replacement (15 total and a French door built from scratch) where we replaced painted doors/trim with stained doors and trim I find the paint caulk option to be far more forgiving than stain.

I did have some areas where the trim was not flush with the door jamb/wall and what I did was to gently using a hammer flatten out the drywall to get a better fit. You can't fudge the fit when it comes to stain. You have to be very careful using the hammer to flatten the drywall too much and you will be in the position to use filler to repair the oops. I had to use this a couple of times and this can get you close enough to a tight fit that it becomes acceptable.

The other thing is regarding the door installation is that it is imperative you have the door EXACTLY plumb and square. The first door I did I really struggled with the installation and settled for "close enough" instead of exactly and now it is the only door in the house that is giving me any issues or problems.

To all here, don't be intimidated by trim even though it can seem daunting after a few pieces it does become "old hat". Just remember measure twice cut once. Crown molding, now that is a different story.

Staffy did have a great idea in using a tool to copy the angle of a cut that was not 90 or 45. Saves a lot of time and guess work.

Looking good Staffy,

Regards,

RTROSE


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post #366 of 802 Old 12-30-2008, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I admire you for the stain route, my next house will be all real wood/stained, etc. I will jump over that hurdle when it comes..

Absolutely agree about the door comments. In fact I have learned through trial and error that ALL framing is essential to having a good solid outcome. But as this is my first attempt, I have learned a TON and saved 10's of thousands of dollars and from what I have seen in other local homes, the quality I somehow managed to churn out is easily on par with some, and above par compared to most.

So if you really care about quality, you shell out big bucks and be a total dictator if you happen to find a good contractor, or learn to do it yourself and buy extra material.

If all else fails, tell yourself it looks awesome when the lights are out!

I am such a NOOB at A/V..

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post #367 of 802 Old 01-01-2009, 01:20 PM
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I know you mentioned using scrap trime to prop your trim at 3/8" but is that necessary for the doors as well, or do I just want to install that normal right on the floor without propping it up at all? Because people are all talk I spent the 20 buck today to rent the HD truck this morning and I went and bought 4 doors trim and casing.

you werent kidding about the contractor packs. I bought a 10 pack, 120' for 55 bucks and then needed like 75 feet, so I bought the 16 footers 88 feet total adding some for waste. I get everything and checked out thinking how was this so damn much? I start driving and get like 1/2 mile from HD when I pull out the receipt. I quickly turned around and went back. It turns out that 88 feet of trim cost me like 108 bucks and the casing I bought individually because I needed just 110 feet and was thinking the 150 feet in the contractor pack would leave a lot left over. Well it turns out the individual pieces cost 110 bucks. Like uh hell no I thought, so I returned all individual pieces and bought an extra contractor pack of trim and a contractor pack of casing. Now instead of 120 dollars I spent like 90. What a joke that it costs so much when buying it individually but it is so cheap when buying contractor packs which will lead to a lot of waste but oh well, I am saving money so I will not worry about it.


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post #368 of 802 Old 01-01-2009, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

I know you mentioned using scrap trime to prop your trim at 3/8" but is that necessary for the doors as well, or do I just want to install that normal right on the floor without propping it up at all? Because people are all talk I spent the 20 buck today to rent the HD truck this morning and I went and bought 4 doors trim and casing.

you werent kidding about the contractor packs. I bought a 10 pack, 120' for 55 bucks and then needed like 75 feet, so I bought the 16 footers 88 feet total adding some for waste. I get everything and checked out thinking how was this so damn much? I start driving and get like 1/2 mile from HD when I pull out the receipt. I quickly turned around and went back. It turns out that 88 feet of trim cost me like 108 bucks and the casing I bought individually because I needed just 110 feet and was thinking the 150 feet in the contractor pack would leave a lot left over. Well it turns out the individual pieces cost 110 bucks. Like uh hell no I thought, so I returned all individual pieces and bought an extra contractor pack of trim and a contractor pack of casing. Now instead of 120 dollars I spent like 90. What a joke that it costs so much when buying it individually but it is so cheap when buying contractor packs which will lead to a lot of waste but oh well, I am saving money so I will not worry about it.

Told you

Yes I used the spacer under the door casing as that is the way it is in the rest of my house and I figured the carpet needs to be tucked under it. They did the same thing for my hardwood floors as well. I see no way it hurts to do it this way as it will be unseen. On the flipside if you take the casing all the way to the door, it will be a pain later if the carpet guys tell you to cut it out. If in doubt, call the carpet installer.

Donate the leftover stuff, just cut it down so it fits in your car. Or put it on craigslist for free and throw it out at the curb and watch it disappear.

1. Paint all the wood you will need for doors plus a few extra. Use sawhorses to save your back.
2. Install the door casings, then paint baseboard trim.
3. Install baseboard trim.

Take pics along the way

I am such a NOOB at A/V..

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post #369 of 802 Old 01-01-2009, 05:37 PM
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Well, before I even get to start I have discovered a major issue...for some reason I roughed all my doors to 82" however the doors call for 82-1/4" wonderful, I will have to document my saga in my own thread as to not take over yours...


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post #370 of 802 Old 01-01-2009, 05:38 PM
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You could also take the left over trim to your local Habitat for Humanity ReStore. Check the Habitat site for info, but they will gladly take most building materials and you get a nice tax deduction.

CJ

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post #371 of 802 Old 01-01-2009, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

Well, before I even get to start I have discovered a major issue...for some reason I roughed all my doors to 82" however the doors call for 82-1/4" wonderful, I will have to document my saga in my own thread as to not take over yours...

See if you can cut 1/4 off the bottom - problem should be solved. If it affects the door, then 1/4" off on a tablesaw would not require you to do anything as the plugs in the end of the doors are over an inch tall...


Then of course a sawzall to the top board and move it up a tad would work too.

If you start another thread, include a pic, but don't sweat it, doors suck

I am such a NOOB at A/V..

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post #372 of 802 Old 01-01-2009, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staffy View Post

See if you can cut 1/4 off the bottom - problem should be solved. If it affects the door, then 1/4" off on a tablesaw would not require you to do anything as the plugs in the end of the doors are over an inch tall...


Then of course a sawzall to the top board and move it up a tad would work too.

If you start another thread, include a pic, but don't sweat it, doors suck


Yeah I found that, and for fun put it in place but that was it. Just knowing it fits is all I wanted to see this evening. So that was a relief. However, I found a new issue. It is partially my fault because I didn't just get a new door, but while loading the HD truck, the loading helper guy who is deaf dumped one of the doors off the cart and was unable to yell for me to grab it, so as it stood vertically is crashed to the ground. I looked it over quickly and everything appeared fine, I figured to use this as the door to the unfinished side of the basement so anything cosmetic I dont see wont be an issue. Well, when I opened the door, I noticed that it was split apart, the back molded piece was coming loose. So now I am frustrated as I rented a truck to get these items. I am left with 2 choices, either complain to HD and hopefully they let me take the truck for free and I waste an hour plus making 4 trips, 2 there 2 back, or I accept the splitting and put some liquid nails n there and glue the thing back together, heck the bond might even be better than the original one that was there...

Oh and by the way, how much space do you have between the bottom of your door and the floor? Does this depend heavily on carpet height? If so, I need to figure that out too I guess before installing the door, or is there a safe standard height that lets me put the doors in and worry about carpet later?


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post #373 of 802 Old 01-01-2009, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

Here is a good one, how much can one expect to pay for trim? roughly, just so I have a figure since I have absolutely no clue...thanks, and I dont mean to hijack your thread, it is just that we are heavy into the topuic of trim so I thought it would be a good place to ask...

Trim can vary significantly depending on what it's made of and how fancy the design is. I picked out base trim, chair and crown that ranged from $1.69 to $2.50/linear foot. The all wood trim fetches higher prices.


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post #374 of 802 Old 01-01-2009, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smakovits View Post


Oh and by the way, how much space do you have between the bottom of your door and the floor? Does this depend heavily on carpet height? If so, I need to figure that out too I guess before installing the door, or is there a safe standard height that lets me put the doors in and worry about carpet later?

Little over half an inch. You can always shave it down easily later. In the rest of the house, I had to do that to 2 doors after I got a thicker carpet installed..

Don't sweat it, I would rather have it too short now that have a 2 inch gap after you do carpet

It is just wood, plus the fact that no one will see whatever you do later to shave off the bottom of the door.

Call HD and bitch about the door, have them DELIVER a new one to you, do not puss out and drive back. They screwed up, and ask the manager to confirm the accident with the person who helped load it. If they are honest and admit it, ask them to drop off a new door and pick the otherone up and you will be a satisfied customer.

OH - and if you do not take pics, don't ask questions... TOO BORING!!!!!!!!! haha j/k

I am such a NOOB at A/V..

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post #375 of 802 Old 01-01-2009, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staffy View Post

.......doors suck

AMEN Reverend! Preach on!

I love how you can just get to the point of an issue without a lot of "Fluff".

Regards,

RTROSE


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post #376 of 802 Old 01-01-2009, 09:17 PM
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I didnt even think of that. I will call them in the morning. I will post pictures hopefully soon. I figured at this point you didnt want to look at a pile of trim on my basement floor.

I have to run to sherwin williams in the AM for some paint for the living room and while there plan to buy the trim paint. I saw you used one of the Purdy brushes, are those really worth the price they ask? And for painting trim is a brush the best solution? I assume a small roller wouldnt get it all...?


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post #377 of 802 Old 01-01-2009, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
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12/31/2008

Today's account of what Jay learned: Hacking up a hollow core door!

So after another week of analysis paralysis and investigating pocket door weight limits, hollow core vs solid core, craigslist scouring, incompetent home improvement supply information via the phone.... I said screw it and decided to go with hollow core and eliminate the risk of over-stressing the pocket door tracks. I had assistance from my neighbor Mark, and my other neighbor Brian, who had access to a table saw and has done this before.

I purchased two 32" wide hollow core door slabs from Lowes plus two of the following brushed handles for a total bill under $70.


The first step was to mark the doors to the proper desired length with a pencil and a carpenter's square.


Next we used a table saw to cut the doors off. This can turn out badly if you do not keep the door level and square when cutting, so definately use a helper to hold the door level while you cut! TIP: Place tape righ up to the cut line to prevent shreading the luan which is a splinter farm! The cut door will look like the following:


Now the next step in which you will plug the hole back up with wood, you have 2 options:

Option 1: Use the piece you cut off and strip off all the luan and glue off and use a sharp chisel to scrape it down to the desired thickness.


Option 2: Use a 2x4 and a tablesaw to cut it down to the desired thickness, which will be right around 1" - 1 1/8"


We chose option 2 as before I had one piece stripped of luan/glue, Brian showed off and ripped both new chunks of 2x4... so we went with that. Of course, me being stubborn, I finished cleaning off what I was doing and verified it would fit back in and could have been reused.

Next, Mark used wood glue on the inside of the door where the wood will go, flipped the door over and glued the other inner side. We did this to keep the mess down, plus it also lubes up the wood and allows it to slip into place easier with no mess.


Then using a hammer, we tapped the wood into place, it was nice and snug. We then used some scraps and 3 clamps to clamp everything down to let it dry for a day or so.


On to cutting out where the handles will go... based on instruction on the back of the boc, the hold were cut out with a jigsaw, also using tape along the cut lines to prevent splintering.


If you are making the door just a tad short, chances are if you cut the handle in at about 38" from the bottom of the door, you will cut through the center support and not need to brace the hole for the handle.

On the door I had to cut off 10 inches of, there was no support, so we used a scrap piece from the bottom plug and glued, slid in the wood, and clamped it.

That is all I know about cutting hollow core doors down, if other folks have any better tips, please share!

I am such a NOOB at A/V..

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post #378 of 802 Old 01-01-2009, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

I didnt even think of that. I will call them in the morning. I will post pictures hopefully soon. I figured at this point you didnt want to look at a pile of trim on my basement floor.

I have to run to sherwin williams in the AM for some paint for the living room and while there plan to buy the trim paint. I saw you used one of the Purdy brushes, are those really worth the price they ask? And for painting trim is a brush the best solution? I assume a small roller wouldnt get it all...?

All the pro painters I have hired use a brush, so that is what I did. With a roller, I could not get it on thick enough to give it that nice glossy shine and looked bumpy like when you paint drywall.

I really like the Cashmere line form Sherwin Williams.. I believe for trim they recommend medium luster. Feel free to ask them when you are there as well, they are a great source of knowledge, if you get the right person.

One tip regarding painting trim that I didn't discover until I mounted it, is that when you are painting it, make your first application of paint on the top thin area of the trim. I missed a few spots that I will have to catch on my final painting after all the nailholes are caulked.

Just take 1 hand and tilt the trim up and you can paint about 3 feet of the top part at once... lay it back down, then paint the rest of it up to that paint, move your paint down and repeat until you are at the end of the trim.

Rince/repeat on the next one.. Since I worked on a set of saw horses, I kinda just stacked them up on 1 side, then as I painted them, I used the brush handle on the bottom to lift and slide the trim to the edge of the saw horses. When I painted the next one, I slid it over within 1/4" of the previously painted one. I did this because after the 2nd hour of painting my back was killing me, so this way I did not have to hunch over to work.

Oh and don't be a dumbass like me and paint the bottom of the trim, no one will see that

I am such a NOOB at A/V..

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post #379 of 802 Old 01-02-2009, 07:20 AM
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Well, I did as instructed and didnt puss out, only problem is that HD cant deliver a new door til Tuesday. Oh well, I doubt I will manage to get that far any way by then, if I do, I have plenty of trim I can paint and install while I wait.


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post #380 of 802 Old 01-02-2009, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Cool, until tuesday and you are a satisfied customer, you buy everything at Lowes..... that is what I would have told them.

I am such a NOOB at A/V..

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post #381 of 802 Old 01-02-2009, 08:49 AM
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Cool, until tuesday and you are a satisfied customer, you buy everything at Lowes..... that is what I would have told them.

Oh yeah, it was painless. I thought it would be a whole ordeal but it went much smoother than I thought. I was ready to tell the lady I buy everything at HD because of the giant eagle gift cards and money off gas, but if they werent going to do this for me I was ready to say I will never shop HD again and take all my business to Lowes. Apparently I got the right person as she had no problem telling me they will deliver it. She first said that I can come get the truck for free, but I told her I dont feel like wasting over an hour of my time if they can just deliver it. So yeah, confrontation avoided and I am happy again.

Stopped at Sherwin Williams this morning and got my paint and 2.5" Purdy brush (damn expensive for a stupid paint brush), I now know why you were concerned that you ruined yours. I will see where I get with the painting and per your request, I will snap some photos.


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post #382 of 802 Old 01-02-2009, 10:12 AM
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HEY! one thing you failed to mention, unless I missed it was that with the primed trim and casing, they did a horrible job, or at least with the ones I got. There are craters and crap all over it and so I have spent the last bit of time sanding the stuff getting it ready for paint. It is very annoying needles to say...


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post #383 of 802 Old 01-02-2009, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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HEY! one thing you failed to mention, unless I missed it was that with the primed trim and casing, they did a horrible job, or at least with the ones I got. There are craters and crap all over it and so I have spent the last bit of time sanding the stuff getting it ready for paint. It is very annoying needles to say...

Yeah I inspected each piece and used a foam sanding block. Doesn't take much to get em somewhat smooth.

Suck it up, soldier

I am such a NOOB at A/V..

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post #384 of 802 Old 01-02-2009, 05:40 PM
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That is all I know about cutting hollow core doors down, if other folks have any better tips, please share!

Read the instructions that the pocket door rollers will hold 150lbs... Then bought a solid door. But all that stuff you did would work too.

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

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post #385 of 802 Old 01-02-2009, 05:46 PM
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Read the instructions that the pocket door rollers will hold 150lbs... Then bought a solid door. But all that stuff you did would work too.

Do I hear the ringing sound of a gauntlet being thrown down?

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Now a Certified Carpet Counselor and Plumbing Counselor (Self given titles - pay no attention).
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post #386 of 802 Old 01-02-2009, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Read the instructions that the pocket door rollers will hold 150lbs... Then bought a solid door. But all that stuff you did would work too.


DAMNIT!!.. well mine were from Stanley and have no mention of weight. The 2 door shops around me that I asked about solid core doors both told me to go with hollow core. The Johnson ones I was looking at originally would hold 150, but I don't trust Stanley since they do not specify.

My next set of pocket doors for sure will be Johnson, this set I had to use to cut my teeth with, I was learning too many new construction concepts at once and even with the prefab door framing, I had to redo the dang things 3 times... I can only imagine how many times it would have taken me with the Johnson kit!

Well I guess if I don't like them, I can try and find solid core slabs later and replace em. Since they aren't in the theater, I could care less

Thanks for being only 2 hours away and not coming to the rescue... wanker

I am such a NOOB at A/V..

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post #387 of 802 Old 01-02-2009, 09:23 PM
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Did you say STANLEY???


Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

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post #388 of 802 Old 01-02-2009, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Did you say STANLEY???





WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mine didn't come with highlighted text.... SOB I look to my left at the paper sitting next to my PC and see it plain as day... I went into retardo mode and read everything EXCEPT the heading text..

Just shoot me


I come of from inhaling paint (primer) fumes to see this crap? Where is the love man? Where is the love? Damn, now I wonder what the heck I should do, I can't take cut/primered doors back

I am such a NOOB at A/V..

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post #389 of 802 Old 01-02-2009, 09:42 PM
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Mine didn't come with highlighted text....

They didn't HIGHLIGHT my instructions either.

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I can't take cut/primered doors back

"Honest, miss return lady. They were this color when I bought them."

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

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post #390 of 802 Old 01-02-2009, 09:48 PM
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I know nothing about pocket doors although I do know staffy was busting my chops the other day because i showed him no pictures so here is one to get him off my case. And as he stated, unless you are buying like one piece or a few feet, you might as well buy the contractor packs. It is WAAAAYYYY! cheaper.


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