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post #1 of 52 Old 04-17-2008, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I just got a quote on a mini split install for my ht room -electricity.

This is an estimate for a Mitsubishi Split Ductless Unit
Installation of a Mitsubishi split system for a 13' x 19' room.
1-Mitsubishi MSZA09NA 9 MB wall heat pump
1-Mitsubishi MUZA09NA 9MBH R410A inverter condenser
Line set
Condenser pad
All accessories
Estimated price: $3950.00

This seems rather high for a unit that costs a little over a K. I've seen posts where others are not paying much more than this for two units. I'm looking for other reputable installers for quotes, but I don't know anyone who has even heard of one of these things, much less knows what an install should cost. Thoughts? Thanks.
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post #2 of 52 Old 04-17-2008, 09:31 PM
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We were looking at a Ductless unit to compliment our current HVAC system and it was definitely a lot higher than I expected (~$1500) to cool one room. It seems this technology is much higher in the US then it is in Europe and South America.
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post #3 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 04:40 AM
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I paid $1700 for the unit, the special add-on unit that allows it to cool even in the winter a dump for drainage and all of the install parts. I plan on doing the rough in this weekend and just pay a tech for the final hook-up. So my labor costs should only be a few hundred at most.

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post #4 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 05:15 AM
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In my opinion the full service HVAC companies charge home owners through the nose for this kind of work by adding a big markup on top of the equipment and labor cost. That is the overhead needed to keep a big operation going and pay the owner his profit. You can certainly buy the equipment much cheaper but then you need someone to install.
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post #5 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 05:48 AM
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I paid $5900 for two separate Fujitsu 12RLQ (12k btu heat pump/AC) with install, two condensate pumps, etc. Electrical to an outside disconnect was separate.

I then received $600 in power company rebates and $300 from the Fed making the net cost $5000 for both system. They are magnificent.

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post #6 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 06:03 AM
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It's can be hard for an individual to simply purchase the equipment yourself if you don't have EPA certification and equipment. Most general trade outlets like Grainger and Johnston Supply won't sell to you without a license. The HVAC industry got a bonus when the EPA limited sales of most refrigeration equipment to those holding a Universal license and equipped with all the tools such as reclamation pumps and tanks. It's supposed to be all about global warming and ozone depletion but it conveniently attempts to restrict supply to the trade.

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post #7 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 06:20 AM
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That does seem high. I paid around $1k for a "no-name" brand 2 ton unit heat/cool mini split for my garage on ebay. Paid an HVAC mechanic $100 to vacuum the lines and do the final hookups (I did the rest). He was actually impressed with the apparent quality. A year later and it's still going strong.
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post #8 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 06:47 AM
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I bought a Soleus unit to cool/heat a garage conversion. Paid around $600. I installed my self and had a HVAC tech come by to charge and inspect the install. Tech charges me $100 and basically did nothing. The unit came pre cahrged. The install is fairly simple. Just install on walll, drill hole to outside run lines through hole and install condensor outside. If you have power close by the work should be fairly simple. Maybe you can get a handy man type to do the install and have an hvac tech combe by to inspect. Should be a lot cheaper than the quote you got.
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post #9 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 06:57 AM
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ummm yeah....I would just buy the equipment online

http://www.nextag.com/mini-split-air...er/search-html

and do the rough install and have an AC tech come inspect and charge the system.

No way in hades would I pay someone $4K for one of these.
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post #10 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grigsby View Post

ummm yeah....I would just buy the equipment online

http://www.nextag.com/mini-split-air...er/search-html

and do the rough install and have an AC tech come inspect and charge the system.

No way in hades would I pay someone $4K for one of these.

Yeah i looked at the LG from this site
http://www.airconditioner.com/MINI_SPLITS.asp
also a few other good deals on there ..
going to install myself and get a pro to for the final hookup
hoping to keep it to around 1600 for 2 units out the door...tag, tax and title..
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post #11 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grigsby View Post

ummm yeah....I would just buy the equipment online

http://www.nextag.com/mini-split-air...er/search-html

and do the rough install and have an AC tech come inspect and charge the system.

No way in hades would I pay someone $4K for one of these.

Yeah i looked at the $299 LG unit from this site
http://www.airconditioner.com/MINI_SPLITS.asp
also a few other good deals on there ..
going to install myself and get a pro to for the final hookup
hoping to keep it to around 1600 for 2 units out the door...tag, tax and title..
Max

Let a Nation of Black & Gold rise up.
Go forth and proclaim "YOUR IN STEELERS COUNTRY!!"
Go Steelers!!!

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post #12 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 10:13 AM
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I agree. sounds very high. I installed a Samsung mini split (~12K btu air cond/heat) 110V in my last house for my son in the attic which I finished. I did get it from my brother in law at cost since he sells HVAC ( residential/commercial). I think I paid about $700-800. They are pricey, but no way should it cost that much even at full retail price.
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post #13 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I've gotten two informal quotes today. One for a Mitsubushi and one for a Daikin. both were for $2700. Equal cost for parts and labor seems a little more reasonable.

I'm a little reluctant to buy one online, then try to find someone to do the final hookup. I can't imagine too many installers would be happy to do that.
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post #14 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BShaw@BedHandles View Post

It's can be hard for an individual to simply purchase the equipment yourself if you don't have EPA certification and equipment. Most general trade outlets like Grainger and Johnston Supply won't sell to you without a license. The HVAC industry got a bonus when the EPA limited sales of most refrigeration equipment to those holding a Universal license and equipped with all the tools such as reclamation pumps and tanks. It's supposed to be all about global warming and ozone depletion but it conveniently attempts to restrict supply to the trade.

For most HVAC you would be right, but for most Mini-split units, the unit is pre-charged and you just make the connections which open the valve automatically kind of like a car tire, so there is no need for any charging or purging of the system.

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post #15 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghause View Post

I've gotten two informal quotes today. One for a Mitsubushi and one for a Daikin. both were for $2700. Equal cost for parts and labor seems a little more reasonable.

I'm a little reluctant to buy one online, then try to find someone to do the final hookup. I can't imagine too many installers would be happy to do that.

go here

http://www.alpinehomeair.com/

they send tutorial DVDs with their products that show you exactly how to do the install. They also have a service that will hook you up with a contractor to do the entire install or a portion of it. But it seems that these systems come pre-charged so I don't really see you needing any assistance.
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post #16 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee L View Post

For most HVAC you would be right, but for most Mini-split units, the unit is pre-charged and you just make the connections which open the valve automatically kind of like a car tire, so there is no need for any charging or purging of the system.

You got me thinking. I Googled a while and all I find are mini-split systems that require evacuating, leak checking and balancing as with traditional HVAC installations. Yes the condensers do come pre-charged with gas but this doesn't mean that all that needs to be done is to open the valve. Can you post some links to plug-n-play mini-splits that are designed to be simply connected without the need for any other system preparation? Thanks!

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post #17 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grigsby View Post

go here

http://www.alpinehomeair.com/

they send tutorial DVDs with their products that show you exactly how to do the install. They also have a service that will hook you up with a contractor to do the entire install or a portion of it. But it seems that these systems come pre-charged so I don't really see you needing any assistance.

I looked up the Comfort-aire mini-split at Alpinehomeair.com and this system is just like every one that I have found so far: You need to evacuate the lines and evaporator by drawing a deep vacuum to remove any air and moisture as well as leak check before allowing the pre-charged refrigerant gas to flow from the condenser. After that the gas charge must be checked and might need adjusting to allow for different lengths of service lines and condenser placement - just like any other HVAC unit. The pre-charge is just an approximation of the final amount of gas needed for obtaining the engineered SEER efficiency.

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post #18 of 52 Old 04-18-2008, 06:15 PM
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When I bought mine about a year ago there were very significant differences in efficiency between the Mitusbishi/Fujitsu (highest efficiency), LG/Samsung (mediuma efficiency), and Soleus/others (lowest efficiency). You usage might not justify the higher cost for more efficient units.

FYI, was in Shanghai a few weeks ago and these mini-splits are EVERYWHERE. Entire sides of apartment building, all the way across every apartment and on every floor, are the outdoor units on little shelves attached to the sides of the high rise buildings. Suspect they are used for heat and AC. In the street markets are vendors with units and parts. They must be much less expensive there.

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post #19 of 52 Old 04-19-2008, 07:56 AM
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I have the Mr Slim model that does both heating and cooling. It comes with two splits that go upstairs and downstairs. I used it exclusively for heating and cooling and have seen a savings on electricity of about 15%. The good news is that I didn't actually pay for it as it was installed for free by my electric company as part of a pilot.

In looking at adding another, the local guys are charging around $3K.
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post #20 of 52 Old 04-19-2008, 08:54 AM
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Just as an aside what would be an advantage to this over a conventional HVAC system aside from a few grand saved, wouldnt you come out better in the long run getting a full system if you gotta pay that much anyway, or am I off base?

Just turned on my first projector on 17 Aug 2007 and I think I am hooked :).

Why does everyone that comes over ask how much it cost?
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post #21 of 52 Old 04-19-2008, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Personally I have radiant heat and don't have central air. No ducts. I really only want to cool one room.
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post #22 of 52 Old 04-19-2008, 02:53 PM
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I purchased a Mitsubishi online, it is the smallest heat pump they make with and inverter. It both heats and cools and is very efficient. I checked out almost every brand of mini-split before I purchased. Fujitsu, Mitsubishi, Solaris, Sanyo, Goodman, Hitachi, etc. For me it was worth buying what most people consider a top name brand, Mitsubishi. The other thing to consider is noise, the Mitsubishi I purchased is rated at 22dB on its lowest setting. This is dead quiet at a distance of 10 feet and actually quieter than my projector. I paid about 1,700 for the unit, roughed it in myself, and paid an HVAC contractor 800 to finish the connections and test it. I have had it almost one year and it was worth the money. Any questions, let me know.
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post #23 of 52 Old 04-19-2008, 05:11 PM
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My only quote so far is around $3000, I dont want to pay it and I love that this thread EXISTS now.

My painting is done so Im onto doing walls and carpeting. Its getting hot in Florida so air conditioning would be great in the room.

I will re-read to see what system is the best and how much work it will take.

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post #24 of 52 Old 04-19-2008, 05:51 PM
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Ebay item 180232417568

TOSHIBA Mini-split....

Performance data

Nominal cooling capacity: 8850 BTU/ h EACH
Nominal performance rating: 13.8 SEER
Nominal heating capacity: 9000 BTU/h
Refrigerant: R410A Outdoor Sound Level/(DB): 49
Indoor Sound Level/(DB):H 31M-29-L22 SPEED

Power Supply

Voltage: 230 or 208 breaker 20amps
Operating Range: 0-115 Degrees
Indoor Connection Method: Flare
Outdoor Connection Method: Flare



This is a dual zone mini-split. I always wanted to cool my house A/V closet for 1 hour a day...its gets hot in there. The closet is below the HTRoom so its not too far away too I would just run two lines outside. My HTRoom is 13x25 so 8800 BTU should work.

Lets see $1200 or so for that...another $500 to a HVAC guy wanting extra cash on weekends and thats WAY under $3000.

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post #25 of 52 Old 04-19-2008, 05:58 PM
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13.8 SEER is not very efficient. New efficient units run up to 21 SEER.
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post #26 of 52 Old 04-19-2008, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
13.8 SEER is not very efficient. New efficient units run up to 21 SEER.

Yeah, I know. Many of the online cheap units are 13 or 14 SEER. Its the minimum rating.

Any links for the 21 SEER products?

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post #27 of 52 Old 04-20-2008, 07:24 AM
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I spent last night looking online for min-splits and most are 13 or 14 SEER. The higher SEER products are way more expensive.

I have decided to buy item 180232417568 from ebay (best offer accepted $100 less then price). Its a dual zone mini-split and its only $1200 shipped. I never found another dual zone mini-split even close to that price. I really want my Office/AV closet to get better air, its hot in there in the summer in florida.

The SEER is important but not extremely important since the HT Room will be used a couple times a week and mostly at night so its a little cooler to start with.


These are not out until May so its a pre-order. Lets hope everything works out. The products is in Ft Lauderdale too so I might take a trip down there and pick it up saving money.


btw, thanks to the OP for starting this thread. It reminded me that I needed to do this and I think Im going to save atleast $1000!! and I get my Office cooled!

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post #28 of 52 Old 02-15-2011, 10:53 AM
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Can somebody post recent prices? For this year - 2011? or How much did you save with a mini split on electric bills if you installed it a year or two ago?

Thanks
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post #29 of 52 Old 02-15-2011, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee L View Post

For most HVAC you would be right, but for most Mini-split units, the unit is pre-charged and you just make the connections which open the valve automatically kind of like a car tire, so there is no need for any charging or purging of the system.

There are no EPA restrictions on the purchase of any HVAC equipment. You can buy a condenser charged or not. Now you can't buy Freon without an EPA license. But you can buy everything else like vacuum pumps, gauge sets, special tools - just not the tank of Freon.

It is illegal to open/close those valves or even connect test gauges to a system without an EPA license. IOW, you can't "touch" the Freon in any way. But you can legally replace a fan or electrical control without any license. And you can purchase any component like refridgerant plumbing, valves, even a replacement compressor - just not the Freon.

Sounds silly but then remember this is a federal law and since when did any federal government agency like the EPA ever have common sense.

Now here's the catch with Grainger and Johnstone. They will only sell to commercial accounts. Meaning you need to have a business license. There are ways around that. For example my employer has accounts at both. So I just go in and pay with a personal credit card but use the company account. But again I still can't buy a tank of Freon because I do not have an EPA license. Nevertheless I still do all my own HVAC service. And I do have a tank of R22 freon, never mind where I got it !

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post #30 of 52 Old 08-07-2012, 05:55 PM
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It sounds like whinning. Licensed guy's have overhead and tools to do the job right . They also have to carry warranty on the equipment. When you buy it online and have an unlicensed guy install it then there is no more warranty. I wonder what you all charge for the services in your own fields. I am sure you have reasons for the price you charge and so do the hvac pro's. There is also a difference in the quality of certain brands that only experince in the trade could teach you. The reason the epa had to restrict the sell of the freon and equipment is because every home owner with a hammer is some how instantly a know it all and ends up making a mess of things and then the county, state and fed's have to step in and make more laws and codes, that we need more inspectors for, and more hoops that the contractor has to jump through, which means more cost to the home owners trying to do it right. Maybe if you paid more attention to your own trade and less on others then you to could have it installed correctly.I am not trying to start a fight, but with all the previous comments someone had to stand up for the business owner.
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