Cuss me if you like but some kind fo response would be nice!! - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 37 Old 04-27-2008, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
daxhughes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am setting up my theater room using the following:

Pioneer Kuro 60 inch plasma 150fd
B&W 804s for fronts
HTM3S center
Ds8 dipolar rears
Sunfire Signature EQ sub
NAD preamp and amp

DOES THIS HAVE POTENTIAL FOR A GREAT HT??


I want to get the best sound possible. I will sit 10' from the monitor so that i am equal with the distance from my fronts from one another. I am trying to create as close to an equalateral triangle as possible.

!) QUESTION- That will put my fronts around 1' from the side walls. Is that enough? They will be around 2 1//2' from front wall.

2) Because I am only sitting 10' from monitor I will be 13' ft from my back wall. That seems pretty far away from the rear wall.

a) Is that an acoustic issue? Does it help or hurt being so far away?
b) What kind of acoustic treatment should I use on the back wall- absorbant shields or dissonance or none?

3) I want to do a good job with acoustic shielding.

a) I am thinking a shield on the front wall behind each front speaker (excluding center).
b) First reflection points on side wall using mirror trick.

1) Should i do ceiling first reflection point (flat drywall)?
2) I have carpet on the floor.

c) What thickness should I use on the absorbant shields 1" or 2"?

d) How important are bass traps and where should I put them in the top 4 corners or just the middle of the four corners?


THANKS FOR THE ADVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
daxhughes is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 37 Old 04-27-2008, 09:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Stew4msu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Wylie, Texas, USA
Posts: 7,076
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxhughes View Post

DOES THIS HAVE POTENTIAL FOR A GREAT HT??

No.

It's very hard to have a great HT with a 60" TV. A seating distance of 10' won't even give you the full benefit of 1080p (with that size screen). You need to go with front projection for a great HT.

"The dream never dies, just the dreamer."

Stew4msu is offline  
post #3 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 07:01 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
JOHNnDENVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
The screen size or lack there of is hurting you here....
Do a search on THX, screen size, seating distances.


You can move your seating closer if your set on such a small screen size.
JOHNnDENVER is offline  
post #4 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 07:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Cathan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Let me also add that posting the same message half a dozen times during the spam of a couple of hours is a sure-fired way to piss people off too. This a forum largely comprised of do-it-yourselfers. Coming in and asking someone to complete an audio design of your room just isn't going to happen. Now if you spend some time an read (like the master acoustic thread pinned on top) and educate yourself, you may get some people to way in.

If on the other hand you want some one to do the work for you then just hire a pro. Just please stop spamming.

Cathan is offline  
post #5 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 07:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
GreySkies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Formerly Chicagoland, now Doylestown, PA
Posts: 2,420
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Screen size is too small. That Kuro is a great tv, but not the center of a home theatre.
GreySkies is offline  
post #6 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 07:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
E-A-G-L-E-S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,721
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Yes.
That Kuro looks amazing and no PJ can be treated like a flat panel.
HT is a subjective term.
To have both a PJ and a t.v is ideal, but to get a full PJ set-up that can match the Kuro in PQ will cost you an arm and a leg.
So to get a flat panel and a PJ set-up, both with great PQ will cost you two arms and two legs.

Not to mention a wall mounted flat panel looks better than a big 'ole screen if going in a common living area and not a dedicated HT....in my personal experience.
If you are shooting for a dedicated HT room, then a high quality expensive PJ set-up would be the better choice.

You have quality gear and should enjoy that set-up a whole lot.

A home theater, to me, is a place where you watch entertainment and try to outdo a theater...whether that is with a flat panel or a PJ.
-jmo
E-A-G-L-E-S is offline  
post #7 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 07:35 AM
Advanced Member
 
imprez25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 584
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
imprez25 is offline  
post #8 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 07:39 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rboster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 17,563
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Multiple threads asking the same questions maybe a hinderance in getting proper responses....it's helpful when members respond to see what's been suggested within the other posts...if you have Six threads going on at the sametime (some posted within hours of eachother in the same forum), it defeats that benefit.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1023765

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1023772

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1023687

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1023774

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post13741418

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post13741420

Please post once in only one forum and allow members to respond over days and (if necessary) a couple of weeks. One should not expect sameday feedback and analysis.

"Retired" AVS Moderator
rboster is offline  
post #9 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 09:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
McCall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
"DOES THIS HAVE POTENTIAL FOR A GREAT HT??"

No, it has the potential for an OK media room with some more acoustical work.

Part of the problem is there are many variations of the idea of Home theater. From anything with a picture and more than TV speakers to full blown home cinema with screen projector and BU KU equipment.

McCall
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Yup that really IS me in the avatar.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...he+Mickelodeon
McCall is offline  
post #10 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 09:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
E-A-G-L-E-S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,721
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by McCall View Post

"DOES THIS HAVE POTENTIAL FOR A GREAT HT??"

No, it has the potential for an OK media room with some more acoustical work.

Part of the problem is there are many variations of the idea of Home theater. From anything with a picture and more than TV speakers to full blown home cinema with screen projector and BU KU equipment.

So how can you say "no" so definitively? Even you just said there are different ways to define it, no?
Does an inferior PQ as long as it's from a PJ make it more of a "Home" Theater than a better PQ not from a PJ? It's all subjective.
-jmo
E-A-G-L-E-S is offline  
post #11 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 10:02 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
JOHNnDENVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

So how can you say "no" so definitively? Even you just said there are different ways to define it, no?
Does an inferior PQ as long as it's from a PJ make it more of a "Home" Theater than a better PQ not from a PJ? It's all subjective.
-jmo


PQ is more subjective than field of view guidlines in my opinion.
JOHNnDENVER is offline  
post #12 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 10:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Cathan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I'm with McCall. When I go to the movies I'm not paying $10 to see the film on a TV. 60" screen at 10' distance is like a 2.5 size to distance view ratio. Even the crappiest movie theater has better options then that.

Anyway, I hate rewarding someone who spams the hell out of the forums for a couple of hours and then doesn't ever check in by even having this discussion.

Cathan is offline  
post #13 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 10:04 AM
Senior Member
 
percept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
an "OK" media room with a 60" kuro and b&w fronts?? i'd like to hear your definition of a good, or even exceptional media room.
percept is offline  
post #14 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 10:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Cathan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
It's still a media room.

Cathan is offline  
post #15 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 10:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
E-A-G-L-E-S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,721
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

PQ is more subjective than field of view guidlines in my opinion.

Could you explain further as I didn't quite get what you were trying to say?
Thank you.



Cathan...so if there is no PJ it is not a "home" theater room to you? Does it matter if that PJ and screen set-up are inferior? So, size is all that matters to you?
I wont go to the movies because the PQ is lacking. The sound is great and the immersion is great....but I get more enjoyment from a better PQ and a better enviroment.
E-A-G-L-E-S is offline  
post #16 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 10:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Cathan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

Could you explain further as I didn't quite get what you were trying to say?
Thank you.



Cathan...so if there is no PJ it is not a "home" theater room to you? Does it matter if that PJ and screen set-up are inferior? So, size is all that matters to you?
I wont go to the movies because the PQ is lacking. The sound is great and the immersion is great....but I get more enjoyment from a better PQ and a better environment.

Distance to screen size is an important part of the equation. The means to end (plasma, RP, PJ, etc.) isn't the key factor. And yes, sound is also important. But 60" screen at 10' doesn't a "dedicated home movie theater" make. Not based on these forum standards. It's not even close...

Based on the viewing distance that THX recommended for 16:9 is a min of 78". Or reversely, move the seating up to around 6'. But around here for 2.25:1 builds, a distance to size ratio of close to 1.0 is the norm for theaters.

And again, that is not saying it won't be a great tv room. Certainly better then what I have.

Cathan is offline  
post #17 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 10:38 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
JOHNnDENVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

Could you explain further as I didn't quite get what you were trying to say?
Thank you.



Cathan...so if there is no PJ it is not a "home" theater room to you? Does it matter if that PJ and screen set-up are inferior? So, size is all that matters to you?
I wont go to the movies because the PQ is lacking. The sound is great and the immersion is great....but I get more enjoyment from a better PQ and a better enviroment.


Basically, that if he uses a 60" display, he should move his seating way closer. On the PQ front I still don't agree. My own Projector at such a small screen size takes on a Kuro or any other 60" plasma quite well on PQ.
JOHNnDENVER is offline  
post #18 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 10:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
E-A-G-L-E-S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,721
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
So immersion factor is what makes the difference. I understand that and can appreciate the point.
Truth be told, if I had the money I would own two $5K displays. A top-notch PJ and a Kuro.

Which PJ John? I only owned a decent PJ, a Marantz VP4001 and it couldn't hold a candle, but it cost less too.
Someday I will get both of high quality and that will be a great day
E-A-G-L-E-S is offline  
post #19 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 11:17 AM
Senior Member
 
osiris13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
5k does not get you remotely close to a "great" projector. It gets you in the ballpark of some very good ones (RS-1, VW60), but to really get into the top of the category, you're looking at numbers in the 10's of thousands at least.

I'm with most people here. For most people, immersion is really the key to a great theater experience, even at the cost of absolute picture quality. Everyone has their own personal threshold for what would be acceptable to them, but the quality of even mid-range projectors today is stunning compared to the best on the market a few years ago.
osiris13 is offline  
post #20 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 11:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
E-A-G-L-E-S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,721
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I just wish you could treat a PJ like a t.v., then I would buy the very best PJ I could as I do love a big image.
But PQ is the most important thing to me by far.
E-A-G-L-E-S is offline  
post #21 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 11:30 AM
Member
 
theHTguru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by osiris13 View Post

5k does not get you remotely close to a "great" projector.

If you've ever viewed an RS1, VW60, VP15S1 or especially an RS2, you'd realize that $5-6k can buy you a projector that is 98% of the performance of projectors costing tens of thousands. More may buy more lumens, etc. but on/off CR and black level, shadow detail, etc. is RS2's claim to fame.
theHTguru is offline  
post #22 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 11:35 AM
Senior Member
 
osiris13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by theHTguru View Post

If you've ever viewed an RS1, VW60, VP15S1 or especially an RS2, you'd realize that $5-6k can buy you a projector that is 98% of the performance of projectors costing tens of thousands.

I have a VW60, an RS-1, and a VW-200 within 100ft of where I'm typing this from. I never said that any of them were slouches, in fact I said in my last sentence of my original post that they perform at an extraordinary level. That said, there are projectors which are in an elite class, and none of the models you listed are in that group, although the degree to which the higher-priced models are superior is much, much smaller than you would see stepping from something like an entry-level piece (Sony AW15 for instance) to an upper-mid-level piece (Sony VW60).
osiris13 is offline  
post #23 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 12:36 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
JOHNnDENVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

So immersion factor is what makes the difference. I understand that and can appreciate the point.
Truth be told, if I had the money I would own two $5K displays. A top-notch PJ and a Kuro.

Which PJ John? I only owned a decent PJ, a Marantz VP4001 and it couldn't hold a candle, but it cost less too.
Someday I will get both of high quality and that will be a great day

I think we fundementally disagree here, because I am not that big of a fan of plasma. PQ is subjective, the amount of space in your field of view that the image takes up is not even though people have definet preferences in this area as well.
JOHNnDENVER is offline  
post #24 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 01:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Johnsteph10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: GA
Posts: 4,274
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 20
To the OP:

I'll choose just to "cuss" you. We're a group of dedicated individual adults here of varied backgrounds and means.

Being patient and sharing our knowledge and experience is what makes this a great resource.

If you cannot understand that, then maybe you don't really have a place here.

John

Loganed...finally. 6/6/08
My 3.0 HT Build Thread
Johnsteph10 is offline  
post #25 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 01:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
McCall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

Could you explain further as I didn't quite get what you were trying to say?
Thank you.



Cathan...so if there is no PJ it is not a "home" theater room to you? Does it matter if that PJ and screen set-up are inferior? So, size is all that matters to you?
I wont go to the movies because the PQ is lacking. The sound is great and the immersion is great....but I get more enjoyment from a better PQ and a better enviroment.

This is the point I was trying to make. I have seen 14" monitors with surround sound speakers called Home theater.

TO the general public if it has a large TV and even 3 speakers but usually 5 then it is a "home theater"
Realize that to most of the people on this particular forum, a Home theater means a dedicated dark room with a projector and usually theater seating either "Movie" seating or Lounge movie seating. minimum 5.1 usually 7.1 or better.

So it is in fact all very relative.
With the items the OP mentioned he can have a nice Media room, if he does his homework and does not ignore acoustics or light treatment, He can have a nice "home theater" like most of the people on the other board here the media room subform.

In other words What he was asking is a matter of semantics, and deffinition etc. and of asking the right audience the question.

Nothing wrong with a decent TV and speakers but it is not the same experience as a dedicated theater.

McCall
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Yup that really IS me in the avatar.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...he+Mickelodeon
McCall is offline  
post #26 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
daxhughes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
You guys are really helping. thank you. I spent alot of money for this to be a less than ok room.

I have an Optoma HD72 projector but like the 60 inch pioneer better.
daxhughes is offline  
post #27 of 37 Old 04-28-2008, 09:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Stew4msu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Wylie, Texas, USA
Posts: 7,076
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I have 2 general rule's of thumb for a home theater:

1. If 100 people see the room and they all say it's a home theater, then it is.

If some say it's a living room (or kitchen or dining room or basement or media room or entertainment area, etc.), then it's not.

2. If you were to list your home for sale, how would the Realtor describe it?

If it's listed as a home theater then it probably is. If it's listed as a living room (or bedroom or media room or bonus room, etc.), then it's not.


A home theater should be obvious.

"The dream never dies, just the dreamer."

Stew4msu is offline  
post #28 of 37 Old 04-29-2008, 12:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jesse S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, eh?
Posts: 3,503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm going to answer all your questions but the reply will be split randomly across all your threads

In the end, if 60" at 10' works for you, then do it. Put masking tape up on the wall to see what the screen size will be like. The kuro is very good image quality at the expense of size (and being very costly). Not everyone wants a huge screen, or red velvet drapes, etc.
Jesse S is offline  
post #29 of 37 Old 04-29-2008, 07:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
E-A-G-L-E-S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,721
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

I think we fundementally disagree here, because I am not that big of a fan of plasma. PQ is subjective, the amount of space in your field of view that the image takes up is not even though people have definet preferences in this area as well.

PQ is not that subjective. People have preferences, but quality is still quality.
E-A-G-L-E-S is offline  
post #30 of 37 Old 04-29-2008, 07:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
E-A-G-L-E-S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,721
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew4msu View Post

I have 2 general rule's of thumb for a home theater:

1. If 100 people see the room and they all say it's a home theater, then it is.

If some say it's a living room (or kitchen or dining room or basement or media room or entertainment area, etc.), then it's not.

2. If you were to list your home for sale, how would the Realtor describe it?

If it's listed as a home theater then it probably is. If it's listed as a living room (or bedroom or media room or bonus room, etc.), then it's not.


A home theater should be obvious.

I respectfully disagree.
I had the whole thing, and enjoy my Kuro more.
Now if I had spent ~$5/$6K on a PJ maybe I would have enjoyed that more han the Kuro....but I don't have $10K for two displays and can't just have a PJ.
E-A-G-L-E-S is offline  
Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off