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post #1 of 1060 Old 05-15-2008, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Index

Equipment List (2)
Insulation (7)
Projector (13)
Laminate flooring (19)
Riser (51)
Speakers (75)
Stage (133)
More Stage (157)
Third Row Countertop (183)
Bedroom Flooring (256)
Sconce Lights (284)
Sceen wall (290)
Bathroom (389)
Drywall that pocket door!!! (431)
Third row bar trim (442)
Screen size (463)
Carpet decision(469)
Carpet install (549)
Screen Install (555)



One of the Logan commandments:

Thou shall have a build thread

So here it is.

Note: As of this posting, I only have dial-up access so pictures will be limited and low resolution. DSL is coming but we don't know when

First the floor plan.



I am finishing the basement of a home we had built in 2003. At the time, I was not planning a full dedicated HT but had the following requirements for the builder with regards to the basement:

1. 9' ceiling
2. Zone heating system with basement on its own thermostat
3. Stub plumbing for future bath and install shower stall (much easier to get in before the walls/doors go in).
4. Install vent line for future bathroom fan so I didn't need to fish it through the entire basement width later.
5. Frame exterior walls with 2x4's (which I would later regret more later)
6. Large room (later to be designated the HT, to have no supports or dividers needed.)

The above floor plan was developed after sitting down with their architect. The stock home plan (where basement design is at best an after thought) was very choppy, was only about 50% usable, and included the bathroom on the daylight side (which is a waste of the windows in my opinion). I really tried to squeeze out as much usable space as possible. I had storage trusses put in above the garage and installed a pull down ladder so I really don't need storage space in the basement.

I ended up having to hire my own heating contractor as the builder's could not wrap his mind around a three zone (one for each floor) forced air heating system without massive heat trunks that took up the majority of the ceiling in the basement. My contractor installed an Arzel zone system that uses individual dampers for each run controlled by vacuum tubes which results in only one hot air trunk.

Now, fast-forward a year or two. The first project was to build my deck. The builder I used seemed to build pretty good homes but for some reason hired some guy in a beat up mini van to build the decks??? So I had them attach the plate to the house and leave it for me to build.



I decided to go with the full plastic Eon decking which turned out great. I put over a year into this build but that is off topic for this so I will just give the after pic and move on. I just took this picture this morning so it is in the shadow of the house. I will edit it later with an afternoon shot.



Now the winter of 06-07 comes along and I finally get the bug to start the basement.

There were a few things that I failed to monitor during the building process that slipped by until I started to put my basement plans together.

1. The air conditioning dude got lazy and ran the condenser line down under the floor joists rather than up in them across the HT room Had to have them come out and rerun $$.
2. The gas line to supply the main floor fireplace was installed as galvanized that again ran below the joists this time through my game room. Had to have them come out and install flex line to maximize the ceiling height $$.
3. The hot and cold air trunks ran down one side of the HT. Note the very top of the following picture. This pic is a little out of order as it shows the re-framed walls of the HT insulated but I will come back to that



I hung the scrap piece of carpet on the wall to judge screen size. I outlined 80, 90, and 100 inches.

I moved the cold air return to the other side of the HT and am now using 5 of the joist cavities that run across my HT as cold air returns. I did this myself so all it cost me was some time. The only issue would be that I would not be able to insulate the cavities above the HT as many are used as cold air returns and it also limited the number and placement of can lights.

I then found the framing they did of the exterior concrete walls to be lousy. Because I added this after construction had started, it was done after the home was essentially built and it was the guy in the beat up mini van again...

I ended up tearing out all of the framing in the HT and starting over.

I will being using post #2 to update progress and "To do" lists and then continue from there in individual posts.

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

Loganed 4/6/08 Logan's Hero 5/1/08

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post #2 of 1060 Old 05-15-2008, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Projector: Epson Pro Cinema 1080UB
Screen: 125" 2.35 fixed frame High contrast Cinema Vision Da-Lite sceen.

Speakers:

Monitor Audio RS6 left and right front speakers
Monitor Audio RSLCR center channel speaker
Monitor Audio RSFX surround speakers (2 sets)
Monitor Audio C280 in ceiling rear speakers
Velodyne Sub

Receiver: Yamaha RX-V863
Blue Ray: Onyko DV-BD606
Direct TV HD DVR
Yamaha I-pod dock

2 channel distribution to main floor, deck, patio and game room:
Second Receiver: Onyko TX DS676
Speaker selector/volume: Jamo JSS4-VC2

Power Conditioner
Furman Elite 15i

Lutron System Lighing

Harmony One Remote

6 Berkline 187's (now 45187's)

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

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post #3 of 1060 Old 05-15-2008, 08:29 AM
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Very nice deck and HT space, keep the pics coming. Also, got a picture of your garage storage :P i'd love to see some more ideas as I definitely need some storage, and been eyeing the garage, but had to hold off the project to get better ideas. =)

Loganed on 4/8/2008

List to be completed
Install blinds - DONE
Finish plumbing my bathroom - WIP
Build EQ Shelves - WIP
Program insteon - DONE
My Build Thread
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post #4 of 1060 Old 05-15-2008, 08:42 AM
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Very nice home RPH,

That deck turned out great. Good thing you were able to get involved with the layout of the basement. My home was new construction but already built when I found it, so I had to work with what I had. Look foward to your progress.
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post #5 of 1060 Old 05-15-2008, 09:21 AM
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Great looking space! I know what you mean about the builders not thinking about the basements. When we were looking for our current house, I can't tell you how many basements I looked at and just came away shaking my head. Even the house we bought has IT'S problems. BUT, if I was to move the mechanicals (which are right in the middle of the basement), move the rough-in bathroom to the small side of room, move the trunk lines, plumbing, etc., I'd STILL be looking at bare concrete walls. As it is, the main electric panel will be on my screen wall.

Keep up the good work!
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post #6 of 1060 Old 05-15-2008, 09:21 AM
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Great looking deck.

Based on your carpet screen mock-up, it looks like you have room to go bigger. If I may be so bold - perhaps you could consider a CIH scope setup.
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post #7 of 1060 Old 05-15-2008, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I did a fair amount of research on insulation and followed the results of a test out in Minnesota. They suggested applying extruded polystyrene directly to the concrete with glue then building the 2x4 walls inside of it. Basically, when sealed properly, it doesn't let any warm air from the space come in contact with the concrete. I have excellent drainage and sandy soil so the only exterior moisture I have to worry about is just the normal moisture in the ground.

Thanks to the crappy framing the builder's mini-van dude left me, I tore out his work in the HT and started over.

This is also when I removed the fiberglass insulation from the rim joists and noticed moisture behind the insulation. The basement is dry but just moisture from the warm air hitting the cold wall caused the condensation.

Notice the discoloration from the wet boards.



For the theater I used 1.5 inch extruded polystyrene and then built my walls.

Being that my shower stall was already installed and I didn't want to do this in the rest of the basement...

Time to bring in the big guns of insulation

After insulating and rebuilding the walls of the HT, I hired out for the closed cell spray foam insulation and man this stuff is great. He did all exterior walls except the HT which I already had the polystyrene on, the rim joist all the way around, and I had him spray an inch on the ceiling of the HT and game room to help control sound. That stuff really fills in the cracks. I didn't take many pics of this rather video so you will just have to take my word.

The stuff has a 6.5 R-value per inch and really seals up the air leaks. The inch I put on the ceiling was just a little extra sound dampening. I can't fill the joist space with insulation (as mentioned above) due to using them as cold air returns.

At some point I may download my video camera and capture some stills but I wouldn't hold your breath...

Ok... so now my cave is sealed... Stay tuned...

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

Loganed 4/6/08 Logan's Hero 5/1/08

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post #8 of 1060 Old 05-15-2008, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, just went out and mowed the entire lawn while I had 6 pictures uploading and only 5 of them were complete when I came in... Man I hate dial-up...

Anyway, I do not plan to do a great deal with sound insulation. This is a two story and all the bedrooms are 2 floors away with the kid's room on the other side of the house from the theater. I know, you can always do more and what if this and that and you want to crank it when... yea... so... I'm just not going to get crazy with sound insulation... I am all for keeping peace on the home front but I have my limits. My wife generally watches TV in the bedroom (rather than on the main floor) or in her tub as I mounted a small flat panel for her over her huge jet tub. Saw this one coming when we built the house so I had electric and cable pre-run to it.

I was planning to put a drop ceiling in from day one because I always like to add stuff later but the more and more I thought about it, I really wanted the clean look of drywall ceilings (especially in the theater). Over a period of time, I went from planning a full drop ceiling... to drywall just in the theater... to drywall everywhere... So much for the drop ceiling.

After this decision I went back and put 1.5" PVC to and from everywhere I could think of for future runs. If I had to do it again, I would have gone larger than 1.5" but they are in the walls now. Nothing in them except a piece of rope should I need to pull something later.

Runs of PVC include:
equipment closet to screen wall
equipment closet to riser (running over the room and back down)
equipment closet to outside for dish
equipment closet to utility room
equipment closet to main floor entertainment center.

The only one I didn't run was to the projector... I just couldn't get a clear path with lowering the soffits. I ran HDMI, 5 wire rca, a PC line and 2 cat5e lines to it trying to future proof it... if that is possible...

My soffits are fairly wide (38" on the sides and 33" up front) so I did add a little extra sound barrier in them.

When building the soffits, I added a layer of drywall to the top of the framing before hanging them.



This is a close up before the primary drywall was done. It shows the drywall on top of the soffit framing. If you look close, you can also see the thin layer of spray foam insulation in the joist spaces.



Not a long post as again, I wasn't going to get carried away with sound insulation.

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

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post #9 of 1060 Old 05-15-2008, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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If you look at the floor plan in the first post, you can see that you can enter the theater from the hall at the bottom of the steps or from the game room. I gave a great deal of thought to closing off the entrance at the bottom of the stairs and dry walling over it. I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

The builder just had a makeshift rail up to meet code to get a certificate of occupancy.



I decided to go with a pocket door.



I still haven't decided on what type of treatment (color or drapery covering) the door will get but the door stays.

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

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post #10 of 1060 Old 05-15-2008, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I have planned to run all of the equipment into the closet below the stairs with access to the equipment from the theater through the wall. Unfortunately there is not only a cold air return but also a 4-inch drain stack exactly where I wanted to put it. The cold air return could have been moved fairly easy but the drain stack would have been a pain.



So I had to shift it to the right where it will not be has high or as tall.



My wife and I are huge hockey fans (wing nuts if you will) and have been planning to use a jersey display case as a door to the equipment. As time has passed I believe I will be pulling the hockey theme out of the theater and applying it only to the game room. I was thinking of using a movie poster for the same purpose but now that I have read the recent thread on equipment racks and see how cool they can look even as a diy I may go that route???

Not sure at this point but the equipment is definitely going in there.

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

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post #11 of 1060 Old 05-15-2008, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastiff34 View Post

Also, got a picture of your garage storage :P i'd love to see some more ideas as I definitely need some storage, and been eyeing the garage, but had to hold off the project to get better ideas. =)

Just ran up there to snap a pick but holy cow is it trashed. It needs to be cleaned each spring as it is packed full and after putting Christmas stuff away (ie throwing it up there) you can't even see down the middle.

When building the house I had storage trusses installed. Essentially they have a 2x6 base to hold the extra weight. They also have an open middle so you can walk down the middle standing straight up with both arms stretched straight out to the sides and not touch anything.

The garage is 24x28 (I made it a little deeper so I could put a 12x7 workshop in the back of it and still park the garden tractor in with the cars)

The storage room is therefor 24x28. I threw tongue and grove OSB up there when we were building then insulated the garage ceiling (overkill) and laid the flooring. I Ran electrical so I have lights and a plug up there. Put in one of the pull down ladders and sealed off the little 2'x2' opening the builder had put in.

Put the light switch by the opening as you go up and viola... no more basement clutter.

The difference in cost when building between normal and storage trusses was around $100!!! Needless to say that $100 was well spent.

I know lots of people go back and try to utilize the space but generally they just aren't built to hold a load... MINE IS PACKED!!!

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

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post #12 of 1060 Old 05-15-2008, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlogan6797 View Post

As it is, the main electric panel will be on my screen wall.

Ouch!!! That's gunna leave a mark.

There are so many details when building I can see why some of this stuff gets missed. But man!!!

Unfortunately, it is also generally driven by cost. As I mentioned earlier, the original house design had the bathroom on the walkout side... Why??? Because it was closer to the drain field in the back yard... Less pipe = more $$$ in builders pocket. Many people will not pick up on this until they have lived there a few years and want to then finish their basement.

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

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post #13 of 1060 Old 05-15-2008, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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(soft chorus of church music slowly building till a beam of light comes down from the heavens and lights up the box)...



Epson Pro 1080UB.
Ordered just before the expiration of the $200 rebate.

Has only been out of the box once at the dealer to make sure it didn't have a convergence issue that many have complained about. The dealer ordered two and gave me my pick as the other was for his display. The first was out of speck just every so slightly (very acceptable but when you have two to chose from, why not take the best). The second was spot on.

Boxed her back up and she awaits a COMPLETED theater...

Must not re-open box... Say it with me... Must not re-open box.

Ok now onto the size thing.

I have never been one to sit near the front of the theater rather I am a middle to back type seater... That and the fact my wife can get motion sick on a drive to the mail box has me thinking smaller might not be that bad...(Did I really say that???)

Back in post 1 of this thread, I posted a picture of the screen wall with a piece of carpet hanging with 3 different size screens drawn on it. 80", 90", and 100".

Front row viewing 12.5'
Second row viewing 19.5' (was 18.5' when I was making this decision but then moved the second row back a foot for extra leg room).

I know from much of the reading in here that may would go larger.

After much consideration I was planning an 88" screen.

Then enters the throw distance.

I will be housing the projector in the small cubbie in the soffit as shown below.



The distance from the screen wall to the front of the projector is 19'7". With that throw distance I needed to go up to 92" but then realized the distance from the lens to the "center of the screen" is a little longer so the next standard size is 100... So now I am at 100...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilsiu View Post

Based on your carpet screen mock-up, it looks like you have room to go bigger. If I may be so bold - perhaps you could consider a CIH scope setup.

I did end up going bigger but I don't even fully understand CIH. 100" 16:9 ratio is where I am at now.

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

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post #14 of 1060 Old 05-16-2008, 05:43 AM
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Looks great! I am interested in the garage storage too! There was another thread that detailed rolling shelves that I liked too!

Hmmm you are loganed, I am loganed, you are farther along- I need to get my rock hung!

Keep up the great work
Jeff

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post #15 of 1060 Old 05-16-2008, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPh Drew View Post

I will be housing the projector in the small cubbie in the soffit as shown below.

I have some concerns about that. The cubbie looks tight and if you are obstructing any of the air intakes or exhausts the internal temp of your unit may exceed design specs.

Not familiar with that Projector and airflow design.
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post #16 of 1060 Old 05-16-2008, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

The cubbie looks tight and if you are obstructing any of the air intakes or exhausts the internal temp of your unit may exceed design specs.

Air in on bottom through filter. Stands allow for adequate space for intake.

Air out through front next to the lens but it channels the air at an angle away from the lens (probably so you are not pushing the air flow through the light path.

Cubbie if 20wx12hx31d. I definately wanted a front exhauster which this is so I think I will be ok.

thanks.

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post #17 of 1060 Old 05-16-2008, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPh Drew View Post

(soft chorus of church music slowly building till a beam of light comes down from the heavens and lights up the box)...



Epson Pro 1080UB.
Ordered just before the expiration of the $200 rebate.

Has only been out of the box once at the dealer to make sure it didn't have a convergence issue that many have complained about. The dealer ordered two and gave me my pick as the other was for his display. The first was out of speck just every so slightly (very acceptable but when you have two to chose from, why not take the best). The second was spot on.

I have the same projector. I love it. I bought mine from AVS a while back and had Jason check it out and calibrate it for me (money well spent IMHO). Mine is nearly %100 spot on. My only gripe is that you can notice the noice from the motor for the iris during quiet scenes. This is my first pj so they might all be like this, don't know.

I believe it vents out of the rear center if I am not mistaken. Mine is hanging from the ceiling so it never occured to me to look.

I know you have heard this before but if you put that puppy up in thet nitch to "test it out" then it's game over and Logan will beat you to the finish.

PS: I stand corrected, airflow through bottom as noted above.

The Fog Valley Cinema Build Thread.

Home Theater, Basement Entertainment Area Project Photo Archive.

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post #18 of 1060 Old 05-16-2008, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driving_Hamster View Post

I know you have heard this before but if you put that puppy up in the niche to "test it out" then it's game over and Logan will beat you to the finish.

I think many of use are beyond help in following this simple strategy However I think there is an even more powerful strategy.

Forbid yourself from buying the second bulb until you finish the room. You will be an addict by that time and going cold turkey will make your life miserable.

Don't follow my example. Third bulb loaded in the cannon and room still not done.
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post #19 of 1060 Old 05-16-2008, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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The Laminate Flooring is in!!!

Before....................



And after...







I am thinking about using the same boards to treat the sides of my riser.

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

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post #20 of 1060 Old 05-16-2008, 01:13 PM
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Looks good! Laminate has an instant WOW factor! Gotta love it

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post #21 of 1060 Old 05-16-2008, 01:31 PM
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Quote:


Quote:


Originally Posted by tlogan6797
As it is, the main electric panel will be on my screen wall.

Ouch!!! That's gunna leave a mark.

It's not really as bas as it sounds. I really just mean that it will be on the front wall. It's to the far right corner. I'm expecting that it will be coverd by the false front of the screen wall.

Laminate floor looks great....gives me confidence to do mine (when I get around to it, of course).

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An as-yet un-named theater designed by Big-WarrenP-BritInVA
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post #22 of 1060 Old 05-17-2008, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPh Drew View Post

I did end up going bigger but I don't even fully understand CIH. 100" 16:9 ratio is where I am at now.

From what I've read on here, the CIH refers to constant image height (i.e., a 2.35:1 screen using an anamorphic lens). According to this review, CIH may be a no go for your projector, but that review does give it really high marks. I've been looking at the Panny AE2000U, but the reviewer points out that the Epson looks better! Thanks for complicating my decision....

The build is looking great though - congrats on meeting the logan challenge. I guess it's my turn... fortunately I have a small room!
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post #23 of 1060 Old 05-18-2008, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by cheapmonkey View Post

(i.e., a 2.35:1 screen using an anamorphic lens).


you don't need a lens you can zoom too!

If I had it to do all over again, I'd still hit that shot.
Ht Build

Poker table and bar
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post #24 of 1060 Old 05-19-2008, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok the Berkliners are coming tomorrow and I just had a thought. They will deliver in boxes then open up and set up.... What if I have them leave them in the boxes??? Maybe open one up just so I know how to put it together. I would assume you normally check them over at delivery to make sure there are no defects but what is the likelyhood of issues???

Can't sit in them if they are still in the box...

Also can't spill something on or set a tool on and tear...

hmmmmmmmmmmm

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

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post #25 of 1060 Old 05-19-2008, 08:57 PM
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I had the delivery guys leave my Berk's in my garage since my theater was not ready for them at that point. When they took them out of the boxes they were in grey fabric like bags. The top is seperate from the bottom and is as simple as sliding one on top of the other to put them together. The bottoms can be a bit heavy (depending on if you have power, buttkickers, etc) but my wife and I easily carried a couple of them down into the basement to "try a couple out" .

Good looking floor by the way. Strong work.

The Fog Valley Cinema Build Thread.

Home Theater, Basement Entertainment Area Project Photo Archive.

Todays Tip: Nothing good has ever come from the phrase "Here, hold my beer while I try this."
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post #26 of 1060 Old 05-19-2008, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driving_Hamster View Post

The top is seperate from the bottom and is as simple as sliding one on top of the other to put them together.

That is what I wanted to hear. I think I am going to have them leave all of them in the box. I have room in the middle of the game room (with the finished floor) so I don't have to carry them down later. I have a walk-out basement so I hope the boxes with fit through the slider.

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

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post #27 of 1060 Old 05-20-2008, 06:55 AM
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From what I understand the boxes aren't big at all and since the top and bottom come seperated they supposedly fit through a 28" door if I remember correctly.

What's the dricore on the floor above for?
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post #28 of 1060 Old 05-20-2008, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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What's the dricore on the floor above for?

Wet bar. I am using kitchen cabinets and this keeps the cabinets off the concrete. Neighbor did this and I thought it was a good idea to keep any moisture from wicking into the cabinets...

Overkill???

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

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post #29 of 1060 Old 05-20-2008, 07:08 AM
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No way, Good move. Nothing worse than seeing nice cabinets bubbling up at the bottom, and turning a funky brown color.

Just wasn't sure if the dricore was sitting on top of the floor or if laminate went around it. Now I see.
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post #30 of 1060 Old 05-27-2008, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, now I could use some opinions... In the first post of this thread I posted a picture of the floor plan. I have a 9' opening between my game room and theater. Here is the pic that looks from the game room into the back of the theater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPh Drew View Post

T

I did not want to close off this opening with a door as I like the open feel it provides and gives a better flow for entertaining while watching sports (huge hockey fans!!!!)

I have been planning to use heavy curtains but really not sure what I want to do.

Goals:

1. Maintain open feel 80% of the time as most viewing will be more casual (sports rather than movies) but still have the option to close it down when I want the bat cave to watch a movie in.

2. I like the fact that when sitting in the second row in the theater, I can see into the game room and still be a part of that environment when entertainment is casual therefor do not want 2-3' of bunched up curtains on the side furthest from the windows blocking that view.

3. Obviously this is a compromise in acoustics as any opening like this is going to leak if covered by curtains but something that closes it up a bit.

I have considered building a box against the window side that the curtains would open into but feel this might "close up" the opening.

.... wait just had a thought... what if I could find a curtain that would roll up and down like a screen??? I didn't plan electrical for that but wonder if it might be possible??? I have pretty good ceiling height and the span is a huge header that supports the entire house so weight would not be an issue.

What about Japanese style sliding doors that are covered in some type of dark material. 3' perminate on the window side and 2 other 3' panels that would slide. Unfortunately they can't slide all the way to the left (in the pic above) as it would cover my electrical switches.

???

Thoughts???

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

Loganed 4/6/08 Logan's Hero 5/1/08

RPh Drew's INDEXED Thread - Logan's Hero... for now...

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