Uber-Lurker HT 2.0 Build - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 07-21-2008, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been Âlurking in AVS Forums for over 6 years, learning a tremendous amount, so I thought itÂ's time I gave back. Hopefully this post will be of some benefit.

As background, this is my second home theater build. My first was a semi-dedicated theater (Panasonic 711xu LCD projector, Paradigm 5.1 speakers, Dalite 120Â pulldown, etc). The things I learned in HT 1.0 that I hope to apply in 2.0:
  • Sound Proof!!! I cannot say enough the importance of sound proofing. I had no soundproofing in my first theater and it was a big problem for me and my family. At full crank anyone in the family room would think they were in an earthquake. Late night movies had to be on low or family members (ie, wife) two floors up would complain.
  • Hush box. The Panasonic 711 was a relatively quiet projector, but it you could definitely hear it during the quiet part of a movie. Also, I could never run it at full brightness due to noise.
  • Future Proof. I had a drop ceiling in HT 1.0 and ran new cables from time to time. HT 2.0 will have drywall ceilings, so I am future proofing with conduit as much as possible.
  • Get "Muscle Help. Although my wife and contractor think I need "psychological help" given the extent of my HT plans, what I mean by this is that I went it alone on HT 1.0 and it took months/years to finish. HT 2.0 is part of a broader 1500 sq ft basement finishing project that is mainly to give my wife and I studio/office space for a home business, so I hired a contractor to get the basement done in weeks versus months/years.
  • Get ÂBrains Help. In reading thousands upon thousands of post here (why don't they record post read in addition to post written? ), I know enough to know I donÂ't know enough. So, I hired bpape (Bryan Pape) to help with the acoustic set up. Bryan is a great guy and has forgotten more about HT builds than I will ever know.


Uber-Lurker HT 2.0 Overview
  • Basement/Total Light Control
  • Dimensions: 20 x 16 x 8.5 (three sides concrete)
  • Dedicated Movie/TV viewing and Gaming
    • Blue Ray, HD DVD, DVD
    • HD/SD Satellite Ã* HD/SD Cable
    • Gaming (PS3, 360)
  • 1.78:1 Fixed Screen
  • 7.1 or 7.2 Surround Sound
  • Seating
    • 2 rows of 4 (rear on riser)
    • High back (IÂ'm 6Â'4Â)
  • Lighting
    • 4 sconces (no recessed)
    • Rope Lights in soffit and riser steps
    • Limited scene control
  • Sound Deadening
    • RSIC-1 clips on ceiling/soffit & 1x2 furring on walls
    • R19 and Rock Wool insulation
    • Double 5/8Â Drywall with Green Glue
    • MDF Boxed outlets and HVAC


Equipment Specifics

Existing
  • Speakers (all Paradigm)
    • Fronts: Titan v2
    • Center: CC-170 v2
    • Surrounds: ADP-170 v2
    • Sub: PDR-12
  • Reciever
    • Pioneer VSX-45TX
    • Hard to believe this is already "long in the tooth". Need HDMI switching...
  • HD Sources
    • PS3, 360, Dish Network (going to cable)
Need
  • Projector (LCOS or LCD)
    • JVC HD100, Epson 1080UB
  • Screen
    • 120Â plus (looking at 126Â Carada BWÂ- 1.4 gain)
  • Receiver
    • ~ 100 watts x 7, 4x HMDI 1.3 connections
    • Brands - Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo, Sony
    • Models - TBD
  • Speakers
    • Front (Used Phantoms or Titans)
    • Rear (Move Titans to rear)
    • Larger Sub to replace or add to existing
      • HSU VTF-3
  • Lighting Control
    • Looking at Insteon to control Sconces and Rope Light

That's it for the background (sorry if I put you to sleep...). I'll post work in progress pictures shortly...

Java
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post #2 of 9 Old 07-21-2008, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are rough plans for the HT.




Here are some "Before" pictures. Again, the HT is part of a broader finishing of our basement.

Load Bearing Wall

One of my biggest challenges was what to do with a load bearing wall.




A close up of the wall



Replaced with 12" laminate beam and joist hangers. This also included rerouting of Plumbing, Gas, and HVAC lines that ran through the joist above the wall.

Note, the joist are ~9", so the ceiling needed to be brought down 3" to clear the beam. The framing crew was going to add two layers of 2x4 "furring", but I stopped them so I could add the final layer of "furring" with the RSIC/Hat Channels.


Existing Framing

The bulk of the wall framing was already done when the house was built so it wasn't feasible to "rebuild" the wall and decouple them. I chose instead to use existing walls (which are against concrete) and use 1x2 furring.



Rear Wall

The rear wall is a stagger stud wall.


Soffits

To contain the numerous plumbing and HVAC while maximizing ceiling hight, we added soffit around the HT wall, except the screen wall. Ideally, I would have liked to build the soffits after the shell of the room was built but that was not feasible with all the mechanical lines. The soffits are 1' high and 2' wide.



That's all for now. I'll post RSIC/Furring pictures, drywall, etc photo's later...
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post #3 of 9 Old 07-21-2008, 06:52 PM
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You've got a great project ahead of you! Here's a couple of my opinions: I have an Onkyo 705 and I love it! for the price, it can't be beat. But I do have Klipsch speakers and I have heard that those brands work well with each other. The 705 also has three HDMI-in ports, more than any other I could find for the price. When I do HT 2.0 however, I will probably upgrade to a Denon.

Second point: In HT 2.0, I will have 2 HSU VTF-3's. I have one now I have demoed one versus two and, for twice the price, two is FAR better than one. (I also demoed 4 VTF-3's, yowsa!) If you can't do 2 3.3's, I would go with 2 2.3's because they sounded better than one 3.3.

Just an opinion.
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post #4 of 9 Old 07-21-2008, 07:49 PM
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man the floors look clean enough to eat off of

Scott

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post #5 of 9 Old 07-21-2008, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raizer View Post

You've got a great project ahead of you! Here's a couple of my opinions: I have an Onkyo 705 and I love it! for the price, it can't be beat. But I do have Klipsch speakers and I have heard that those brands work well with each other. The 705 also has three HDMI-in ports, more than any other I could find for the price. When I do HT 2.0 however, I will probably upgrade to a Denon.

Thanks, Raizer. I'm very interested in Onkyo. Seems like it has huge bang for buck. Specifically, they have the best connections in their price range by a long shot. I'm interested in their new 606 receiver. It has 4x HMDI 1.3a connections and even analog upconversion to 1080i. I'm curious why they stopped at 1080i vs 1080p. My concern would be the projector having to make another conversion (i to p) vs taking in the signal natively. I'm hoping Onko comes out quickly with higher versions of their new models (ie, 706, 806). See below review...

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/avreceivers/608onk606/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raizer View Post

Second point: In HT 2.0, I will have 2 HSU VTF-3's. I have one now I have demoed one versus two and, for twice the price, two is FAR better than one. (I also demoed 4 VTF-3's, yowsa!) If you can't do 2 3.3's, I would go with 2 2.3's because they sounded better than one 3.3.

Just an opinion.

SWEET!!! What size room do you have? My HT will be ~2700, which HSU rates on the high end of a mid-sized from (Loudness Level 2). They rate a single 3.3 for a large room (Loudness Level 4). Would two 3.3 or 2.3's overpower my room?

Also, can you "mix and match" subs? I have an existing Paradigm PDR12 and was wondering if I could use it with a 3.3.

Last, have you explore HSU's new bookshelves (HB-1.2)? Again, I have an existing 5.1 Paradigm setup that I need to expand to 7.1/2. In addition to looking at the HSU 3.3 sub, I'm looking to add a little more horsepower up front with some larger used Paradigms (Phantom, Monitor). The extra horses on the fronts may lead me to upgrade the center (CC170). Depending on how the wind blows on Ebay, that may not be too bad or I may be better off just upgrading the whole thing. For $900 over the 3.3, I could upgrade to an all HSU 7.1 setup. Thoughts?

Thanks, much
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post #6 of 9 Old 07-21-2008, 11:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W00lly View Post

man the floors look clean enough to eat off of

He-he. That was a small window of cleanliness.

We had the basement packed with "stuff" and cleaned it bare for the construction. Also, the framing crew was incredible in their clean up. Now that with drywall construction it is quite a mess.
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post #7 of 9 Old 07-22-2008, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Now the fun begins...

HVAC Sound Proofing

When I first started working with bpape on sound proofing, one of his biggest concerns was the HVAC lines. The original layout of the HVAC supply lines was in the middle of the ceiling joists. This would punch big holes in the "aquarium" I was building to contain the sound.

Original HVAC Supply Line


To mitigate the problem, I moved the supply lines into soffits and built 8' "coffins" out of 3/4 MDF boards. Bpape wanted me to encase the entire HVAC run and get 3+ 90 degreen hits. Given the flex duct snakes through the soffit and other lines, encasing the entire run wasn't feasible, so I encased the first 8 feet. Note, don't try this alone. I tried to get the beast up in the soffit by myself and end up dropping it. I got help, but it took all three of us to get it in the soffit.






RSIC Clips, Furring and insulation

As mentioned, I used RSIC-1 clips on the ceiling and 1x2 furring on the walls. I should mention that the layout of the clips with the additional 2x4 "furring" on the ceiling (perp to the joist) through me and the crew for a bit of a loop. We eventually figured it out (with bpape's help)...

Clips, Channels, and Furring


For HT insulation, I used R19 in the wall and a combination of R19 and Rock Wool (ThermaFiber SAFB) in the ceiling. Since the joist cavity is 9", I used a R19 @ 6" + Rock Wool @ 3". I also put an extra layer of both in the soffits.

An interesting note, I got a bit carried away with the insulation in the rest of the basement. I have hard wood floors above the basement and I wanted a little bit of sound cushion from the galloping herd (ie, kids) above. Well, I didn't stop there... Given this will also be work space, I decided to go ahead and do all the walls too. Before the sheet rock went up it was like a tomb down there with the insulation completely soaking up any sound upstairs or down...

Insulation Insanity


Outlet Boxes and Conduit

On bpape's advice, I also sealed the outlet and scones (no recessed lights) for sound control with 3/4 MDF boxes.

On speaker cables, I'm not ready yet on equipment and wiring, so I put conduit around the room. I will pull cable through and caulk at a later date...



Hush Box

I posted some info on my hush box connections, so if you want more detail see this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1048290



Hush Box connections



All Closed Up


The sheet rocking when very well. The crew did the entire basement (1500 sq ft) in one long day. They used 4'x12' sheets, so there will be less seams and also glued/screwed all "basic" (ie, not green glued) walls. This was the first time for the contractor and drywall sub on using green glue. They did a great job...

Looking toward screen wall


Left front wall with support column


Rear wall


Rear wall and door


Future "Lobby" (Frig/cabinet to the left)


That's it for now... The sanding is done. Prime, Paint and Trim will be done this week...
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post #8 of 9 Old 07-23-2008, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post

Thanks, Raizer. I'm very interested in Onkyo. Seems like it has huge bang for buck. Specifically, they have the best connections in their price range by a long shot. I'm interested in their new 606 receiver. It has 4x HMDI 1.3a connections and even analog upconversion to 1080i. I'm curious why they stopped at 1080i vs 1080p. My concern would be the projector having to make another conversion (i to p) vs taking in the signal natively. I'm hoping Onko comes out quickly with higher versions of their new models (ie, 706, 806). See below review...

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/avreceivers/608onk606/

As update, Raizer, did you see the info on the new 806 and 706? Very nice!!!

http://www.itechnews.net/2008/07/22/...ter-receivers/
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post #9 of 9 Old 07-09-2009, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the long delay in updating.

We actually finished the basement last year, but I put the stops on finishing the theater due to cash flow (where's my stimulus package??). I finished the "shell" of the theater, but held off finishing until I got my "2.0 Equipment". I don't feel right finishing the theater with the old "1.0" gear, but the family has been bugging me to finish it out so I guess I call this a "1.5 Upgrade".

Here are the latest pictures of the finished "lobby" and theater:


"Lobby" look toward the Theater door.


"Lobby" look from the Theater door.


"Lobby" look from entry.


Screen wall view of theater


Rear wall of theater (sorry for bad panoramic).

As note, I'll repaint all the trim and outlet/switch covers the same color as the door (dark gray).

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