Alright, you've fooled around long enough...go build something! - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 419 Old 02-26-2010, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I can finally cross one of my ongoing tweaks off of my list. I finished my DIY subs and snapped a few pics along the way. Recall, I lost my pre paint build pics in early January.

The sub is the DIY P7S-650 sealed sub from Elemental Designs (eD). The P7S-650 is the eD A7S-650 dual sub split apart to house each driver in its own cabinet, with one cabinet holding the LT/1300 amp that powers both units. Each box measures approximately 18.5x18.5x23.5 (HxWxD). I choose this style to get the spec'd performance of the A7S-650 in a package more fitting of my space. The P7S is still a beast, but splitting up its weight made it a bit easier to maneuver into position without destroying my stage, false wall, screen and more importantly, my body.

On to the pics

Here are the boxes as they dried after two coats of Mickey Mouse Ears black in satin. My wife added a third coat later.




Here is the driver - the eD 13Av.2. A very impressive piece of equipment


Here is the amp - the eD LT/1300. I had to wait quite a while for this so it didn't stay in the box very long once I got it.

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.

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post #362 of 419 Old 02-26-2010, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is my miniature eD production room. In full appreciation of the weight of the individual pieces, I decided to build as close to the final position as possible.








Since there is no large opening on the back of the box without the amp, I connected the sub wiring and passed it through the terminal opening before attaching the driver. Dropping in a 60lb sub is not for the faint-of-heart. After lining up the eD logo on the driver with the bottom of the box and centering the driver in the box opening as close to the edge as possible, I let er rip anddropped the driver into place. With a mighty THUNK!, it landed in position. A few pilot holes and a handful of screws later, I had this:


One down and one to go:





After dropping in the other driver, wiring the amp was relatively easy


Lots of room to work in here

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.

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post #363 of 419 Old 02-26-2010, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Another round of pilot holes and another handful of screws on the back side yield this:


From the front







On to the QC and testing area. A length of speaker wire to connect the units, the power cord for the amp and an Ipod for some bassBOOM, BOOM, THUMPBOOM, BOOMTHUMPBOOM, BOOM, THUMPBOOM, BOOMTHUMP!


Welp? Out with the old, in with the new


Here are the subs behind my false wall


Here is a slightly better pic showing the front sound stage through the screen






Not the best pics - I know. But, at least I didn't delete them from the memory card this time!

The P7S-650 sounds good to me so far, but I just picked up a Radio Shack SPL meter to try to get the best sound I can.

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.

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post #364 of 419 Old 02-26-2010, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Another AVS member rendered this in 1080p for us:


Its like a cherry on a sundae - this just floors the non-enthusiast crowd during a demo. Who am I kidding, I'm an enthusiast and I dig it every time I queue it up. I'm running it from the PS3 because I haven't figured out how to get it to play smoothly on the Oppo, yet.

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.

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post #365 of 419 Old 02-26-2010, 11:58 AM
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Damn! Nice subs!

Ernie
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post #366 of 419 Old 02-26-2010, 12:09 PM
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Well done, Kjlewie! Your theater has always impressed me, and I'm glad I got to see it in person.

Beautiful work on the subwoofers!


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post #367 of 419 Old 02-26-2010, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I'm looking forward to playing around with the SPL meter and eventually dialing everything in.

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.

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post #368 of 419 Old 02-26-2010, 12:51 PM
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That is a sweet pair of subs there Kj.

I didn't know one could play the fox logo from the PS3. I started messing around with it but was nowhere near ready for it, I should check it out again at this point.

Congrats on the subs, time to enjoy a good movies with some nice LFE.


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post #369 of 419 Old 02-26-2010, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks oman - the fox logo plays great from the PS3. I copied it to the hard drive and its ready and waiting. On the Oppo, I tried the logo from my flash drive and a CD, but it didn't play smoothly.

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.

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post #370 of 419 Old 02-26-2010, 06:16 PM
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Sorry I couldn't figure out how to fix that for the Oppo. If you wanted to lend me your Oppo for a year or so, I could probably figure it out for you. Those subs are looking good and I bet they sound great.

My build thread:

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post #371 of 419 Old 02-27-2010, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I recall you said the render process took a very long time...but a whole year. Actually, my son likes having the PS3 in the ht on a more regular basis.

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.

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post #372 of 419 Old 02-28-2010, 06:02 AM
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Subs look good KJ. How do they sound compared to teh old setup? I bet it is like night and day

If I had it to do all over again, I'd still hit that shot.

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post #373 of 419 Old 02-28-2010, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjlewie View Post

BOOM, BOOM, THUMPBOOM, BOOMTHUMPBOOM, BOOM, THUMPBOOM, BOOMTHUMP!

"It's only Rock n Roll... But I like it".....

Great lookin subs KJ..

Brad


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post #374 of 419 Old 03-01-2010, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffC View Post

Subs look good KJ. How do they sound compared to teh old setup? I bet it is like night and day

Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

"It's only Rock n Roll... But I like it".....

Great lookin subs KJ..

Brad

Thanks guys. Even though I have yet to use my SPL meter and REW to 'see' how things sound, the subs sound much better than my previous set up. Much more power and depth without strain. Combined with the 2 infinity subs in the rear, I don't notice any obvious nulls as I move around the room. But, until I do a bit more reading and perhaps equalize the room, things may be a bit boomy!

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.

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post #375 of 419 Old 03-17-2010, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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While researching subwoofer equalization, I’ve spent a lot of the last couple of weeks in the sub forums here and over at the ‘shack. With my SPL meter, REW and my laptop I’ve measured the subs in dozens of positions. After repositioning and measuring the P7S in every combination I could think of behind the proscenium, REW showed that my first position was the best.


REW also indicated that the infinity subs (rated down to about 25hz or so) were hurting the FR below 20hz. So, I moved them. The 49hz peak was still there, of course. So, I ordered the Anti Mode 8033 to EQ it. I played around with it last night and got this:


I readjusted the overall level of the mains in the AVR. I'm going to listen for awhile to see how things sound overtime. But, as of now, the sound is so much better, more impactful without booming. I'm very pleasantly surprised at the different bass notes of explosions I've heard many times that used to just go boom - time to rewatch some of the library. This is what I expected the P7S to sound like when I built it.

If I decide to move things around again, I'll give the position next to the 1st row a go.

Kind of funny that, after all of that repositioning, the subs ended back near their original position.

I have a thread in the AVS sub section here and at the ‘shack with more details. Thanks to all who provided advice and feedback to those threads. A big thanks to those guys, including those responsible for REW - a very useful tool.

Measuring, finding a good spot, EQing the peak and matching the volume with the mains has made a huge improvement in bass quality. Time to research house curves and wider area equalization or just watch movies.

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.

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post #376 of 419 Old 03-17-2010, 01:57 PM
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Good stuff KJ!


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post #377 of 419 Old 03-17-2010, 02:39 PM
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KJ,

Would you consider coming over and showing me how you do this sometime? I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to improve my bass response in my room.

My build thread:

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post #378 of 419 Old 03-17-2010, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Guam - sure thing. I have all the bits & pieces and REW is a free download. It already sounds pretty good in the Maple Street to me, but REW showed me things not easily heard. Send me a PM and we'll get together.

At the request of one of the sub forums members, here is a FR graph out to 500hz with 1/3 octave smoothing. It is supposed to tell you about how the phase is set and how the subs cross with the mains. I need to do a bit more reading before making that interpretation. My novice eyes only tell me that the sub is running wonderfully flat from 80hz down and perhaps a bit hot to the mains. But, with that wicked peak flattened by the antimode, it sounds good.


Here is the waterfall of the same measurement. Its not clear to me what the extended 'ripples' near 48hz signify, but I'm just digging the copious amounts of clean bass

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.

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post #379 of 419 Old 03-18-2010, 05:35 AM
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Michael (Cathan) has been fooling around with REW to tune his massive IB subs. I guess I need to start reading up on this stuff too. I don't fully understand all that the graphs are telling me, but I'm too anal not to try to squeeze every bit of response from the room that I can, assuming that I finish, of course.

CJ

Follow my build here:
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post #380 of 419 Old 03-18-2010, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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My thoughts exactly. Even with a partly treated room, the notion that I may be sitting on top of potentially better performance makes me want to at least take a look at REW and go from there.

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.

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post #381 of 419 Old 09-25-2010, 12:08 PM
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KJ,

Any impressions you can share since you have now had some time to enjoy your theater?

Brad


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post #382 of 419 Old 09-27-2010, 11:15 PM
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I confess I did not read every single page of this truly awe-inspiring project, but I focused on areas close to your speaker install and completion of the new subs, and can't find mention of the success of your soundproofing efforts? Are you able to crank up movies to near scary levels without disturbing your kids I believe you mentioned are nearby? I have made myself a list of ideas I was going to use for soundproofing and it almost exactly matches what you have done.

Your room dimensions look to be almost exactly what I plan to seek out in our next house purchase as well, and your design is so incredibly amazing I think it has given me more inspiration than any I have seen before. Great job!
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post #383 of 419 Old 09-29-2010, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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BRAD S and pim69,

Thanks for resurrecting my thread. We have been enjoying the HT immensely. Not much activity other than a couple of months ago I did give in to the temptation to "tweek" my screen. I decided to change the "top hinged" screen to a "side hinged" screen. I'll post a pic or two when I'm back in town.

As far as impressions:
- Ted White is the man
- The room sounds fantastic
- We achieved our sound isolation goals
- The picture is gorgeous
- The theater seating is better than I expected and sight lines are spot on
- I have virtually no desire to go out to the movies
- The auxiliary I/O ports make me feel smart whenever the kids shuffle the PS3 or Wii around
- We really like the room lighting, but if/when I do it again, I'll give more thought to personal seat lighting for eating
- My remote works fine, but next time I want something reasonably affordable and simple to program that offers true one button control for activities including lighting

I continue to be most impressed with the effectiveness of our sound isolation and sound treatment efforts. I thank Ted White for his advice and the soundproofingcompany.com website.
From inside the HT with the sound muted:
- I cannot hear the phone ring (a very good thing); must bring in cordless
- I cannot hear my kids walking in the rooms above
- I can hear the sump pump, but it is not intrusive at all
- I can barely hear the furnace

From outside the HT at our listening volume of -14dB:
- I cannot hear the HT from the kid's rooms above
- At about -9dB (which is loud, not ear splitting, but loud), I can hear muffled sound and feel some of the deep bass in the kid's rooms
- At our listening volume we can't hear the HT from anywhere else in the house - we had very high expectations for our sound isolation plan and we are very satisfied.

The reactions of our guests have been equally satisfying. The anecdotes are too numerous to list but I'll include a few:

- While my dad was in town for a visit, I popped in Avatar for everyone. After 30 minutes or so, he and I went upstairs for a drink. He commented, I guess the kids turned the volume down. I don't think so, the kids like it like that, I said. Well then, why can't I hear it? Back down stairs, pop open the HT door and the look on his face was priceless. Wow, tell me again how you built this room.

- A friend stopped by to see the eD subs I'd built. Why don't you have them crankingI figured I would hear them from the driveway. They are on, I've been breaking them in with Bob Marley all afternoon. Down to the HT, pop open the door and BOOM. He's been building his own HT since then and bought the eD subs from me.

- We had a dinner/movie night with 3 couples. We were watching Wolfman (not a very good movie). During one scene, water trickles along a wall of rock and falls into a puddle. My neighbor turns to his wife and says, Did you hear that? That water sounds real.

Good times.

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.

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post #384 of 419 Old 09-30-2010, 06:10 AM
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It's great to hear how effective the sound isolation has been, that is a big priority for me as well. What you describe is beyond what I thought possible, that is very encouraging. I only hope when I do this I can duplicate such impressive results. Thanks for the website, their services sound very useful.

I'm a bit surprised that the harmony remote was not enough for your needs, is it because the lights don't use IR, but RF instead? I have a harmony one and love that I can teach it any IR commands, but I am guessing you can't "teach" the RF commands the same way?

I'm also shocked at how effective the sound isolation was with your HVAC vents. I would have thought at least SOME sound would travel to the rest of the house. Are these vents dedicated only to the HT?
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post #385 of 419 Old 09-30-2010, 07:21 AM
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Awesome! I look foward to having some of these same experiences considering that I've pretty much modeled my HT after yours. Your thread has been like an instructional video that I am following step by step. Extremely well documented! Couple of questions: I am starting my riser build. I too will have Berkline 13175's. I am using the riser height calculator, can you tell me what the eye level height while sitting is? My family is pretty tall., myself 6'2, wife 5'8, daughter 5'6 if That makes any difference. Also, did you ever treat the reflection points in your HT with panels?

Thanks for your help and I want to second that Ted White is "The Man"!!!
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post #386 of 419 Old 10-01-2010, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pim69 View Post

It's great to hear how effective the sound isolation has been, that is a big priority for me as well. What you describe is beyond what I thought possible, that is very encouraging. I only hope when I do this I can duplicate such impressive results. Thanks for the website, their services sound very useful.

I'm a bit surprised that the harmony remote was not enough for your needs, is it because the lights don't use IR, but RF instead? I have a harmony one and love that I can teach it any IR commands, but I am guessing you can't "teach" the RF commands the same way?

I'm also shocked at how effective the sound isolation was with your HVAC vents. I would have thought at least SOME sound would travel to the rest of the house. Are these vents dedicated only to the HT?

I have the Harmony 900. The lights do use IR. But, I can't program the remote to dim the lights when I press play or raise the lights when I press pause/stop. I have to select DEVICES, select LIGHTING, then select lower/raise ALL LIGHTS or one of my custom scenes. I knew this going in because of a well documented thread here about Harmony removing macros on the 900. But, I didn't think it would be a big deal and I guess it really isn't since I can still control the lights from my seat. When I do this again though, I'll spend more time looking for a true one-touch remote. I don't know that I'll pay a whole lot for it, but I'll do a better job researching.

The vents are not dedicated only to the HT. I removed the original metal ducts from the supply lines to the HT and the bedrooms above and I added a return. The HT supply and return vents are all flex duct with at least 3 90 degree turns. The supplies for the bedrooms and HT are in different joist with insulation, acoustic caulk, DD & GG, the return box is lined with linacoustic. There are a few pics earlier in the thread. At our listening volume you don't get any sound travel. Now, the extent of my testing has been to place an ear to the vents in the kid's bedrooms above. At -19dB I don't hear anything. At -9dB, I hear muffled sounds and can feel the bass. But, again, -9 is pretty loud and quite a bit louder than we listen. Also, Big pointed out the flex duct I used can be improved on with true acoustical flex duct.

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.

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post #387 of 419 Old 10-01-2010, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcizzll View Post

Awesome! I look foward to having some of these same experiences considering that I've pretty much modeled my HT after yours. Your thread has been like an instructional video that I am following step by step. Extremely well documented! Couple of questions: I am starting my riser build. I too will have Berkline 13175's. I am using the riser height calculator, can you tell me what the eye level height while sitting is? My family is pretty tall., myself 6'2, wife 5'8, daughter 5'6 if That makes any difference. Also, did you ever treat the reflection points in your HT with panels?

Thanks for your help and I want to second that Ted White is "The Man"!!!

Thanks. I believe the eye level height I used for my riser is 41 for the 2nd row and a top of head height of 44 for the 1st row. If the HT is full and my daughter ends up in the back row, she will complain about not being able to see the bottom of the screen. Of course, she reclines to a near horizontal position. I was tempted to raise the screen a couple of inches when I changed the hinge position, but my wife pointed out that my daughter is only 11 and still growing. I think she just likes the money seat up front with Dad - which is fine by me.

I did take a shot at a DIY acoustic panel at the reflection point opposite the entry door. With the narrow width of our room, the panel felt intrusive and I just didn't like the look so I never attached it to the wall. I really like what TKNice did for panels in his space, but I just haven't felt the need to do anything yet.

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.

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post #388 of 419 Old 10-01-2010, 08:19 AM
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KJ, you can still teach the 900 what you want to do. I have an 1100 and sequences were also removed from the software for this unit. I have successfully taught the 1100 the play lights off, pause dim, etc. commands. This technique is what was done before the Harmony line actually came out with sequences. So fear not is here is a how to and hoperfully you can make it work.

Copied for the remote thread that I posted it on, same applies to the 900:

Programming the multi commands into the 1100 is pretty simple, really as simple as teaching the remote a command that is not in the database. The only difference before learning the command is to hit custom on the bottom right and this will bring you into the RAW mode which gives you a better chance of success.

If your previous remote is programmed with the commands you want i.e. play lights off or pause and raise, it is a matter of teaching the 1100 that button press. You name it accordingly "Play lights Off" in the area that says "My New Command" hit learn and point the original remote at the bottom of the 1100. If it picks it up it will say Key Detected.

If you don't have a previous remote with the sequence command programmed already it is as simple as having the original remote for each device i.e. DVD player and Light remote, following the same procedure and when you hit learn and asks for you to teach the new command just quickly tap play on the dvd remote and lights off on the light remote consecutively and it will learn the functions as one command.

This is the way it was done when Harmony didn't do sequences


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post #389 of 419 Old 10-01-2010, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey oman,

I'm headed over to your thread to check out your progess on the rebuild.

Thanks for the information. I'll give it a try. We're having an Iron Man 2 viewing tonight and it would be neat to add that functionality before then.

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.

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post #390 of 419 Old 10-01-2010, 08:35 AM
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Eh, ah, oh boy!! Not much to look at . Made most repairs to the HT and the front row is back in action. Sheet rock is replaced in the rest of the basement and compounded but still need to sand.

I found proof positive that others have been able to make the macros work for the 900. So be fast with the button presses and good luck.

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin...ight=900|macro


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