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post #1 of 48 Old 01-03-2009, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I am starting my bonus room-to-home theater conversion project. I have taken some initial measurements and developed a plan. The project will include the following steps:

1) Remove existing ceiling fan/light
2) Install 8 can/recessed lighting fixtures (on three independent dimmer switches)
3) Wire the room for surround sound speakers
4) Install electrical outlet for ceiling mounted projector
5) Ceiling mount the projector
6) Install 100" high gain screen
7) Install roman blackout shades for light control

Equipment List

Existing
Projector - Optoma HD65
Receiver - Kenwood VR-407
DVR - Comcast Cisco RNG200
Center speaker - Yamaha cheapo
Front speakers - Sharper image cheapos

To be purchased
HDMI cable - 23AWG (25 ft)
Speaker wire - 14AWG - 4 conductor (for bi-wire capability) (200 ft)
AV wall plates (8)
Electrical outlet and wall plate (1)
87" high gain screen - TBD

Attached is a preliminary dimensional sketch of the bonus room I will be converting. It is upstairs, above the master bedroom. The room is approximately 14ftx16ft. The room has an 8ft ceiling but on the east side of the room there is a sloped ceiling that runs to 4ft knee wall. The available wall space for the screen is 93in. (see top of attached plan), so I will get an 100in. screen (measured diagonally) with 2in. frame. I will outline the proposed screen size on the wall with painter's tape and post some pics of the room in my next post.



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post #2 of 48 Old 01-03-2009, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are some pics of the room with descriptions.



I put up an outline of the screen. The painters tape is 2" in width so it is representative of the probable screen frame. My plan is to have the screen inside the width of the flat 8' ceiling, but the only problem is that I will be pretty close to the edge of the wall on the left side. My plan is to have the leftmost edge of the screen 2" in from the edge of the wall. Do you think the frame is too close to the wall edge on the left side?



This is pic is looking back at the seating area. That window will be covered with a roman shade that will be hidden up in the green window treatment.



Another view of proposed screen.



View from other side of room that shows sloped ceiling I have to deal with.



Proposed A/V rack area.



Point of view shot from back row of seating.



This gives some reference of the screen size. I'd like to be able to have a 100" (width) screen but I think it is better that the screen stay under the flat part of ceiling rather than extend over to the right under the sloped portion. What do you think about this?


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post #3 of 48 Old 01-03-2009, 04:49 PM
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I wouldn't worry about whether or not it's under that ceiling area. Paint the ceiling and the angled part black and you'll never know anyway when watching a movie.

I also think the screen looks a bit high. How did you come up with that height? Your eyes are at the center of the screen when you're standing. Ideally you'd want your eyes to be at the center (or 1/3 the way up), when you're sitting.

Where are you going to put your left speaker?

Is there anyway to reverse the room? Make some kind of false wall and hang the projector where the seating is now? Put the seating near the entrance. Having an open doorway like that so close to the screen would bug the crap out of me the whole time I was watching a movie.

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post #4 of 48 Old 01-03-2009, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew4msu View Post

I wouldn't worry about whether or not it's under that ceiling area. Paint the ceiling and the angled part black and you'll never know anyway when watching a movie.

I thought about that too but I have a couch on that east wall so that is the other reason to limit how far the screen stretches to the right. But I am seriously considering stretching it out even bigger and blowing off the idea of having the screen end where the sloped ceiling begins. Bigger is generally better!

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Originally Posted by Stew4msu View Post

I also think the screen looks a bit high. How did you come up with that height? Your eyes are at the center of the screen when you're standing. Ideally you'd want your eyes to be at the center (or 1/3 the way up), when you're sitting.

Another good point. The top of the screen (viewing area) is 11" from the ceiling. The distance assumes I will flush mount the projector with a Chief RPAUW mount from the ceiling. The mount is about 2" tall and the projector has an offset of 9.3" at the throw distance I'll be using (12.4').

I wanted to flush mount it because the room has 8' ceilings and the sloped ceiling on one side so I was trying to avoid having the projector dropped from the ceiling so the room doesn't seem more cramped than it already is.

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Where are you going to put your left speaker?

For the time being I would probably mount my two fronts just under the screen on the left and right.

The alternative is to build a false wall and put them behind the screen on the left and right side. The attractive part about the false wall is that I could work a door into that entry if I did that. The downside is that would increase the cost of the project significantly.

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Originally Posted by Stew4msu View Post

Is there anyway to reverse the room? Make some kind of false wall and hang the projector where the seating is now? Put the seating near the entrance. Having an open doorway like that so close to the screen would bug the crap out of me the whole time I was watching a movie.

I thought about covering the window but I just sorta prefer the room setup projecting on the wall that is already available. Good idea though.

Thanks for the suggestions. Please keep them coming.


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post #5 of 48 Old 01-03-2009, 08:01 PM
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I'd put the screen where you wrote 19.5 and have the easting in the opposed section.
For the screen you could build a fake wall from that roof slope and put your speakers behind. Or could just use a pulldown screen from the angled ceiling.
You seem to have about 13' from the end of the wall to the start of the slope. 14-15 if you put the screen lower. 100" inches is possible
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post #6 of 48 Old 01-03-2009, 09:05 PM
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In my not so expert opinion... I would keep the fan in there. It's a Bonus room and I'm sure you know how hot they CAN get.

When we built our house we told the electrician (Me) not to put a ceiling fan in since it would interfere with the HT. Well after 4 years of trying to control the environment which includes a separate HVAC system for the upstairs, I am now going to put a low profile fan in (with no lights of course).

To make a long story short, I have near identical (bonus) room behind my HT and it has a fan in it. This room is noticeably more comfortable with the fan even on low than the HT and the room with the fan is on the south side of the house with a south facing 4'x6' window.

I think having a large 52" fan that spins even on low will aid in keeping the HVAC from kicking on and off so frequently. The evil nature of a Bonus room I guess.

I have been known to be wrong though.
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post #7 of 48 Old 01-04-2009, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekO View Post

I'd put the screen where you wrote 19.5 and have the easting in the opposed section.
For the screen you could build a fake wall from that roof slope and put your speakers behind. Or could just use a pulldown screen from the angled ceiling.
You seem to have about 13' from the end of the wall to the start of the slope. 14-15 if you put the screen lower. 100" inches is possible

Yeah, I thought of that. The big downside to that configuration is that it significantly limits seating options. As can be seen in pic 5 of my post above, there is a large built-in with cabinets and shelves. So I would have to leave space between the seats and the cabinets. I originally had the room setup that way when I had my old Sony 30" CRT in there. Trust me, the room seemed much more cramped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highside View Post

In my not so expert opinion... I would keep the fan in there. It's a Bonus room and I'm sure you know how hot they CAN get.

I appreciate you pointing that out. I've been in thermal denial about the room. The fact is that the room is always hotter than the rest of the upstairs. For one thing it is slightly higher than the rest of the upstairs (notice small set of steps leading to the room in pics 1,3, and 4). The other thing is that the sloped ceiling lets alot of heat through and the other exterior wall (opposite the screen in existing setup) faces south. Lastly I am in south Texas...

I talked to the HVAC repair guy last time he was out and he said he could put another vent in the bonus room. He said that should help. What do ya'll think?

If I leave the ceiling fan then I would definitely have to drop the projector down more from the ceiling. Also, I would have to replace existing one with non-lighted version.


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post #8 of 48 Old 01-06-2009, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I framed out a 110 inch (diagonal) screen and dropped it down so that eye level from seating area is about 1/3 up the screen. Notice that the screen extends under the sloped ceiling.



With no lighting except from the hallway



With some backlighting from a floor lamp near seating area.




This was the original shot of the 100 inch screen.


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post #9 of 48 Old 01-06-2009, 07:46 PM
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Being a fellow texan with a theater room, consider leaving the fan connection and buying an inexpensive ($60) black fan with no light kit. Your room is upstairs and it will get warm up there. My ceiling is black and the fan is actually mounted in front of the projector right above the main seating. The fan does not interfere with the picture and you never even know it is on, but man did I know it didn't exist for the 2 weeks I was without it. I ended up having to re-wire the fan. Depending on your screen height you may not have to drop the projector much lower.

Also, when you lower your screen you reduce the likelyhood your speakers will fit under the screen. Mine are Axiom M80s and they are about 12" taller than the bottom of the screen. My screen s 30" off the floor and it seems about right.

As someone else said, paint the ceiling and that sloped wall black if you can.

Also, is there attic behind that knee wall on the right side of the screen. If so you could frame something out for a rack over there.

Good luck.
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post #10 of 48 Old 01-06-2009, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golferadam View Post

I framed out a 96 inch screen and dropped it down so that eye level from seating area is about 1/3 up the screen. Notice that the screen extends under the sloped ceiling.



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post #11 of 48 Old 01-07-2009, 02:55 AM
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Think the false wall would work great in your condition
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post #12 of 48 Old 01-07-2009, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigDvette View Post

Being a fellow texan with a theater room, consider leaving the fan connection and buying an inexpensive ($60) black fan with no light kit. Your room is upstairs and it will get warm up there. My ceiling is black and the fan is actually mounted in front of the projector right above the main seating. The fan does not interfere with the picture and you never even know it is on, but man did I know it didn't exist for the 2 weeks I was without it. I ended up having to re-wire the fan. Depending on your screen height you may not have to drop the projector much lower.

Also, when you lower your screen you reduce the likelyhood your speakers will fit under the screen. Mine are Axiom M80s and they are about 12" taller than the bottom of the screen. My screen s 30" off the floor and it seems about right.

As someone else said, paint the ceiling and that sloped wall black if you can.

Also, is there attic behind that knee wall on the right side of the screen. If so you could frame something out for a rack over there.

Good luck.

There seems to be consensus that I will roast in the room without the fan. My experience supports that too. I just wonder how effective another HVAC vent in the room will be. Anyone have experience in this area? If I have two HVAC vents in this room (roughly 16' x 16' space), do you think it will cool okay?

Good advice about lowering the screen. I need some more data points on where people mount their screens relative to eye level. I will set up a poll to get an idea about it.

No attic behind knee wall. That is an exterior wall.

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Think the false wall would work great in your condition

I agree. That would allow me to put a door at the entry too, but it will make the room seem smaller for sure.


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post #13 of 48 Old 01-20-2009, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Update:

Had to paint the kitchen after having drywall repair...still taking care of Ike recovery stuff...so haven't had a chance to do much but think and discuss the setup with some friends.

They convinced me that I need to leave room on each side of the screen for some speakers, even though right now I only have two tiny Sharper Image speakers I will be using for my fronts initially...lol.

So I dropped the screen size back down to 100 inch (diagonal), which is the smallest I can go anyway according to the ProjectorCentral page.

I moved it to the right and dropped it lower but unfortunately I went too low. Even my wife commented that eye level now hits up around the halfway point, and she seldom notices anything about the whole setup. I took some pics but the screen looks reasonable where it is in the pics. However, I can assure you it is uncomfortably low right now. You will notice there is considerable wallspace between the ceiling and top of screen.

Here is a diagram and a pic:



As you can see I could raise the screen and still be following the 1/3 rule suggestion. Although it is not as noticeable in the pics, the 25 inches from the ceiling to the top of the screen doesn't feel comfortable.



I'm using a diaper trash can and a slender box to represent front speakers. For reference, the slender black box on the right of the photo is 32 inches in height. On the left side near the doorway I've moved the screen to the right such that I have 14 inches of open wall space, measuring from the edge of the entry to the blue border of the screen.

I am thinking that I will raise the screen 3 inches to put eye level right at 1/3 up the screen and I will move it 1 inch to the left so it doesn't seem too close to the sloped ceiling. That will leave me with 13 inches of wall space on the left side to the edge of the screen border and 15 inches to the edge of the viewable screen itself. Do you think that will be enough room for a typical floor speaker?


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post #14 of 48 Old 01-20-2009, 08:16 PM
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Man you will regret going smaller you can never be to big

There are tons of speakers that are low profile to fit under the screen and still sound awesome. You could even do a transparent screen and use inwall speakers

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post #15 of 48 Old 01-21-2009, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Man you will regret going smaller you can never be to big

There are tons of speakers that are low profile to fit under the screen and still sound awesome. You could even do a transparent screen and use inwall speakers

You are so right W00lly. I already regret it somewhat, but I just don't foresee myself being able to do the false wall in the near future. My wife has severely limited my capital spending due to uncertain economic climate

So for now I will leave some space over there for the speaker. What do ya'll think? Will 13 inches be enough or should I try to move it to the right nearer the sloped ceiling and give myself more room on that left side?


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post #16 of 48 Old 01-21-2009, 11:26 AM
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Adam

With in-wall speakers you would not need a false wall. Check out Calvin's thread he did in-walls and is vary happy with his set up. You could build your own acoustical transparent screen using sheer weave. The DIY fabric is on sale now If you call and ask they will send you a sample of there fabric

http://www.seymourav.com/store.asp


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post10493043

Scott


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post #17 of 48 Old 01-24-2009, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Update:

Went to Home Depot and Lowes last weekend looking for a floor flange and pipe that will work with the Chief mount I am using. They had one there that should work. I drew a sketch of my proposed mount. I haven't seen alot of discussion on this but what I am thinking about doing is running a piece of threaded pipe through the ceiling and up into the attic where it will be attached to the floor flange, which in turn will be screwed down to a 2x6". My plan is to lay the 2x6" across two rafters and secure it that way. The result will be that the only thing showing in the room itself will be the pipe and the projector mounted with the Chief mount. Take a look at the sketch and let me know if this makes sense.



Have others done mounts like this?


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post #18 of 48 Old 02-04-2009, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Update: Well haven't had a chance to do much other than go to the hardware store and price the 1.5 inch floor flange. I'm in the middle of a master bedroom remodel that unfortunately must come first. I asked the guy at the hardware store if they could cut me a metal 1.5 inch pipe to a specific length and thread it. He said they don't have the facilities to do that.

Have others had pipes cut to custom length and threaded to use with a projector mount? If so, where did you get it done?

Also, any feedback on my proposed mount described above?


Thanks for your help.


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post #19 of 48 Old 02-04-2009, 10:14 PM
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You should be able to get different length threaded nipples at Lowe's or home depot for your mount I do believe that they are 1 1/2" mine was. Take it with you to the plumbing section and match it up. then paint it black

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post #20 of 48 Old 02-08-2009, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W00lly View Post

You should be able to get different length threaded nipples at Lowe's or home depot for your mount I do believe that they are 1 1/2" mine was. Take it with you to the plumbing section and match it up. then paint it black

Thanks. I ended up up getting a 12" section. I'm gonna post some pics of the progress I made yesterday.


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post #21 of 48 Old 02-08-2009, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are some pics of the Chief mount I got.













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post #22 of 48 Old 02-08-2009, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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The figure in the Chief instructions show the way of mounting I was asking about. In the figure they it as toe-nailed between the joists. I ended up running the base board across the joists.



I tried several configurations with the SBLU (bracket) that came with the RPAUW. It was a bit challenging because of the small size of the HD65. The three bracket holes were only about 4 inches apart. I ended up settling with this configuration for the bracket.



After measuring the proper location for the extension pipe, I ran a coathanger up into the attic space above to ensure there was clearance above the spot I planned to mount it.



This shows the attic space above. You can see the coathanger poking up through the ceiling. I was worried about the joist that runs down the middle of the room but after checking it, I knew the base I was planning to use would clear the middle joist.



This is the board I used as a base to run across the joists. I used a 1.5 inch floor flange to connect the extension pipe.



I cut out a hole in the board so I can run an HDMI through it to the rack.



I painted the 12 inch nipple with white gloss spray paint to match the RPAUW. I know, I know...what's up with the white? I have to maintain the existing color scheme for now.





I put the flashlight over the hole in the attic and it made it easier to trace out the hole to cut in the drywall.



I used the cap that came with the RPAUW to trace out the hole I cut. The little beam of light made it easier to center it.





I didn't have a large hole bit for my drill so I cut several smaller holes and used a blade to cut it out.



It worked out pretty well. The extension pipe fit tightly.



There were M3 screws of two lengths included with the RPAUW. Unfortunately one was too long and the over too short. So I got a size between the two at the hardware store.



The bracket attached.



The RPAUW attached to the extension pipe.



Finally got it up. Next up, order the HDMI cable and run it through the attic to the rack area.


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post #23 of 48 Old 02-09-2009, 09:32 PM
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Looking good. The light in the attic...very creative and practical. I agree with the others and would also suggest to paint your ceiling flat black. My walls are a deep maroon or burgundy color and my ceiling is black. When lights go out, it gets super dark. In one of your photos, you can see the blue reflecting off the white ceiling. If it is black, it will absorb most of that light and as mentioned, you won't have to worry about getting the image under the flat part of the ceiling.


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post #24 of 48 Old 02-10-2009, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Looking good. The light in the attic...very creative and practical. I agree with the others and would also suggest to paint your ceiling flat black. My walls are a deep maroon or burgundy color and my ceiling is black. When lights go out, it gets super dark. In one of your photos, you can see the blue reflecting off the white ceiling. If it is black, it will absorb most of that light and as mentioned, you won't have to worry about getting the image under the flat part of the ceiling.

Definitely planning to repaint once I get the wiring done.


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post #25 of 48 Old 02-12-2009, 07:20 AM
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awesome job and great use of space. Look forward to the finished result.

George
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post #26 of 48 Old 02-13-2009, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thediscexchange View Post

awesome job and great use of space. Look forward to the finished result.

Thanks discexchange.

I have a new question. I need to run my in-wall HDMI cable from the PJ to the rack area. I was looking on monoprice and there are so many different versions. I measured it and I have to go about 25 feet, but I am thinking I will probably get a 35 footer to be sure I don't short myself. What version or shielding should I go for? Direct product suggestions are very much appreciated.


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post #27 of 48 Old 02-15-2009, 01:18 PM
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Thanks discexchange.

I have a new question. I need to run my in-wall HDMI cable from the PJ to the rack area. I was looking on monoprice and there are so many different versions. I measured it and I have to go about 25 feet, but I am thinking I will probably get a 35 footer to be sure I don't short myself. What version or shielding should I go for? Direct product suggestions are very much appreciated.

Definitely get more cable than you need. With Monoprice, it won't be too much extra and you will be glad you had a few extra feet. I have an HDMI cable from Monoprice. It came with my PS3 that I bought used from a guy in the Klipsch Forums. The shielding is HUGE which is a good thing. You don't want any signal interference for your video. Mine says CL2 22 AWG and is 40'. It looks like I have this one. It measures almost 1/2 inch thick. I was very surprised at how thick it was. Great quality cable at very affordable cost. They have some good info on their knowledge base about HDMI. As cheap as they are, I'd go for the lowest gauge HDMI cable they carry.


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post #28 of 48 Old 02-15-2009, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Definitely get more cable than you need. With Monoprice, it won't be too much extra and you will be glad you had a few extra feet. I have an HDMI cable from Monoprice. It came with my PS3 that I bought used from a guy in the Klipsch Forums. The shielding is HUGE which is a good thing. You don't want any signal interference for your video. Mine says CL2 22 AWG and is 40'. It looks like I have this one. It measures almost 1/2 inch thick. I was very surprised at how thick it was. Great quality cable at very affordable cost. They have some good info on their knowledge base about HDMI. As cheap as they are, I'd go for the lowest gauge HDMI cable they carry.

Thanks. I'm gonna go with that one you linked to.


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post #29 of 48 Old 02-15-2009, 09:24 PM
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Sounds like a plan to me.


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post #30 of 48 Old 02-16-2009, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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While we're on the subject of wiring, I plan to order speaker wire for my in-wall rewiring portion of the project. What do you suggest?


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