Saga of the "Old Vic" - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1144 Old 03-22-2010, 08:57 PM
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Thanks for sharing your nice work on the QRDs, Moggie - nicely illustrated too!

Thanks also for the positive mention of QRDude - I've added a link to this section of your build thread from the qrd overview page.

regards
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post #362 of 1144 Old 03-22-2010, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post


New (and final) approach was to purchase a 1" polystyrene sheet and rip to size on the table saw. Now assembly consists of painting epoxy (NOT the polyester "resin" shown in the pic -- that melts polystyrene!) into to the rear of each well and then inserting the foam. This is a little more time consuming but keeps the panels nice and straight. Just 18 more panels to go..

Moggie,

Is putting either the spray foam or rigid foam behind the fins just to stop resonance?

Cheers,
Simon
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post #363 of 1144 Old 03-23-2010, 06:53 AM
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Hey Moggie, pretty cool project with those QRD panels. At this point I don't know if it matters or not, but they sell that great stuff in a blue can. The blue can is specifically for doors and widows, so that they don't bow/blow out and cause opening and closing issues. This should have prevented the issue you came across. Good luck, I hope your new solution works out.
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post #364 of 1144 Old 03-23-2010, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collo View Post

Thanks for sharing your nice work on the QRDs, Moggie - nicely illustrated too!

Thanks also for the positive mention of QRDude - I've added a link to this section of your build thread from the qrd overview page.

regards
Collo

No worries mate (lot of Australians around this forum). I just made the connection with you as the author of QRDude. Great program/web site -- I learned a lot from it.

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Originally Posted by raZorTT View Post

Moggie,

Is putting either the spray foam or rigid foam behind the fins just to stop resonance?

Cheers,
Simon

Simon, yes the foam is to prevent the possibility of resonance since I wanted to make the panels hollow to keep weight down. The original plan was also to use the foam as a kind of glue for the well bottoms.

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Originally Posted by oman321 View Post

Hey Moggie, pretty cool project with those QRD panels. At this point I don't know if it matters or not, but they sell that great stuff in a blue can. The blue can is specifically for doors and widows, so that they don't bow/blow out and cause opening and closing issues. This should have prevented the issue you came across. Good luck, I hope your new solution works out.

Thanks oman321. Well, it's too late for me now because the last panel (number 30) was hung yesterday but I did have to resort to the longer winded rigid foam technique. If the blue can foam as similar sticking power to the red stuff then it would have been perfect and I would have been done 2 days earlier. You should stop by more often

I'll post pictures later today.

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post #365 of 1144 Old 03-23-2010, 10:07 AM
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I stop in often, it's just been crazy lately. Looking foward to seeing your pics.
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post #366 of 1144 Old 03-23-2010, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oman321 View Post

I stop in often, it's just been crazy lately. Looking foward to seeing your pics.

Certainly you have been preoccupied lately -- how could I forget.. Sorry.

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post #367 of 1144 Old 03-23-2010, 10:24 AM
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Keep it up Moggie. I ended up getting with bpape to help with the acoustical treatment so I should hear back from him soon.

Where are you located at anyway. I would love to come and check out your place and see the star ceiling in person. I just sat in my room last night with just the rope light going and loved the feeling it gave the room. I could only imagine what the star ceiling would do. I have it prewired for it but well see if I do it later.

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post #368 of 1144 Old 03-23-2010, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I lost count of exactly how long I spent building but the final tally was a couple of days longer than I expected due to resorting to cutting solid foam inserts. Also the total materials cost was somewhere around $350 (the epoxy added about $75). So for the record my final approach for the 2" and 4" panels was to use my template only to fit the back squarely then I cut EPS foam to size and assembled with epoxy from the front side. I brushed some epoxy in the bottom of each well, pushed in the foam and then brushed epoxy on top of the foam and finally inserted the MDF well bottoms.



All that was left was to hang all these suckers. I needed to run some speaker wire behind one of them so routed out a channel behind one of the shallow wells.



Then a few dabs of construction adhesive to ensure the back panel didn't resonate, dry biscuit joints to ensure the fronts were aligned and a couple of screws.



And the visual results (shame it is all going to be covered). Note the rear wall absorption is still work in progress.



Right and left sides. The four small panels on the floor on the left are to be fixed to the door as soon as I get the wide throw hinges mounted.



And the deeper panels at the rear (alternating N7 and N11 designs):



So how does it sound? Well, the speakers are not wired back up yet but the rear of the room is profoundly different to what it was before the panels. It is still very live but probably the best way to describe the results is that with my eyes closed and my dog barking in the room or when clapping my hands, the room sounds twice as big as it did before. The very obvious slap echo between the side walls has practically vanished (and I still have to add more absorption).

Hope this little QR_Detour was of interest to some, now back to regular theater building...

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post #369 of 1144 Old 03-23-2010, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adammb View Post

Keep it up Moggie. I ended up getting with bpape to help with the acoustical treatment so I should hear back from him soon.

Where are you located at anyway. I would love to come and check out your place and see the star ceiling in person. I just sat in my room last night with just the rope light going and loved the feeling it gave the room. I could only imagine what the star ceiling would do. I have it prewired for it but well see if I do it later.

Thanks Adam, I'm in California. I'll PM you with more specifics.

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post #370 of 1144 Old 03-23-2010, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Certainly you have been preoccupied lately -- how could I forget.. Sorry.

No worries, nothing to apologize for. I think your project was very intresting and appreciate the level of detail that you go into with everything. I wish I were closer to you so I could see it in person. Best of luck with your continued effort.
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post #371 of 1144 Old 03-23-2010, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Hope this little QR_Detour was of interest to some, now back to regular theater building...

Absolutely!!!

Great work as usual Moggie!

Cheers,
Simon
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post #372 of 1144 Old 04-02-2010, 06:25 AM
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Alright Moggie.. It scares me when your quiet for too long... Just like my boys, I figured I better check and see what your up too..

Brad

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post #373 of 1144 Old 04-02-2010, 08:25 AM
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Just amazing Moggie.
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post #374 of 1144 Old 04-02-2010, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright Moggie.. It scares me when your quiet for too long... Just like my boys, I figured I better check and see what your up too..

Brad

Brad, Sometimes I think I should be progressing at a much faster rate... I think I could have completely redecorated the ground floor of my house in the time I've put into the theater. Poor planning has meant I've been waiting for some parts to arrive. Anyway, here are a few pics of where things stand...

I finished the acoustic treatment (4" FSK covered OC703 on the rear wall) and fitted the initial layer of maple trim. I'm using the maple only as a reveal behind the final trim so you will only see 3/4" strips if things go to plan.



I have decided to go with the fabricmate system for the wall panels primarily because I like the idea of easy panel replacement and it generally will work better with my layout which doesn't has a huge amount of trim work surrounding the panels. It may not be obvious but one area that really made my head hurt (or maybe it was the hangover) was how to panel around the "control closet" without trimming in the arch. I think I got it figured out.



The other problematic area was the door. The 1" or so of treatment on the door and surrounding walls meant that I had to order some special "wide throw hinges" which will compensate for the added thickness. They arrived yesterday so I can finally get the door rehung. Unfortunately they are not the finish I expected so I may have to paint them.



Next step is to cover the front wall and frame the screen wall, then finish the light trays so I can remove the drywall lift from the room. It never ends...

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post #375 of 1144 Old 04-02-2010, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fotto View Post

Just amazing Moggie.

Thanks Floyd -- I assume you mean the QRD panels? All I'll say is "never again"...!

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post #376 of 1144 Old 04-02-2010, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Thanks Floyd -- I assume you mean the QRD panels? All I'll say is "never again"...!

Yeah, primarily the panels, but secondarily the overall build. I'm afraid I'd blow several fuses over the amount of planning and execution you've done.
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post #377 of 1144 Old 04-03-2010, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
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Brad, Sometimes I think I should be progressing at a much faster rate... I think I could have completely redecorated the ground floor of my house in the time I've put into the theater.

Moggie.. Stop!!.. Please!!.. your killin me!! Your are the Progress King

My previous superfluous post was more an expression of my own fear of what you would pull of next. ie.. star ceiling, QRD's etc... than a questioning of your prolific rate of progress...

Couple of questions:
where you able to purchase the 703 with the FRK applied or did you purchase the FRK and apply seperately?

The hinge is interesting... my door is on the rear wall where there will be ~4" of treatment.. I have no clue, no plan, on what to do here as far as a hinge goes.

What's your plan for above/top of the arch.. will you use hardwood above? or wil that be cloth also? can the fabric trac follow a radii?

Keep up the impressive work!!!

Brad

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post #378 of 1144 Old 04-03-2010, 07:15 PM
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I'm gonna throw in on top of Brad. Where did you buy the FSK and what are you using to cover your OC703 and FSK so you cannot see it behind your cloth panels and where did you get it. bpape got my analysis done and now I need to go buy the products and hang em. Tips would be greatly appreciated. I am going to double up 2" on the rear wall and use 2" on the sides and front wall.

If I missed this earlier in your thread just give me a rough page number and I'll do the research.

THX

Adam

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post #379 of 1144 Old 04-03-2010, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

Moggie.. Stop!!.. Please!!.. your killin me!! Your are the Progress King

My previous superfluous post was more an expression of my own fear of what you would pull of next. ie.. star ceiling, QRD's etc... than a questioning of your prolific rate of progress...

Couple of questions:
where you able to purchase the 703 with the FRK applied or did you purchase the FRK and apply seperately?

The hinge is interesting... my door is on the rear wall where there will be ~4" of treatment.. I have no clue, no plan, on what to do here as far as a hinge goes.

What's your plan for above/top of the arch.. will you use hardwood above? or wil that be cloth also? can the fabric trac follow a radii?

Keep up the impressive work!!!

Brad

Sorry, but got to get this thing done ... actually I'm going to post a little update (which might sway you in what to do next).

As to your questions:
1. The wide throw hinges come in a few different sizes, 4" offset is quite large but I believe there are hinges for 3". You could build out the door jamb an inch so the door only has 3" of treatment, then the 3" wide throw would work.
2. Got the oc703 and FSK separately from bpape. It's trivial to stick with 3M super 77 spray glue. In fact it is better to do is separately since you can cover seams.
3. Arch... you have a sharp eye in that that is a problematic area for the track. I tried to bend the track using a heat gun with partial success. With tight radius it is almost impossible to avoid little kinks. I think I've come up with a way to simply staple the face fabric around the top of the arch and then trim over the staples with some fabric covered hardboard. It would have been easy if I put trim around the arch but I want it to blend into the wall panel scheme.

Cheers!

My "Old Vic" Theater Build
My 8 year old daughter: "are contractors the people that mess up your house for money?"
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post #380 of 1144 Old 04-03-2010, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I couldn't resist a little update after a very mellow day HT building. Yesterday I started finishing up the front wall, but today, rather than finish that I decided to place and wire up the 7.1 speakers (or can I claim 7.4?) to put the new acoustic treatment to the test...

After lunch I hooked up my Sonos music player, placed a garden chair in the middle of all my junk, turned the lights off and listened to some tunes... a while later I got up to check the time -- it was dark and 5 hours had passed!

Suffice to say that even with a trivial amount of calibration I can tell now that my new HT is going to sound way better than anything I've owned before. I've had a smile on my face ever since.

As always some pics:



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post #381 of 1144 Old 04-03-2010, 08:15 PM
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post #382 of 1144 Old 04-03-2010, 09:18 PM
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Outstanding! I'm subscribed
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post #383 of 1144 Old 04-03-2010, 09:35 PM
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Great stuff Moggie!! It's looking fantastic!

Simon
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post #384 of 1144 Old 04-04-2010, 06:39 AM
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I'm gonna suggest to not put fabric up. You have done so much and with such detail I think the theater police should enforce this as it would be a shame to cover it up. Everytime I scroll past the pictures I have to stop and look again.

Adam

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post #385 of 1144 Old 04-05-2010, 05:01 PM
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Wow. Everything is turning out very nicely.

An Aspen Woods Theater - Under Construction

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post #386 of 1144 Old 04-16-2010, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

3. Arch... you have a sharp eye in that that is a problematic area for the track. I tried to bend the track using a heat gun with partial success. With tight radius it is almost impossible to avoid little kinks. I think I've come up with a way to simply staple the face fabric around the top of the arch and then trim over the staples with some fabric covered hardboard. It would have been easy if I put trim around the arch but I want it to blend into the wall panel scheme.

Cheers!

You've probably already have this completed by now... but heres a post from a thread that popped up recently.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post15232155

Brad

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post #387 of 1144 Old 04-16-2010, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

You've probably already have this completed by now... but heres a post from a thread that popped up recently.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post15232155

Brad

Brad, thanks very much for the link -- it is *really* helpful. In fact I'm going to change the way I do the arch a little and eliminate a seam I thought I was stuck with.

I haven't actually fitted any track yet although it's sitting on the floor ready to go. There is no point in putting any fabric on the walls whilst I'm still making dust. I've been working on a bunch of other little things and will probably post an update in a few days.

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post #388 of 1144 Old 04-21-2010, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I've been quite lazy lately and have neglected updating my photo journal. So here's a quick update on how the 'old Vic' is progressing.

First and foremost it's been really nice to work in the theater with music playing although my dog doesn't really like the loud base!



I did start fitting fabric to the walls but realized it was probably not the best idea until I had finished making major dust and had painted the QRD panels. I did find that a 1/8x1" strip of Masonite wrapped in fabric makes a neat way to hide a staple seam. Even though this is actually behind the screen I do want to back light the speakers and so wanted this to look finished.



I made a couple of hatches. The first will be fitted in the ceiling above the rack to access the fan and area where the cables enter the theater. I made it nice and heavy with a double layer of MDF.



The second hatch is fitted in the ceiling of the walk in closet where the star ceiling illuminator is installed. I made a secret latch so the fabric covered door should bend in with the rest of the ceiling. The door also has a recessed seal so it makes the illuminator enclosure sound proof to eliminate the tiny sound of the rotating animation disk. Speaking of the closet I got a suitable light installed. Unfortunately it is not IC rated so I avoided insulation in this area.



The entrance door has been refitted with the new wide throw hinges. The treatment is identical to the surrounding walls and the intent is to make it a hidden door and blend in with the walls. The hinges allow the door to easily clear the 1" of treatment.



In addition to the dedicated HVAC zone, I'm planning on two additional fans: one to vent the rack since I'm going to fit a glass door to seal it up and the other to ventilate the projector hush box. The language used by in-line fan manufacturers to describe their fans include "whisper quiet" or "virtually silent". Don't believe it for a second, these things are like jet engines taking off! In an attempt to get the noise under control I put them in MDF boxes. The motor is actually suspended inside the box on neoprene mounts and then the box is stuffed with insulation. The short flex duct connection ensures the motor is decoupled from the box.



The first box was sealed, christened and then put in place above the rack.



The result was plenty good enough for the rack extraction but the second box I made for the projector hush box was not good enough for mounting inside of the theater soffit. Even with the fan controller at 50% this motor noise could still be easily heard. I've since removed this unit until I figure out what to do. The problem is that I originally planned on using regular square fan motors but unfortunately these don't generate enough static pressure to push air through the 10' of 5" duct from the hush box to the return vent. I'm trying another approach using one of the truly quiet (0.3 sones vs 1.4 for the in line fans) Panasonic bathroom fans. If I can't make that silent I guess I'll have to figure out how to have the fan outside of the theater... the problem is that would mean an unscheduled additional hole in the aquarium. Anyone have any bright ideas?



At this point I got this delivery of fabricmate tracks and realized I wasn't quite ready to fit them.



In preparation for mounting the light trays I added a bunch of mounts to the soffits



Then masked everything off and did what I've been dreading and dusted everything that might show or reflect light with "mouse ears" flat black paint. This picture doesn't really convey how dark and miserable it is to work down there now -- there are so few surfaces that reflect any light despite 600W halogen work lights.



With everything so dark I realized I had to do something about the lighting situation and so it was time to get the light trays and recessed lights installed. Here are a couple of design ideas I played with. The final design is somewhere between the two and being made in contrasting maple and walnut hardwood. The lower tray will house 18 3" halogens.



The prototype trays also showed I needed to do a better job on the border around the star ceiling -- the line of screw holes was exactly the 1" strip that would have been visible and probably unsightly when lit. The solution was to glue some strips of fabric to cover the screw holes (and paint) for a uniform look. I also added a 2" band of aluminum tape to act as a reflector strip for the rope lights. I'm sure this is going to work nicely since it is very effective and reflecting my work lights.



Well that's it. This rambling post brings my build almost up-to-date and I'm finally making walnut and maple dust rather than MDF -- it's so much more fun! Also, for the first time I can see light at the end of the tunnel and have even been out carpet shopping

Cheers.

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post #389 of 1144 Old 04-21-2010, 10:55 PM
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nice work moggie, some excellent progress!

Simon
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post #390 of 1144 Old 04-22-2010, 06:24 AM
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Door, what door??? Seriously though, awesome progress.

Tough break on the fan, but I think you should be successful with the Panasonic fan as others have been.

I didn't focus on sound proofing but since I have my projector in a soffit/shelf I did want to vent. I ran about 15' of flex duct with an inline duct fan in the mechanical room. With an attic thermostat this kicks on when it hits tempature and if I hold my hand agains the vent in the projector bay I can feel the air flow. From the HT I cannot hear the fan at all, but in the kitchen above I can hear a low hum as the fan is mounted in between a couple of joists below it. This I don't mind as it reassures me that the fan is kicking on. Usually hear when we go to get popcorn or something to snack during a movie break.
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