Saga of the "Old Vic" - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1151 Old 05-23-2010, 07:38 AM
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Awesome! Great milestone...

This may be a first, I cant recall seeing another dual layer soffit.
By the way the upper soffit creates the current edge shadow with the lower rope, it appears that a red rope would give you exactly the Fading Sunset look you envision. On the other hand, the blue may provide a sort of night time moon glow Either way, cant wait to see it with the walnut trim.

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Ah drywall .. i must admit that whilst I hated the monotony of the double drywall of the theater, a small job like the lobby is actually quite enjoyable.


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post #452 of 1151 Old 05-23-2010, 08:09 AM
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You can probably do a run of each and if you end up doing a second grafik eye have them on separate zones perhaps to transition from one to the other. Just a thought.
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post #453 of 1151 Old 05-23-2010, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the compliments guys. It definitely motivates me.

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Originally Posted by raZorTT View Post

What did you use to apply your stain? a brush? or rags?

I used a rag. Technically it is not a stain but rather dye tinted shellac. This makes it possible to use a rag with maple. If it were stain I would probably have to spray for an even finish because a stain would be absorbed unevenly.

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You can probably do a run of each and if you end up doing a second grafik eye have them on separate zones perhaps to transition from one to the other. Just a thought.


Oh no!
Why did you have to plant this (great) idea in my mind I have closed up the wring but technically could still do this. I have a short length of blue rope, perhaps I'll go down to HD and buy a piece of red and experiment.. Perhaps some multi-color LED and controller to create the Aurora Borealis

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post #454 of 1151 Old 05-23-2010, 02:17 PM
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Moggie, your room is really taking shape! I love the star ceiling with the comet. I do think you need to stop using shelac in your theater because the fumes are obviously getting to you because you said you actually enjoyed doing drywall. I HATE DRYWALL!
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post #455 of 1151 Old 05-23-2010, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post




Oh no!
Why did you have to plant this (great) idea in my mind I have closed up the wring but technically could still do this. I have a short length of blue rope, perhaps I'll go down to HD and buy a piece of red and experiment.. Perhaps some multi-color LED and controller to create the Aurora Borealis

At least it is still doable rather than a suggestion after the fact. Good luck.
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post #456 of 1151 Old 05-25-2010, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Moggie, your room is really taking shape! I love the star ceiling with the comet. I do think you need to stop using shelac in your theater because the fumes are obviously getting to you because you said you actually enjoyed doing drywall. I HATE DRYWALL!

I think it was the Gin I used to dissolve the shellac Actually talking about fumes, I decided I wasn't happy with the ragged shellac finish on the larger panels (it was a stretch to whether I could create an even coat particularly with the color tint) so I rubbed these panels down with alcohol, sanded the rest then spent hours masking everything off. I used the inline fan I purchased but could not use to pump fresh air into the room, switched off the power and lights, then sprayed some additional shellac coats by flashlight! Now that everything is masked I'll probably spray the final coats of satin poly too.

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post #457 of 1151 Old 05-25-2010, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Now that everything is masked I'll probably spray the final coats of satin poly too.

As long as you have an even, full coverage, coat of schellac, and your happy with the sheen, there is really no reason to coat over it with poly in an interior enviornment, unless its a wear iteam.

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post #458 of 1151 Old 05-25-2010, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

I think it was the Gin I used to dissolve the shellac

P.S. I found Crown Royal to give a much smoother finish

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post #459 of 1151 Old 05-25-2010, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

As long as you have an even, full coverage, coat of schellac, and your happy with the sheen, there is really no reason to coat over it with poly in an interior enviornment, unless its a wear iteam.

Probably true, but I'm on the third coat of shellac now and it has quite a shine to it (very nice actually). The satin poly is quite a bit duller. I'll put on one more coat then make the decision. My main concern is the expanse of wood above the screen.

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post #460 of 1151 Old 05-26-2010, 08:38 AM
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For your 20 amp circuits are you using 12 guage romex?
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post #461 of 1151 Old 05-26-2010, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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For your 20 amp circuits are you using 12 guage romex?

Yup. I used 12 gauge for all my wiring to give flexibility.

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post #462 of 1151 Old 05-26-2010, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Probably true, but I'm on the third coat of shellac now and it has quite a shine to it (very nice actually). The satin poly is quite a bit duller. I'll put on one more coat then make the decision. My main concern is the expanse of wood above the screen.

The nice thing about schellac is that you can get any sheen you want out of it, from a very hight gloss by buffing, to a hand rub dull finish. If you would like to try to eliminate the need fand hastle of spraying poly, you could try (on a test piece first) to scuff "lightly" with a scotch brite (id try the grey first, and if that didnt give the sheen your looking for try the maroon) then hand rub it with a tack cloth. This can acheive a nice low sheen finish that gives alot of depth/warmth to the wood.

If you go the poly route General finishes makes a really good water based product called Polyacrylic in various sheens that can be brushed on or sprayed, found at rockler and woodcraft stores or online.

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post #463 of 1151 Old 05-26-2010, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tips Brad. I've never tried scuffing shellac before but I'll give it a go. The beauty of shellac is that it is so simple to redo/undo. It also really does show off the wood. I can't continue today anyway because humidity is over 90% which is apparently not good for spraying shellac, so I'm going to design the columns.

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post #464 of 1151 Old 05-26-2010, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

I think it was the Gin I used to dissolve the shellac Actually talking about fumes, I decided I wasn't happy with the ragged shellac finish on the larger panels (it was a stretch to whether I could create an even coat particularly with the color tint) so I rubbed these panels down with alcohol, sanded the rest then spent hours masking everything off. I used the inline fan I purchased but could not use to pump fresh air into the room, switched off the power and lights, then sprayed some additional shellac coats by flashlight! Now that everything is masked I'll probably spray the final coats of satin poly too.

Target Coatings makes a waterborne shellac -- genuine shellac resins in a waterborne suspension: http://www.targetcoatings.com/shop/p...er-169-10.html. No alcohol so no bad fumes and no fire risk. Tints very well with TransTints. Sprays well and looks great. I haven't had much luck applying it by hand but then I have never had much luck applying alcohol-cut shellac by hand, either. The only disadvantage I have found is that I have to mail-order it since I've been unable to find a local dealer.

There are several really good waterbased topcoats on the market now, as well. If you were planning on using solvent-based poly for your topcoats, this might be a good time to look into waterbased alternatives. I'm happy to share my experiences if it would be helpful.

The theater looks fantastic, Moggie. I really enjoy your thread.

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post #465 of 1151 Old 05-26-2010, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Target Coatings makes a waterborne shellac -- genuine shellac resins in a waterborne suspension

dwightp, thanks for the heads up. I had no idea there was such a thing as waterborne shellac. Since shellac is often used to seal the wood have you had any issues with the water in this mix raising the grain?

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post #466 of 1151 Old 05-27-2010, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
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Since shellac is often used to seal the wood have you had any issues with the water in this mix raising the grain?

Like most (all?) waterborne products, this stuff will raise the grain a little. It's not as bad as you would get if you wiped down the unsealed wood with a wet rag, for example, but the dry surface won't be completely smooth to the touch. It will look smooth, but it won't feel completely smooth.

Whatever product I use, I always figure I'm going to have to sand my seal coat a little to knock down the last little bit of fuzz, so the small amount of raised grain from a waterborne seal coat is no big deal for me. A light sanding with 320 or 400 grit takes off the raised grain and the other fuzzies. It's certainly worth the lack of fumes and reduced/eliminated risk of fire, IMO.

For baseboards and other stuff that I figure won't be touched, I usually just ignore the small amount of raised grain from the waterbased shellac.

I should say that my experience with waterborne shellac has been applying it with a spray gun which, as you know, puts on a pretty thin layer. If one were to brush or wipe on a heavy coat -- flood the wood, so to speak -- I suspect you would get more raised grain. I don't know that for sure, but it seems likely.

The waterborne shellac is not a perfect product but I like it. Products like this are God-sends for those of us without ventilated spark-proof spray booths.

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post #467 of 1151 Old 06-07-2010, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
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Moggie,

What did you attach the GOM to the masonite with? spray adhesive?

Cheers,
Simon
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post #468 of 1151 Old 06-07-2010, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Moggie,

What did you attach the GOM to the masonite with? spray adhesive?

Cheers,
Simon

On the strip used to cover the staple seam? Yes, just a coat of Super-77 adhesive, press the Masonite to the GOM, then trim, turn over and repeat the glue on the backside (so the GOM wraps the strip). The strip was then attached with brad nails. I had to make sure my pneumatic nailer height was just right -- too high and the brads show, too low and it is easy to shoot through the 3/16" Masonite.

I can guess what you are doing

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post #469 of 1151 Old 06-07-2010, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

On the strip used to cover the staple seam? Yes, just a coat of Super-77 adhesive, press the Masonite to the GOM, then trim, turn over and repeat the glue on the backside (so the GOM wraps the strip). The strip was then attached with brad nails. I had to make sure my pneumatic nailer height was just right -- too high and the brads show, too low and it is easy to shoot through the 3/16" Masonite.

I can guess what you are doing

haha thanks Moggie!!
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post #470 of 1151 Old 06-14-2010, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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There are just too many distractions in summer... Nevertheless I've managed to plug away at the theater and have a few updates to share. Don't hold your breath, there hasn't been earth shattering progress in the theater but I have managed to wrap up a few things and I've been merrily spending money on equipment.

In the theater I did managed to finish the wood soffits to my satisfaction. It took 6-8 coats of tinted shellac (sprayed) and then a final hand rubbing of 000 wire wool and wax paste to achieve a really nice hand rubbed satin finish. Technically I used synthetic wire wool aka scotch pads (thanks for the tip KNKKNK). It was really exhausting work finishing the soffit in place and there was several times I wished I have purchased pre-finished maple ply, but now it's complete I'm definitely glad I went the route I did. The wood has a natural depth and glow to it. It's really different from a Poly finish. Here is a closeup but it's really difficult to capture feel.



Once the soffit was finished I was able to install 22 of these


My fingers were literally bleeding after daisy chaining these with 12 gauge romex -- the junction box is SO small and sharp. If I was to do this again I'd double up a couple of 15A lighting circuits instead of going with 20A and the requirement to use 12 gauge wire.

They all fired up first time:


Controlled by my first purchase. A 6-zone QS Grafik Eye. I still have 3 lighting zones to configure and I'm still not sure if I'll put in a second GE or use another approach. I really don't want to double up my current zones because I really like the division I have. For example, my down lighting is in three zones: front / main / bar. I wanted to be able to light up the third row bar without turning on the rest of the lights.


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post #471 of 1151 Old 06-14-2010, 07:21 PM
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The soffits look awesome moggie! So much detail! I can see why you probably have sore shoulders!

Cheers,
Simon
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post #472 of 1151 Old 06-14-2010, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Most of my time has been spent getting the lobby/rack into shape. It's been commented on why I'm taking so long but the reality is that I have been working on other related projects that just aren't interesting to talk about. One of those was an attempt to put in a (retrofit) structured wiring panel and create home run wiring for cable/phones. Here is the result:



This sits in the wall of the equipment rack closet which is now filling up fast:



I'm fitting equipment as it and the custom Middle Atlantic RSH shelves arrive. So far I've installed a couple of Outlaw amps, my Berhinger IB sub amp, Klipsch sub amp, SVS EQ1 and some UPS/power conditioning gizzmos. I'm still waiting for my Integra DHC80.1 to arrive before I can complete the wiring.

Just a quick plug for Middle Atlantic RSH shelves: they certainly aren't cheap but the company really has excellent service. If you look at the top of the rack you will see two Sonos media players side-by-side. This is not a standard configuration but I thought I'd ask if they could double up the cut outs. It was no problem and it arrived in 3 days and is a perfect fit!

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post #473 of 1151 Old 06-14-2010, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I've also been out shopping for flooring and carpets. Here is just a few of the samples I brought home (many are familiar to folks around here LOL). There really isn't a huge selection of carpets suitable for a HT.



My wife and I are really partial to this one. It's called "First Star II" from Carpet One's own brand. The thing is it's 100% wool and by far the most expensive. It has a really classy weave and an optional border that I was thinking could be used to make a runner down the stairs leading to the theater. Still getting over the sticker shock so haven't pulled the trigger yet.



Speaking of stairs, I've ordered a walnut handrail, iron ballisters and this flooring. So you can tell what my next job is going to be. It never ends..

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post #474 of 1151 Old 06-14-2010, 07:51 PM
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Subscribed! what a great build. shows that any house can do this if you can start without a basement and end up here. have you considered raising the 3rd row? i raised mine 6" and am REALLY glad i did. this allowed us to have a table height counter and regular rolling desk chairs (you can see it in my build). it is so much more comfortable than bar stools. of course, i have known people who are their most comfortable on a bar stool

great work!

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post #475 of 1151 Old 06-14-2010, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Subscribed! what a great build. shows that any house can do this if you can start without a basement and end up here. have you considered raising the 3rd row? i raised mine 6" and am REALLY glad i did. this allowed us to have a table height counter and regular rolling desk chairs (you can see it in my build). it is so much more comfortable than bar stools. of course, i have known people who are their most comfortable on a bar stool

great work!

greg

Hi Greg, thanks for stopping by. Your build was one of my sources of inspiration -- I'm glad to see you really finish it off.

I did think about yet another level for the bar about 12 months ago when I was finalizing the floor heights but was worried about all the up/down steps. The bar is already on the "riser" which extends over the entire rear half of the room so I was planning on a counter height (36") bar. I've seen some reasonably comfortable seats that could work (have some in my kitchen). Since the bar is immediately behind the 2nd row this height should be sufficient. Although I started with a detailed plan I'm really never sure until I start building... actually while I'm waiting for my stair parts to arrive I might frame out the bar tomorrow...

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post #476 of 1151 Old 06-14-2010, 09:55 PM
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i think i am "finished" but i never put in my star ceiling. i have a channel in my GE intended for it but never executed. your approach is really got me thinking again...

we had a similar situation to yours. my door opened into the 2nd level "riser" which was the back half of our room and there was no easy way to change that. what i did was to only raise the area behind the counter by 6" then use a 30" counter rather than a 36". i guess i don't like my feet dangling when i sit where others probably don't care.

i love the maple. can't wait to see it with the accents on it. One of the nicest things i ever built was maple trimmed with brazilian cherry and bloodwood. cherry has such great contrast with other woods.

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post #477 of 1151 Old 06-14-2010, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

It was really exhausting work finishing the soffit in place and there was several times I wished I have purchased pre-finished maple ply...

This is invaluable info to me. I could never dream to approach your craftmanship. Knowing this was a bear for you makes me even more convinced that I need to hire this type of work out (even though I won't get your same finish level).

Amazing soffits!!!

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post #478 of 1151 Old 06-14-2010, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indygreg View Post

i think i am "finished" but i never put in my star ceiling. i have a channel in my GE intended for it but never executed. your approach is really got me thinking again...

we had a similar situation to yours. my door opened into the 2nd level "riser" which was the back half of our room and there was no easy way to change that. what i did was to only raise the area behind the counter by 6" then use a 30" counter rather than a 36". i guess i don't like my feet dangling when i sit where others probably don't care.

i love the maple. can't wait to see it with the accents on it. One of the nicest things i ever built was maple trimmed with brazilian cherry and bloodwood. cherry has such great contrast with other woods.

greg

Greg, I see what you are suggesting about the height but I think in my case it would be awkward to have the additional step up directly in front of my entrance which is much further back than in your room (my room is also a far bit narrower). I'll eyeball it again before I frame the bar.

I haven't seen any other builds with contrasting woods which is in part which I choose to do it. I picked maple and walnut although I went a little soft (fearing reflections) and warmed the maple a lot. The biggest decision now is whether to make my own moldings. I'm drawn to simple profiles that make home shaping possible but also like the thought of a big delivery of molding an a few days of fitting.

You probably read my write up on the star ceiling construction -- I'm very happy with how it turned out and wouldn't change a thing. One thing to note on my choice of Metal Halide illuminator is that it cannot be dimmed. This wasn't an issue for me but just a heads up.

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post #479 of 1151 Old 06-14-2010, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Audixium View Post

This is invaluable info to me. I could never dream to approach your craftmanship. Knowing this was a bear for you makes me even more convinced that I need to hire this type of work out (even though I won't get your same finish level).

Amazing soffits!!!

To be honest I don't really know what I'm doing but I do want the feeling of pride of building the whole theater myself. Before you throw in the towel you should check out what is available at your local hardwood store. Your design has a huge amount of flat maple panels. So long as you are happy with the color of the pre-finish it would be the way to go. As an FYI the single sided pre-finished sheets were no more expensive than the double sided "CC" sheets I used and the finish was bulletproof.

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post #480 of 1151 Old 06-15-2010, 07:25 AM
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Great job Moggie. I'd love to see that wood finish in person!
I'm with you on the 12-2 wiring, but glad I did it now that it's all said and done.
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