Saga of the "Old Vic" - Page 20 - AVS Forum
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post #571 of 1145 Old 09-17-2010, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

Thank you Moggie, That explains it perfectly..

How much do you think the rear subs contributed to smoothing out the model response? Did you take measurements with and without the rears in action? I ran wiring for additional subs on the rear and sides for "Just in case".. but I'm starting to believe that I will find they will be a necessity in the rear at a min.

I did take single sub measurements before all the treatment was in but it was with no door which may have (favorably) made things better. However I misplaced them! I really need to be very systematic and try a few things to see what will work out best. bpape did suggest to me to manually EQ (not audyssey) and to have to two different EQ settings -- one for just a couple of folks listening to music at the front row and another for a compromise "full house" HT mode. When I get inspired I'll test a bunch of approaches again and file the results under sensible names this time. The problem is that you can easily sink an entire day into moving mics around and averaging results

The front/rear sub is one of the suggested good starting layouts and having the rear sub at least gives you some tweaking options since moving that IB beast is not an option. I'm not convinced you need it though. I'm sure I'll post some results before you finish your theater

One thing that I'm sure about is that the QRD diffusers have made a positive difference to the surround sound.

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Since my room is on the short side for length, 2 rows would have put one in the middle and one aganist the rear wall, with the second row only being 2 seats wide, or non symmetric, because of the door location, + I would have had to go with a smaller screen. None of the options seemed appealing and I Figured that 90% of the time there would never be more than the 4 of us in the room so I said screw the second row. Hopefully with this layout I'll end up with 4 "Good" seats, and possibly a bar behind. (although clearance for a bar and seating is still tight back there)

Personally I like the idea of a back bar. Even if the sound quality is not as good I can see using it to eat a late dinner whilst the family are watching a movie.

With only 4 seats you could get something a little classier (with more size options) than Berks. Don't get me wrong they are fantastic value but not as well made as my living room sofa.

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Hope the knee is'nt causing too much pain. Have they scheduled your surgery yet?

Brad

Not yet but soon I hope.

PS Quit reading AVS and get back to your build will you!

My "Old Vic" Theater Build
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post #572 of 1145 Old 09-18-2010, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

PS Quit reading AVS and get back to your build will you!

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post #573 of 1145 Old 09-18-2010, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Hi Tony,

It would be interesting to find out what compromises the expert professional HT builders make when building a multi-row theater.. Placement will always be an issue in such a room and effective bass trapping is not practical below 40hz in a home sized room.

As far as ground loop elimination I assume you have read this excellent primer by Bill Lummis? There really isn't a set process to follow other than to try to identify the source of the problem through elimination: start unplugging until the problem goes away and try to figure out a solution from there. Remember that not all hum problems are ground loops (running unbalanced signal cables next to power for example). Also some problems may be very tough to fix especially if you are using different power outlets for different components (sub with built in amp is a classic example of that). I've had problems when connecting my cable feed in the past until I fixed the broken grounding where it enters the house. My most recent problem was fixed by creating grounding straps for my two UPS/conditioner supplies and pre/pro and using the straps to ground each unit to the rack (so the massive structure of the rack is the common ground point). Can you describe your problem in a little more detail and where your various components are plugged in?

Thanks for the link, I had not read that before. I may end up methodically following his instructions. For now, I can get the hum to go away under three conditions. First, unplugging the XLR cable to the sub amp will eliminate it. Then, using a cheater plug on either the projector or the sub amp will do it. Currently, I'm using the cheater plug on the sub amp. It's a cheap peace of equipment and noone would ever touch it except myself. I have on order a ground loop hum eliminater that goes inline on the XLR sub cable. Hoping that does the trick. It's only been noticable since changing over to the LaScalas. They're 104db sensative, and it shows all the warts.

Thanks for the info on your carpet. I'll try and find a local source to get a first hand look at it. It may be a real possibility for my room.

The "Twinseltown" Theater
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post #574 of 1145 Old 09-28-2010, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I haven't let my blown knee stop me. Actually it did for a few days but then I had an MRI and visited the surgeon and it was clear I needed surgery to fit it. Knowing that surgery was imminent I decided I couldn't possibly make it any worse so got back to my shop and continued work on the Old Vic albeit a little slower than usual and with a limp and bottle of Advil

I tided up a lot of little details including adding custom wall plates to all the A/V outlets. These included 12gauge connections under the second row and front of the riser row for possible butt kickers and a HDMI, s-video, composite video, L & R phono on the riser for aux hookup, SVGA and a couple of cat 5 hookups behind the bar and IR/cat5 hookups behind the screen.



I also added the now popular screen back lighting -- I wired one of my Grafik Eye zones behind the screen so just mounted a cheap strip to the floor and 5 small halogen spots. I plan on using these lights in an automated sequence to increase the drama before a movie showing but they are also activated when I select my "Music" scene on the GE.




The larger job was to fit all the wall molding and fabricmate panel track. I finished the molding prior to fitting with an 18gauge brad nailer. I put an ever so light smear of construction adhesive on the back of the molding to allow me to use minimal nails. Where I needed to join molding together (like the steps) I used pocket screws on the rear and then did a quick re-finishing step prior to fitting. I also found that the best way to fasten the fabric mate track is with the upholstery stapler. I've seen people use crown staplers but this caused the track to shatter.

I'm really happy with the choice of maple and walnut -- the light maple reveal is a subtle touch but I think it adds some dimension to the trim and ties in with the ceiling. I also just love walnut and lucked out with a couple of the pieces which have a fantastic burl. I probably should have saved those pieces for the projector hush box. Oh well.

I'm a couple of pieces of molding and about a dozen frabricmate tracks short. Not bad for a 30 second hand waving estimate...

You'll notice the GOM mulberry anchorage fabric in one of the pics, precisely the color I turned away from a few months ago but it's now back as a candidate again. What do you think? Any other color/fabric suggestions for the main (center) wall panels?



Finally the door really is becoming invisible. I still need to extend the handle to the new thickness of the door. The white track on the door sides is a different profile (fabric wraps around the door edge) and only available in white -- I used a permanent marker to blacken the thin edge so no one will know.



Surgery on Friday then a couple of days recuperating with the back light speakers playing some more tunes , then back to the next batch of molding which should give the ceiling the same treatment as the walls...

Ciao


PS special note to RazorTT -- I have my Xantech IR repeater stuff so I'll let you know how that works with the Grafik Eye.

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post #575 of 1145 Old 09-28-2010, 10:15 PM
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That baffle wall is so clean, shame to cover it up. But I'm sure the real front wall covering will take it up another notch.

That walnut really does look sweet, esp the figured corner piece.
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post #576 of 1145 Old 09-28-2010, 10:27 PM
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The moulding looks great moggie!! Top notch as usual. I like how you have put the ir sensor into a wall plate. Am looking forward to hearing that the xantech works perfectly .

Good luck with your surgery on Friday!

Cheers,
Simon
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post #577 of 1145 Old 09-29-2010, 06:50 AM
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Hope you have a speedy recovery. At least you have a functional room to relax in while recovering.

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post #578 of 1145 Old 09-29-2010, 07:06 AM
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Excellent work again Moggie. Hope the surgery goes well and you aren't laid up too long.

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post #579 of 1145 Old 09-29-2010, 07:31 AM
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Moggie,

Good luck with the surgery!

Nice progress update - this is really going to be sharp. One question (I may have missed it earlier in the thread); Are you going with a curved screen?, or is that a camera/lens phenomena?

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post #580 of 1145 Old 09-29-2010, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys, thanks for the well wishes..

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

Are you going with a curved screen?, or is that a camera/lens phenomena?

Yes the screen is going to be curved (41' radius) and hence the screen wall matches. I honestly don't think the curve is really necessary but I committed to it at the beginning (for it's minor CIH benefit and coolness factor) and I'm really stubborn when it comes to changing my mind. Believe it or not I've been planning on how I'm going to build it for months now. What I want to do is use curved extruded aluminum with the screen material attached and then a curved velvet covered wooden frame with t-slot in the rear. The masking system will run in this t-slot (and the pulley wires will naturally stay captive by the curve. This approach should also allow the mask to brush the screen to prevent a shadow. The big problem is trying to get the extrusion bent -- even the German vendor who advertises a bending service is "still setting up this particular operation in the US".

The screen will likely be built incrementally with the masking system built last. I'm comfortable with the design/build of the motion controllers but I know this will be a time sink so will definitely be the very last thing I do.


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At least you have a functional room to relax in while recovering.

You bet! Despite not being quite satisfied with the bass calibration yet, this room is by far the best sounding that I've owned. It's been very hot lately and the air conditioned space is a perfect hideaway.

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post #581 of 1145 Old 09-29-2010, 09:34 AM
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Awsome looking with the lighting on the front wall!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post


You'll notice the GOM mulberry anchorage fabric in one of the pics, precisely the color I turned away from a few months ago but it's now back as a candidate again. What do you think? Any other color/fabric suggestions for the main (center) wall panels?

Mulberry looks a little pink on my monitor

For future refrence when discussing colors:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post19255657

Useless information: The color Mulberry was added to the crayola mix in 1958 and retired in 2003

You may have already seen this list of GOM fabric lines and their attenuation
http://www.bobgolds.com/GOM%20Fabric...er%20Cloth.pdf
The list appears to be a couple of years old so some of their lines were dropped and some newer ones might not appear on it, but it still lists many of the current ones.

Several appear to be as good or better than the 701 and anchorage lines for transparency, it may open up other options in your search for a fabric.

Good luck and get well soon buddy!!! I'll pop a top for ya...

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post #582 of 1145 Old 09-29-2010, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

For future refrence when discussing colors:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post19255657
Useless information: The color Mulberry was added to the crayola mix in 1958 and retired in 2003

Well that's decided then, pink is out

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Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

You may have already seen this list of GOM fabric lines and their attenuation
http://www.bobgolds.com/GOM%20Fabric...er%20Cloth.pdf
Several appear to be as good or better than the 701 and anchorage lines for transparency, it may open up other options in your search for a fabric.

Great list, no I haven't seen it before. I'll revisit the GOM line...

They told me not to drink before the op, but didn't say anything about afterwards

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post #583 of 1145 Old 09-29-2010, 10:19 AM
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Good luck getting that aluminum bent without cracks or wrinkled. I ended up having to use steel to do it right. I couldnt find anyone with the ability to bend the aluminum correctly.

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post #584 of 1145 Old 09-29-2010, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Good luck getting that aluminum bent without cracks or wrinkled. I ended up having to use steel to do it right. I couldnt find anyone with the ability to bend the aluminum correctly.

Yes it's a problem. I've found one manufacturer that will do it, but not yet in the US. Several companies that will do 100Kg or 1000 piece minimum and a few other metalwork shops who don't know what they are doing: "yeah, I can put that through my pipe bender". I'd rather not use steel if I can help it due to weight. One possibility is to use straight extrusion to support a curved wooden screen support. I haven't given up on the aluminum yet...

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post #585 of 1145 Old 09-29-2010, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quick update. Today I managed to get a few lower wall panels covered in fabric. I think I'm going to like this fabricmate system - it creates a very tidy, wrinkle free raised panel that's as tight as a drum:



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post #586 of 1145 Old 09-29-2010, 07:04 PM
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Stunning as usual Moggie!
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post #587 of 1145 Old 09-29-2010, 07:30 PM
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Moggie - I have not visited in a while, the room is looking really awesome. Great work. The trim turned out fantastic. Is that walnut? Did you mill it yourself?

Robert
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post #588 of 1145 Old 09-29-2010, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Yes it's a problem. I've found one manufacturer that will do it, but not yet in the US. Several companies that will do 100Kg or 1000 piece minimum and a few other metalwork shops who don't know what they are doing: "yeah, I can put that through my pipe bender". I'd rather not use steel if I can help it due to weight. One possibility is to use straight extrusion to support a curved wooden screen support. I haven't given up on the aluminum yet...

Call Ruben at SMX. They defiantly can hook you up with a great curved screen!


The woodwork and FabricMate panels look AWESOME!

Follow my build here: Harvest Ridge Theater
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post #589 of 1145 Old 09-29-2010, 08:01 PM
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The fabric looks great! The corner shot with the carpet, fabric and moulding just looks sensational! Can't wait to see the rest of the room done!

Simon
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post #590 of 1145 Old 09-30-2010, 06:16 AM
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WOW is all I can say:e ek:

Adam

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post #591 of 1145 Old 09-30-2010, 06:42 AM
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Dag Moggie!! You never cease to impress. I love the look your getting and how everything is turning out.

We should start a "My favorite AVS Theater Build" sticky were we the participants/enthusiasts get to post who our favorites are. You would be up there for me, along with KNKKNK, though hes been quiet lately...
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post #592 of 1145 Old 09-30-2010, 07:23 AM
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+1 on that

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post #593 of 1145 Old 09-30-2010, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys, thanks for the compliments it really energizes me to keep going!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_S View Post

Moggie - I have not visited in a while, the room is looking really awesome. Great work. The trim turned out fantastic. Is that walnut? Did you mill it yourself?

Robert

Robert, yes I'm a glutton for punishment. Except for some of the stair railing parts in the entrance I've milled everything and frustrated the garbage men with many bags of wood dust!! The trim is walnut with maple as a reveal and for the bulk of the soffits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by carboranadum View Post

Call Ruben at SMX. They defiantly can hook you up with a great curved screen!

No doubt! They certainly make a great product but I'm committed to DIY. Actually I did email SMX a while back to check out their prices to see if I could be persuaded but I never got a reply from them -- I guess they don't need the business

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post #594 of 1145 Old 09-30-2010, 08:07 AM
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Moggie,

I know that aluminum is an attractive product due to its light weight, but have you considered the steel. A steel frame would be easy for a local fabricator and the weight itself shouldn't be to bad. It's what Ruben 1st made his screen and someone else's with.

I started to look into it locally but before really digging into it I saw some DIY Wood screens and decided to give it a go. If it turned out badly I would have pursued the other option, but since it turned out really nice I haven't looked back. The nice thing is that I can easily remove the screen since it's simply held in place by clamps. I think this helps to stabilize the wood as well, no warping issues.

If you go with the steel frame you can add screen spline to the metal frame and attach the screen material that way.

Just a thought.
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post #595 of 1145 Old 09-30-2010, 11:48 AM
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Great job Moggie! Love the screen wall lighting and the trim is perfectly done. Wish I had budget left for fabricmate

The WAF and I got the full line of red hued Anchorage swatches from GOM. We liked the Poppy best (at least in terms of our color scheme). If you're leaning towards some shade of red and ruled out Mulberry, you may want to consider getting a swatch of Poppy just for kicks....I think it goes good with the darker wood.

After I saw you investigating the curved screen with AL, I was going to link you over to mtbdudex's screen build but saw you've already found it
Good luck with that.
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post #596 of 1145 Old 09-30-2010, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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oman321, I'd forgotten about your curved screen build. I studied it some time ago. Certainly wood/steel would work its just that the aluminium (oops British spelling slipped there) channel is very convenient for mounting the rollers and pulleys I'm going to need for the masking system. I'm still not quite ready to build the screen, just doing some parts planning in preparation.

Floyd, thanks, maybe mtbdudex can offer me some avenues for the aluminum since he has research this for a while.

I really haven't ruled out the mulberry color, I just don't like to call it PINK Actually it's quite a nice color. However, I just requested a few more samples from GOM including the Poppy color...

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post #597 of 1145 Old 09-30-2010, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Robert, yes I'm a glutton for punishment. Except for some of the stair railing parts in the entrance I've milled everything and frustrated the garbage men with many bags of wood dust!! The trim is walnut with maple as a reveal and for the bulk of the soffits.

Sometimes I'll spread a bit of the sawdust on my lawn. As it decomposes it provides some nice nutrients to the grass.

Incredible HT Moggie. I am stunned by your ability to put a plan together and execute it with nearly flawless craftmanship. I have met several people that have one skill or the other. Very, very few men have both. As for me? I have neither!

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #598 of 1145 Old 09-30-2010, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Sometimes I'll spread a bit of the sawdust on my lawn. As it decomposes it provides some nice nutrients to the grass.

Incredible HT Moggie. I am stunned by your ability to put a plan together and execute it with nearly flawless craftmanship. I have met several people that have one skill or the other. Very, very few men have both. As for me? I have neither!

Personally I'm convinced that he's just really good with Photoshop.

Edit: ick on the pink.
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post #599 of 1145 Old 10-01-2010, 09:39 AM
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Quote:


I also just love walnut and lucked out with a couple of the pieces which have a fantastic burl. I probably should have saved those pieces for the projector hush box. Oh well.

Figured walnut can be absolutely gorgeous. Take a look at these:





This is not my work (I wish it was!). Here's a link to the thread on another forum: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=86340.0

Quote:


You'll notice the GOM mulberry anchorage fabric in one of the pics, precisely the color I turned away from a few months ago but it's now back as a candidate again. What do you think? Any other color/fabric suggestions for the main (center) wall panels?

I don't care for the mulberry color. It is so eye-grabbing that I would be concerned it would overwhelm the room and divert attention away from the subtle details (like your maple reveals). Given your carpet and the color of your walnut trim, I would be thinking about a gold (not yellow) color, or maybe a dark red (not purple).

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post #600 of 1145 Old 10-01-2010, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dwightp View Post

Figured walnut can be absolutely gorgeous.

Agree with you there - I'm big fan of crotch.

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