Saga of the "Old Vic" - Page 23 - AVS Forum
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post #661 of 1145 Old 11-29-2010, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rader View Post

What kind of door did you end up getting? Or did you also build the door yourself?
Awesome work... Everyone else has said it, but it's worth repeating.

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Originally Posted by FlyingCheese View Post

What are the dimensions of that door? Looks like a real beast... I really like how you've blended that in with the rest of the room - I'm looking to do something very similar.

AWESOME work!! Your craftsmanship is superior!! I can only hope mine turns out half as nice.

The door is pretty straightforward. It's started life as a 1 3/4" plain, paint grade, pre-hung external solid core door just like you can order from the big box stores. The external grade will ensure you get a heavy duty frame and seals around the sides and top. On the inside is 1" of treatment behind the fabric (diffusors up top, cotton on lower half) and the hardwood trim. On the outside I'm going to add an additional 1/2" for added mass so right now there is just a temporary spacer for the handle. I routed in a drop down seal to the bottom as mentioned in an earlier post. Finally to accommodate the additional thickness I extended the handle and replaced the hinges with ball bearing wide-throw hinges. The hinges were special ordered on-line since they are not common but effectively move the pivot point out past the fabric wall panels.

The only other thing I remember doing is to plane a small angle on the non hinge edge to ensure consistent gap as the, now 3" thick, door closes and extending the stop for a better seal. Oh, and the frame was well caulked to the surrounding drywall to maximize sound proofing.

My observation is that this door performs remarkably well in sound isolation but it is still clearly the weakest link in my build. I'll decide after I built my second decorative sliding door in the entrance whether the extra mass or seals are necessary.

Let me know if you have any more questions and thanks for the kudos it really helps to motivate me

My "Old Vic" Theater Build
My 8 year old daughter: "are contractors the people that mess up your house for money?"
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post #662 of 1145 Old 12-01-2010, 08:23 AM
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Just perused this entire thread. Words can not express how much I applaud your effort. I read maybe 20%-25% of th posts. Of particular interest to me is the IB sub, and the integration of the room treatments.

You are to be commended. Just an unbelievable amount of effort.

Good luck

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Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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post #663 of 1145 Old 12-01-2010, 10:57 AM
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Of particular interest to me is the IB sub

Since you expressed interest, I did an IB sub too. It's relatively cheap if you can install it. I installed mine in new construction, so it was easy. 8 AE-IB15 woofers came to $1,000 and a Behringer EP2500 was $225 all shipping included. Add to that a little wood, wire, nuts and bolts and you have something that feels like the house is gonna come down! You don't need butt-kickers!
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post #664 of 1145 Old 12-03-2010, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally got covers on the step lights. The issue was that the covers I wanted to use were leftover’s from a landscaping project and the hole alignment conflicted with the mounting of the light assembly. The solution was to epoxy some all-thread into some coupling nuts so I could both screw the light in and then fit the covers into the same holes. The nuts also created the correct standoff for the carpet.




The other thing I’ve been working on (and spending money) is my DIY masking screen…

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post #665 of 1145 Old 12-03-2010, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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It is with great trepidation and mixed feelings that I’m launching into my screen building. The reason for the emotions is that I am so desperate to watch some movies in my HT since I’ve hardly seen any since I started my build and the movie-catch up is going to take weeks.

Anyway, I haven’t come this far to give up on my screen plan, so here is the first installment.

The plan:
130” wide curved AT screen with integrated (within the frame border) horizontal masking with full independent left/right masking control. The goals I’ve set are that I want to create a professional job that is less than 4” thick so that it disappears into the screen wall frame, the mechanism needs to be simple to reduce build and setup time and the budget should be around $1600. Possible….??? We shall see.

After numerous design scribbles I realized that building a curved screen complicated what really should be a fairly simple process for a flat screen. Some of the problems include attachment to the screen fabric along the arc whilst allowing a very close fitting mask, bending of any linear slide mechanism for the mask, keeping a simple drive mechanism that can stay within the 4” thickness goal.

The basic construction approach is shown here:



The goal is to leverage the precise repeatability of the new Somfy ILT motors and to use a constant spring to provide closing tension. I.e. no pulleys, no wires, just the KISS approach. Of course the devil is in the details and I’m under no illusions that a cheap, curved and smooth linear motion track that doesn’t get stuck is the key. The plan is to have the mask ride right next to the screen fabric (to prevent shadows) and to have a minimal gap at top and bottom for the leading edge of the mask.

Step 1. I wanted to be sure that the size was going to work, particularly the location of the leading edge of the mask at the prime aspect ratios. The leading edge of the mask will be solid and I didn’t want this to fall in the direct path of the tweeters.



Step 2 was to get the horizontal frame members bent to my calculated 42’ radius. My preference was to use an extruded aluminum frame with various t-slot cutouts for convenient attachment but I completely failed to find somebody to bend these or to purchase them pre-bent. The problem with bending aluminum is that it is difficult to keep the extrusion profile intact without the correct bending die or by bending as the extrusion is made.

My fallback was to opt for a steel frame. Aluminum would have been nice and lighter but one advantage of steel is that it is much easier to bend and weld. So off to my local steel yard to purchase the steel and to get them to run a couple of pieces through their Eagle rolling machine. Cha-ching: $320 including bending.

Once home I cut the pieces to size and welded up the frame, taking care to ensure it stayed square. The primitive rolling machine the metal yard used did get the radius curve correct but gave me a slight warp which I needed to work out during the welding process. You can see a laser level in the second photo keeping me honest.



Once welded it was outside to do a bit of cleanup of the welds on the inside edge (the side that I plan on using a cunning plan to mount the screen fabric). In fact the screen attachment plan is so secretive that I don’t know it myself yet…



Then a coat of primer. You can see the cleaned up weld to create a perfectly smooth surface.



It was precisely at this point that I panicked and questioned what the heck I was doing and call up Jason Turk at AVS to see if I could get a 130” non-masking SMX screen cheap. No luck. A few beers later I calmed down and got my wife to lift this monster back into the garage. Then I panicked again… what if this wouldn’t fit through the theater doorway? Luckily, I think it will simply due to my fortunate door arrangement (alignment).



I then spent the rest of the day on-line ordering parts:
2x Somfy Sonesse LT50 ILT motors: $740 (yikes!)
RS485 interface: $60
2” tubes and roller blind mounting h/w: $100
Grommets + tools, rubber rings: $32
USB to RS485 interface: $40
6061 aluminum bar, t-tracks, etc: $70
SeymorAV CenterStage XD fabric: $280
Total: $1,322

Plus steel, total to date: $1,622. Well, that’s blown the budget already so I might as well give up... Seriously, other than some miscellaneous fabric, misc hardware, some scraps of steel plate and some MDF (most of which I have lying around) I think I have all the raw materials I need.

I should probably explain my choice of the expensive Somfy motors a little. There is no way to get around the fact that these are expensive, but I know from experience how much time a motor control system takes to build when I converted my home mill/lathe to CNC. The neatness of the Somfy system, the quietness of their Sonesse motor (44 dbA), the ability to program 16 intermediate stopping positions, repeatable encoder based positioning and the fact that the RS485 control bus can easily interface to IR/RF/Z-wave, etc makes this an obvious cost/time trade-off to me. If anybody is curious I’d suggest you read up on the ILT line of motors and their “SDN” control bus. I briefly looked at the SMX masking system functionality and this motor and controllers can do everything that can do…

To be continued…

My "Old Vic" Theater Build
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post #666 of 1145 Old 12-03-2010, 03:12 PM
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I'll be watching your screen/masking progress closely - I've got something similar in mind when I get to that point...Good luck and post what you learn!

Please check out my FlyingCheese Theater build thread. I need followers to answer my questions!!
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post #667 of 1145 Old 12-03-2010, 03:12 PM
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great stuff Moggie!! I had abandoned a motorised masking system, but I'll definitely be keeping an eye on your progress. We might have something else I end up stealing from you
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post #668 of 1145 Old 12-03-2010, 04:06 PM
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Moggie, you better be careful. If your screen comes out as good as it looks so far, you may end up forming a screen company and then you will never have time to watch movies!
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post #669 of 1145 Old 12-04-2010, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tjambro View Post

Moggie, you better be careful. If your screen comes out as good as it looks so far, you may end up forming a screen company and then you will never have time to watch movies!

Now that's an idea, but a crowded market these days don't you think

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post #670 of 1145 Old 12-04-2010, 05:57 PM
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Now that's an idea, but a crowded market these days don't you think

Yes, but my money's on you!
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post #671 of 1145 Old 12-06-2010, 04:29 PM
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Moggie.

Your theater is looking awesome. Been a while since I have seen your progress.

Did your subs end up aligning vertically in the front of the room to the back of the room or are they varied in height?
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post #672 of 1145 Old 12-06-2010, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Moggie.

Your theater is looking awesome. Been a while since I have seen your progress.

Did your subs end up aligning vertically in the front of the room to the back of the room or are they varied in height?
Hi Mario,

Glad to see you back. My rear subs are about 6" higher than the fronts but are not quite as tall so they align pretty closely. I'm not sure how important that is, I just placed then at the center of the rear wall in a convenient location. I will say that having them has allowed a great deal of flexibility in EQing my bass although I needed to do it manually -- the Audyssey EQ1 I purchased didn't work out.

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post #673 of 1145 Old 12-07-2010, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Whilst I'm waiting for all my screen parts to arrive I thought I'd fix the last remaining automation problem I have with my rack which is that two of the amplifiers do not have a remote trigger ability. To solve this I built a dual 20A outlet with remote triggers. The design is based on a couple of 30A relays from Omron (like this).

The problem is that these relays require 160mA to drive them so cannot be driven directly from most 12v trigger outputs on AV equipment. The solution was to build a simple buffer to allow easy connection. Whilst I was at it I added an additional 'dry contact' trigger, a way to switch both outlets from a single trigger and LED indicators. The schematic is shown below:

The components are non critical and the values shown were to work with the transistors I had at hand. I used a old wall wart to provide power. The max draw on the triggers is 1.8mA per trigger. Contact me if you are interested in more specifics.



The whole thing is built in a cast aluminum case. One thing I overlooked with the simple circuit design was the fact that the 'dry contact' jacks could not be grounded. Rather and re-engineer the circuit which was already finished, I cheated and mounted these on a plastic insert.





Here it is in my equipment closet -- would you believe me if I said it worked first time?


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post #674 of 1145 Old 12-07-2010, 06:24 PM
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Knowing your attention to detail, I have no problem believing that it worked first time

Great stuff Moggie!

Cheers,
Simon
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post #675 of 1145 Old 12-07-2010, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Whilst I'm waiting for all my screen parts to arrive I thought I'd fix the last remaining automation problem I have with my rack which is that two of the amplifiers do not have a remote trigger ability. To solve this I built a dual 20A outlet with remote triggers. The design is based on a couple of 30A relays from Omron

Very impressive. I have the same problem with 4 remote amps and 3 remote electronic crossovers. But I took the "wimp" way out compared to you. I used Insteon appliance modules controlled through URC MX-6000/MSC-400 macros. I think the current draw when they are turned on is over the Insteon rating, but it's worked great for 3 years. I think if you put too much current through a mechanical relay, the contacts will eventually weld together (be unable to turn the load off). We'll see... so far so good.

I'd show you my equipment closet but then I'd have to crawl under a rock and die.
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post #676 of 1145 Old 12-07-2010, 06:35 PM
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Looking great. I bet you can't wait to watch your first movie in there?

BTW, My DIY screen is going to be something like 220lbs!

My build thread

My 8 x RE XXX 18" Subwoofers, IB build
Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

Do you know what Nemesis means?

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post #677 of 1145 Old 12-07-2010, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post

Very impressive. I have the same problem with 4 remote amps and 3 remote electronic crossovers. But I took the "wimp" way out compared to you. I used Insteon appliance modules controlled through URC MX-6000/MSC-400 macros. I think the current draw when they are turned on is over the Insteon rating, but it's worked great for 3 years. I think if you put too much current through a mechanical relay, the contacts will eventually weld together (be unable to turn the load off). We'll see... so far so good.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Since many of my components were already triggered from the preamp I wanted to continue with that approach. You are right about relay contacts welding together although the worse problem is that they get too hot and burn .. But after three years of testing that probably isn't going to happen.

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I'd show you my equipment closet but then I'd have to crawl under a rock and die.

I get so frustrated with messy wiring, however, now that I have everything neat and tidy and tied together I get frustrated trying to trace a wire. You can't win

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post #678 of 1145 Old 12-07-2010, 07:01 PM
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I get so frustrated with messy wiring, however, now that I have everything neat and tidy and tied together I get frustrated trying to trace a wire. You can't win

I was going to comment on the clean wires too, but I forgot. What I am doing is installing colored wires so I know where everything is going.

My build thread

My 8 x RE XXX 18" Subwoofers, IB build
Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

Do you know what Nemesis means?

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post #679 of 1145 Old 12-07-2010, 07:06 PM
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I was going to comment on the clean wires too, but I forgot. What I am doing is installing colored wires so I know where everything is going.

Ya' know... you could also just label the ends. Wouldn't that be nice? I never do. But YOU can.
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post #680 of 1145 Old 12-07-2010, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I like color coded Unfortunately too many of mine are black. I've labeled the important ones, but I made all the IR connects and triggers out of the same cable and ran them together. That's what was confusing me.

JapanDave, 220lbs screen. Wow that is really a monster. Is it going to be curved?

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post #681 of 1145 Old 12-08-2010, 01:08 AM
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Ya' know... you could also just label the ends. Wouldn't that be nice? I never do. But YOU can.

Ha, labeling cable's... What is the world coming too. You won't catch me doing that, that would be too much work.

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I like color coded Unfortunately too many of mine are black. I've labeled the important ones, but I made all the IR connects and triggers out of the same cable and ran them together. That's what was confusing me.

JapanDave, 220lbs screen. Wow that is really a monster. Is it going to be curved?

Yes sir, it certainly is. I also am going to do masking job similar to yours.

My build thread

My 8 x RE XXX 18" Subwoofers, IB build
Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

Do you know what Nemesis means?

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post #682 of 1145 Old 12-08-2010, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes sir, it certainly is. I also am going to do masking job similar to yours.

Care to share your design ideas to help me out I'd be interested in your thoughts on linear motion track. Currently I have 4x 6' lengths of generic t-track. These bend (spring) quite easily to the moderate 40' curve I'm using. Over the next few days I'm going to fabricate a slide to fit the track but I'm realizing that it might have been easier if I had a slightly larger track. The little slide needs an attachment for the leading edge of the mask and an attachment for the tension spring and it's going to be a tight fit.

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post #683 of 1145 Old 12-08-2010, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Care to share your design ideas to help me out I'd be interested in your thoughts on linear motion track. Currently I have 4x 6' lengths of generic t-track. These bend (spring) quite easily to the moderate 40' curve I'm using. Over the next few days I'm going to fabricate a slide to fit the track but I'm realizing that it might have been easier if I had a slightly larger track. The little slide needs an attachment for the leading edge of the mask and an attachment for the tension spring and it's going to be a tight fit.

I would have to whip up a drawing on sketchup, can you wait a day or to while I get it done. All the plans are in my head at the moment. The frame for screen however is drawn up on paper and I am begining the fabrication right now. I will see if I can get the plans posted up.

My build thread

My 8 x RE XXX 18" Subwoofers, IB build
Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

Do you know what Nemesis means?

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post #684 of 1145 Old 12-08-2010, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

I would have to whip up a drawing on sketchup, can you wait a day or to while I get it done. All the plans are in my head at the moment. The frame for screen however is drawn up on paper and I am begining the fabrication right now. I will see if I can get the plans posted up.

That would be cool if you could. It's always good to see other designs to improve your own. Had deliveries from FedEx, UPS and USPS today, all screen bits. I should be able to make progress this weekend.

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post #685 of 1145 Old 12-09-2010, 01:23 PM
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Hello - I have just found this wonderful thread. It is absolutely inspiring.

I have been studying your QRD build. One question if you please, what kind of fence do you have on your table saw? It looks rather vital to the process.

Thanks.

-




Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?
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post #686 of 1145 Old 12-09-2010, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

Hello - I have just found this wonderful thread. It is absolutely inspiring.

I have been studying your QRD build. One question if you please, what kind of fence do you have on your table saw? It looks rather vital to the process.

Thanks.

Welcome to my photo journal...

My fence is made by Jointech. It's called the SawTrain. There is no reason why you couldn't use a normal fence, you just need to be accurate. I love the SawTrain and have my table saw set up with a routing table both ends and use the SawTrain for everything.

BTW the QRD diffusers really work although I wish I had more room to make them all 4" deep.

Cheers.

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post #687 of 1145 Old 12-14-2010, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm still waiting on the roller tubes and motors but have made a dent in the rest of the screen/masking build so I thought I'd share.

First job was to complete the screen material mounting plan. Since I'm attaching the fabric to concave face I needed a way to ensure a consistent curve in the surface. To do this I drilled and tapped a 2" x 1/8" piece of aluminum strip to the face making sure the holes accounted for the fabric thickness. These scrips will also serve a couple of other functions: (i) stiffen the steel frame, (ii) add the desired standoff for the frame, (iii) provide a mounting lip for the wood frame.

I made some mounting brackets out of angle iron and welded to the frame. I also added "wings" at either end to carry the rollers and motors. In retrospect I should have just continued the horizontal tubes. After the welding was complete to reduce the possibility of resonance I filled the frame with expanding foam. I drilled a few holes on the backside and squirted the foam. It quickly spread out of every little hole which at least proved it was working although it was extremely messy.



After cleaning up the foam and a coat of paint I performed a trial fitment of the SeymourAV Center Stage XD fabric. You can see the approach in this picture. Basically the fabric was cut on the greatest angle I could get about 1 3/4" larger than the frame outline. I borrowed Seymour's approach and fitted grommets on 6" centers then used silicon o-rings to pulled the fabric tight around the frame. The o-rings attached to a line of self tapping screws on the backside (I cut up some plastic pipe to eliminate the sharp thread of the screws and to ensure consistent height.



You can see that even with about 60% of the o-rings fitted and without the aluminum strips the fabric followed the curve rather well. The placement of the threaded holes (for aluminum strip) were marked and then an additional over-sized hole was punched so next time the aluminum strips can be fitted after the fabric is fully stretched.



With the frame finished it was time for the screen border (which is going to house the masking system). I used the curved steel as a template to glue two pieces of (pre-routed) baseboard together for a total thickness of 1 3/8". The inside profile channels from left to right are (i) channel for bungy cord providing a constant spring, (ii) channel for the linear motion track, (iii) recess for fasting the velvet covering. The flat between (ii) and (iii) will have a 1/32" thick piece of UHMW tape to provide the surface on which the mask will glide.



I'm making the linear motion track out of t-track and some custom made glides. The glides were machined out of Delrin, a pretty slippery and easy to machine plastic. I experimented a bit with the shape and length and found 2 1/2" long provided enough glide surface without the possibility of binding when the track is curved. Each glide will be tapped so the leading edge of the mask can be attached.



Here's a video showing how well the slide works.

Finally, perhaps this last picture will convey what I'm trying to do with the border? If not it should become clear in the next update (or else I go into hiding because the attempt was a complete failure ) The idea is that the bungy cord is attached to the slide and by virtue of being under tension and pulled around in a curve will sit inside the t-track. In the center pocket the bungy will exit the track and be routed to the parallel channel. The same will occur on the other side so the bungy cords will cross in this section. The bungy channels will be sealed by being tight against the aluminum strips fitted to the steel frame.


My "Old Vic" Theater Build
My 8 year old daughter: "are contractors the people that mess up your house for money?"
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post #688 of 1145 Old 12-14-2010, 03:32 PM
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You make it look WAY too easy!
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post #689 of 1145 Old 12-14-2010, 03:40 PM
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Lookin' good. Keeping it nice and tight, as usual. Can't wait to see a video showing the finished product in action. Killer!

John
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post #690 of 1145 Old 12-14-2010, 03:47 PM
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You are in such a different league from me, it isn't even funny. My 10' wide 16:9 DIY screen isn't curved so I could get away with a simpler mounting. And "get away with" I did. Know how I mounted my AT material? Grommets? O-rings? Aluminum? Screws? Naww... I used a staple gun! At least I used 90 degree drywall corners at the edges for a nice clean corner.

BTW... haven't forgotten your kind offer. I'll PM you after the holidays.
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