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post #1 of 868 Old 03-06-2009, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I've edited this first post to include a few pictures from the first theater build...

It was a 3 year meandering journey from start to completion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shortly after completing the first theater I sold the house and relocated...

 

so.... The journey towards the Second theater begins at this page in the thread

 

 

Original post:

 

I feel like a deer in the headlights since I found this forum....

Background: Oct 2008 I started the basement built out including the Home Theater Room.... "Screen, projector and some speakers"....... how tough can it be right? Around mid Nov I decided to research 'screen size to seating distance'.. just so i could see what size screen i could fit in the room.

Thats when I found the AVSFORUM.. and discovered a world of isolation, flanking, absorbtion, risc clips, Green Glue, 2.35, 16:9, GOM, Grafik eye, reflection points, nulls, AT screens, butt shakers and bass traps.
Since then NOTHING signifigant has happend in that basement (the HT is my motivation).

Fortunatly with the discovery of this forum, I also found a wealth of information in an enviornment that "encourages" obsessive compulsive behavior on the subject of Home Theaters.

I spent the last couple of months with more than an occasional interest in alot of the builds happening on here, reading many from start to finish. Hopefully, I have managed to educate myself now to the point that I can ask educated questions. I would appreciate any feedback on my plans for moving forward (which involves moving backwards a little i think).

Below is a layout of my basement, i currently have an area that will be approx 16'8" by 18'8" with 9' ceiling dedicated to the theatre.

Here's a pick of the current status. (Notice mandatory single chair and masking tape screen.. one of the many things learned at the AVS site already)
before finding this forum i thought i was about ready for wiring..


As mentioned I now feel I need to redo some of what i have done, my current plan is to take the sawzall to the current soffit and remove it.. i want to pay some attention to sound isolation and my "New" plan includes at least a drywall, GG, drywall room envelope . (possibly even risc and Channel on the ceiling. by removing the current soffit and rebuilding inside the "Room Box" i believe i can reduce some of the flanking sounds, and use the bottom of the soffit for additional bass trap. I'm going to build another wall along the stairwell side to help reduce sound transferance and double the wall at the entry. I also plan on taking an area from the "Storage" area placing a 3' x 7' area for speaker placement behind an AT screen.

Here is an overview of my revised plan
6-8 seats, 2 rows at 11' and 17'
120-140" 2.35 AT screen
equip rack in side wall (please disregard color scheme at this time)


I am now planning to add the room behind the screen wall for the speakers
I know the speaker chamber behind the screen isnt the ideal size, conceptually i think it adds to the room from a acoustical standpoint giving me a room that is 21'6" deep in esence, but i feel symmetry and the concrete wall limits me to only about 7' wide.. one of my big questions is what does everyone think about having the L&R speakers only 7' apart and 25% inside the screen image? Do I need to rethink this? or will this work?

Any and all other suggestions/questions are more than welcome...i feel i need to nail down at least the basic room, so i can get the the point of running the elec and wiring..... I am a confident-100% DIYer but i recongize when I may be over my head..... SO HERE I AM.
Brad

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post #2 of 868 Old 03-07-2009, 06:00 AM
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Brad;
Good luck and I applaud your willingness to tear down what you've down so far.
I was 3 years+ into my basement on/off project before I "found" avsforum.

You'll get advice based on experience here.

One Q - when I looked at your plans the craft room is missing.....
Based on your thread title I was honestly interested in what you did on hers.

Don't let your wife know that I actually did build mine one as "trade-off" for my HT and all it's stuff.

Mike R,P.E. clickable DIY hot links:

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post #3 of 868 Old 03-07-2009, 06:38 AM
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Hello and welcome!

It is always nice to see another Hoosier join the fray. Us "land lubbers" are far outnumbered by those easties and westies living on the coasts. Your story is somewhat like mine, however I stumbled on this site doing research for a home theater before that fist nail was struck and it has been a maddening journey ever since.

I'll be watching your thread with interest, especially as a fellow Hoosier on his own meandering journey on his way to building a home theater.

Regards,

RTROSE


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Enjoying my "almost done" theater.
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post #4 of 868 Old 03-07-2009, 09:08 AM
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Nice start to your thread and build. As far as you speaker placement I think you will be ok with the 7' especially if you go with the 120" might be pushing it a little if you go with the 140" though not by much, you can slightly toe your speakers out to make up for it. Over in the 2:35 section their was some discussion about this a while back in paticular when it came to masking. I believe CAVX had decided to bring his speakers in towards the center so that the speakers wouldn't be blocked by masking which he was thinking of adding later on and wasn't sure if it would be AT or not. I kind of did the same thing and I am very pleased with the result.

Now let me throw one more thing at you which you didn't mention above about being introduced to when you came to AVS. Infinite Baffle, that area which your building for speakers and the space behind it, really lends itself to an infinite baffle set up. Check out Cathan's build to see how he's doing his. Good luck.


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post #5 of 868 Old 03-08-2009, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Brad;
Good luck and I applaud your willingness to tear down what you've down so far.
I was 3 years+ into my basement on/off project before I "found" avsforum.

You'll get advice based on experience here.

One Q - when I looked at your plans the craft room is missing.....
Based on your thread title I was honestly interested in what you did on hers.

Don't let your wife know that I actually did build mine one as "trade-off" for my HT and all it's stuff.


Mike;
Actually, the area designated as storage really will be partioned off (some day) to include a craft room. The thread title originated from my responses to the wife when she asks me what i have been doing "DOWN THERE". I will change the thread title after the theatre picks a name for its self.

However, as of today, and thanks to the suggestions received, the Planning and Zonning commision has officially annexed additional footage from the Storage/Craft community to be put into service for an IB Sub. Im not sure if this announcement will receive a warm welcome from the opposition.

By the way, your thread on the 130" curved screen was actually one of the concepts i had previously book marked to be incorporated in to the theatre.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

Hello and welcome!

It is always nice to see another Hoosier join the fray. Us "land lubbers" are far outnumbered by those easties and westies living on the coasts. Your story is somewhat like mine, however I stumbled on this site doing research for a home theater before that fist nail was struck and it has been a maddening journey ever since.

I'll be watching your thread with interest, especially as a fellow Hoosier on his own meandering journey on his way to building a home theater.

Regards,

RTROSE


RTROSE;

Howdy neighbor... "Meandering Journey".. great description! That is exactly how i am starting to view this endevour -- as more of a journey than a project. The amount of information/details to consider as a DIY'er can be humbling, particularly on the AV side (im more of a brick and mortor guy), right now I'm trying to break it all down to manageable pieces to "Ponder".

Stop back and keep on eye on me.. I hope to avoid adding as few "What I'd do different nextime" posts as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oman321 View Post

Nice start to your thread and build. As far as you speaker placement I think you will be ok with the 7' especially if you go with the 120" might be pushing it a little if you go with the 140" though not by much, you can slightly toe your speakers out to make up for it. Over in the 2:35 section their was some discussion about this a while back in paticular when it came to masking. I believe CAVX had decided to bring his speakers in towards the center so that the speakers wouldn't be blocked by masking which he was thinking of adding later on and wasn't sure if it would be AT or not. I kind of did the same thing and I am very pleased with the result.

Now let me throw one more thing at you which you didn't mention above about being introduced to when you came to AVS. Infinite Baffle, that area which your building for speakers and the space behind it, really lends itself to an infinite baffle set up. Check out Cathan's build to see how he's doing his. Good luck.

oman321;

Thanks for the feedback on the speaker placement.. its a relief knowing i can continue that direction. I think that placement fits my overall Plan / Vision better than building out for the speakers in the front corners.

IB Sub...ummmmmm ..... YEA BABY!!! i read Cathan's thread per your recomendation. Your right I had not considered the infinate baffle previously, I definately get the concept / benefit, although some of the science - ie.. opposing placement of the drivers cancelling the mechanical forces, still leaves me scratching my head, however, based on the post from Cathan when he tried it out, i gotta belive that this is a worthwhile addition. + this concept definately appeals to my bigger, badder, better thought process.

I will be posting an updated plan showing the additional IB Sub behind the current speaker chamber. Thanks again for the recomendation oman321.

Any other suggestions for general room layout are greatly appreciated.

Im heading down to spend a couple of hours on removing the current soffit.. should be fun....

Thanks again guys,

Brad


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post #6 of 868 Old 03-09-2009, 10:22 AM
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Hi Brad

Welcome to the madness. All the way to an isolated room with an IB sub. It'll be worth the effort.

Bryan

I am serious...and don't call me Shirley.
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post #7 of 868 Old 03-15-2009, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Brad

Welcome to the madness. All the way to an isolated room with an IB sub. It'll be worth the effort.

Bryan

Bryan Thanks... the amount of information, details and like "Madness" on this forum fits my obsessive compulsive personality perfectly.

Well, the destruction is nearly complete... My plan to remove the soffits, shorten the first walls i framed, then add DC04 clips, was going to be more effort than it was worth to save a few 2x4..

After factoring in the price of DC04's, Risc clips, and channel, i decided to go with a true "Room In Room" instead. I have more of a comfort factor with lumber/framing and this approach seemed less "mysterious" to me than the other decoupling methods.

So I fired up the sawzall and went to work.. ( never realized how trigger happy i could get with a framing nailer until i had to cut the nails out 1 at a time)



The wife also helped me with the destruction last week




Replacement spoiler for the highlander = $750
Bottom 2 panels for an 18' x 8' garage door = $905
The wife never asking again why I'm tearing down a room I just built = Priceless



On the way now to rebuy more framing material, --Ding Ding-- ROUND 2



Brad
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post #8 of 868 Old 04-02-2009, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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My 11 year old already came down stairs looked around and said;
"Dad, you sure like to complicate things" ........... So I've already heard that more than once...but still open for other comments

THE SECOND GO AROUND...........

Below is the revised Layout.. Subject to change at any time based on suggestions from people that know more than I do about theaters.

This will be a truely decoupled, Room in a Room, Box in a Box, nothing touching anywhere--Nada. Well.. it touches the concrete.

The soffits will actually be built as part of the ceiling structure
(their is a method to this madness) I hope a little more work upfront with the framing, one thing I'm somewhat confortable with, will make things eaiser in the long run.

The room and inside soffits will be skinned in 1/2" OSB, GG, DW, GG, DW.
OSB for Rigidity, surface to screw into, additional mass and 2nd dampening layer.

Special attention payed to the "aquarium" for sound containment.


New Layout


General concept


Round 2

Im giving up the opprotunity to have a cool entrance with Marquee etc..
I may lean the other way for effect and have a hidden door to access the equip room/theatre entrance... i felt the door on this side was causing me to try to squeeze to much and limiting my seating to 3 on the back row.

Now i will be able to put bass traps in both back corners have have plenty of access



Hauled out the last pile of theater and sawn off nails

Restocked with bigger supplies this time



















I should have everything wrapped up framing by the end of this weekend.
Hvac by mid next week and drywally before next weekend

I would like to share one experience.. I spoke to John at the Soundproofing Company when i orderd the GG and it was actually an enjoyable experience from a service standpoint.... it was finally nice to find someone that actually wanted to talk about theaters .... My kids, wife, family, friends and strangers in the streets now all roll thier eyes if i even mention the subject.

I would appreciate a Sanity check from you guys regarding a couple of things--

General layout:

I realize the rear row is ideally too close to the back wall and the 120" CIH screen size to seating distance for the front row is pushing it at 1.1, But it seems I see similar ratios in quite a few of the builds.. i m kinda stuck with the space i have to work with and i always sit towars the front in the big theaters.... comments are appreciated....


My wiring plan:

At this time I plan on feed all of my wiring .. speaker, power etc from the equip room to the soffit.. i will not put any elec boxes in the walls,, everything will run down inside my columns to outlets in columns and down the rear columns into the riser, behind the screen wall to the stage etc.. for additional recepticle locations

I basically plan to route all the wiring through the soffits where it needs to go.
If i put several cans around the parameter in the soffit as shown in general layout .. do you all think this is enough light? without cans in the ceiling

for control i will just feed one line for an exposed IR receptor.. or through soffit to front stage wall

projector will be very close if not in rear soffit so the wiring for it will also go through the soffit..

I will make the bass traps like cartridges probably held up by little L brackets on each of the insides of the soffit that just fit between the lights and columns in the soffits so they can be removed when time to change or add cabeling etc..

speakers are currently planned to be hidden in columns

Does anyone see a reason i cant do this from a wiring standpoin?.. Am i missing something.... or anything? Maybe everything??

Other wise on to the drywall next week.

Any thoughts are appreciated.


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post #9 of 868 Old 04-02-2009, 09:51 PM
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Code requires outlets in the walls less than 20" high every 12ft on a well extending more than 6'. That's the only wiring problem I see.
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post #10 of 868 Old 04-03-2009, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Mapitc0

I think i can still meet that code if i put outlets in the bottom of the columns
as shown in the wireframe below, since the columns should be considered part of the wall.

Here is a wireframe of my concept for approaching the wiring for everything, elec, speakers, projector ......

This view is looking up at the bottom of the soffit.

The bass traps would have frames and would be inset between the lights and columns. they could be removed in the future to access inside the soffit / wiring chase.

The framed soffit is 8" deep, and about 15" wide, so i could have 3" bass traps and still leave 5" for wiring chase or some combination there of.

This approach would let me really address the "Aquarium" sound leakage issues, since no lights or elec boxes would penetrate the outer shell of the room

I havent seen this done, so I feel i must be missing something.. ???????


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post #11 of 868 Old 04-05-2009, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

Thanks Mapitc0
I havent seen this done, so I feel i must be missing something.. ???????

I am putting everything in my columns as well. The only penetration I have is the wires for the sconces these are small hole. Nice thread!
Jeff

If I had it to do all over again, I'd still hit that shot.

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post #12 of 868 Old 04-20-2009, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Three weeks since my last ambitious post where i stated i was starting the drywall soon.
It takes the body a little while longer to heal now then a couple of years ago.

I walked around like the hunch back for a week after carrying this load down into the basement.. I havent seen the friend that helped me since then either, free beer doesnt go as far as it used to


I did manage to get the majority of the framing completed. I still need to frame the second of the double walls at the the entrance.

I finished getting the remaining ceiling joists completed in the main room and the OSB on the walls. walls are ready for the additional 2 layers of dwall with gg between each layer ... OSB,GG,DW,GG,DW

The ceiling ended up with approx 17.5" of air space between the HT ceiling and the bottom of the first floor.. I know they say that their is a point of diminishing returns past an R19 of insulation, but i am filling the entire air space, it is something along the lines of R47 total .. I could heat this room with a candle if needed.

I completed the double stud walls around the IB Chamber, but i still need to finish framing the joist system above it, then frame the manifold wall seperating the chamber from the theater.


The chamber will be completely skinned inside with 3/4 MDF, GG, and 2 layers of Dwall with GG between.

Gotta keep these little fellers from disturbing the rest of the House.
4 - 18" FI IB3 Drivers .. Ordered today ...
Photo compliments of FI Audio.


Also special thanks to the guys at the "Cult" especially Thomas W. and Chrisbee for their patience in answering my endless questions.

The front of the theater will get MDF 2' along the side walls and across the front instead of OSB.. I wanted to add a little more density behind the AT screen for the front walls. This shot shows where the MDF needs to go and the size relationship of the IB chamber to the room.



On another note... I see alot of debate recently regarding the use of the spray insulations in builds, meaning the expandable open cell foams... and I have read comments where the sales guys for these products have reported that the spary foams are superior for sound isolation..

IMHO Please do your own research, before you spend that kind of money on this application, alot of info here on the forum from some very smart guys, if you search under Iceyene.
These foams do practically nothing for sound isolation.. in some cases they can be detremental to your isolation efforts because they can actually couple surfaces together..

remember the benefit of the fiberglass insulation comes from the transfer of kenitic energy as the sound waves cause the little fibers to vibrate...

Spray Foams are "Great" for insulation and probably the best solution in specific applications.. such as shown in the RIM joist in the picture below.. if you look closely directly above the Pink foam board you can see the sprayed insulation in the Rim joist.
Also the use of the extruded closed cell foams directly glued to the concrete wall (be sure to tape the seams with like a Tyvex tape) is probably also one of the Best know methods for insulating and providing a vapor barrier in a basement.

Both of these approaches will save $$ over the spray foams..


Dont get me wrong I love the Spray foams for insulation,, It was quite a decision for me to go with the foams in the rest of my house when i built it considering the additional cost.. but again it was the right product for the application. ... remember thats just my opinion...

As always comments, questions, suggestions and criticism is encouraged....

Stay tuned.. Same Bat time, Same Bat Channel...

Brad


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post #13 of 868 Old 04-20-2009, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

It takes the body a little while longer to heal now then a couple of years ago.

I walked around like the hunch back for a week after carrying this load down into the basement.. I havent seen the friend that helped me since then either, free beer doesnt go as far as it used to

Now that is funny! Unfortunately I totally get what you are laying down! Good stuff I like the look of the OSB for the first layer.

Jeff

If I had it to do all over again, I'd still hit that shot.

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post #14 of 868 Old 04-20-2009, 07:27 PM
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Man, I have to commend you on the extra mile you are going for sound isolation. I have to admit I was too damn cheap to do all that. I might regret it when completely done, but I am hoping things wont be too horrible, but at this time it is wait and see. Sometimes I think, maybe I should have done DD and GG, but then I think of the added cost on hat channel and whisper clips and I know while I have the money, that I am just too cheap to spend it. shame on me, I know.


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post #15 of 868 Old 04-20-2009, 09:03 PM
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Brad,
Very well organized thread you have here. Pics do an excellent job of tying it all together too. I echo your comments about John at The Soundproofing Company--he and Ted both are a real help and enjoyable to talk to/bounce ideas off of. I am building a room within a room as well and using soffit around existing I-beam and HVAC ducts for wire chase so enjoy seeing how you are putting things together.
My back/body felt the same as yours after hauling 140 sheets of drywall downstairs--thought that gravity was supposed to help Fortunately for me my 2x10 joists were only 16 feet long so could carry and wrangle into place over I-beam myself.
I will have a double stud wall with communicating doors too so looking forward to your build progress as mine is a slow crawl--a weekend of progress followed by 3 weeks of ?????
Thanks again for posting your build.
Greg
ps love the thread title
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post #16 of 868 Old 04-23-2009, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Now that is funny! Unfortunately I totally get what you are laying down! Good stuff I like the look of the OSB for the first layer.

Jeff

Jeff.. My Back seems Back now... The MIA friend showed up and brought the beer this time. so I finally got a little more done.

I likes the look of the OSB also.. lots of benefits to this I thought, ... second dampening layer, I can screw something in the wall anyhere + its the key to the Lateral resistance in the Room in a Room Structure.

Thanks again on the Track Saw Tip, The FED x Guy showed up with it this morning it already looks like a well used tool.

Quote:
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Man, I have to commend you on the extra mile you are going for sound isolation. I have to admit I was too damn cheap to do all that. I might regret it when completely done, but I am hoping things wont be too horrible, but at this time it is wait and see. Sometimes I think, maybe I should have done DD and GG, but then I think of the added cost on hat channel and whisper clips and I know while I have the money, that I am just too cheap to spend it. shame on me, I know.

Hey Smak,

I know what you mean, i wrestled with the Channel and Clips myself for along time before I started on the freestanding room. for me i felt the room was the best way to go.. one sheet of OSB is the approx cost of a DC04 clip and for me the comfort factor was much higher working with conventional framing methods.

Your room is looking great.....

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Brad,
Very well organized thread you have here. Pics do an excellent job of tying it all together too. I echo your comments about John at The Soundproofing Company--he and Ted both are a real help and enjoyable to talk to/bounce ideas off of. I am building a room within a room as well and using soffit around existing I-beam and HVAC ducts for wire chase so enjoy seeing how you are putting things together.
My back/body felt the same as yours after hauling 140 sheets of drywall downstairs--thought that gravity was supposed to help Fortunately for me my 2x10 joists were only 16 feet long so could carry and wrangle into place over I-beam myself.
I will have a double stud wall with communicating doors too so looking forward to your build progress as mine is a slow crawl--a weekend of progress followed by 3 weeks of ?????
Thanks again for posting your build.
Greg
ps love the thread title

Thanks Greg,
It does "Hurt" getting old.. I'm not sure which is affecting me more the Mental or the Physical aspect of it... Over the weekend my 9 year old made of point of mentioning "Hey dad do you know you got a bald spot" argggggh..

I know what you mean about
"a weekend of progress followed by 3 weeks of ?????"
I'm barely staying ahead of the curve with what I'm doing right now.. i study the forum for 3 hrs the night before and work a couple in the basement trying to apply what I pick up..



Anyway... I did get a few more things accomplished the last couple of days.

But first the pic of the new tool...
This track saw is the coolest thing for cutting up sheet goods.
It ripped through 8 sheets of 3/4 MDF faster and eaiser than anything i've had before..and right on the money..


I finished the joist system above the IB Chamber, and got the first layer of the 3/4 MDFup inside of it..

Now i need to build the manifold wall that seperates the IB from the Room.
and finish putting the MDF across the front of the screen wall.

I also got the first layer of 5/8 DW on the ceiling.

I also got all the DW strips cut and ready to wrap the Beams so hopefully Saturday, ill finish the 2nd layer of DW and GG on the Lid and get the Lift returned on monday..

Brad.


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post #17 of 868 Old 04-23-2009, 06:43 PM
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Wow man that IB chamber looks awesome. Wish I could do the same, maybe for HT 2.0. I can try to do something with my mechanical room, but I can't seal the whole room off as my HVAC returns are built into the wall.

Keep it up your doing great.


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post #18 of 868 Old 04-24-2009, 07:24 AM
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Brad;
You've done great job, I never connected your IB cult thread and this until just now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oman321 View Post

Wow man that IB chamber looks awesome. Wish I could do the same, maybe for HT 2.0. I can try to do something with my mechanical room, but I can't seal the whole room off as my HVAC returns are built into the wall.

Keep it up your doing great.

Yep, my IB backchamber is my basement utility/HVAC room, the IB backwave wave does transmit slightly into the main floor mudroom above the utility room, and then into the kitchen/family room.
It would be a PIA to try and contain that backwave, a very minor downside of IB.

Not bad, and only really when she's cranked at IB + reference levels, i.e., the EP2500 is running extra "hot".

Brad's solution is best for containment.

Mike R,P.E. clickable DIY hot links:

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post #19 of 868 Old 04-24-2009, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oman321 View Post

Wow man that IB chamber looks awesome. Wish I could do the same, maybe for HT 2.0. I can try to do something with my mechanical room, but I can't seal the whole room off as my HVAC returns are built into the wall.

Keep it up your doing great.


Oman321.. Thanks... if you woulnt have mentioned it (post 4)i never would have thought of it.. Now Im all giddy in anticipation, if its 1/4 of what people have said it is I know i will be estatic

I dont know if you have ever browsed the site.. but the "Cult of the Infinitely baffled" Appears to be the defacto source for IB info.

http://ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/index.cgi

Actually only a very few seem to contain the rear wave in a dedicated chamber,, what you describe seems to be what the majority do.. and the IB actually works out to be competitive $$ wise with the cost of the Higher end subs and especially more economical than a couple of subs.

My approach is just an extension of what is turning out to be a large / expensive science experiment in sound containment



Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Brad;
You've done great job, I never connected your IB cult thread and this until just now.

Thanks MT..

I've read your thread on there also... I cant believe the extreme you went to to get your IB to fit..


Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Brad's solution is best for containment.

I gotta give credit where it is due.. Had it not been for Oman321 directing me to it and Cathans detailed thread on his chamber build I dont think i would have even incorporated it let alone taken the approach I have..

I dont know but alot of people say you dont even need butt shakers because of the punch from the IB.... We shall see......

Thanks again guys

Brad


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That's cool, just glad that I could add something to what is turning out to be a great build.

Good to know about what the majority does for the IB. I knew some folks used attic space, or open areas behind the setup for the wave, but more of what I have seen lately is a chamber. Since I used stud bays for HVAC returns I wasn't sure how this would affect the space used for the wave.

Definately something for me to consider for the future although I don't know if the Mrs. could handle it. It's now with a basic 12" JBL sub and she thinks I'm gonna bring down the house . Something like that will only happen when I finish the space and get a serious itch for an upgrade or divorce court.


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post #21 of 868 Old 04-27-2009, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Finished wrapping the inside and bottom of beams with first layer of DW then calked all the corners and seams in the first layer with "SILENSEAL"

Then popped open the first 5 gallon Pail of "GREEN GLUE", and loaded the "Speed Loader"

I'll say right up front, the GG and speed loader was eaiser to work with than I had anticipated.

Overall Id say that the GG has the consistancy of a thick paint (I had feared something along the lines of construction adhesive, and thought my forearms would get a work out just squeezing the dispenser) and the spead loader was hastle free... little effort needed to fill the tubes and dispense.

We applied the GG at the rate of 2 tubes and 1 beer per sheet.
Id say the GG only added about 5-7 Min per sheet for the application



Before applying the GG we would put the sheet on the lift then raise to test fit.. Figured this was eaiser than trying to trim anything after the GG was applied. Once the sheet was on the lift and the fit was verified we just stood on ladders/buckets to apply the GG.

Then we just raised the panels up and screwed into place.
Ran the second Layer of DW the opposite direction from the first to make sure none of our seems overlapped.
you can see the Silenseal in the seams and corners on the first layer in the pic below.

There is definately a reason to follow the instructions and make sure to stay back 2-3" from the edge when applying the GG. Too close the the edge and the GG will squeeze out and drip down.. and you really dont want to start getting this stuff everywhere..


An oversight on my part that caused a certain amont of aggravation hanging the second layer.... you really need to trim the thickness of dwall off the side of the first sheet.. the second layer is offset by the thickness on the side wall, so our second layer was nearly off of the joists on one side and we ended up having to put the screws in at angles to catch the joists.. no biggie really but like I said it just slowed the process down some because we couldnt use the Autogun. (Hope that explination makes sense)


Lastly the Clean up wasnt as bad as anticipated either.. took the loader apart after running about 10 loads of clean water through it, and tossed it in a bucket of water. The parts wiped right off about 1/2 later..
One comment for Ted if you read this... the wire brush supplied with the loader needs a longer handle
Note: the bucket of water used to rinse out the gun will have alot of tack too it.. i wouldnt dump it down any drains..



Overall.. if you were like me and are hesitating on the GG becasue of the "added hastle" factor, its really not that bad.
Here is the finished 2nd layer... (really looks like the finished first layer)


That was it for the weekend... The wife drug me outside Sunday for the yard work that has been severly neglected since the basement project started.

Next... On to the walls and the insides of the soffits.


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post #22 of 868 Old 04-27-2009, 09:20 AM
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Good stuff! Kind of what I thought as well going into it, especially the thickness part much thinner than I would have thought.

Miller Lite drinker, must be a good guy

Cheers
Jeff

If I had it to do all over again, I'd still hit that shot.

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post #23 of 868 Old 04-27-2009, 09:44 AM
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Nice rundown, KNK. Thanks for sharing that.

As far as short term cleaning / storage, you don't dis-assemble the Speedload. Flush a few times and then leave (as assembled) full of water in a pail.

Thanks!
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post #24 of 868 Old 04-28-2009, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

That was it for the weekend... The wife drug me outside Sunday for the yard work that has been severly neglected since the basement project started.

There's a world outside of the basement?

Looks great!

Dave


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post #25 of 868 Old 04-28-2009, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post


Lastly the Clean up wasnt as bad as anticipated either.. took the loader apart after running about 10 loads of clean water through it, and tossed it in a bucket of water. The parts wiped right off about 1/2 later..
One comment for Ted if you read this... the wire brush supplied with the loader needs a longer handle
Note: the bucket of water used to rinse out the gun will have alot of tack too it.. i wouldnt dump it down any drains..


A little late for you perhaps, but a quick tip for future users of the GG system, you don't need to clean the gun at the end of each day. Just load it with water and let it sit in your water bucket. I kept mine like that for weeks on end during the drywall process. It worked just as well on the last day as the first. In the end I just tossed the gun when I was done-done. For the $20 for the gun I more then got my value and didn't want to deal with the couple of hours of cleaning it would take ot get it to clean-like-new conditions.

.................
Michael

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post #26 of 868 Old 04-29-2009, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I did have an opprotunity to put up a couple of more sheets of DW with GG in the IB chamber, and have one more comment on the GG application that may benefit someone..

Rather than pulling on the "Trigger" of the speed loader during the application, I found it much eaiser to apply a consistant bead of GG by just applying constant pressure to the plunger and keeping the loader moving, seemed to go faster and eliminated some of the initial "Blobbing" (word?) each time you pulled the trigger..



Quote:
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Miller Lite drinker, must be a good guy

Cheers
Jeff

Jeff, Is there any other kind of beer?

Unfortunately I have discovered a flaw in the "Work for Free Beer" program I had established for my buddies.. There is an inverse relationship in the ROI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

Nice rundown, KNK. Thanks for sharing that.

As far as short term cleaning / storage, you don't dis-assemble the Speedload. Flush a few times and then leave (as assembled) full of water in a pail.

Thanks!

Ted, I had read that in the instructions but wasn't sure about "Short term" wether it was 2-3 hrs, or overnight etc.... now i just flush, fill, and leave full of water in the pail..

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranTheaterO View Post

There's a world outside of the basement?

Looks great!

Dave

Thanks Dave, I was white as a gost after spending the last straight couple months or so in the basement... I had barely noticed spring had come and now golf season is here.. I hope the basement time doesnt start taking too big a hit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathan View Post

A little late for you perhaps, but a quick tip for future users of the GG system, you don't need to clean the gun at the end of each day. Just load it with water and let it sit in your water bucket. I kept mine like that for weeks on end during the drywall process. It worked just as well on the last day as the first. In the end I just tossed the gun when I was done-done. For the $20 for the gun I more then got my value and didn't want to deal with the couple of hours of cleaning it would take ot get it to clean-like-new conditions.

Michael, not too late at all.. I still have weeks of Dwall left, and knowing that i can avoid assy/diss assy of the loader after every use makes it eaiser to go down and just put up a sheet here and there.. seems ashamed to just toss the loader.. its such a nice/well designed tool, but i dont know what else you could use it for.. ummmm..


Thanks

Brad


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post #27 of 868 Old 04-30-2009, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Gotta love it when the guy in the Big Brown Truck pulls in your driveway


Look at the size of these puppies i was taken back a little




I feel like Ralphie with the Red Ryder. (one smiley for each speaker)


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post #28 of 868 Old 04-30-2009, 11:05 AM
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Those subs are gonna sound awesome..now get it done so I can here it all the way here in my house.
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That woofer(x4) looks awesome, gonna be sweet.

Thought I'd ask since your in middle of it and it's fresh in your mind. I'm not planning to do it anytime soon but just wanted to know in case I ever do. You put OSB as your first layer and then your doing DD and GG, I think Michael just did DD and GG but is a certain amount of stiffness necessary in the HT room? Is this the reason for the OSB or was it more for sound isolation. I ask because I didn't do the DD & GG thing, I basically did single layer of rock.

Looking at some posts in the IB forum I think someone mentioned that the IB will flex your walls some and if it does you loosing a lot of the benifit of having the IB. Just curios as I haven't to much time to look into and I'm sure you have good reason for the OSB.


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post #30 of 868 Old 04-30-2009, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikieson View Post

Those subs are gonna sound awesome..now get it done so I can here it all the way here in my house.

Dude... I can hardly wait... I had lost a little HT motivation doing the Dwall, now that the Woofers are here its balls to the wall again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by oman321 View Post

That woofer(x4) looks awesome, gonna be sweet.

Thought I'd ask since your in middle of it and it's fresh in your mind. I'm not planning to do it anytime soon but just wanted to know in case I ever do. You put OSB as your first layer and then your doing DD and GG, I think Michael just did DD and GG but is a certain amount of stiffness necessary in the HT room? Is this the reason for the OSB or was it more for sound isolation. I ask because I didn't do the DD & GG thing, I basically did single layer of rock.

Michael took a different path then I did for decoupling his room, by using Clips and channels. So the OSB wasnt necessary in his room, he could just go right to the DD and GG. "Michael ... feel free to chime in if you want to add on this one"

For me I was less comfortable with the DCO4, Risc clips and Channel. So I went with room in a room using a post and beam type construction..by doing this I needed to use the OSB to provide lateral shear to the "Free Standing BOX", and maintain a 1" gap between the entire room and the existing structure.

Think of it as a free standing building, I'm sure you've seen the OSB on the outside of houses after their framed, this is exactly the same thing, only the OSB is on the inside. This room could withstand windshear if it was standing outside by itself.

When i weighed the cost of doing staggered studs or paying $4 - $5 ea for clips (each clip being a comparable price to one sheet of OSB) and the price of the channel to decouple, I figured it was nearly a wash to take the path I did(and less hastle for me, no learning curve with conventional framing) Fortunately I had 9' ceilings to work with so it was a feasible alternative, still leaving 8' plus even with new joists below the floor joists.

Additionall benefits include:
GG between the OSB and First layer of Dwall adds a second dampening layer.
The OSB adds additional mass to the room.
The Room in a Room adds more airspace in the wall and ceiling cavities.
All of these benefit sound containment
+ I can screw anything, anywhere into the wall and not worry about needing to hit a stud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oman321 View Post


Looking at some posts in the IB forum I think someone mentioned that the IB will flex your walls some and if it does you loosing a lot of the benifit of having the IB. Just curios as I haven't to much time to look into and I'm sure you have good reason for the OSB.

Their are basically 2 types of IB.. a line array, (like mtbdudex built) where all subs are basically in a line (you see the face of all the drivers) and the manifold type. (like Michael built) The benefit of the manifold type is that because the drivers are facing each other the mechanical forces are cancelled by the opposing driver.. so the manifold will not reak near the havoc with mechanical forces on your ceilings or walls that the line array will.. I have seen on the Cult where guys are talking about using steel plates to mount their drivers in line arrays because of the forces that 4 or so of the big drivers can exhort. When the wall/ceiling where the line array is mounted flexes, it can cancel part of the force of the driver, hence the loss of benefit, the more flex, the more loss.

I'm sure the rear wave from 4 of these drivers could do a decent job of pressurizing the chamber, but I really dont have any fear of it being able to flex the walls with 3/4" MDF and 2 layers of 5/8" Dwall ...

In your case where your talking about venting the rear wave into more of an open area I dont believe i would have any concern because your not trying to contain the rear wave. and I'm sure that all the people on the Cult who vent into their attics or floor spaces do not have OSB or DD in their living rooms.

Oh.. I just did a preview on this post and realized I started rambling
I have found everyone around me is tired of hearing about HT's so if someone actually asks a questions I just dont shut up.... Another AVS Monster Created

As Paul Harvey would say (would have said) "Now You know the rest of the Story"


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