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post #1 of 577 Old 04-06-2009, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, so I finally got off my rear and decided to post some pictures of my intended build. I've started down a path but am having some second thoughts and hoping to get some feedback.

As history, I have a 10 yr. old home/new construction that I designed loosely based on a stock home plan. Didn't plan for HT so it is what it is in terms of layout options. Based on space, planning on a 16:9 120" diagonal screen.

I've spent a few cycles studying layout options, and settled on progressing with the following (with some reservations):

3D Home Architect version:

Sketchup version:


This area seemed to make the most sense to me but, it's unfortunately directly under our master bedroom so sound isolation is to be of considerable importance. if I have any hope of retreating to the man cave while wife is sleeping. With that in mind, I will be doing DD/GG, decoupled walls etc. My biggest concern right now is that I have both return and forced air trunk lines running right along the beam on the theater side. Pictures follow:




Return is along beam (8x20 trunk, way oversized) and forced air next to it is 8x16". Original plan was to just move both to the other side of the beam just before the entrance wall. Had a sheet metal/HVAC guy out and he immediately talked me out of moving the forced air trunk over due to the number of corners needing made and that it would restrict airflow to that end of the house. I asked about tweaking dampers in the other ductwork etc. but was advised that I may never get it right. So, while he was there I suggested just moving the return trunk over to the opposite side. and moving the forced trunk along side the beam on the theater side (where the return was) and just doing a soffit around it. A much better option. The quote came back at $1700. I can do this myself for under $200 materials, but that's a side note.

So, what I am concerned about is if I can effectively damp noise with this trunk line (forced one) enclosed in a soffit. I have two 13' runs of round 6" duct running from it to the right wall feeding two master bedroom registers, and a third shorter one at the end feeding master bath. This is my dilemma right now and has caused me to put things on hold. I would plan to replace the lateral runs with flex duct but am concerned about getting at least "good" isolation to the trunk line in the future soffit.

After going back to look at my layout again, I started thinking about the space on the other side of the beam, and came up with the following alternative (note change in stairs, with landing now but can only see getting around 32-34" square):










I discounted this space originally due to to the 8'x16" block indentation which is part of the front stoop and overall depth, but it would be a lot less worry in terms of soundproofing (little HVAC) but more challenging from a framing standpoint with the stairs and all of the steel support posts around stairs etc.
Also concerned about side to side spacing of theater seating and surround speaker placement on the indented portion. May have some challenging issues the sound quality.

To summarize, I am hoping to just continue on the path I'm on as I have over half of the walls built by now but I'm not too far along that I couldn't switch things. The theater where it's at now just feels better to me, if you take the trunk line out of the equation. I like the idea of having the door to the storage area and would be concerned about general sound issues with the option shown, where to put my equipment closet etc. etc.

Hoping to hear some comments and advice on this.
Thanks,
Floyd
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post #2 of 577 Old 04-06-2009, 07:06 PM
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I don't think you have the headroom under the beam to turn the bottom of the stairs as shown without banging your head as you turn right. I could be wrong.
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post #3 of 577 Old 04-06-2009, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Big...Your absolutely correct. I was worrying about how wide the landing would be, and how far the bottom stair would be into the room. Definitely a knot on my head even with a shorter stature.

Well, that blows that idea out of the water. May just have had a sigh of relief.

On to the HVAC question I guess.
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post #4 of 577 Old 04-06-2009, 07:44 PM
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Move the return close to the wall, move the supply closer to the beam. But I don't have a clue how this will change the system efficiency.
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post #5 of 577 Old 04-06-2009, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's what I have planned as suggested by the HVAC guy.

The forced air goes from 18x8 to 16x8 within the theater. I found a place on line that will build a 45 degree transition from 18" to 16" with whatever extra length needed before and after the bend for around $100 plus shipping.
http://www.ocsm.net/cart_Products.as...%20Transitions

All I do is cut the return, cap cut ends, move to other side of beam (and down one joist cavity width), cut new openings in top and seal old and mount to the existing thermopan. Tie in from one side to the other is via the joist cavity. The new angle/transition fitting for the forced portion will just fit between sections, connect with drives and away we go.

Should be very little affect on system performance I am told.
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post #6 of 577 Old 04-13-2009, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Framing continues in my basement. Hope to have it completed over the next week or two and will post some more pics. In the mean time, have been trying to pin down my interior layout a bit. Latest revision is as follows:



I haven't drawn up the stage yet but am planning an indented screen (120" diag.). Also, as part of that construction, planning on build for ease of upgrade to AT screen/2.35:1 if I decide to incorporate sometime down the road. For now it's going to be 16:9 though.

Any comments on general layout would be appreciated.
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post #7 of 577 Old 04-13-2009, 06:17 AM
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Notice in your diagram "Pocket?" for a door reference. While nice because it doesn't intrude in or out of either space, it doesn't work for sound isolation which is an important concern for you.

Also just wanted to say why not go with AT and perhaps 2:35 off the bat. Now would be the time to plan it and go for it. Really less costly than doing it twice and not any more difficult to implement other than considering lens or to zoom.
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post #8 of 577 Old 04-13-2009, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oman321 View Post

Notice in your diagram "Pocket?" for a door reference. While nice because it doesn't intrude in or out of either space, it doesn't work for sound isolation which is an important concern for you

Also just wanted to say why not go with AT and perhaps 2:35 off the bat. Now would be the time to plan it and go for it. Really less costly than doing it twice and not any more difficult to implement other than considering lens or to zoom.

I 've struggled with this a bit re sound isolation vs. a standard door, to the point of saving this wall build til last in framing. I'll have the entrance wall decoupled with RSIC04 clips and DD/GG. Outside of not being able to put up insulation in the "pocket area" of the door, will there really be that much difference? It strikes me that the main diff would be possibly around the actual door edges where it meets top, bottom and closed side? I'm in agreement that it will be more "leaky" but having trouble quantifying it. As info, the HT entrance wall is right under and running parallel to a two story first floor wall which separates our master bedroom and great room above.

My biggest concern with going 2:35 is that I will loose around 3' of room depth (unless I'm not thinking about the install correctly). I don't know that I want my first row any closer than 12' based on some test seating set-up I did over the weekend. Adding those extra feet for AT screen is going to push my second row/riser back further and possibly cut out what isle width I have along the entrance. Just not sold on it at this point.
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post #9 of 577 Old 05-15-2009, 08:25 AM
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Floyd it looks great. Keep posting pictures.

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post #10 of 577 Old 05-15-2009, 10:15 AM
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That step design looks a little awkward on the riser. I would go wider and if possible extend them a bit into the walkway. IMHO those little front horns are of limited value.
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post #11 of 577 Old 05-15-2009, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

That step design looks a little awkward on the riser. I would go wider and if possible extend them a bit into the walkway. IMHO those little front horns are of limited value.

Thanks...yes I see what you're saying and will modify. Since my last post, have been building out walls in the plan but won't have my duct work changed for another 1-2 weeks so I can finish the entrance wall. Took the rack "out of the theater" and putting it in the small wall by the door off of the exercise/play room. I can see why these builds take so long...so many little things to address. I can burn a 1/2 hour or more just milling around the basement deciding what off of the list I want to do next

I have modified my duct transition to give me at least an extra foot in theater depth and am planning on going AT screen vs. indented non AT. Still leaning towards 16:9 but that my change as well by the time I need to make that decision.

Will hopefully have a bunch more pictures with progress update in the next few weeks.
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post #12 of 577 Old 05-15-2009, 10:43 AM
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Just took another look at your floor plan and here is an idea for you.


Move the door to the theater around the corner to the side wall. Flip the orientation of the room and put the screen where the door is and the equipment will be near the rear where it will be less of a distraction. Build the riser wall to wall and have the door come in the front portion of the room. This will give you an added benefit of more usable floor space in the fireplace room as you won't have to keep the area in front of the double doors open for traffic. The room will have a better theater feel without the riser as an island in the middle of the room.
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post #13 of 577 Old 05-15-2009, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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You're killing me Big....but I think I might like it

Assuming you're talking about something along the lines of this:





It's not too late to work this in....have to change a couple of 2 x 6's along the beam wall for new door opening (no big deal). Will need to check where one of the beam posts is in relation to the new door location though.

If you missed it in my previous post, I took the rack opening out of the theater and put it it the small room beside it. Would plan on keeping that the same.

Definitely something to think about over the weekend.
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post #14 of 577 Old 05-15-2009, 12:37 PM
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Your new plan looks like a better use of space - your room just gained 3 ft of depth. Now, perhaps you can revisit the AT scope screen decision...

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.
Lewis Family Cinema 1.0

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post #15 of 577 Old 05-15-2009, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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AT's a given but still need to ponder scope issue. At present leaning towards Panny 3000U which has memory feature so can easily switch between 16:9 or 2.35 so that may push me over the edge to scope. Anamorphic lens isn't in my budget. Too many other things on my mind right now to make that decision (still have to submit plans for permits etc.).

Also, have to look at door height under beam...local code is 6'4" (beams/ducts) so I should be ok but have to double check as I have soffits on both sides of the beam to deal with as well.
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post #16 of 577 Old 05-15-2009, 01:06 PM
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Revised layout is great.
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post #17 of 577 Old 05-15-2009, 02:01 PM
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Yeah, I like it too, good job Big!!

and +1 about the AT and 2.35 being back in play. I sure wish I had done it, and now I am redoing a perfect good front wall and moving my PJ to make it 2.35...

If you look up in the 2.35 area there are more and more folks who started with a zoom setup that are switching to a lens, for better use of pixels and the bump in lumens so at least put your PJ in the right place for a lens even if your not going to do that just yet. You don't want to throw it up there and then in a year, when you want to upgrade, realize you really should have moved it 2' back or something...
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post #18 of 577 Old 05-15-2009, 02:12 PM
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I also think I would pull that door closer to the seats, then if someone is coming or going they are not right up front by the stage. It would be a lot less distracting to just sneak out the side by the couches than to walk right up to the front of the room which would really disrupt everyone else...

And the current door location is right about where you are going to need some acoustic treatment, for the front speaker reflection points and incorporating it into a door is a lot harder than a flat wall...
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post #19 of 577 Old 05-15-2009, 03:25 PM
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I like it. But as the others have stated moving the door a bit toward the seats allows you to do more with the screen wall and may help positioning acoustical treatments.

Don't go overboard on tucking the rear row up against the rear wall. The rear surround speakers need some space do their thing. Make the rear riser at least 8 ft deep allowing 18 inches behind the rear row. Even 24 if you can fit everything.
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post #20 of 577 Old 05-15-2009, 04:45 PM
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The other thing I've done in the past with the rear surrounds, either 6 & 7 or the second set of 4 & 5 is make them in-ceiling speakers, as most of us know, not a lot comes out of those, especially 6 & 7, and a lot of time its the gun fire, or airplane noise, or weather noise, so its kind of cool coming from above...

Just a thought if you can't bring it forward off the back wall...
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post #21 of 577 Old 05-16-2009, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank for the advice.....all good. The bottom of my beam is at 83" so I should get that door in but will just have a couple maybe 3 inches clearance so might not get a top molding on. I'm figuring that if I build my soffit to the isolated wall top plate (not to the beam) which is 1/4" or so under beam I will end up with around 80" clearance to bottom of drywalled soffit (including DD). Subtract 6'4" for code, that leaves only 4" left, without carpet/pad and maybe dricore added in. Oh and, didn't add in for top prehung jamb thickness either. It's getting tight man.

As far as location of the door, I have steel support posts every 8 feet, so one is located 8 feet from the glimpse you see of the one at the corner of the new screen wall. That will limit how far the door can go. I just threw the opening in the picture haphazardly to post.

Another thing going on here is that the screen wall will be another 1-2' deeper (towards living area) giving me more room inside the theater to play around with seating, behind screen depth etc.

Will post another round of drawings once I figure out where my wall will end up at, which is waiting on duct work changes occurring over the next couple of weekends.
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post #22 of 577 Old 05-16-2009, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotto View Post

80" clearance to bottom of drywalled soffit

Just checking to be sure you are aware of the soffit building technique where nothing hangs below the obstacles other than drywall. Don't waste the headroom for a thickness of a 2x. You usually can design a soffit that doesn't need any horizontal cross members under the ducts in the soffit frame.
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post #23 of 577 Old 05-16-2009, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Just checking to be sure you are aware of the soffit building technique where nothing hangs below the obstacles other than drywall. Don't waste the headroom for a thickness of a 2x. You usually can design a soffit that doesn't need any horizontal cross members under the ducts in the soffit frame.

BIG, I think I know what you are talking about but not 100% sure. Following is detail on my beam/wall/duct that is causing concern. As far as I know on technique, I need a "stringer" of some type either along top plate of wall or along bottom edge of beam to nail whatever piece of horizontal soffit member I use (OSB or drywall or combo). With that method, I would think it would need to be at least a 2 x 2 for support/integrity. I was planning on nailing the stringer along top plate so I can keep the overall soffit isolated from the beam but, if I don't lose too much isolation for flanking/sound I could mount stringer on the beam, high enough so that horizontal soffit material ends up just under bottom of duct. Is that what you're referring to?
If there's some other method to use here I'd really appreciate additional detail or link to construction.

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post #24 of 577 Old 05-16-2009, 07:46 PM
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Yea that wall is going to be a little tricky

If you are doing acoustical wall treatments you could rest the horizontal DDW sandwich on top of furring strips attached to the walls for the fabric or if you are not doing wall treatments you could rest them on a 2x2 then hide the 2x2 with a crown molding
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post #25 of 577 Old 05-17-2009, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Another approach I thought of after my previous post was that due to needing close to 6" clearance from beam to trunk line (main soil pipe running along upper portion of beam). I could fit in that space some RSIC clips/hat channel either mounted vertically (like a wall installation) or horizontally (like ceiling) and attach a vertical support for the horizontal soffit member, so that the resulting horizontal soffit layer ends up just under the bottom of the beam, and close enough to the wall top plate to mate with the wall's drywall. I think that would achieve both the decoupling and result in absolute minimum encroachment on head room.

What do you think about that? Any pitfalls you can think of?
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post #26 of 577 Old 05-17-2009, 06:09 AM
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You are going to have to draw me a picture, I read your description twice and since I haven't finished my coffee yet I can't visualize it.
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post #27 of 577 Old 05-17-2009, 06:15 AM
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Another thought I had is to build your wall frame with a double thickness top plate the top piece smaller than the bottom. That will create a ledge for you to rest the soffit bottom on. Fasten the drywall by drilling up through the bottom of the top plate and using 2 1/2 inch screws secure the drywall snug.
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post #28 of 577 Old 05-17-2009, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's a picture of what I had in mind....with the RSIC clip/hat channel attached to the beam, then vertical board with 2 x 2 at the bottom:



I already have this 2 x 6 wall built and am now trying to retrofit a solution to it. I hate to think about tearing out and doing over. I fear that having a double thickness top plate as you described will only cut into my door height. If I would have planned better, maybe an even better solution would have been to use a 2 x 8 top plate which would have given me approximatly a 1" nailing surface on each side of the beam to fasten the bottom of the soffit to. Kind of what you suggested except would only have one top plate vs. two buying 1.5" height.
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post #29 of 577 Old 05-17-2009, 10:23 AM
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I would only go to the trouble of what you show in the diagram if the net is saving you some head room under the duct. As shown it looks about the same but it looks like you can make it work. Do you have enough room to reach in there to attach everything? you might need a right angle screwdriver.
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post #30 of 577 Old 05-17-2009, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Assuming that I shouldn't directly couple the bottom soffit to the beam (for purpose of sound isolation), going this route will save me the width of a 2 x 2 or 1.5". No one's commented on the coupling aspect either way in terms of isolation penalty.

I'm taking the return trunk that is near the beam and moving to opposite side of the beam (current state shown in third and fourth pictures from the start of this thread), then taking the forced trunk and moving to where the return is now. I could put up the rsic clips/hat and vertical frame while there is open space (after moving return) with area to work before I move the forced trunk over. From what I can see, it's either that or work with what will turn out to be a door height that is just at code or 1-2 inches higher than the 6'4" min.

Interesting that many of these builds come down to decisions based on granularity measured in INCHES vs feet.
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