Help me with my New Home Theater, Construction starts Mid July!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 46 Old 07-09-2009, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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My System!!



My Pioneer 151fd, Paradigm Signature S6 and C5, Sunfire TSEQ12 Sub


Grills Off!


Raxxess Skeleton Audio Rack:
Apple TV, Directv HR23 Receiver, Anthem D2v, Denon 5910ci for CD/SACD/DVD's, Denon 3800bdci Blu-Ray Player, NAD M25 Amp


Palliser Hiland Theater Seats


Adjacent Wine Cellar




View From the Wine Cellar









Hey Guys,

I am about to build a 7.1, home theater in my basement. I have purchased some equipment already, but am looking for help as the process goes along.

Room looks like 2 rectangles, no windows: the home theater will be 11 x 17 rectangle, opens on the right another 7 x 10 for a custom wine cellar.

11 x 17 room will be carpeted, ceiling height will only be about 7 feet, its a 1952 house. 75% Home Theater, 25% Music.

Currently I have :

Processor: Anthem D2v
Amp: NAD M25
Blu Ray Player: Denon 3800 bdci
Plasma : Pioneer Elite Pro 151FD
Sub: Sunfire TS EQ12
Sat. Video: Directv HR21
Cables: All Blue Jeans

HDMI from both video sources will go through Anthem, Directv will also go Component to Plasma if I listen to music while watching Television. Can Anthem output video HDMI from Directv receiver to plasma while playing audio from a different source, CD or IPOD?

Needs:

Front L/R Speaker: Paradigm Signature S6
Center: Paradigm Signature C5
Surrounds: Paradigm Signature 1.5R
Rears: Paradigm Signature 1.5R

Update August 1st: I purchased Paradigm S6 for front R/L and C5 for Center. Also purchased 4 Paradigm Signature 1.5R for Side Surrounds and Rears.

Audio Rack: Ordered Raxxess Skeleton Rack, 6 Feet Tall b/c the shelves can support 250 lbs and are wide enough for the M25 amp

Ordered Palliser Hiland Seats configured for 2 recliners on the ends with a loveseat in the middle. Should arrive first week in October

Looking forward to the discussions, will post pics in next two days.
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post #2 of 46 Old 07-09-2009, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I listened to Paradigm Studio 20 v.5 and Studio 60 v.4 and they are nice, but didn't give me that immediate buy impulse. I really liked the new Studio 20 v.5 more than the 60 v.4 (only 2 paradigm models at this retailer) so I will listen to the Studio 100 v.5 and Signature 6 hopefully this weekend. From what I've read I will be surprised if I don't leave having paid for a pair of S-6's and a C5 center.

I also need an equipment cabinet. The M25 amp is 100 lbs, any advice here is greatly appreciated. I like the BDI Avion 8529, but we will keep our equipment in a finished closet behind the listening area, so I need audio rack suggestions.

Biggest Issue:
Assuming I do order a Paradigm Set, the surround speakers are difficult to figure out. The room is only 12 feet wide where the tv and speakers will be placed but opens up to the right 10+ more feet so i do not have 2 walls to hang the side surrounds onto. I was thinking about the Sig ADP's in the ceiling above the seating area or the ADP 3's there too. Has anyone hung ADP-3's from a ceiling instead of a side wall? Is this just a waste when the in-ceiling is made for this type of placement.

Rears:
Depending on how the Surround L/R discussion goes, I was leaning ADP-3's against the rear wall, but could change my mind, obviously.
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post #3 of 46 Old 07-09-2009, 12:36 PM
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Budget would really help along with what type of speakers you are looking for. Also what are the primary uses (by %). This will help get you answers

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post #4 of 46 Old 07-09-2009, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I edited the original posts, 75% Home Theater, about $10k budget for items not purchased
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post #5 of 46 Old 07-09-2009, 01:10 PM
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Some pictures of the area or drawings will help visualize the space. Use Skecthup or the like...

Eric

LOGANED on 8/14/08


My Pic Intentive Build Thread
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post #6 of 46 Old 07-09-2009, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I will put both up tonight once more exact measurements are taken
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post #7 of 46 Old 07-09-2009, 03:22 PM
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Let us know your thoughts on the S6's. I've been interested in them myself, but i cant track down a dealer who carries them on hand..
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post #8 of 46 Old 07-10-2009, 08:12 AM
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The 8529 has been replaced with a series II Avion. They just put it on their website. Sound and Vision is having a competition to win a free one on their website.

http://www.bdiusa.com/theater/avion_2_8929.shtml

I dont think 100 pounds would be an issue since it has those lone metal bars under the stand now.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/iss...ewsletter.html

Ah, well, sir, I feel like a, like a slice of butter... melting on top of a big-ol' pile of flapjacks... yeah.
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post #9 of 46 Old 07-14-2009, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input so far.

My computer died this weekend and is still at the genius bar getting a new hard drive, awesome.

First, My Anthem D2v came in the mail today!!! I cannot wait to open that up, although it will be a month before it is actually hooked up. So I am now in possession of all my equipment except speakers.

I did listen to several speakers this weekend, the Paradigm Studio 100 v.5, Revel F32, and KEF XQ40 and they all sounded great, but definitely different.

The Revel's Sounded the cleanest to me in that they were just pure and laid back and didn't try to overdo anything, just play what came to them cleanly. Great to listen to classical, jazz, and acoustic music, maybe not the best for Home Theater uses to me. I did not listen to their center channel, so that previous statement is just a guess at this point, but I would think that knowing I would not put 3 of these speakers as my L/C/R, i would assume the center channel is not the missing piece here.

The KEF;s sounded very dynamic. They have a hybrid Tweeter/Mid Range driver that is supposed to give a broader sweet spot for the listener and make the speaker more versatile. While they sounded the best with movie tracks and action, they were not great with the music, as compared to the Revel's, the KEF's seemed like they were trying too hard.

The Paradigms were to me the Jack of All Trades, Master of None. They played acoustic, classical, jazz music well, but not as well as the Revel's to me. But they played Rock, electric, dance music better than the other two brands. They did not sound as crisp as the KEF's but some of that could have been the room ( 2 different listening environments, the KEF Room was much more cubic feet) I did not listen to the CC with the Paradigms or Revel's just the two mains, while i did hear the KEF's with their Center.

I will be listening to the Paradigm S-6 and Studio 100v.5's side by side the week of the 26th, so I will let you know what happens then. I will try to get dimensions and pictures up of the work at my house tonight using a borrowed computer.

Right now we have decided to build a closet behind the listening area where to house the house's electrical panel, sump pump, and my equipment rack. I Have decided to not to do a furniture stand, instead just have the L/C/R and sub under the TV and all the equipment in the rear of the listening/viewing area using I/R remote capabilities. Blue Jeans Cable is great and letting me return my unopened/unused cables and replace them with longer runs. This will enable me to put surround rears on that wall directly behind the listening area, or install in ceiling surrounds, the room will be too small for 7.1 so i will stick with 5.1 and run a second zone to the adjoining kids playroom area.

Any suggestions for Soundproofing the ceiling/walls?

Thanks for your input,
Rich
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post #10 of 46 Old 07-14-2009, 10:56 AM
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You will get all kinds of response on treating your ceiling and walls...

I am curious though, why do you think your 21 ft. room is too small for 7.1? Not so. I know a lot of people with 'smaller' rooms are doing the rear surrounds in ceiling...just a thought. I think you'd end up with a more full sound stage.
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post #11 of 46 Old 07-14-2009, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdholmes View Post

You will get all kinds of response on treating your ceiling and walls...

I am curious though, why do you think your 21 ft. room is too small for 7.1? Not so. I know a lot of people with 'smaller' rooms are doing the rear surrounds in ceiling...just a thought. I think you'd end up with a more full sound stage.

By installing the rear closet to house everything, it will be closer to 17 feet long, i could do surround R/L in ceiling, Surround backs installed in/on wall behind listening area, i need to measure everything tonight. There are also HVAC supply lines/returns in the ceiling above.

How much separation should there be between Side and rear surrounds?
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post #12 of 46 Old 07-14-2009, 11:43 AM
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I'm not sure on a required distance - I would assume that part of that will depend on your seating positions.

I'll give you my example. My room will be similar in size. My seating will be at about twelve feet back - I'm putting my side surrounds in that area and then will be putting the rears somewhere at the back likely the ceiling, angled toward the seating.
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post #13 of 46 Old 07-14-2009, 01:03 PM
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Rich,

Good to see another Chicago area build starting up.

As for 5.1 surround and 7.1 rear speaker placement/separation:
I have two rows of seating; 11.5' feet back and 17.5' feet back

My 5.1s are on the sides (5' high) slightly behind the front row seating
I would guesstimate them at 12~13' back from screen

My 7.1s are in the ceiling, 5' apart and centered above the back wall
(18' feet back from screen but in the ceiling)

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post #14 of 46 Old 07-14-2009, 04:19 PM
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You could definitely do 7.1 if you want, I mean with that size screen your first row should be at about 8' max!!, so you could actually have two pairs of surrounds and then throw the 6&7 in the ceilings...

If your into supporting our hometown boys, you owe it to yourself to take a listen to Mark Seatons, new "Sparks", it looks like they are in your price range and those things are AMAZING...cuzed has heard Mark's stuff, he can vouch for the quality and immense quantity of sound that they produce...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vengazor View Post

I will be listening to the Paradigm S-6 and Studio 100v.5's side by side the week of the 26th, so I will let you know what happens then.

I just got done having this comparison a few hours ago. The Signatures were just flat out better. They are sooo buttery smoothe. The Studio 100's are very much in your face and just not as accurate compared to the S6's.
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post #16 of 46 Old 07-15-2009, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarenT View Post

You could definitely do 7.1 if you want, I mean with that size screen your first row should be at about 8' max!!, so you could actually have two pairs of surrounds and then throw the 6&7 in the ceilings...

If your into supporting our hometown boys, you owe it to yourself to take a listen to Mark Seatons, new "Sparks", it looks like they are in your price range and those things are AMAZING...cuzed has heard Mark's stuff, he can vouch for the quality and immense quantity of sound that they produce...

Rich,

Garen makes a good point, and I agree. We heard Mark Seaton's work at a Chicago area meet earlier this year - AWESOME is all I can say. Oh and I wish my budget would accomodate this caliber of speaker. You really should try and listen to his products, as it seems you are shopping in that general price range

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post #17 of 46 Old 07-28-2009, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, back from vacation, computer is up and working again, finally. Pictures will be up tonight. Framing and electrical is mostly done.

Paradigm S-6 came into local retailer today, so I will demo them Thursday!! Finally

Now next questions: assuming I buy the S-6 C5 combo, I don't have a shortage of people telling me how much they love their Signatures more than Reference series. Is it a poor match to put SA ADP in-ceiling surrounds for the 4 surround channels instead of the Sig ADP's. I don't think the lower level speaker in the 4 rear channels should make a huge difference, but these things are impossible to A/B test in the same store.
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post #18 of 46 Old 07-28-2009, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok here are the Pics, Finally!

If anyone can PM me about how to make the pictures come out bigger from Photobucket, I would greatly appreciate the advice!

The Home Theater Section is 11' x 16'6"

Front of Room For the Plasma, L/C/R Speakers and Subwoofer


Closet that will House the Audio and Video Equipment



Ceiling Where Surrounds and Rears will be Installed


The Wine Area to the right of the listening area is 6'6" x 10'6"




The Seating Area will be about 9'6" from the 60" Pioneer Elite Plasma

Currently I am Planning to have the Surround R/L 11' back from front wall (in ceiling) and the Rear Surrounds 14' (also in ceiling). There is a closet in the rear of the room that houses my main electric panel, a sump pump and will have and equipment rack for all of my A/V pieces. I could place the rear surrounds 15' back but they would be about 4-6 inches in front of the equipment closet. I think its better to give them a little room from that closet and place them one joist further out.
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post #19 of 46 Old 07-28-2009, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is the front of the room where the TV, L/C/R/SW will be



Second Picture is where the custom wine cellar is going. There will be 2 sets of french door openings with a dry bar in the middle, should hold about 525-560 bottles.


LL
LL
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post #20 of 46 Old 07-28-2009, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Pre-Wiring in closet for Audio and Video Components, All Blue Jeans Cables

LL
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post #21 of 46 Old 07-28-2009, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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As you look at picture 38, the TV and front speakers are to your right and the closet that will house my equipment is in the rear of the room on your left. The plan is for the Rear Surrounds to be on the outside of the set of can lights on the left. You can already see where the Surround R/L will be placed as that wire is pre-determined and pre-hung. My question is, do I put the rear surrounds one more joist/rafter space back towards the rear of the room where they will not be next to the can lights, but will be in the furthest back position against the closet wall?

Hope I have a speaker purchase after Thursday's audition of the paradigm S6's
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post #22 of 46 Old 07-28-2009, 08:29 PM
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Looks like its gonna be a good one..Gonna keep an eye on this one..
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post #23 of 46 Old 07-28-2009, 09:24 PM
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Another Chicago build! We've been trying to get the Chicago group, CAVE as we call ourselves, more active, so I hopefully we'll meet sometime in person.

I'll echo what the others have said, you can fit 7.1 in that space, if you want. I would be doing 7.1 in any new room I worked on these days...
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post #24 of 46 Old 07-29-2009, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenP View Post

Another Chicago build! We've been trying to get the Chicago group, CAVE as we call ourselves, more active, so I hopefully we'll meet sometime in person.

I'll echo what the others have said, you can fit 7.1 in that space, if you want. I would be doing 7.1 in any new room I worked on these days...

Who else is in the CAVE? Looking forward to reading your book!
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post #25 of 46 Old 07-29-2009, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there anything wrong with hanging a tripole surround speaker from the ceiling? I am debating about in-ceiling versus ceiling mounted surround and rear speakers. Has anyone done a ceiling mount with a paradigm APD speaker? or similar?
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post #26 of 46 Old 07-31-2009, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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The Speaker Selection:

Well, I finally got a chance to listen to the S6/C3 combo last night and all I can say is wow! The S6 sounded so smooth and effortless that after about 5 minutes into the audition I knew that these were the speakers I would be buying. They sounded so much better than the Stuidio 100's, I really can't say enough about the difference. One thing I did notice is that they are a little brighter than I had expected, and the salesperson explained that part of that is due to the fact that they only had about 2.5 hours of listening on them, and that the Anthem amp he was powering them with is typically a little brighter than my NAD M25 amp I will be using. Female Vocals Rocked, Imaging and Channel Separation was great, bass was much better than expected, we had the crossover set at 35 Hz. Then we tried to play movies so I could audition the C3 Center. After about 10 minutes we realized there was a bad cable from the BluRay player and the audio/video dropouts were too distracting. The C3 was plenty big for my setup and room, its plays a lot bigger than its smaller box would indicate. One only needs a C5 if you are buying S8's because they are so physically big that would simply look ridiculous next to the S6 in a HT setup.

Hope this helps anyone interested, looking for some advice still.
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post #27 of 46 Old 08-06-2009, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Now I am looking for a Dedicated CD SACD Player that is not limited to Stereo output only. Any advice here? I like the NAD M5, but other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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post #28 of 46 Old 08-11-2009, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I actually just ordered a C5 today. After looking at the S6 in my room, and knowing this will mostly be a HT area, I don't want to have any "what if's" floating around. There is plenty of room and I want to buy this stuff once and buy it right, so I will be exchanging the unopened C3 for a new C5 in about 10 days.
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post #29 of 46 Old 09-18-2009, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are some more pics now that the wine room and system is almost completely done:









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post #30 of 46 Old 09-19-2009, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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The last piece I am looking for is a good Ipod Music transport. The wadia interested me, but lack of on remote and on screen controls is a must for me. Anyone have any suggestions on a good quality, functional ipod transport?
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