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post #1 of 205 Old 09-07-2009, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been interested in home theater since the early 90's but have only experienced it in the family rooms of our homes. A little more than a year ago we purchased a new home with unfinished space that was immediately acquired for a real theater. I've also been learning a lot reading AVS Forum, mostly as a lurker. The DayDream Theater title comes from a bit too much day dreaming according to my wife. I really can't disagree with that so I've embraced it! Here are some particulars:

Room size is roughly 17 x 18 x 9 but will be slightly less when the framing is completed due to furring in from the foundation. All six surfaces (4 walls, ceiling and floor) will be insulated with walls and ceiling being double drywall.

Screen will be 130 inch diagonal (50 x 120) 2.40:1 cinemascope acoustically transparent and I plan to use the Panasonic AE3000U.

Speakers will be in-wall behind the screen or wall coverings. I plan to go with 7.1 sound (but haven't chosen equipment), PS3 and an HTPC at some point.

The wife who whole heartily supports the effort found theater seats being given away on Craigslist when the local IMAX was being re-equipped. They are in great shape as the IMAX did not allow food or drink in there. They'll be setup stadium style in three rows of five.

Separately from the theater will be a snack bar, equipment rack and bathroom.

A handy thing about having a wife who is a graphic designer is her creating a theater logo like this. She has created several. We'll pick a final choice at some point.



Fortunately I have a brother who is a contractor to work out the structural, electrical, plumbing, etc. requirements. I will do as much DIY as possible though. Here's a rough layout of the plan. I haven't spent the time to learn sketch up or one of the other drawing programs, I know I should. The snack bar area is still being developed.

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post #2 of 205 Old 09-07-2009, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
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First order of materials from Lowes was delivered and carried inside, on July 24. In the second picture you can see some of the theater seats in the background.




Construction started July 25 with forms and concrete poured for piers to support a beam across the middle of the floor and bolting in the rim joists.

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post #3 of 205 Old 09-07-2009, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
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On July 30 forms were stripped, the beam installed and joists were started.


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post #4 of 205 Old 09-07-2009, 10:09 PM - Thread Starter
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August 9 joists are done and sewer mainline supports re-hung on joists. Next up is HVAC and furring strips to hold insulation.




August 12 new HVAC line cut in and vents mounted. After a recent 2 week heat wave of 90+ everyday (with 2 days of 106+) we had central air installed last week. An upside is the theater benefits without direct impact to its budget!



August 14 furring strips done, and some insulation laid.


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post #5 of 205 Old 09-07-2009, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Some slow going getting the 1 1/8 inch plywood sub-floor cut and screwed down. Completed Sept. 6.

Left wall of theater with entrance and one hvac vent.



Right and part of back wall. Snack bar, bathroom, equipment rack, etc. will be behind this wall.



Test version of the 50 x 120 cinemascope 2.40:1 screen with two of the chairs in the approximate location of the front row. The overhead hvac will be re-routed between the ceiling joists.

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post #6 of 205 Old 09-08-2009, 06:40 AM
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Welcome to the insanity....

Your start looks amazing, I can't wait to follow your thread and see how things develop. Awesome find on the theater seats, those look incredible. I got mine on the cheap from a theater that was closing, but they are no where as nice as those.

Good luck, I'll be keeping an eye on your build.
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post #7 of 205 Old 09-08-2009, 07:03 PM
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You suck! That is totally too cool of a setup for one man to enjoy! Um, will you adopt me?

Television: Mitsubishi WD65737 DLP
Processor: Emotiva UMC-200
Amps: Carver AV 806x/Behringer EP4000
Mains: DCM TimeFrame 600 Center: AT 453C
Surrounds: AT 251.1 Sub: Danley DTS-10
Blu Ray: Panasonic DMP-BD655
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post #8 of 205 Old 09-08-2009, 07:14 PM
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The seats really were a find. Quite an undertaking. Great pics also. Would have taken pages to try and describe all of that concrete work.

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Originally Posted by dvmiller View Post

All six surfaces (4 walls, ceiling and floor) will be insulated with walls and ceiling being double drywall.

I assume the double drywall is for sound isolation. Are you containing those vents from escaping sound? That's often a last minute consideration but untreated ducts can really reduce isolation.

Just a quick observation. Thanks for posting this intersting build.

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post #9 of 205 Old 09-08-2009, 08:38 PM
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Dale,

A couple of questions for you

1. What are your seating distances from the screen for each of the rows?

2.How deep are you planning each of your risers? Using the traditional seats I'm guessing 5 to 5.5 ft each to acommodate chairs plus comfortable leg room?

Just wondering if it will ultimately put your front row too close to the screen.
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post #10 of 205 Old 09-09-2009, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bone_pa View Post

Welcome to the insanity....

Your start looks amazing, I can't wait to follow your thread and see how things develop. Awesome find on the theater seats, those look incredible. I got mine on the cheap from a theater that was closing, but they are no where as nice as those.

Thanks Bone. Getting the seats really started me going on the research and design. I saw what you're doing to rethread and refinish yours...they'll look great.
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post #11 of 205 Old 09-09-2009, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

You suck! That is totally too cool of a setup for one man to enjoy!

Thanks, but I've got a very long way to go to approach the other great theaters on AVS.
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post #12 of 205 Old 09-09-2009, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

The seats really were a find. Quite an undertaking. Great pics also. Would have taken pages to try and describe all of that concrete work.

I assume the double drywall is for sound isolation. Are you containing those vents from escaping sound? That's often a last minute consideration but untreated ducts can really reduce isolation.

Just a quick observation. Thanks for posting this intersting build.

Hello Ted, Thanks for your kind words.

What recommendations would you have regarding the ducts? The house has three floors with a zonal gate system that closes when the zone is not calling for hvac. Does this have any impact on the isolation? I can still access the vent piping from the crawlspace. The theater is on the lower level which does not have an air return duct and air just returns under the door at the top of the stairway. I will need a return to the rest of the floor from the theater and am concerned about how to do that without too much sound escaping.

I would appreciate and value your thoughts.

Dale
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post #13 of 205 Old 09-09-2009, 04:15 PM
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Hello Dale. There are suddenly quite a few active threads here about the topic of ventilation. The main issue is that the sound will obviously travel through the ducts. If this isn't an acoustically controlled process you will have undone a good bit of sound isolation.



For example, a person could open a 3" x 12" hole in a wall for a supply. You use flex duct to weave around until your flex supply joins up with the main house supply. IF the sound all stayed inside the 6" flex for the entire ride, we wouldn't have to worry. And IF all of the sound were absorbed by the R-5 insulation wrapping the duct we wouldn't have to worry.

But neither happens. Hi energy sound waves will exit your room through the vent opening in a ceiling and much if not most of it will keep on going. And there's the rub.

Info here: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/...cles/flanking/



This is from one our articles, but it illustrates how you want the air handling system to dump into a protected area like a soffit, column or chase.

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post #14 of 205 Old 09-09-2009, 05:04 PM
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You will definitely want an air return, or two in the theater. If you are going for sound proofing a gap under the door will not be acceptable and if you have no air return, you will have no flow. If you don't want to return air to the main return directly from the theater, you can set up a dead vent to the other room. I believe Ted has the instructions on his site. With using flex duct and a 'muffler' like configuration where you change the size of the pipe by quite a bit you can reduce the sound transmission.

Even if you are venting into another room, I bet you will want an HVAC return on the basement level. I am in no way an HVAC expert but in order to get enough flow a theater with equipment, projector and several people with just a crack under the door in another room sounds unlikely.

Again, Ted site is great with alot of information and ways to solve problems. The fact that you have a zoned system will probably make it easier to keep it comfortable (I wish I had one!)

This is one cool looking build! Keep up with all the pictures!

Greg
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post #15 of 205 Old 09-09-2009, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bone_pa View Post

Dale,

A couple of questions for you

1. What are your seating distances from the screen for each of the rows?

2.How deep are you planning each of your risers? Using the traditional seats I'm guessing 5 to 5.5 ft each to acommodate chairs plus comfortable leg room?

Just wondering if it will ultimately put your front row too close to the screen.

Good questions bone. My initial thoughts on seating distance have been influenced by McCall (and other theaters with similar size screens) who has a 51 x 120 2.35:1 screen. Her rows are 9.5' and 12.5' from the screen and she says the viewing is fine. Of course fine for one isn't always fine for another. I planned to have rows at 9'6, 13'1 and 16'9. A mock up of rows I did with the 44 spacing and a 12 riser allowed me (5'9) to comfortably stretch my legs out without bumping the row in front. This is more than the 36 spacing at the local theater we frequent, which isn't bad for a 2 hour movie. That being said I am concerned that the final distance I have after the walls are finished and screen mounted may be too close.

Another option would be to go with two rows: the first with 6 seats (leaving a 3' aisle on each end) and a second row of 8 or 9 seats, which would still be 15 total, not that I will very often (ever?) have that many people at once. That would allow the second row to be moved off the back wall, spacing between the rows could be more if needed and the first row would be 2+ feet further back. Then maybe I could even increase the screen size a bit!

Both options could work, I guess I've always thought the three rows seems more theater like to me and I would like at least the front row to feel immersed in the action on the screen. Clearly I will need to try some variations once I get further along and a projector.

Dale
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post #16 of 205 Old 09-09-2009, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

Hello Dale. There are suddenly quite a few active threads here about the topic of ventilation. The main issue is that the sound will obviously travel through the ducts. If this isn't an acoustically controlled process you will have undone a good bit of sound isolation.

Thanks Ted, I will defintely look at your website to educate myself on this.

Dale
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post #17 of 205 Old 09-09-2009, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scopeguy View Post

You will definitely want an air return, or two in the theater. If you are going for sound proofing a gap under the door will not be acceptable and if you have no air return, you will have no flow. If you don't want to return air to the main return directly from the theater, you can set up a dead vent to the other room. I believe Ted has the instructions on his site. With using flex duct and a 'muffler' like configuration where you change the size of the pipe by quite a bit you can reduce the sound transmission.

This is one cool looking build! Keep up with all the pictures!

Thanks Greg for the info and your compliments. I have been following and admiring your thread as well.

Dale
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post #18 of 205 Old 09-24-2010, 10:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I was dealt a six month bout with back and siatic nerve pain that started in December 2009. By the time I recovered enough to do anything it was outside yard project time. The last week of August I was finally able to restart work on the theater.

With alot of time to think, research, plan, etc. I did make some decisions. I have decided to go with 14 seats in the theater in two rows. The front row will have 6 and the back 8. This simplifies the riser structure and may allow for a larger screen as well.



For control of the theater's electronic components I plan to use the iRule universal remote control for the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad. http://www.iruleathome.com/
They also have a thread here on AVS: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1124844&page=1

For lighting control I will be using X10 hardware. I know it's an old mid-70's technology that many people think is obsolete and too unreliable to use. In my research and reading the X10 forums, if one utilizes two things they can have a reliable system that costs a small fraction of other brands of automation. The first thing is the XTB signal booster & repeater by Jeff Volp of JV Digital Engineering: http://jvde.us/xtb/XTBR_description.htm The second is a modification to add a better antenna to the X10 CM15A controller. There are several threads about this on the X10 forums: http://forums.x10.com/. I haven't found this mod necessary so far as I have a good signal from two floors away. X10 also this week introduced a iPhone software they call ActivePhone that works through your home Wi-Fi network. In the theater I will use the iRule for controlling the lighting.

Dale
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post #19 of 205 Old 09-24-2010, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Over Labor Day weekend more concrete was poured, this time for supports of the floor joists in what will be the bar/lounge area.





On September 12th I helped my contractor install the rough-in plumbing. I'm now in the process of insulating the water lines, installing an HVAC vent in the lounge, then insulation and subfloor.

Dale
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post #20 of 205 Old 09-25-2010, 08:26 AM
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Sorry to hear about the nerve problems. Glad you're back on your feet and the theater is back underway.

Bryan

I am serious...and don't call me Shirley.
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post #21 of 205 Old 09-26-2010, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvmiller View Post


Test version of the 50 x 120 cinemascope 2.40:1 screen with two of the chairs in the approximate location of the front row. The overhead hvac will be re-routed between the ceiling joists.


The biggest mistake many people here make is underestimating their screen size. A screen can sound HUGE on paper compared to an average 50" LCD. A larger screen to accommodate a large space such as yours might be necessary. I only make that statement if the mockup of the screen is in accurate dimensions. Perhaps it could be that or the angle makes the screen appear tiny in such a great room.
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post #22 of 205 Old 09-26-2010, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote=bpape;19242906]Sorry to hear about the nerve problems. Glad you're back on your feet and the theater is back underway.

Thanks Bryan. It sure gives me empathy for others who have chronic back issues.

This weekend completed HVAC vent and insulation for floor. Now putting down the plywood subfloor.

Dale
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post #23 of 205 Old 09-26-2010, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Rockstar, yeah I've been thinking since deciding to go with two rows of seating instead of three that I'll want to go bigger with the screen. I'm thinking 60" x 144" perhaps. Need a little space on each side for curtains. I know light output of the projector (planning on Panasonic AE4000) can be a factor but, the room will be completely light contolled.

Dale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvmiller View Post

Hi Rockstar, yeah I've been thinking since deciding to go with two rows of seating instead of three that I'll want to go bigger with the screen. I'm thinking 60" x 144" perhaps. Need a little space on each side for curtains. I know light output of the projector (planning on Panasonic AE4000) can be a factor but, the room will be completely light contolled.

Dale

Great! I can't comment on the AE4000 but the build is looking great!

Total control of a room's light is a big plus and a big help. I am no expert but if you're planning on using the zoom method or lens method for CIH, light output and screen size can play a role.
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post #25 of 205 Old 09-27-2010, 11:57 AM
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This looks like it's going to be a great build to keep an eye on. Can't wait to see the updates!

why read a book when you can watch a movie about it?
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post #26 of 205 Old 09-27-2010, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvmiller View Post

With alot of time to think, research, plan, etc. I did make some decisions. I have decided to go with 14 seats in the theater in two rows. The front row will have 6 and the back 8. This simplifies the riser structure and may allow for a larger screen as well.


It sounds like from the previous posts that you are putting some serious effort into the acoustics of this room. With that in mind I would like to make some general suggestions...
  • If you have not already done it, you should spend some time over at http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/, the articles there are great for learning how to address sound isolation issues.
  • You should start planning your acoustic treatments now, since they will take up floor and wall space. There is lots of info available here to help with a basic design if you are willing to do the research. You could also hire someone to come up with a treatment plan specifically for your room.

...and some specific suggestions...
  • The rear row of seats should not be right up against the back wall. You don't want someone that close to a wall. Even if it is acoustically treated, if they are within 12" the sound will get distorted due to reflections. I would suggest you leave at least 18" of space back there.
  • You mentioned that you didn't foresee having 14 people in there. In that case you might want to forgo 2 of the rear chairs (the ones up against the walls), for the same reason as above. It may not be an issue, since the seats may never be used, but it is something to think about.
  • If sound isolation is a goal, then you probably should re-think the in-wall speakers. The main method for sound isolation is to minimize openings in the wall. That is why you see soffits and columns in a lot of theaters, it allows people to run wiring, put in can lights, and hide surround speakers without putting holes in the walls.

I am looking forward to watching this build, and keeping my fingers crossed you don't have any more painful back issues.

Chris

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--Despair, Inc. "Regret"

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post #27 of 205 Old 09-30-2010, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Chris for your comments & ideas.

I have looked at the soundproofingcompany and plan to use their ideas for both the hvac vents and return.

The acoustic treatments will likey be diy after some more research as, even though this is a rather large project I am somewhat limited on budget so, thanks to AVS for all the great recommendations.

I've seen others mention the concern of seats close to the walls too so, will consider that when constructing the riser.

I already have the seats so will probably go with them. Although mostly it will just be a few of us, there will be some times when it'll be a full house.

While I am doing some things for sound it's not a big deal as the bedrooms are two floors away. In-wall speakers do have their drawbacks but, I prefer the invisable appearance (overall look & waf) and am willing to sacrifice some for that.

Dale
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post #28 of 205 Old 10-01-2010, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvmiller View Post

With alot of time to think, research, plan, etc. I did make some decisions. I have decided to go with 14 seats in the theater in two rows. The front row will have 6 and the back 8. This simplifies the riser structure and may allow for a larger screen as well.



Dale

I didn't see how high your riser was, but this seating arrangement may cause problems with sight lines. I would generally stagger the back row 1/2 seat so that heads in front don't block shorter viewers in back.
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post #29 of 205 Old 10-01-2010, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi jayn_j,

I was thinking the riser would be 14-15 inches. These seats do have a higher back than most as they came out of an Omnimax. With that in mind it may require more spacing, raising the screen, etc. I do have a 9 ft ceiling so, I could increase the riser height. Will have to experiment I guess. Staggering the seating might be good too - Thanks

Dale
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post #30 of 205 Old 02-13-2011, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry its been so long since my last update but, I've been busy down here. Framing of the snack bar, bathroom and equipment rack has been completed. This photo looks toward the entrance which will be opened through the wall straight ahead. On the immediate left is the bathroom and on the left just before the entrance will be the dual stack rack.

Looking the other way toward the bar with the bathroom on the right.

In the theater the furring walls left and rear are done. The ugly hanging hvac lines (for upper floor) have been rerouted between joists leaving just the framed triangles in the rear corners.

Next up is the furring/false wall for the screen wall. Then I can start on the electrical, a/v cabling, etc.
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