Deadwood Theater Comes Alive - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 190 Old 09-14-2014, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I wanted a) not to cut holes in the ceiling, b) total flexibility for aiming, c) no shiny trim or logos. Matt black disappears.
Did you install them in a stud on the ceiling or use these?

http://www.lowes.com/pd_68734-2191-2...ductId=3323542
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post #182 of 190 Old 09-14-2014, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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They say you need a transformer also they are cheaper than the other ones, does that mean not as good quality or sound?
No need for a transformer. That's an option for large distribution systems. I ordered mine without the transformers.

Maybe they cost less because they are not weatherproof, or maybe they sell more cause they look nice. Compare the detailed spec sheets to see the performance differences. The drivers are not 100% identical in size, for example. The response and SPL limits are a little different IIRC.

I used EZ anchors. I added a thin layer of rubber between the U-bracket and the ceiling to ensure it does not buzz with vibration.

Deadwood theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs

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post #183 of 190 Old 09-15-2014, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
No need for a transformer. That's an option for large distribution systems. I ordered mine without the transformers.

Maybe they cost less because they are not weatherproof, or maybe they sell more cause they look nice. Compare the detailed spec sheets to see the performance differences. The drivers are not 100% identical in size, for example. The response and SPL limits are a little different IIRC.

I used EZ anchors. I added a thin layer of rubber between the U-bracket and the ceiling to ensure it does not buzz with vibration.
Good I just wanted to make sure that they won't fall off if I do that as well. If I can only put one pair of ATMOS on ceiling should it be in front or in the back Any suggestion?
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post #184 of 190 Old 09-15-2014, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Good I just wanted to make sure that they won't fall off if I do that as well. If I can only put one pair of ATMOS on ceiling should it be in front or in the back Any suggestion?
I would say to follow the Dolby guidelines for top-middle.

Deadwood theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #185 of 190 Old 09-17-2014, 04:39 PM
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I would say to follow the Dolby guidelines for top-middle.
Top middle so that's in the middle of the ceiling!

Hum do you think four ATMOS in a 13 x 11 x 9 is too much I have 7 at ear level?

I found these that should work well with the seven LS50! KEF E301



They have the same type of drivers as the LS50


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post #186 of 190 Old 10-23-2014, 08:14 AM
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Rodger:

I will be interested in the results you obtain when upgrading to Atmos. It appears as though your sides/rears are mounted high on on the wall so the angular separation between them and the ceiling speakers is not huge.

I have the same issue. The tweeters of my sides/rears is right about 6 feet - which was the recommended height when the world only knew about 7.x. While I could lower the surrounds it would not be without substantive mess and expense. I think my room is a good bit larger than yours (22 x 19 x 8) but I'm still concerned about this issue in my room.

Lastly, I have been looking at celing speakers as well and was concernned that the Tannoys that you selected were a bit large. After seeing them in your room, they aren't exactly invisible

Also, I very much appreciate your contributions to this forum.

When are you expecting your 7200 (which is probably what I will purchase as well)?

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post #187 of 190 Old 10-23-2014, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I will be interested in the results you obtain when upgrading to Atmos. It appears as though your sides/rears are mounted high on on the wall so the angular separation between them and the ceiling speakers is not huge.
The FH/TH speakers are 40° elevation. I will use them as FH so I can hear Neo:X. But will also try TH to see if that alters the result.

The rear speakers are elevated 130° (the TR zone said to be 125-150°), which, being a 10° higher angle of incidence than the fronts, may seem steep, but it is just 30° above the surround "plane" which is elevated 20° for all 4 surround speakers. I think a 30 deg offset is adequate to distinguish the heights from the surrounds.

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I have the same issue. The tweeters of my sides/rears is right about 6 feet - which was the recommended height when the world only knew about 7.x. While I could lower the surrounds it would not be without substantive mess and expense. I think my room is a good bit larger than yours (22 x 19 x 8) but I'm still concerned about this issue in my room.
While the common wisdom is to align tweeters to ear level for front speakers, or aim tweeters to the head, that's all about ensuring the frequency response is not degraded. The acoustic center of a speaker is not the tweeter axis, but closer to the midrange. So your imaging elevation might be a bit lower than you think. And with your wider room, that too lowers the effective angle.

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Lastly, I have been looking at celing speakers as well and was concernned that the Tannoys that you selected were a bit large. After seeing them in your room, they aren't exactly invisible
You should see them with the lights off. Invisible.

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Also, I very much appreciate your contributions to this forum.When are you expecting your 7200 (which is probably what I will purchase as well)?
My hat is off to you as well, sir. I have been following your blind A/B thread. I, too, suffer expectation bias, and I bought the SSP-800 to get access to HDMI content and PEQ. But I was hoping it would not sound too much worse than the Tag McLaren AV32DP I'd been using since it trounced an older Meridian 861 I was using. Imagine my surprise when the SSP acquitted itself with a degree of textural detail I was just not expecting. Knocked me out, in a good way.

My dealer buddy will turn one around for me the minute he can lay hands on one. I'm expecting it will be very soon, as they are in the US.

Deadwood theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #188 of 190 Old 10-23-2014, 03:16 PM
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Rodger:

In my case the tweeter and midrange are concentric so it is what it is.

The A/B testing was really interesting for me. (1) While I heard differences in the various combinations, they were MUCH, MUCH smaller than what I heard when not listening blind and level matched (and while not a big surprise, the prettier, heavier, cooler, newer, slicker Datasat was almost always the clear winner when not listening blind); (2) I had no clue that 1/2 db difference in volume would make such a huge difference; (3) The Integra with Audyssey, while not equal to the Datasat and Dirac, did amazingly, amazingly well at about 1/10th the price; (4) the ability to discern differences decrease quickly as the number of channels increases (when not using room correction). In fact, I could hear zero difference when all channels were perfectly matched. That's why we did the initial test with 2 channels and no room correction.

Lastly, why have you selected the 7200 versus one of the other models?

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post #189 of 190 Old 10-23-2014, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
In my case the tweeter and midrange are concentric so it is what it is.
Ahh!

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I had no clue that 1/2 db difference in volume would make such a huge difference;
Yes, we found the same back when there was a war between Dolby and DTS on DVD. I think Interview with a Vampire and Twister have such a 0.5 dB difference.

How are you measuring the levels? SPL meter with sine wave, SPL with noise? Sine wave electrical measurement?

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Lastly, why have you selected the 7200 versus one of the other models?
The 7702 is the cheapest processor with 7.2.4 and XT32.

Deadwood theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #190 of 190 Old 10-23-2014, 06:15 PM
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How are you measuring the levels? SPL meter with sine wave, SPL with noise? Sine wave electrical measurement?

The 7702 is the cheapest processor with 7.2.4 and XT32.
We used OmniMic and it provides a frequency sweep. We can then measure one against the other, expand the resolution on the charts so that 1/2db is the base and compare them. That is how I aligned the two systems so the volume matached EXACTLY!!

And that is also how I get each of the 7 channels matched perfectly for channel balanc. I have to set the smoothing to 1/3 octave since the channels do not look exactly alike after Audyssey or Dirac does its thing. Audyssey does a good job but I end up making changes to most of the channels by .5 to 1 db using this method.

Thanks for the note on the 7702. I have a friend who can get me one of those at reduced pricing. (Unless Datasat has an 80% off sale).

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