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post #1 of 397 Old 09-18-2009, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Because so many at AVS Forums has helped me over the years - I'm creating my Construction thread. Wihout some of the threads over the last 2 years - I wouldn't even have attempted this... So thanks and enjoy!

I'll try and post plenty of updates and pictures.

Please comment, suggest, recommend, critique, and generally encourage. I'm by no means an expert and have a really thick skin. Really, I'm not quite sure what I have got myself into, but I hope I like it in the end.

(Full View from Back - I've got 8.5' to the top of the joists and 8' to the top of that beam)


(Screen Wall - 2.35:1)


(Back Wall)



My Neighborhood - it's called "New Urbanism":

http://mychv.com/public/index.php?op...tpage&Itemid=1
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post #2 of 397 Old 09-18-2009, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Equipment List for Theater (To Date)

Onkyo PR-SC885
Anthem MCA 50
Anthem MCA 20 **UPDATED 11/25/09**
Paradigm Studio 100's v4
Paradigm Studio 690 v4 (it's a beast)
Paradigm ADP 390's (these will be replaced)
Sony BDP350 Blu-ray
Oppo 981HD DVD Player
Oppo BD-83 BluRay **Updated 11/25/09**
APC Surge/Conditioner J15
Velodyne DD-15 **Updated 12/2/09**
Middle Atlantic ERK-4025 **Updated 12/1/09**
JVC RS25 Projector **Updated 01/13/09**
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post #3 of 397 Old 09-18-2009, 10:28 AM
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Great looking project. It looks like you have room to center up the seating a little bit more. What it the width of the aisle as drawn? Don't lock yourself in by building that step so large. It looks a chair and a 1/2 wide. A chair width is plenty.

Also what is the viewing distance to the front row, it looks a little tight. Not sure of the decision to use that much space for false wall given that you are trying to fit 2 rows and bar seating into this space. How deep is the riser? You need much more than the advertised chair dimensions because your feet hang over the bottom.

If you moved the screen closer to the front wall you could go a little bigger, looks like you are thinking about a 2.35.
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post #4 of 397 Old 09-18-2009, 10:31 AM
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That looks like a lot of HVAC items and water heater on the left side of the pics. Any plans for isolating the sound. And what is with the HVAC run on the left side of the screen?

Give gear though-especially the Paradigms!!

Understanding the unexplainable"
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post #5 of 397 Old 09-18-2009, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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BTW, love your thread BIG... It's one the ones I constantly look at... BEAUTIFUL THEATER!

The width of the isle is about 31" - measuring from the back row chair and 46" from the front row chair. So I guess I could get it down a little. Nice catch. I was thinking of doing the step 12", with a smaller step at 6". So you think one step would be enough?

I am also thinking of moving the false wall back about a foot, but the Velodyne DD-15 is 17.75" and I'll have those encased below, so wanted to give a little breathing room for the speakers since I'm going with the SMX 110" ProCurve. Maybe 2' will be enough. Good catch on the feet... I didn't think about the feet hanging over - I am 6" 1".



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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Great looking project. It looks like you have room to center up the seating a little bit more. What it the width of the aisle as drawn? Don't lock yourself in by building that step so large. It looks a chair and a 1/2 wide. A chair width is plenty.

Also what is the viewing distance to the front row, it looks a little tight. Not sure of the decision to use that much space for false wall given that you are trying to fit 2 rows and bar seating into this space. How deep is the riser? You need much more than the advertised chair dimensions because your feet hang over the bottom.

If you moved the screen closer to the front wall you could go a little bigger, looks like you are thinking about a 2.35.

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post #6 of 397 Old 09-18-2009, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey alpha View Post

That looks like a lot of HVAC items and water heater on the left side of the pics. Any plans for isolating the sound. And what is with the HVAC run on the left side of the screen?

Give gear though-especially the Paradigms!!

It's a TON of HVAC. The run on the left is a fresh air intake - it will be moved over to accmodate the wall coming flush to the wall next to the Hot Water Heaters. The main issue is that after that first beam to the front wall is SOLID HVAC, so I have to bring the ceiling down using RISC clips I imagine with DD/GG. Not sure how else to do it AND preserve headroom. Good news is that the ceiling rises to where the back row riser will be. So same headroom for the front row and back row. Any thoughts on how best to isolate other than using RISC clips and hat track? Can't do the joists within a joist - too much HVAC and it's a 21' foot run. I'm doing double studs with DD/GG on the interior theater walls - so it should isolate the sound of the 2 heaters. I do have to move those copper pipes coming from the Air Conditioners outside to the Heating system. The guys coming over next week to move them inside - add 5' of copper and reroute behind wall.

Thanks for thoughts - you don't know how much I appreciate it.
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post #7 of 397 Old 09-18-2009, 11:14 AM
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This is an ideal scenario for creating a decoupled soffit that also attenuates the sound travelling through a duct


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post #8 of 397 Old 09-18-2009, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

This is an ideal scenario for creating a decoupled soffit that also attenuates the sound travelling through a duct


So Ted, since you are in Midland and I'm in Canton, MI, you should come on over.

So since I can't create a soffit - the duct work in in the joists, then I'll need to clip the joists and then DD/GG from there. I'll lost about 4" or so right? Or what's the minimum amount of distance using those clips and hat track?

Thanks!
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post #9 of 397 Old 09-18-2009, 11:25 AM
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You start the grille. I'll be right over.

Clips + channel loses 1 5/8"

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post #10 of 397 Old 09-18-2009, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

You start the grille. I'll be right over.

Clips + channel loses 1 5/8"

That's my solution then.. it's going to give me the decoupling and not take up too much distance. Now to find a sheetrock guy that knows how to put them up. I'm doing the framing, but not going to even attempt the sheetrock and ceiling.
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post #11 of 397 Old 09-18-2009, 11:47 AM
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Just find a sheetrock guy. Previous clip experience isn't necessary

You'll still have to deal with that ventilation. If you simply cut a hole in the ceoiling to access a duct in the joist cavity, you'll bleed sound like crazy

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post #12 of 397 Old 09-18-2009, 12:35 PM
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if only the HVAC guys knew what they were going to do to you when they put all that stuff up....the sleepless nights.....those long sleepless nights worrying about losing 1 5/8" of headroom!!

Understanding the unexplainable"
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post #13 of 397 Old 09-18-2009, 12:40 PM
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This is an interesting problem!!


Understanding the unexplainable"
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post #14 of 397 Old 09-18-2009, 12:40 PM
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I'm certainly no expert here but will offer my opinion....(your room size is very close to mine 22'6" x 12'9"). Like Big said, looks pretty close from screen to front row...I'd be tempted to lose that back bar row and move your first two rows further back. You could probably go with closer to a 115-120" or more screen size then, but you'd probably only get 3 seats in the second row though. Depends on what's more important to you.

Here's my dimensions/layout as a reference (Big helped me with this). The jut out on your back wall is what would probably keep you from the 4th seat there if you went with something similar. Just an idea.

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post #15 of 397 Old 09-18-2009, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey alpha View Post

This is an interesting problem!!


2 solutions:

1. it's by the mud room and there is one in there already, so eliminate it.
2. build a small soffit around it since it's over the bar area, it should be o.k...

Not sure of the one I am going with - but 1 is attractive.
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post #16 of 397 Old 09-19-2009, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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So we are starting to frame and I had a quick question - I see how to build the false wall - got that part, but do I frame behind the false wall and sheetrock that then add linacoustic? Or do I just leave the exposed wall and put linacoustic on the exposed concrete? I assume that I frame it and sheetrock it - since it will leak sound and negate the decoupling of all the other walls and ceiling.
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post #17 of 397 Old 09-22-2009, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Pulled the trigger today with Ted and John on the following: (no turning back now)

3 pails of GG with Speedloader
1 case of Silenseal
65 WhisperClips
27 DC04's

A little dent in the Home Theater budget, but I have to believe all of this will be well worth it in the end. I told John today that the purchase comes "with lots of calls for advice, instruction and general help, right?"

Framing starts bright and early on Thursday!

Whoo Hoo!
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post #18 of 397 Old 09-22-2009, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotto View Post

I'm certainly no expert here but will offer my opinion....(your room size is very close to mine 22'6" x 12'9"). Like Big said, looks pretty close from screen to front row...I'd be tempted to lose that back bar row and move your first two rows further back. You could probably go with closer to a 115-120" or more screen size then, but you'd probably only get 3 seats in the second row though. Depends on what's more important to you.

Here's my dimensions/layout as a reference (Big helped me with this). The jut out on your back wall is what would probably keep you from the 4th seat there if you went with something similar. Just an idea.


Thanks for your opinion.. I needed to hear this from some of the "experts". I have nixed the bar and will go with two nice roomy rows of seats.
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post #19 of 397 Old 09-26-2009, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Well Day 1 of the framing has closed. Man am I wiped - I'm not used to working over my head all day (in so many ways). The duct work posed some problems - but we solved them all. Framing in all the duct work was more difficult that we thought. Got some great workarounds for some difficult positions, but all in all, it went well. I need to go take some Alleve..

We used 2 1/2" Stax Screws for each and 2x4 on the soffit and 3" x 1/4" Tapcons on the plates against the wall. Now we need to come back to the beam and tie back up to the ceiling in the back of the theater. Should be an easy day tomorrow. Hope to have the rest of the soffit done in the fron of the theater and all of the 1x3 strapping/furring done on the ceiling in the back of the theater. Then, hopefully, we can start laying out the Whisper Clips.

My thoughts are - with help from Ted and John at The SoundProofing Company, is to couple the soffit to the joists and then decouple the ceiling with Whisper Clips and the walls will tie into the Soffit using the DC04's. With the DD & GG, R19 in the ceiling and R13 in the walls....I hope this will be well decoupled.

Walls are next...

I took Monday and Tuesday off so we can at least get the walls finished.

Ahead of schedule in my opinion, but I am sure we'll get sucked in to some problem.

Before we started with Pipes from the AC in the way:



Pipes Moved over to accomodate North Wall:


Finished Main Soffit:



A fun one - Me Testing the Strength of our work!

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post #20 of 397 Old 09-28-2009, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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O.k. well we got the soffit done...



I have a quick question in the use of the DC04's. Seems like a simple one, but just want to make sure I got this right.

In order to frame the soffit around the duct work, I had to put one small 3 foot section "tapcon'd" into the concrete, then attached the stringers on to that. Is there an issue putting the clips off of that 2x4 on the concrete wall? I assume it decoupled just fine, but just need a final "yep, that'll work" before we frame out the rest.



(The pictures show the DC04's a few inches off the end of the wall - disgard this, as this was just to "tack" them up - seems like the plugs they put in the basement walls to seal the cracks weren't working, so they are coming tomorrow to fix them, in the meantime, I didn't want to hold up the framing, so we tacked them up so we could get measurements.) The walls are also 1" off of the soffit and the concrete walls. I assume that's enough.

Thanks,

Mark
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post #21 of 397 Old 09-28-2009, 06:05 PM
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That's great, Mark. Fine to use that ledger board as a DC-04 attachment point. The clips are flexible with respect to different applications like that.

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post #22 of 397 Old 09-30-2009, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Just as an FYI to anyone in the Michigan area - Great Lakes Gypsum and Supply has the 7/8" Hat Channel. It measures exactly 2 1/2" and 1 1/4" for the channel with a 7/8" rise.
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post #23 of 397 Old 09-30-2009, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marklabelle870 View Post

So Ted, since you are in Midland and I'm in Canton, MI, you should come on over.

All right!!! Another Michigan build.

I agree that that 52 degree viewing angle from the front row would have been a bit much. If you are set on the AT screen, then ya, I would move that front row back too. I have the 3rd row bar but my sceen is on my front wall.

When I started out in an empty room I was thinking 80, 90, or 100 inch screen (looking hard at an 88" screen). I ended up with a 125" 2.35. If at all possible, don't lock yourself into a screen size until you have a chance to sit in the actual positions with an image on the wall. The screen was one of my very last purchases.

Lastly, I think any lumber touching concrete should be treated lumber. I can't tell from your pictures if the base of your walls are but those tapped to the wall appear clearly not to be. I have a "dry" basement but I still used treated any where it touched the concrete.

Good luck and keep the pics coming.

Man, that took longer than I thought it would...

Loganed 4/6/08 Logan's Hero 5/1/08

RPh Drew's INDEXED Thread - Logan's Hero... for now...

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post #24 of 397 Old 10-01-2009, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPh Drew View Post

Lastly, I think any lumber touching concrete should be treated lumber. I can't tell from your pictures if the base of your walls are but those tapped to the wall appear clearly not to be. I have a "dry" basement but I still used treated any where it touched the concrete.
Good luck and keep the pics coming.

Agreed - even if you have a dry basement all concrete has a certain amount of moisture in it. You are asking for rot with untreated wood.
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post #25 of 397 Old 10-01-2009, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote=RPh Drew;17276817]All right!!! Another Michigan build.

When I started out in an empty room I was thinking 80, 90, or 100 inch screen (looking hard at an 88" screen). I ended up with a 125" 2.35. If at all possible, don't lock yourself into a screen size until you have a chance to sit in the actual positions with an image on the wall. The screen was one of my very last purchases.


This is great advice.. I never thought about getting the screen last. Thanks! Makes perfect sense. I am thinking about a 110" wide viewable SMX, but that might change. I am going with the ProCurve 2.35:1 though no matter the size.

Thanks again!
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post #26 of 397 Old 10-04-2009, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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So the first week of framing is complete. I'm exhausted! Why didn't anyone remind me that I should just sub this out instead of trying to save money.

Had some challenges this week.

Challenge #1 - the soffit in the rear of the theater?



We ended up building a soffit around it - however now that I think of it - it's coupled to the ceiling and wall - after I spent so much time decoupling the whole room. Not sure what to do at this point. We did replace the rigid duct work and put in 4' of flexi-duct. Man, for 4', I had to buy 25' - so I think I will use the rest to replace as much of the rigid with flexi - but I'm not going to go too far. It's a pain working up there in the joists.

Use of DC-04's on the walls:



Use of Whisperclips on the ceiling and soffit:



Other challenges includes the fact that NOTHING in this basement was square, so each ceiling soffit stringer, each stud, etc. had to be measured and cut. What a pain in the butt. At one point, I just begged for a level ANYTHING. Shoot, I thought maybe my level was off...and it wasn't the walls, floors, ceiling joists....

Some pictures of the room nearly complete - framing:

Use of SilenSeal on the plates and joints:



From the rear - outside the theater:



From inside facing the front wall:



From the front facing the rear - theater door on the right-center of the picture (32" Exterior Grade door going in):



Anyone, first phase nearly complete. I have the following left to do:

1. Tapcon the back walls completely (I only did a couple to level the walls)
2. DC-04's the back left wall
3. 2 pieces of strapping for the WhisperClips around that small soffit in the rear
4. Call the electrician for the wiring
5. Pick up Hat Track at Great Lakes Gysum Supply

FYI - final dimensions - this included about 3" for the 2 layers of 5/8" drywall are:

13' 4" x 20' 5" (Not bad... I could've squeeze out more inches by using 2x3's on the main soffit, but man the walls and floor were so off, I really couldn't gain all that much anyway.)

Any ideas on decoupling that soffit in the back would be a great help! And if you could also send some Alleve and BenGay-that would be nice too!

Thanks,

Mark
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post #27 of 397 Old 10-05-2009, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Budget Update:

Lumber = $305.73
Home Depot (More lumber, Screws, Backer Board, Bits, Plywood, etc.) = $372.61
HVAC (moving of AC pipes) = $650
Soundproofing (SoundProofing Company - Green Glue, Silenseal, DC-04's and Whisperclips) = $1161.66

Total so far: $3,300.47
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post #28 of 397 Old 10-06-2009, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is my first pass the stage - any feedback appreciated:



I am not sure how to build it to allow for a future motorized curtain and also fit the SMX ProCurv screen. Some type of window "box" I imagine with enought depth and width around the screen to accmomdate for the motorized mechanism and the curtain to "stack" on each side.

I hate math!

Mark
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post #29 of 397 Old 10-06-2009, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's the latest Electrical Plan:

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post #30 of 397 Old 10-07-2009, 06:22 AM
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Looking good, nice to get framing out of the way.
Thought of a couple of ideas that you may consider which I did as part of my build:

1) Switch for the outlets behind your screen wall. I like the idea of being able to switch those off, not knowing right now what I will have plugged into them (sub type etc.) That gives you the ability to save some power since most devices draw something even in standby.
2) Put a couple of outlets behind your first row seating on the face of your riser for if/when you decide to get power recliners.
3) Consider another ceiling outlet for track lighting if you're not putting additional cans in your ceiling (I didn't want to deal with recessed cans), and hook it up as a GE zone if you can. You may find that you won't have enough lighting with just the 4 sconces. I have 7 sconces but am still concerned about having enough light.
4) Not an audio expert but, shouldn't your L/R surrounds be behind the first row ears? Maybe you have them where they are due to the rear wall jutting out?

Hope some of this is of value to you.
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