Urban Legend Theater construction thread - AVS Forum
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Dedicated Theater Design & Construction > Urban Legend Theater construction thread
NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 11:02 PM 11-23-2009
Finishing my basement. Layout is attached. Had a few updates via photoshop so don't mind the lighting plan (or other) inconsistencies. Materials are being delivered tomorrow. Working with a contractor/friend so progress should happen quickly. Hope to have some pics up soon. I'm sure to have a lot of questions for you guys along the way. Questions/comments welcome.

Wall constructiom for the theater will be DD with GG on a staggared stud wall (2x6 plates and 2x4 staggered studs) for 3 of the 4 walls. The wall against the foundation will be a regular 2x4 wall with DD and GG. Ceiling will use clips and channel with DD and GG. Insulation throughout. Both soffits will contain duct supply runs. It is rigid duct but it will be lined on the interior.

Take a look at the pic. First question I have is, notice the bump out on the back wall? That is the support for the masonry fireplace on the 1st floor. Should I just put a straight wall in front of it or should I try to use the cutout for something inside the theater?

I started a checklist in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1188480

Then someone pointed me to this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1043747

I've been using them as references for my build so far.



BIGmouthinDC's Avatar BIGmouthinDC 06:36 AM 11-24-2009
You could put your equipment stack in the bump out. I don't see a spot picked for that.

It would be a good idea to do a preliminary floor plan of the theater to be sure everything is going to work. Show the seating locations, viewing distances, screen size, location of stage, riser, columns, speakers and equipment. The last thing you want to happen is to wish you had built it 10 inches deeper once you have your drywall up.

I'll be the first of many to caution you on the use of a double door which will be harder to soundproof.

I might rethink the bar location as it is plunked down smack in the middle of that big area making it difficult to put a pool table etc in there. It looks like you have alternatives so just something to think about.
NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 07:18 AM 11-24-2009
Thanks Bigmouth!

The bumpout is completely encased in concrete block. I'd be afraid of the heat in there. There probably would be enough room to snake the exhaust and wires through a rear soffit but I was thinkin of placing the rack in the top left corner of the Family Room. There will be built ins along that top wall. I would use a dual out system to control both the family room tv and the theater. This way, you could play PS3, watch a movie or tv, etc in either location.

The bar is not to scale obviously. I just plopped it in there myself with paint so I could get the thread up. There will be enough room between the gym and the bar for pool/air hockey, foosball, darts, etc.

Wife wants double doors. I'll make the call at framing time. (probably this weekend). Drawing is just to submit for the permits. My buddy is trying to talk me out of the double doors also. Either way, the doors need to move to the left some more. Right now they are too close to the screen wall/stage.

Right now, I've allowed 2 feet between the room wall and the screen wall. Do you think that is sufficient? That leaves the finished space about 25X16.

You are right that there are a lot of options. I've agonized over the layout for weeks/months (feels like years. lost sleep over it. I've seen floor plans in my dreams). All feedback.questions are welcome. Because walls start going up on Friday!!!

EDIT: BTW, I was thinking of using that dead space just below the stairs (where it says 8' and just to the left of the Furnace 'F') for a wine closet. Thoughts?
NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 08:04 AM 11-24-2009
OK Big. You have me walking around in the basement again. lol. Thank god it's a slow week at work. Where would you put the bar area? Here are some (crappy iphone) pics of the space. We are doing a bunch of 'old work' on HVAC to make sure all the runs are in soffits. The one you see down the center of the theater will be moved to the foundation wall.

Bathroom looking towards Gym


Gym looking towards Bathroom


Theater looking towards Family Room/Storage


Storage/Family Room looking towards Theater

BIGmouthinDC's Avatar BIGmouthinDC 08:42 AM 11-24-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Jackals View Post

Where would you put the bar area?

May not be to exact scale but you get the idea. It leaves the most open areas for all your current and future game machines. I would also plan a soffit over the entire bar area to set it off. you also could do a round version in the same space if you wanted to tackle that.


NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 09:15 AM 11-24-2009
I do like the idea of anchoring the bar against a wall. I was just downstairs measuring those exact spaces. I'd have to see if I can pitch the sink drain enough to make it all the way over to the bathroom. Thank you for the suggestion.
budk's Avatar budk 09:26 AM 11-24-2009
Another vote to eliminate the double door - unless you do it right (read $$$) you will have a problem with sound leakage. Given the rest of your space, I assume you will want to use the theater as well as have other activities so do not under-estimate the need for sound containment.

Best of luck.
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar BIGmouthinDC 10:58 AM 11-24-2009
If you can't pitch it enough you can always use the reservoir under the sink with a pump out that goes up an over. They make these devices just for this situation, They are designed for wet bars and washing machines etc where the drain line is far away. It is kind of a miniature sump pump system that sits in a bucket under the sink. Good enough for a wet bar.
fotto's Avatar fotto 11:56 AM 11-24-2009
I just bought this one (approx $200). Very small and can do internal trap.
http://www.zoellerpumps.com/ProductB...x?ProductID=62

You'll need an external vent though if you can't tie into an existing one. Most of these don't want a AAV used and your local code may also prohibit it.
jamis's Avatar jamis 12:41 PM 11-24-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotto View Post

I just bought this one (approx $200). Very small and can do internal trap.
http://www.zoellerpumps.com/ProductB...x?ProductID=62

You'll need an external vent though if you can't tie into an existing one. Most of these don't want a AAV used and your local code may also prohibit it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

If you can't pitch it enough you can always use the reservoir under the sink with a pump out that goes up an over. They make these devices just for this situation, They are designed for wet bars and washing machines etc where the drain line is far away. It is kind of a miniature sump pump system that sits in a bucket under the sink. Good enough for a wet bar.

My SaniFlo (SaniPlus) system uses a similar technique. SaniFlo has a whole range of pumps and maceraters.

I'm very happy with mine.
NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 12:45 PM 11-24-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by budk View Post

Another vote to eliminate the double door - unless you do it right (read $$$) you will have a problem with sound leakage. Given the rest of your space, I assume you will want to use the theater as well as have other activities so do not under-estimate the need for sound containment.

Best of luck.

I've found a few double door astragals at a few soundproofing sites. They don't seem too expensive. Of course you are doubling the whole price of a single door, door bottoms, jamb kits, and then adding the double door astragal cost on top of that so the whole entrance cost is not cheap.

Studs, plates, shots, and fire stops were just delivered. Now the fun begins. Delivery guy wouldn't let me play with the moffitt.
Mr_Mike_P's Avatar Mr_Mike_P 06:05 AM 11-25-2009
another vote to move the bar out of the centre of the wall and into a corner.


also, how many furnaces do you have!? I count 3. LOL.
NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 06:39 AM 11-25-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Mike_P View Post

another vote to move the bar out of the centre of the wall and into a corner.


also, how many furnaces do you have!? I count 3. LOL.

Yes three. First floor, second floor, and the third was added for a bonus room on the first floor. Way too much furnace for one room ( even if it is big). We calced it out and this furnace is big enough to feed the basement also. We'll add electronic dampers and the basement will get it's own thermostat.

The only thing I'm worried about with the bar in the corner is that becomes a very high traffic area right in front of the theater doors.

Getting all the lumber and fire stops into the basement this morning!
NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 02:03 PM 11-25-2009
Lumber is in the basement now. Firestops are cut.



I'm really torn on the whole bar topic. I really do like the idea of anchoring it in that corner but still concerned about not enough distance between the bar and the theater entrance. I thought about flipping the theater and moving the doors further down on the wall but that was nixed by the wifey. How much room is necessary between the backbar and the counter? Is 3 feet enough? If that's the case then the minumum bar depth is 7 ft. (2ft back bar, 3 feet work area, 2ft bar counter). That obviously does not include the stools. Finished wall to finished wall will be around 15'8". If you allow 18-24" for the stools that leaves about 6.5ft between the back of the stool and he finished theater wall and even tighter with people sitting at the bar. Door swing is 2.5 feet which comes within 4 ft of the bar stools. I think this would be by far, the most congested area in the basement. Is my concern valid or am I over thinking this?
weil0054's Avatar weil0054 02:34 PM 11-25-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Jackals View Post

Lumber is in the basement now. Firestops are cut.

I'm really torn on the whole bar topic. I really do like the idea of anchoring it in that corner but still concerned about not enough distance between the bar and the theater entrance. I thought about flipping the theater and moving the doors further down on the wall but that was nixed by the wifey. How much room is necessary between the backbar and the counter? Is 3 feet enough? If that's the case then the minumum bar depth is 7 ft. (2ft back bar, 3 feet work area, 2ft bar counter). That obviously does not include the stools. Finished wall to finished wall will be around 15'8". If you allow 18-24" for the stools that leaves about 6.5ft between the back of the stool and he finished theater wall and even tighter with people sitting at the bar. Door swing is 2.5 feet which comes within 4 ft of the bar stools. I think this would be by far, the most congested area in the basement. Is my concern valid or am I over thinking this?

Have you tried laying out the theater wall and two bar locations with masking tape on the floor? It may be difficult now with the wood pile, but an hour of your time could alleviate all your worry about the decision... Just a suggestion. Good luck and Happy Thanksgiving!
NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 02:40 PM 11-25-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by weil0054 View Post

Have you tried laying out the theater wall and two bar locations with masking tape on the floor? It may be difficult now with the wood pile, but an hour of your time could alleviate all your worry about the decision... Just a suggestion. Good luck and Happy Thanksgiving!

I will have to do that once the walls are up. Thanks for the suggestion. I was down there measuring a bunch and the wood is in the way now. Until then, I will just stress over the whole thing for the next week or so! Any idea on the my question about the distance between the back bar and the counter? That will help me accurately lay it out with some blue tape.
stenbough's Avatar stenbough 02:46 PM 11-25-2009
Personally, I love the design of the bar being in front of the entrance to the theater. I think it adds something to the entrance that a plain wall wouldn't. It's the first thing people see when they are about to go in and the first thing they see when they leave. Perfect!

By the way, I'm also using double doors as an entrance to our theater room. I'm going to be looking at several options to help keep sound in, so I'll pass on the information and results once I have the door hung.
NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 08:11 PM 11-25-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by stenbough View Post

By the way, I'm also using double doors as an entrance to our theater room. I'm going to be looking at several options to help keep sound in, so I'll pass on the information and results once I have the door hung.

Pemko has a ton of options for astragals.

http://www.pemko.com/index.cfm?event...uctMaterialId=

They also have some really nice options for fully mortised automatic door bottoms.

http://www.pemko.com/index.cfm?event...uctMaterialId=
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar BIGmouthinDC 06:54 AM 11-26-2009
One thing I found useful in evaluating layout alternatives and critical dimensions is to use kitchen chairs and to position the backs of the chairs at the dimension under review. I tried the blue tape on the floor but to actually see it at waist level is entirely different.
NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 07:05 AM 11-26-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

One thing I found useful in evaluating layout alternatives and critical dimensions is to use kitchen chairs and to position the backs of the chairs at the dimension under review. I tried the blue tape on the floor but to actually see it at waist level is entirely different.


Thanks, BIG. We have a few kitchen bar stools around our island so i'll use those. Coincidentally, between the kitchen island and the sink is about 4' and between the island and the cooktop is a little over 3' so I have an idea about the workspace. I think about 3.5 feet would be ideal. I have a sketch I'll get up in a min. It is based on your design.
NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 07:12 AM 11-26-2009
It is 7' deep with 3' between the back bar and the bar counter. 7 stools. I was hoping for 8 but I can't really go any wider. Left wall extends 5 feet so counter would angle right off the wall. Do you think that it will look weird (unbalanced) with the bar counter extending 5ft passed the back bar?


BIGmouthinDC's Avatar BIGmouthinDC 09:33 AM 11-26-2009
Something I have tucked in my mind for bar planning is a minimum of 28 inches elbow to elbow for stool placement.
NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 09:38 AM 11-26-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Something I have tucked in my mind for bar planning is a minimum of 28 inches elbow to elbow for stool placement.

Thanks. A site I found listed 21-25. the corners have 34 in this setup. The 4 in a row have 27. The one near the bar entrance would be the tightest at 24. I think it would work.
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar BIGmouthinDC 09:39 AM 11-26-2009
Something to consider is you could use wall cabinets which are 12 inches deep installed at the floor with a counter top in that one area to gain more storage and balance the feel of that one area. Then you could also run wall cabinets above out to the end of the bar for looks.

I would use an angled transition strip between the 24 and 12 inch deep cabinets.
NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 12:36 PM 11-27-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Something to consider is you could use wall cabinets which are 12 inches deep installed at the floor with a counter top in that one area to gain more storage and balance the feel of that one area. Then you could also run wall cabinets above out to the end of the bar for looks.

I would use an angled transition strip between the 24 and 12 inch deep cabinets.

I actualled considered 12" cabinets for the entire back bar but think that might look weird. In any event, I think I'm convinced I can make it work so I'm not going to sweat it anymore until we get the walls up.

The plates are in and I measured out the theater. Accounting for the DD, the finished room will be 15' 10.5" by 26' 3.5". About what I expected on the width but about 6" less than I projected on the length. I hope I can still make a 3rd row bar work. I might have to steal a few inches from my screen wall. I think I will also frame out that bump out area in the rear of the theater so the middle stools have a little extra room. (Thats the area that looks like '[' next to the wall shared by the theater and the unfiunished storage.)
NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 09:53 PM 11-27-2009
OK, here's a sketch of what the theater layout might look like. A few questions for anyone to comment.

1) Berkline recommends 36" between rows. Is that reclineds or unreclined? It looks like many don't give much room between a reclined 2nd row and the back of the first row. Right now the sketch has 18" between a reclined 2nd row chair and the back of a first row chair. Is this too much? too little? just right?

2) BTW, dimensions are based on four 088, 086, or 032 for rows 1 and 2. I see a lot of people who have their second row mimic thier first row. Shouldn't the first and 2nd rows have staggared seating? Even with a riser, a reclined 2nd row can't see over an unreclined head in the first row if the seating arrangements are identical.

3) I've allowed 2' for my screen wall and and additional 3' for my stage. Does this seem reasonable? This is the overall shape I'm going for:



4) 18" counter and bar stools for the 3rd row. 5ft allotted for counter and stools. This is all I think I cna spare. So the questions is, should I sheetrock over that optional bump out or include it in the room and finish it for at least some additional space for the middle two stools?

5) 5'0" double doors will sit in the middle between stage and unreclined first row. This puts them from 5.5 to 10.5 marks. Just a sanity check. Does this look OK? Plate for the door will go down tomorrow morning. Please do not start the single door vs double door debate again. Thanks.

6) aisles are 39" each not including any allowance for columns. I'm assuming this is about as narrow as I should go. The far aisle is likely to be rarely used with the doors on the near walls. I think I would rather keep the room balanced but wanted to hear thoughts on sacrificing the far aisle for additional seating.

All feedback welcome. Thanks for the comments so far.


BIGmouthinDC's Avatar BIGmouthinDC 09:44 AM 11-28-2009
1) a riser that is 6 ft 8 inches deep is just enough so that you don't kick the seat in front of you but the people on the outside will have to lower their footrests for people to pass which usually isn't a problem. Any thing more is gravy and if you want to save a few inches for the back this is one area. Yours is drawn at 7 ft which will be very comfortable. Something else to consider is that the ideal viewing position is rarely fully reclined.

2) staggering seats shouldn't be required if you plan your riser height correctly

3) sounds OK, but you should make a preliminary review of potential speaker selections to make sure they would fit.

4) that bump gives more breathing room behind the back row and I would claim it for the theater rather than drywalling it over. It makes for additional standing room only space. I'm sure you will find something to put back there.

5) looks OK

6) a 39 inch aisle is HUGE, 30 is generous 24 is doable. Take that into account with your seating configuration and you might be able to configure your seating so that not everyone has to share an armrest. Use the on-line seating planner to verify configuration widths. However staying as far away from the side walls puts more seats closer to the audio/visual sweet spots so you have to balance comfort with performance.
NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 01:59 PM 11-28-2009
Thanks, BIG.

Appreciate all the help. Looks like you're turning into my personal design consultant. LOL. About half the framing got done today.

As far as your speaker question goes, I'm looking at a B&W setup. I have a Custom Series in-wall setup in my Family room and I'm very happy with them. They have lots of options that should fit behind that screen wall. For example, the B&W CM9's are only 14.6" deep.
NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 08:51 AM 11-29-2009
Staggared stud wall is started. That's a lot of studs!



What do you think about nixing the whole third row idea and utilizing the entire width of the room for the back row? Looks like this layout would work. Room is 190.5 wide. 2nd row seat layout is 185". This still leaves me 2.75" on each side for acoustical treatments to the walls. Total layout still gets me 12 seats and the first row can move back 3 or 4 feet. aisles on each side would be 25.25" before wall treatments.


NJ Jackals's Avatar NJ Jackals 10:35 PM 11-29-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Jackals View Post


What do you think about nixing the whole third row idea and utilizing the entire width of the room for the back row? Looks like this layout would work. Room is 190.5 wide. 2nd row seat layout is 185". This still leaves me 2.75" on each side for acoustical treatments to the walls. Total layout still gets me 12 seats and the first row can move back 3 or 4 feet. aisles on each side would be 25.25" before wall treatments.


Bump for my seat layout question. Thoughts?
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