EDIT: added build summary and thread index to 1st post
Before & After:
Existing Floor Plan
Proposed Floor Plan (orientation rotated clockwise 90 degrees from existing floor plan). Click on image to open larger version.
Changes to the design since printing this plan image include:
1. Moving the left and right front speakers behind the screen and extending the false wall until it hit both corner bass traps.
2. This allowed me to go from a 100" 16:9 to a 115" 2.35:1 screen.
3. Shifted the 4 HVAC supplies so each one sits directly in front of one of the columns.
4. Relocated HVAC return from side wall to back right corner of room.
5. Added a 2nd can light to the equipment closet and 2 can lights to the media closet.
Proposed Ceiling Plan
Back Wall-Before (was originally going to be the screen wall)
Ceiling with painted star mural by Night Sky Murals
2nd floor build to replace builder-grade media room. Scope of work included:
-removal of existing wetbar, carpet, & drywall
-removal of all existing electrical wiring, including outlets, switches and fixtures
-temporary removal of insulation in ceiling & exterior walls
-adding a new dedicated 20A circuit
-upgrading existing 15A circuit to 20A and rewiring entire room (new outlets, switches, dimmers and fixtures)
-installing conduit to equipment closet, projector, speakers, riser and stage
-adding new wall to create screen wall/media closet
-adding perimeter soffit
-changing vaulted ceiling to coffered ceiling
-relocating entry door
-creating arched opening to new media closet
-adding 3 additional hvac supplies and 1 return
-adding insulation to interior walls and reinstalling insulation in ceiling and exterior walls
-adding stage, riser and false wall
-adding acoustic treatments to front, side and rear walls
-building 4 decorative columns. 1 hides equipment rack, 2 hide side surrounds and 1 contains lighting controls
-installing 7.1 speaker system
-hiding acoustic treatments/speakers behind custom-made fabric panels
-installation of baseboards, wall trim & light trays
-painting soffit and ceiling
-painted star mural
-installing new carpet
-installing new door & threshold
-installing screen, projector, & related av equipment
Dimensions (original room)
Height: 7’-9” at walls, vaulted to 10' in center of room
Finished dimensions (after installing treatments/panels)
Length (back wall to front wall): 18’-7”
Length (back wall to screen): 17’-10”
Height: 7’-9” at perimeter soffit, 9’ at bottom of coffers, 10’ to top of coffers
Dark brown wall fabric: Guilford of Maine FR701-Chocolate
Light brown wall fabric: Acoustex Designer Series-#60 Cocoa
Black fabric on screen wall: SyFabrics Plush Triple Velvet-Black
Trim & Door: Behr Premium Plus Interior Eggshell-Mouse Ears Black
Ceiling: Behr Premium Plus Interior Flat Enamel-equivalent to SW Jute Brown
Light tray: Behr Premium Plus Interior Flat Enamel-Bitter Chocolate
Soffit: Behr Premium Plus Interior Flat Enamel-Mouse Ears Black
Carpet: Main floor/riser: Masland, Style:Quadrate I, Color:Times Square Stage: Masland, Style: Signet, Color: Black
AV Equipment Summary
Projector: JVC RS45
Screen: 115”wide 2.35:1 SeymourAV frame w/CenterStage XD screen fabric
LCR Speakers: (3) Atlantic Technology 727 In-wall
Side surround speakers: (2) Triad In-wall Bronze
Rear surround speakers: (2) Triad In-wall Bronze
Subwoofer: (1) Hsu Research VTF-2 MK3
Receiver: Denon 4311CI
Blu-Ray player: Panasonic DMP-BD655
CD-Changer: Technics SL-PD888
Power Console: Belkin PureAV AP21100-12 (PF31)
Remote: URC R40
Light Trays in Coffered Ceiling: 24" Black light #7020BL
Speaker uplights behind AT screen: Kvart wall/clamp spotlight
1. Master Keypad: Insteon 8-Button KeypadLinc Dimmer, wired directly to the side can lights and remotely controlling items 2-6.
2. Insteon ToggleLinc Relay Switch wired directly to step lights
3. Insteon ToggleLinc Relay Switch wired directly to black lights in light trays
4. Insteon SwitchLinc Dimmer wired directly to front can lights
5. Insteon SwitchLinc Dimmer wired directly to rear can lights
6. Speaker uplights behind screen plugged into Insteon OutletLinc Dimmer
7. Insteon IR Linc to operate all zones via universal remote
Soundproofing: None (besides adding insulation to 2 interior walls)
Acoustic Treatment Summary
Front wall: (2) 17”x17”x24” corner bass traps cut from 2" Knauf unfaced insulation board (3 pcf), 1 layer of 3.5 mil poly sheeting sandwiched between (2) 1” layers of JM Linacoustic (floor to ceiling between bass traps)
Side walls: 1” JM Linacoustic inside fabric panels, floor to ceiling from screen to 1st row, floor to ear-height from first row to back wall
Back wall: (2) 2” layers of 3pcf insulation board. First layer against wall consists of Knauf unfaced insulation boards. 2nd layer facing room consists of Certainteed CertaPro boards with FSK facing. Prior to placing fabric panels over back wall, the FSK facing was covered with black fabric to prevent the FSK from reflecting through the fabric panels. 1 of the back corners includes (1) 17”x17”x24” corner bass trap cut from 2" Knauf unfaced insulation board (3 pcf). The corner without a bass trap contains an HVAC chase for a return duct that passes through the theater.
Riser as bass trap: 2x12 perimeter frame with 2x8 joists, fully insulated with 2 layers of R19 insulation and (7) 4x10 vents along back wall
Project was all DIY, with the exception of adding a dedicated breaker, adding 3 additional HVAC supplies and 1 return, hanging and finishing drywall and installing carpet.
Room Improvements: $13,370.34
AV Equipment: $9,667.05
Tools & Supplies: $1,267.81
Project Total: $27,430.13 (as of 1/1/13)
For a complete line item breakdown, refer to the attachments below.
Home Theater Expenses.xls 91k .xls file
Home Theater Expenses.pdf 22k .pdf file
Build Timeline & Index:
Phase 1: Research & Design - 2 Years
12/3/09 - 12/1/11
Phase 2: Demolition/HVAC modifications - 2 months of actual work spread over 2 years
1/2/10 – 2/7/10 – begin demo (wetbar, walls)
2/18/10 - hvac modifications
2/19/10 – 12/1/11 – project on hold
12/1/11 – 12/31/11 – complete demo (ceiling, electrical, doors)
Phase 3: Construction - 1 Year +/-
3/1/12 – 3/30/12 – insulation
4/1/12 – 4/12/12 – drywall
4/11/12 – revised plan to include 2.35:1 screen
4/16/12 – 4/26/12 – riser
4/27/12 – 5/1/12 – stage
5/24/12 – front wall acoustic treatments
5/27/12 – front wall speaker boxes
5/29/12 – 6/21/12 – revise fabric panel design, fabric & carpet research (round 1)
7/16/12 – columns
7/17/12 – 7/30/12 – furring strips for fabric panels
7/30/12 – 8/15/12 – fabric & carpet research (round 2)
8/17/12 – 9/10/12 – begin fabric frames
9/5/12 – final selection of fabric & carpet
9/9/12 – 9/12/12 – false wall
9/12/12 – 10/2/12 – more fabric frames
10/3/12 – fabric panel color schemes
10/7/12 – 10/18/12 – painting of soffit and fabric frames
10/10/12 – lighting control concept
10/18/12 - ceiling paint
10/19/12 – fabric dispenser
10/26/12 –bulb selection for soffits
11/11/12 - 11/12/12 – repaint ceiling, paint door
11/13/12 – 11/15/12 – carpet bids
11/19/12 – paint ceiling & floor registers & return grill
11/30/12 – star ceiling
12/11/12 – carpet install
12/17/12 – mount projector & screen
12/19/12 – temporary rack
12/20/12 - seats installed
12/29/12 - LCR speaker uplights
01/06/13 - Insteon switches installed
01/22/13 - mini riser
01/27/13 - screen wall fabric
Original 1st Post:
Well...I officially broke ground on my theater last weekend, if laying plywood in the attic counts. I also ripped down some drywall to see what was lurking behind a wall I want to remove. Before I get too much further with demo, I'd like to get the rest of my plan on paper. In order to do that, I need some constructive criticism. I'm attaching a plan of the existing room as well as a plan showing some options I have in mind. Because my room is not very deep, I am having to place the 2nd row fairly close to the back wall, so I have some concerns with acoustics. I'm also not sure where to locate the rear speakers since the 2nd row is so far back. I'm also fairly close to the screen in one option and I'd like to hear from those of you who are sitting at 9' or less to hear how large your screens are. I have a few questions/comments included on the attachments, so any feedback would be appreciated.
I'm looking forward to many more posts as I plan to document my build as it moves along. Hopefully some more demo this weekend.
You have a number of questions about screen size. First thing to determine is what you will will be watching the most and whether a 16:9 or 2.35:1 screen is best for you.
Another consideration is with a length challenged space whether you might be better served by getting some nice upright REAL theater seats for the back row and go with the HT recliners for the front row. It would save you 2-3 feet and your first row would be better positioned for a nice large screen. If your watching is going to be 90% limited to the front row something to think about. They have some nice uprights on www.seatsandchairs.com. Also you show a 7 ft riser, you could get by with a 6.5 ft. That would move your first row back a smidgen.
Our viewing will be a mix of movies (60%), tv (30%) and video games (10%). Not sure which format best lends itself to that mix.
I like the idea of losing the recliners in the back row (since I won't ever be back there). I'm 6'-5", so it would have been tight anyway, even with a 7' riser. And it would allow me to bump up my screen size.
I think I'd prefer a 7.1 system but since I was having trouble finding a place for the rears in a 5.1 setup, I wasn't quite sure how to handle the 7.1. Need to research that as well.
But most importantly, I need to learn how to post actual images instead of links.
Time to get back to work so I can actually pay for my "little" project.
Thanks BIG. I need to read up some more on screen sizes and the benefits of the various ratios. I've been too busy looking at everyone's great photos, yours included. Wish I had room for a bar like that.
Our viewing will be a mix of movies (60%), tv (30%) and video games (10%). Not sure which format best lends itself to that mix.
Sounds like a 2.35:1 screen since moview are the priority. Use masking for TV and games.
For 7.1 you would place the rear speakers on the back wall and the side speakers on the side walls between the two rows of seats. You could use in walls if you are worried about aisle space.
Entry to Theater (pic taken from adjacent gameroom)
North Wall, with entry from gameroom
In an effort to widen my room, I have removed the existing wet bar and closet (minus framing). This would make the room wide enough for 2 rows of 4 seats instead of 2 rows of 3. The plan was to move the angled part of the ceiling from the exposed 2x4's to the bottom of the 2x8's running under the roof sheathing. However, after seeing the framing, I'm not sure I can remove the front wall of the closet as it may be load bearing. Can someone with more framing experience than me take a look and let me know what you think?
The ceiling joists in the attic run all the way to the 2x8's under the roof sheathing and are secured to the sides of the 2x8's. I would think this would make the outside wall of the house load bearing and not the front wall of the closet. However, there are 2x4 vertical members between the ceiling joists and the top of closet wall that would indicate that wall is bearing some of the load of the roof/ceiling joists. Is it wishful thinking that I can remove this wall?
It appears to me that the closet wall is not load bearing but the vertical 2x below the ceiling joist concern me. They were probably added to help carry some load. They are there for a reason.
If that section needs to be beefed up you could add another rafter along side of the existing and make a better joist to rafter connection.
If in doubt, talk to an engineer. Its cheap insurance.
I really don't want to lose two seats by sticking with the current room width.
OK, that makes sense. The doubler is butted into the bottom of the rafter, thats why the verticals are there. Nail the two joist together with a bunch of 16,s spaced every 3" or so. Then add a metal plate or plywood gusset where the joist and rafter butt together. On the joist that scabs along side the rafter install a few SDS 1/4 - 3" screws.
Is there any load from the roof onto those double joists in the ceiling? If not, then you should be ok. The framers might have added the second joist because the span is long and the rafters are 24" o.c. to decrease the chance of the ceiling sagging. The ceiling is probably 5/8" drywall (needed for 2' oc framing).
Support of left hip over double joist
Support of right hip over double joist
Thanks for the feedback Steve. As you can see in these photos, there is a load being transferred from the roof to the double joists. The end of the ridge has a vertical support running to a double joist (with some interesting framing at the ridge) and each hip has a vertical support. I'll be calling a structural engineer to come by and take a look. Regarding the joist to rafter connections, both of the double joists supporting the hips are secured to the side of the rafters. The double joist supporting the ridge has one joist secured to the side of the rafter while the other butts up against the bottom of the rafter. I still think beefing up these connection points would do the trick but I'll check with an engineer just to be safe.
After deciding not to remove my closet wall, I'm proceeding with the existing room width. This should still yield 7 seats but the back row will be a little closer to the side walls than I'd like. It's a little close to the back wall too, but that's another story.
With the width of my room decided, I've started designing my fabric panel layout. Using GPowers theater as my inspiration, I'll be going a similar route but introducing different sized panels as well as contrasting colors. I'll also be adding movie posters to the side walls. I know my acoustics will probably suffer with the posters but my wife & kids like the idea. I'll be talking to BPape to see what we need to do to optimize the sound.
Let me know what you think about the layout and colors. I was originally thinking earth tones (beige, brown, rust) but blue makes the wife happy. It works for me too.
Option 1-Screen Wall with continuation of blue panels
Option 2-Screen Wall with no blue panels
The screen seems large but is not far off from many of the guidelines. It puts me back 1.3x screen width when viewing 1.78 material. For 2.35 material, I would be back 1x screen width or 2.3x screen height. It exceeds the recommended 45 degree viewing angle by a little bit. I may bring it in a little bit so I can widen the blue panels on the front wall and make more room for corner treatments. Does 115" wide screen seem excessively large for a 12'-5" wide room, sitting back 9'-6"? I'm having a hard time deciding between a wide enough scope screen to make 16:9 still enjoyable or just a large 16:9 screen. I think if I get much smaller than this with a scope screen, I won't like 16:9 viewing.
I'd appreciate your comments/suggestions.
Note to self:
screen would be 95" using 20th Century Fox 1.21x screen width at 9'-6" seating distance
I don't imagine there are many people with 95" scope screens out there!?
This seems like it would be really small for those sitting in the 2nd row at 16'. Should I cheat the 20th Century Fox std to 1.1x, which would at least get me a 100" wide screen.
Of course, maybe it's time to consider whether or not the guests in the back row should be given the option of reclining their seats. Then I could push the front row back a bit.
Thinking ahead to my star ceiling, the original plan was to do the flat part of the vaulted ceiling. Final dimensions of the flat section will be approx. 8'x16' after screen wall gets framed. I'm now considering bringing the stars down the angled sides of the ceiling and ending them above the soffit. When the room is dark and the angles disappear, I think bringing the stars all the way down will look better. Has anyone done this before or seen pictures of it done on a vaulted ceiling. I will have rope lighting in my soffit that highlights the angled sections of ceiling, if that makes a difference.
EDIT-Visited a 105" setup today which had seating at 11'. Looked great. I moved up to 9 1/2' and it was still fine. I think I should be ok in the 100-108" range.
Windows to the sky....I could change the name of my theater to The Greenhouse Theater.
I could do a scaled down version of the beams Swithey did in his theater. The one thing I like about Switheys is it gave him a convenient place to put his cans without interrupting the field of stars. If I don't go with the beam approach, I guess I just need to space the stars at a density that allows the cans to disappear. I don't want a dense star field with black holes where the cans are located.
Your ceiling is looking great. I just got a quote for a Fosi package and it seems pretty reasonable. I took the family to a demo theater today that had a star ceiling and it passed the WAF test with flying colors.
I'd be interested to see some detailed pics of the end of your ceiling install, particularly the fiber attachment to the lamp assembly. I'm not sure I've figured that out based on the photos I've seen of various installs.
I'd prefer to put everything behind. Not only is it a cleaner install, but I could then look at squaring up the front corners of my screen wall. I'm not sold on the 45 degree corners but would probably have to go that route if the speakers were on the side. Bass trap installation would be much easier with the speakers behind as I would not have to trim around any speaker framing. Any thoughts?
I'm leaning towards the Klipsch 7800 THX or 6502 THX in-walls. The 7800 comes with a sealed enclosure. The 6502 does not, but it's half the price so I might consider doing my own backer boxes. In-walls seem the best for the "beside the screen" option. Acoustically, would bookshelves work behind the screen or would the proximity to the sidewalls of the recessed cavity cause problems?
In addition to the bass traps beside the screen, should I consider them in the corners behind the screen and possibly in the back corners of the room?
EDIT-Bass trap was removed from rear corner to allow for door to equipment room. Door will be treated like rear wall.
If you have the space, I would do it. They will be hidden, so they don't need to be pretty. Some folks just use a big roll of pink insulation still in the bag. Others cut up 703 into triangles shapes and stack it up. This is something you can get to later, but I would keep it on the plans....
-Screen moved to 9'-3" from 1st row
-Existing wall removed from around duct. Duct to be wrapped in insulation and bass trap to be placed in corner.
-Mains moved beside screen, 9'-11" apart in 60 degree cone. Toe-in perpendicualr to 60 degree cone.
-Center moved back from screen wall to be same distance from listener as mains.
Are in-walls the right way to go? Getting the acoustics to work with bookshelves or even towers seems problematic with all of the framing that occurs at the angle points in the screen wall. I'd be looking at around $1500 for (3) Klipsch 6502 THX in-walls without sealed enclosures. Going to (3) 7800 THX in-walls with enclosures is going to run $3300. I'm pretty confident I could find better sounding bookshelves or towers for much less but can't seem to come up with a configuration that works.
View looking down existing chase to theater floor
View looking up from 1st floor return vent. In addition to the notations, I would also be able to slide the duct 8" away from the theater side wall before hitting the next joist if that made a transition to a different profile easier.
Not an expert
I was thinking of cutting a new hole for a more rectangular duct and transitioning back to the 12" duct up in the attic. If I can do a shallow rectangle with the same cross-sectional area (maybe 8"x14" or a little longer) and push it up against the front wall, that would help. If I could cheat some of that so it runs between the studs, it would help even more. I think that is what you were getting at in your first post. It was also a suggestion in a PM.
Your approach would be simpler though so I'm going to have to think about it. I like simple!!
My theater won't be done for some time but I'll have my seats soon
many of your questions are covered. RE: in wall spkrs: he is a fan - but - buy good ones. For the required ctr channel, look for a cone alignment that is woofer/mid and tweeter in line, vertically, and then the other woofer. he claims woofer/ tweeter / woofer in a horizontal row introduces many ugly sonic properties. [so, there are four cones in the preferred arrangement, as opposed to the more typical three cones]
also, as a bye the bye, save some space in a ceiling for sound treatments. the newer thinking is that the more "up there" the better.
also do not locate a hvac duct in the area of the projector.
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