The Cinemar Home Theater Construction Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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TeedOff,

Thanks for the information. In your case, did your basement flood and the mold was an after-effect?

I'm assuming since the insulation goes down to the footer, any flooding above 1 1/2" would be an issue for my room as well regardless of the platform.

I could build a hollow platform with all PT wood and no insulation and stack two 2x4's for each footer, but I fear that would create some issues with sound. Or maybe use Owens Corning Insulation Foam, but I don't think that will aid in helping the sound of the room.

I'm open to any other suggestions.

I do have a main sump and backup sump both on a backup generator. But I'd still like to plan for the worst.
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:46 AM
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Not really a "flood", maybe 3/4" deep, but the dampness was basically trapped in there and so mold grew. In the re-do, I ended up skipping the roofing felt and added 3/4" x 1" grooves every couple of feet in the 2x3 sleepers. A couple years later we had a huge series of storms coupled with a sump pump failure resulting in an even worse flood than the first. Thanks to the grooves, I did not have a second redo of the room. I have since sold that house and am currently planning a dedicated room build in the new place.
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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eHow recommends laying down 6 mil plastic on the concrete floor and 4 to 6 inches up the walls. Then putting the PT wood on top.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5333790_rais...ent-floor.html
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Old 03-13-2011, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeedOff View Post

Not really a "flood", maybe 3/4" deep, but the dampness was basically trapped in there and so mold grew. In the re-do, I ended up skipping the roofing felt and added 3/4" x 1" grooves every couple of feet in the 2x3 sleepers. A couple years later we had a huge series of storms coupled with a sump pump failure resulting in an even worse flood than the first. Thanks to the grooves, I did not have a second redo of the room. I have since sold that house and am currently planning a dedicated room build in the new place.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I follow you? How tall was your platform? Was it hollow? How did the grooves play in to your evil plan?

There's a small crack of where my wall meets the floor in the lower theater area. I'm assuming this is where the water has entered and drained through the drain tiles in the past when it flooded due to sump failure. The builder thought I could use concrete caulk to fill that gap in, but I can't imagine the caulk would be strong enough to prevent the water pressure from entering. The water has to eventually go somewhere. My thoughts were to leave it as is, so if water did come up, it could also go back down.
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Old 03-14-2011, 09:22 AM
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I've used hydraulic cement to seal up a couple of "weepers" in my foundation walls with very good results. It sets up quickly once mixed, so you don't have a lot of time to trowel it around. Spread it fairly thick (1/8") over the crack area and taper it across 3-4" on either side. It's been working for several years now with no breach. As long as the crack is not active and you have (otherwise) good drainage, it should hold.
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Old 03-14-2011, 11:41 AM
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Actually when using hydraulic cement, you should really try to pack it in and fill in the cracks with it and not just simply trowel over any cracks with it. Hydraulic cement expands when it sets up and that locks it in place, so cleaning out the crack and maybe even making it a bit lager so you can really pack it in good, would be a lot better than just covering it up.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post


Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I follow you? How tall was your platform? Was it hollow? How did the grooves play in to your evil plan?

There's a small crack of where my wall meets the floor in the lower theater area. I'm assuming this is where the water has entered and drained through the drain tiles in the past when it flooded due to sump failure. The builder thought I could use concrete caulk to fill that gap in, but I can't imagine the caulk would be strong enough to prevent the water pressure from entering. The water has to eventually go somewhere. My thoughts were to leave it as is, so if water did come up, it could also go back down.

The platform wasn't that tall...maybe three inches and hollow except for the roofing felt. One of the mistakes I made on the first go round was building the platform inside the room. So the walls went down to the floor. In the second attempt I built the walls on the platform. This along with the grooves gave water a path to flow out. Also on the advice of the mold guy I put in some 24 inch vents in the wall near the floor to allow air to flow. I am very thankful not to have to deal with that bsement any more.
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Old 03-19-2011, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I had the plumber and electrician over this past week to do some rework of the Sump pump area and well that was protruding into the theater. They were able to move things around so I'll have easier access to the the softener and well bladder and the electrical. You'll also notice a framed wall where the Arzel Zoning system was mounted to.


While the electrician was here, I had him add to 20 amp outlets to my Media/Storage closet where the racks are located. The two 20 amps will service the theater rack.

My order from the Sound Proofing Company arrived this week as well:


The construction lumber arrived this morning from Lowes as well.


They did a good job of beating other local prices.

Game On!
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Old 03-19-2011, 04:34 PM
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I'm happy to see you ready to jump into action. Now don't move too fast, you will make me feel bad when you pass me in the progress department.
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Old 03-19-2011, 05:24 PM
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I just cant see how anyone would have time to build a theater after mowing that yard a couple times a week!

I've enjoyed watching your plans progress, I'm looking foward to watching your theater become a reality.

Brad

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Old 03-19-2011, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_B View Post

I'm happy to see you ready to jump into action. Now don't move too fast, you will make me feel bad when you pass me in the progress department.

Well - I hope I can say that I passed you up some day soon.


Thanks Brad.
With Wisconsin weather, hopefully I won't be mowing it until sometime late May. Although some trees are already starting to bud back there.


I spent 5 hours moving 500 sticks of wood from the driveway to the basement. Tomorrow might be a little rough on my back from the haul. 16' green treated sure are heavy!
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Old 03-19-2011, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
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16' green treated sure are heavy!

And they can also sometimes be a bit wet & slimy, if they are not fully dried out yet from being pressure treated. You usually don't find those until you start removing the 2nd or 3rd layer of the dryer boards on top, I hate that.
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Old 03-20-2011, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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johnla,
There were certainly a fair share of wet and slimy ones.

Here's a little trick I figured out. My truck bed was under 6' and my trailer was still packed away for the winter. After walking about a half a dozen 16' PT boards around to the back of the house from the driveway, I figured they had to be a way to get them in my truck. So I loaded up a few rows of 12' boards that I also had ordered which extended my bed. Then I loaded the 16' boards on top of those. I used some straps within the bed to make sure the boards couldn't fall out. It also helped that my drive to the backyard was mostly at a decline. Saved me countless trips.
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Old 03-21-2011, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I wrapped most of the hot water pipes in the basement with insulation yesterday and started moving items out of the basement and into the garage to make more room.

Theater Entry Door
So I have a double wall leading into the theater. There is also a short foyer before the theater where another door will be on a single wall. In an effort to prevent any special order items and hopefully save a few bucks, should I plan for a 3 ft steel door into the theater? I originally had a 2' 8" door.

Elevated Platform
Still not sure what I'm going to do about the elevated platform in the theater lower level. I could fill the cavities with sand, but that would take a considerable amount of time, money and sand! Could I just use Owens corning foam to fill the voids and prevent the boominess that might occur from the Bass in the room? That might prevent issues down the road if the lowest theater level did get water in it for some reason. I was thinking 6 mil plastic down first and up the concrete walls a few inches. Then build the walls on top of the 6 mil plastic. Then use 5/8" osb on the wall, then mold resistant 5/8" drywall for two layers. This would then contain the walls and the elevated platform within the 6 mil plastic. Next, I would build the platform within the walls and put owens corning foam insulation boards to fill the space within the platform. Next, two layers of 1/2" OSB on top. Any thoughts on this? Or is it OK for me just to leave the elevated platform hollow since it is contained within the permiter walls? Another stage will be built ontop of this platform that I plan to put sand in. The step platform will also be filled with insulation. So only about 1/3 of this platform won't have something on top of it.
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Old 03-21-2011, 09:30 AM
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You best get to framing that pile of 2x4's with start warping in a hurry as I can see in your pics some are already doing the twist

Scott

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Old 03-21-2011, 10:32 AM
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OP,

do you mind if I ask how you made the 3D design images?

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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Old 03-21-2011, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W00lly View Post

You best get to framing that pile of 2x4's with start warping in a hurry as I can see in your pics some are already doing the twist

Yeah - that top stack actually arrived like that. I'm waiting to hear from my friend to find out when he can start framing. I'll let him pick through which ones are good enough to use.

Mfusick,
I'm using Lightwave 3D by Newtek to do the 3D images.

I have a water pipe for an outside spigot that sticks into one of my bedrooms by about 9"...so I thought maybe I could do a built-in to frame around it with an access panel. This is what I came up with:


Still looking for answers to the questions above if anyone has any thoughts.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:22 PM
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I really like the render. If only my bedrooms had 5 channel surround sound and 65" (?) TVs. You definitely want to keep access to it, and I like the way the built-in handles that.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I really like the render. If only my bedrooms had 5 channel surround sound and 65" (?) TVs. You definitely want to keep access to it, and I like the way the built-in handles that.

Thanks JTR7,
I wish that was part of the bedroom...but actually the built-in is part of the Living Room area...the smaller bedroom is on the other side of the shared wall. That bedroom will have stereo speakers connected to the Russound whole house audio system.

BTW, anyone have experience with the Proficient inwalls? They sell some Cinema speakers IW525 that are 100 watts - dual 5 1/2"..but also have W850 inwalls that have 175 watts for about the same price. It would seem the W850's would be better suited for at least the main left/right speakers as opposed to the IW525...but just confused given their labeling of them as Cinema speakers and their price. I'm thinking of using Proficient speakers for the built-in and living room area.
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Old 03-21-2011, 06:57 PM
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Are you for hire on doing renders? They look really good.

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Old 03-21-2011, 08:14 PM
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if i could give some advice on subwoofers and placement in rooms such as yours, i would seriously consider adding them in the columns as well as the front and back as you have. standing waves suck and after building my room with a "clean" look, its impossible for me to add more subs around the room to help with nulls. many high-tech theater designs have them incorporated in the columns and they perform very well there. you don't need anything crazy, but you will really see the difference when measuring using room eq software.

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Old 03-21-2011, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
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if i could give some advice on subwoofers and placement in rooms such as yours, i would seriously consider adding them in the columns as well as the front and back as you have. standing waves suck and after building my room with a "clean" look, its impossible for me to add more subs around the room to help with nulls. many high-tech theater designs have them incorporated in the columns and they perform very well there. you don't need anything crazy, but you will really see the difference when measuring using room eq software.
Anthony A.,

How many and where specifically were you thinking?
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post


BTW, anyone have experience with the Proficient inwalls? They sell some Cinema speakers IW525 that are 100 watts - dual 5 1/2"..but also have W850 inwalls that have 175 watts for about the same price. It would seem the W850's would be better suited for at least the main left/right speakers as opposed to the IW525...but just confused given their labeling of them as Cinema speakers and their price. I'm thinking of using Proficient speakers for the built-in and living room area.

I've used Proficient speakers, I actually have them all over my house for multi-room speakers as well as small living room theatre. I opted for the IW625's and i don't regret it one bit. I am extremely satisfied but might have been over kill. For a bedroom application, I think you'll be for than happy with W850 (L+R) with a IW525 as a centre. The IW525 are less efficient than the IW625's and the W850's. You won't be dissappointed either way.

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Old 03-22-2011, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I've used Proficient speakers, I actually have them all over my house for multi-room speakers as well as small living room theatre. I opted for the IW625's and i don't regret it one bit. I am extremely satisfied but might have been over kill. For a bedroom application, I think you'll be for than happy with W850 (L+R) with a IW525 as a centre. The IW525 are less efficient than the IW625's and the W850's. You won't be dissappointed either way.

Thanks for the feedback e39mofo. I did speak with Proficient directly and they did recommend using the same three speakers for the front. He also recommended going with the Cinema series for watching movies or TV with surround just because the dual speakers would produce a more fuller wall of sound. The power handling really depends upon the amp/receiver. If I don't plan on pushing out more than a 100w per channel, the IW525 may work just fine for my needs. I guess I'll keep my eyes peeled for some good deals since I'm not in a hurry.
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Old 03-22-2011, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
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Anthony A.,

How many and where specifically were you thinking?

well the more the better

but i would definitely start by adding 2 more.... 1 in each middle column. if you pm dennis erskine, he can probably recommend which placement would be best for the columns. if it were me in your position, i would add 2 in the front, 1 in the rear, and 4 small 10-12" drivers in the middle and rear columns on the side walls. i know it sounds like total overkill, but until you hear multiple subs properly integrated you will never know how much you are missing. it won't be any louder than the 2 you are proposing, but the soundfield and surround effect will be priceless. my next theater will most definitely have subs in ever position possible to get a smooth in-room frequency response.

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Old 03-23-2011, 04:22 PM
 
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...

Finalizing the HVAC plans for the entire house. 3 zones up and 1 zone for the basement. The installers I've talked to do not recommend just zoning the theater or even parts of the basement due to the limited number of supplys in the basement. Ductless systems have been recommended but were talking more than I'd want to spend. So my thought is to put the thermostat for the basement in the main entertainment area, then a temperature sensor in the theater. That will give me the option of averaging the two temperatures together if I want through the thermostat. I'll obviously need thermostats capable of being controlled through my automation system so I'm leaning towards Proliphix. They have a new IMT 350 thermostat that looks pretty neat in that it actually tells you how long that zone calls for heat/cooling and the fan. Great for charting usage. The ability to have a web interface to program it is really nice.

...

Could you please tell me where you found the IMT350? Is it the C or W model?

The reason I'm asking is that I'm looking for a dealer who sells the IMT350c in the U.S.
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Old 03-23-2011, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Anthony.

That number of subs may be well out of my current budget. But I can always prewire.
The research I've done though concluded that any more than four properly placed subs adds very minimal improvement to the overall room sound. I'll try to do some preliminary room testing though before things get finalized.


Andy,
I ended up going with the Proliphix NT20e's instead of the IMT350. I spoke with the owner of the company and he couldn't guarantee me that they would publicly expose the protocol for the IMT350 which was extremely important for me to be able to control through my home automation system. I'm not familiar with the differences between the models - it may be where the power source originates from - their POE device or from the HVAC itself. I imagine you could find a reseller online. Otherwise check eBay.

On another front, we've had quite a bit of rain this past week which exposed a little water along a crack in the foundation wall. It's in an unfinished area so it's not critical to fix now, but it looks like I'll be purchasing a crack injection kit soon to repair it.
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Old 03-25-2011, 03:42 PM
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On another front, we've had quite a bit of rain this past week which exposed a little water along a crack in the foundation wall. It's in an unfinished area so it's not critical to fix now, but it looks like I'll be purchasing a crack injection kit soon to repair it.

Most of the cement/concrete crack injection kits are nothing more than epoxy in a caulking gun type tube, and some of them sell for way more than the epoxy itself costs.

If you need more than just a little bit, and you want to get epoxy for a good price. This is probably the lowest cost place there is to buy epoxy from, and it's also top quality stuff.

http://www.epoxyproducts.com/

The above site shows everything they offer, but the site itself is somewhat confusing. This site is the same company, but in a easier to view format, but it also does not show everything that they offer and have on their other main site.

http://www.epoxyusa.com/category_s/6.htm

Don't let the lack of having it in a caulking tube hold you back from buying epoxy in bulk to use as a crack filler, as you can buy empty caulking tubes for anywhere from $.60 to $1.50 each.

Here are a few sources for those

http://epartners.aimsupply.com/store...25&itm_index=0

http://www.freundcontainer.com/produ...cd2=1227587001

http://www.abatron.com/cms/buildinga...kingtubes.html

http://colorworksinc.biz/?mainURL=%2...gory_id%3Daxvy


I have used bulk epoxy from the above vendor with these types of empty caulking tubes for wood & concrete restoration on houses, and it works great.
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Johnla,

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately I placed an order this morning already for the Radonseal Injection Kit to repair the crack. It appears to have worked for others.

Walls start getting framed tomorrow!
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Old 03-25-2011, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Pulled a couple of late nights this week trying to get my plans for the rest of the basement finished. I think I'm fairly happy with the results aside from some minor tweaking I can do while they frame.

Here are some 3D renders of the bar and rec room area just outside the theater:






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