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post #3181 of 3189 Old 02-13-2015, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mcascio View Post
Thanks for the tip!!

Any recommendations as to what pre-conditioner to use?
I've used Zinsser and sealcoat /Bullseye on Poplar before with good results. Minwax used to make a pre-stain wood conditioner, but it's not available in some areas (CA I know for sure) due to law changes.

Charles Neil also has a good product that many people swear by. Just search his name and "blotch control"

Take a look at this: edited***

Try this, is should help. ^ Drop me a PM or reply here after you grab it so I can kill the download link. I don't want it up forever.
All you need to know.

Check out page 64

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post #3182 of 3189 Old 02-13-2015, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I've used Zinsser and sealcoat /Bullseye on Poplar before with good results. Minwax used to make a pre-stain wood conditioner, but it's not available in some areas (CA I know for sure) due to law changes.

Charles Neil also has a good product that many people swear by. Just search his name and "blotch control"

Take a look at this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uw8ev824cb...utpdf.pdf?dl=0

Try this, is should help. ^ Drop me a PM or reply here after you grab it so I can kill the download link. I don't want it up forever.
All you need to know.
Thanks. I grabbed the PDF and will have to take some time to read through it.

I have some miniwax sanding sealer - is that the same as pre-stain conditioner or are we talking about two different things?

Also, I was going to see if my father-in-law would spray on the stain. I'm assuming applying with a brush vs spraying wouldn't matter and the pre-stain conditioner would still make sense.
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post #3183 of 3189 Old 02-13-2015, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post
Thanks. I grabbed the PDF and will have to take some time to read through it.

I have some miniwax sanding sealer - is that the same as pre-stain conditioner or are we talking about two different things?

Also, I was going to see if my father-in-law would spray on the stain. I'm assuming applying with a brush vs spraying wouldn't matter and the pre-stain conditioner would still make sense.
Just skip to page 64. Save yourself some trouble. Then read the rest. That guy has a massive brain dump in that book- he really just glosses over the surface of a lot of that stuff dumping insights of knowledge he's gained over many years of finishing.

As for products- something like the sealcoat or Zinnser stuff should be available just about everywhere. Shelac has long been used and is cheap and widely available.

The idea of the blotch control and sealer is just to make the wood absorb the stain at about the same rate, where as some places might not and you get dark/light patches. Depending on the wood and the stain and the desired finish this might or might not be that important.

There is some cool tricks in there like sanding to alter stain color and stuff like that too. But it might be getting too advanced for what you want to do.

Also - if you mean HVLP spray on the stain that is usually a little bit more universally even than wipe on and off, especially if you spray after sealing. If you want a universally equal stain application that might be a good idea. I always struggle with brush and and old sock method on something like you are doing, it seems like the corners, the nooks and crannies, and the end grains always come out a bit different color than the face does. Sealer is a great idea.

I think sealer and pre-stain conditioner are kind of the same thing. But the products might have different ingredients.

This stuff is usually available:
http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/...od-conditioner


If you want to step up....





More info:

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/arti...rule-them-all/

and,

http://www.cn-woodworking.com/cn-pre-color-conditioner/


That is the higher end option.


If you want to try a DIY yourself:

Quote:
I have been working on a project in Cherry and before I finished the desks I decided to try out some of the General Finishes Dye stain but on the scrap test pieces the blotching was driving me nuts. I came to this site and tried all the suggestions until I came across the discussion proclaiming that Charles Neil’s pre stain conditioner was the way to go. Bought some, tried it and still had minor blotching but it works well.

Watching his video he said it was a water based PVA enhanced product and doing some searching here and there I found that diluted PVA white glue has been used for years to control blotching. I just couldn’t leave it alone so I started experimenting and I have come up with an alternative using Gorilla White Wood glue which I think is a polyvinyl alcohol glue and not very inexpensive ($5.97 for 18 oz shipped free to house from Home Depot).

I took 5 oz of the Gorilla White Wood Glue and mixed it with 36 oz of water and then added 2 oz of General Finishes natural water based stain. I then mainly followed the application directions for the Charles Neil blotch control only with my mix and the results were very close to the same.

After sanding with 220 use two coats pre stain conditioner as follows: Apply wet coat of pre stain conditioner (allowing short time for softwood to absorb mix) then wipe excess lightly with a dampened rag of pre stain conditioner with grain (allow coat to dry fully 2-4 hours depending on temp and humidity) and sand lightly with ROS machine 220 then by hand with 220 following grain between and after 2nd coat. Hand sand with 320 along grain as a final buff before applying stain. Brush on waterborne dye stain with foam brush letting set for short time so that it bites into pre stain conditioner wiping excess off lightly with clean rag along grain without putting too much pressure on surface of wood.

After dye stain has dried (minimum 2-4 hours depending on temp and humidity), apply spray with ½ lb cut to ¾ lb cut dewaxed shellac, two coats sanding (lightly with 220 ROS and hand 320 along grain) between coats not breaking through shellac into color.

Apply by spray thinned finish coat over everything and let dry then hand sand lightly with 320 or 400 and apply multiple full finish coats drying and sanding between coats.

Water Base Pre-Stain Conditioner (Homemade)
http://lumberjocks.com/pjones46/blog/22172

That is an option on the cheap and easy ^ DIY is always fun too

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post #3184 of 3189 Old 02-16-2015, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the great info.

I also found some good information right on the mini-wax website which says not to use sanding sealer if you plan to stain the wood:
http://www.minwax.com/how-to-finish-...d-preparation/



For anyone interested, I just listed my well cared for Onkyo TX-NR3008 receiver for sale - it's looking for a good home:
FS: Onkyo TX-NR3008 Internet ready, 3D HDMI equipped 9.2 Home Theater Receiver
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post #3185 of 3189 Old 02-16-2015, 09:46 AM
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You might just shelac it and be done. It's been done that way for a hundred years and a million times.

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #3186 of 3189 Old 02-16-2015, 10:02 PM
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Mario,
What is the thickness of that recycled denim wall layer behind the screen?
What is the distance from the inside of the wall (or from the denim wall)to the back of the screen?
Did you put a denim layer inside each red GOM panel, or just the ones in the back of the room?
Is there enough room to put Subs behind the cabinet doors in the front of the room?

Thanks
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post #3187 of 3189 Old 02-17-2015, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by aakrusen View Post
Mario,
What is the thickness of that recycled denim wall layer behind the screen?
What is the distance from the inside of the wall (or from the denim wall)to the back of the screen?
Did you put a denim layer inside each red GOM panel, or just the ones in the back of the room?
Is there enough room to put Subs behind the cabinet doors in the front of the room?

Thanks
I put two layers of recycled denim on the back wall behind the screen. Each layer is 3/4" thick. So 1.5" for both.
It's been a while but I believe there is about 11 - 13" of space behind the screen. Just enough to squeeze in the speakers.
There is denim in all the red fabric panels. My plan was to strategically take some out on offsetting walls, but I never got around to that and did any room measurements.
I currently have 4 subs in the front wall behind the various cabinets.
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post #3188 of 3189 Old 02-17-2015, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post
I put two layers of recycled denim on the back wall behind the screen. Each layer is 3/4" thick. So 1.5" for both.
It's been a while but I believe there is about 11 - 13" of space behind the screen. Just enough to squeeze in the speakers.
There is denim in all the red fabric panels. My plan was to strategically take some out on offsetting walls, but I never got around to that and did any room measurements.
I currently have 4 subs in the front wall behind the various cabinets.
Is the denim layer behind the red panels 3/4" like the screen pieces?
Where did you get the denim stuff or what is it called?
Knowing what you know now, would you choose to denim again?
Did you have a side shot of the viewing angles for the three rows?
Is the 12" height difference between the 1st and 2nd row sufficient or should there be a taller gap (based on where your screen is)?
I think I read a post where you said you purchased 32 yards of the red GOM, was that enough?
Did that include the black GOM or was that separate?
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post #3189 of 3189 Unread Today, 04:50 PM
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Finally made it through the thread!

Beautiful work, and thank you for going above and beyond in this thread, it's made reading through it very informative and entertaining.

Did you ever get a chance to run through REW, and if you did, did you make any major changes based on the results, in order to fine-tune your audio?

I also have a request: that you stay in business long enough for me to use your automation software in my future home, whenever that happens.

Bravo!

"Measure twice, then measure again. Only then should you even THINK about cutting."

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