The Cinemar Home Theater Construction Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3084 Old 07-18-2011, 08:44 AM
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www.fabricmate.com. I have used them in the past - good price, fast shippping etc.

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:

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post #542 of 3084 Old 07-18-2011, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. That's who I called first. Still waiting on another quote before I pull the trigger.

I'm looking at ordering 90+ yards!


What are people using to bump out their walls 1" to tack the fabric to?

As others, I'm a little hesitant to put OC on the upper walls - especially after handling over 30 bags of the fluffy insulation. Will the 16oz Cotton batting provide the same results?

The Theater Foyer was rocked today. I ended up putting 5/8" on the walls and double 5/8" on the ceiling. I'll be mounting a 40" LED TV in portrait to display the currently playing movie poster. I might also provide a moving ticker along the top or bottom to show some other details like how many movies the theater has played since it opened, how many minutes total played, display what time the movie end. Still haven't put much thought into other ideas yet...but just some ideas off the top of my head. Perhaps smaller thumbs along the bottom of the last 5 or 6 movies played.



Here's the drywalled DeadVent enclosure that routes through the closet. I was so tempted to turn it into a photo booth given the bench like seating. The idea popped a little late before the drywallers showed up that I didn't have time to research it further. So no wiring was routed to make that happen.


I think will be going with this light for the theater foyer:

Mario


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post #543 of 3084 Old 07-18-2011, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

What are people using to bump out their walls 1" to tack the fabric to?

As others, I'm a little hesitant to put OC on the upper walls - especially after handling over 30 bags of the fluffy insulation. Will the 16oz Cotton batting provide the same results?

Do you have an overall acoustics treatment plan? One that combines absorbers, diffusors, etc? All manner of that can be hidden behind the fabric, as you can see for example here which is from Madrona Digital.

In other words, do not put absorption everywhere.

Roger

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post #544 of 3084 Old 07-19-2011, 05:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Current plan is to attach 1" oc above 2'6" on the side and back walls. Then cover with fabric. The front screen wall will have wall to ceiling corner bass traps made of oc and 4" oc on the entire back wall behind the acoustically transparent screen.

Mario


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post #545 of 3084 Old 07-19-2011, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Current plan is to attach 1" oc above 2'6" on the side and back walls. Then cover with fabric. The front screen wall will have wall to ceiling corner bass traps made of oc and 4" oc on the entire back wall behind the acoustically transparent screen.

My novice guess is that the room will be too dead in the HF. But I am no acoustics expert. Considering the amount of time and money you are putting into this fantastic room, it is worth getting some expert advice (or maybe you already did?).

If not, try Dennis Erskine. He is on the boards. Send him a PM with a link to your rendering and see what he says. Their design service is very reasonable but you don't need physical room layout, just acoustics consultation.

Roger

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post #546 of 3084 Old 07-20-2011, 08:47 AM
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Mario,
Long time member who reads ALOT, and is building my first custom house.

This build thread is Awesome! Thank you for showing everything in detail. Your build is helping me plan tremendously!

I do have a couple of questions:
1 - On the post #523 you have several pictures of the air return. In particular, there is one that says "I started by cutting a 3/4" hole in the return". Where did you make that cut? I am assuming that the edges shown in the picture directly below that quote was sealed by by flushing the two edges and taping it shut. Where is the cut in relation to that picture?'

2 - What is a dead box? I see it in your design and the pictures, but I don't think I have heard that discussed in the thread. In one the pictures of your dead box, there is a flexible hose coming down form the I beams, and one headed toward the vent. What is the electrical item (silver with electrical inputs on it) in between the two hose connections? Is this one of the items in your new Air Conditioning system that you were discussing earlier?

3 - And finally, why did you decide to go with the Whisper Clips? There seem to be many different clips out on the market, why did you make the choice you did? In particular, over the Green Glue clips that are made by the same company?

Thanks again!
Jason
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post #547 of 3084 Old 07-20-2011, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post
After following the link to your theater (which I immediately recognized) I think it is safe to say that you are no novice in sound reproduction and room acoustics. I agree with your opinion and often wonder why so many theaters are wrapped in high frequency sound absorption.
Thanks! I based my design on the collective information in the acoustics thread, heavily influenced by Floyd Toole's book. From what I can tell, it works great.

Roger

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post #548 of 3084 Old 07-20-2011, 01:46 PM
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Isn't The Master Acoustics book mostly for large venues ?
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post #549 of 3084 Old 07-20-2011, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry guys. Not much progress in the theater at the moment since it's filled up with stuff while the rest of the basement is drywalled.

Mario


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post #550 of 3084 Old 07-20-2011, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Roger,

I'll need to break out the Sound Production book again to see what's in there regarding room treatment. I probably should see what Dennis could recommend. I just don't want to open a big can of worms to slow the entire process. Although, I wish I would have done that service way before beginning. Would have saved me a ton of time and research.

I guess I was just replicating what I've seen other theater's on the AVS do. Which is typically 1" OC along the walls.

Mario


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post #551 of 3084 Old 07-20-2011, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharri01 View Post

Mario,
Long time member who reads ALOT, and is building my first custom house.

This build thread is Awesome! Thank you for showing everything in detail. Your build is helping me plan tremendously!

I do have a couple of questions:
1 - On the post #523 you have several pictures of the air return. In particular, there is one that says "I started by cutting a 3/4" hole in the return". Where did you make that cut? I am assuming that the edges shown in the picture directly below that quote was sealed by by flushing the two edges and taping it shut. Where is the cut in relation to that picture?'

2 - What is a dead box? I see it in your design and the pictures, but I don't think I have heard that discussed in the thread. In one the pictures of your dead box, there is a flexible hose coming down form the I beams, and one headed toward the vent. What is the electrical item (silver with electrical inputs on it) in between the two hose connections? Is this one of the items in your new Air Conditioning system that you were discussing earlier?

3 - And finally, why did you decide to go with the Whisper Clips? There seem to be many different clips out on the market, why did you make the choice you did? In particular, over the Green Glue clips that are made by the same company?

Thanks again!
Jason

Jason,

Congrats on building your first custom house. It's an experience. Requires lots of patience and more money than you budget for.

In regards to your questions.

1) Yeah. I just used a razor to slit open the ThemoPan. Then sealed it back afterwards with 181 tape.

2) You could probably find more information about the dead box on the soundproofing.com website. But I installed that instead of putting in a cold air return and introducing noise to other rooms. So the hot air is taken from the top side of the theater and forces into the lower side of the basement. There is an inline fan that moves the air and is powered. A rotary knob is used to control the speed of the fan so I can dial in the amount of air to take from the room. The enclosure is designed to reduce the inline fan noise because it is fairly loud.

3) I'm not familiar with the Green Glue clips and/or how they differ from the Whisper Clips. The guys at Sound Proofing Company have been helpful so I bought lots of items they carried.

Hopefully that is helpful. But let me know if you need further clarification.

Mario


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post #552 of 3084 Old 07-20-2011, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post

Isn't The Master Acoustics book mostly for large venues ?

The book I had in mind is this one: Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Roger,

I'll need to break out the Sound Production book again to see what's in there regarding room treatment. I probably should see what Dennis could recommend. I just don't want to open a big can of worms to slow the entire process. Although, I wish I would have done that service way before beginning. Would have saved me a ton of time and research.

I guess I was just replicating what I've seen other theater's on the AVS do. Which is typically 1" OC along the walls.

The treatments would not necessarily slow you down. Example, leaving parts of the wall blank. Or mounting some 2' square diffusor panels instead of OC. They are of course thicker than 1", like 5". But no way to know if that makes sense until you ask. Whatever the answer, it is better to know before it is finished.

Roger

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post #553 of 3084 Old 07-20-2011, 08:35 PM
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Hmm never seen that book before. Is the book 2ch and multi-channel orientated ?
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post #554 of 3084 Old 07-21-2011, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post

Hmm never seen that book before. Is the book 2ch and multi-channel orientated ?

If you go to the link, then below the book cover, click "Search inside this book" and have a look at the table of contents.

Roger

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post #555 of 3084 Old 07-21-2011, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok. Looking for some advice on the structual integrity of extending 5/8" drywall into the room in order to hand the can lights.


Here's what I'm thinking of doing as of now. This would allow me to use 5/8" drywall on both layers of the ceilings and probably speed up the process and lower costs.

My question is can I cantilever the drywall into the room 13 1/2" without it sagging over time and be able to support the weight of up to 16 3" can lights and some black lights? I'll also want to mount trim and crown to the soffit.

I was thinking of using some metal L-Brackets to help.


Any thoughts or experiences from others would be appreciated?

Mario


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post #556 of 3084 Old 07-21-2011, 10:46 AM
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Wow Mario that is a very cool Idea. I bet Ted White would have some good input on this one, but my completely novice opinion is that if you really stock up on L-brackets, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:

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post #557 of 3084 Old 07-21-2011, 11:03 AM
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Maybe I am reading it wrong but with the L bracket method you will have long stretches of unsupported drywall.
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post #558 of 3084 Old 07-21-2011, 11:36 AM
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Well… Likely fine but a few points:

The cantilevered drywall will not be much of a structural component. You might consider bonding a top piece of ply somehow.

The weight of the assembly will benefit from added rows of channel in that general area. If the double rows on the vertical face are spaced 16” or less, you should be fine. Similarly, I would have the last two horizontal tracks close together for the same reason. The single top vertical track would benefit from added clips. Instead of 48” spacing, consider 24” to directly help with that load.

The double ceiling drywall is independently supported, so obviously no problem there.

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post #559 of 3084 Old 07-21-2011, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post

Maybe I am reading it wrong but with the L bracket method you will have long stretches of unsupported drywall.

Perhaps this diagram will clear things up a bit. I'm still plannning to screw the drywall to the hat channels.


Mario


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post #560 of 3084 Old 07-21-2011, 02:23 PM
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I see it now, the L brackets will hold the outer 2x4 and 1x3 "ring", different from the way i see it done on other threads.
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post #561 of 3084 Old 07-21-2011, 03:55 PM
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Hi Mario,

I just saw this post at another forum, and thought of our discussion of 1" fiberglass. While the whole post is interesting, see in particular part E. It's by Art Noxon of ASC Tube Traps fame.

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post #562 of 3084 Old 07-22-2011, 05:51 AM
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Nice progress and detail....Subbed

-Dave

MCSE 2003
Windows Media Center specialist

Avid gamer and home theater junkie..
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post #563 of 3084 Old 07-22-2011, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

Well Likely fine but a few points:

The cantilevered drywall will not be much of a structural component. You might consider bonding a top piece of ply somehow.

The weight of the assembly will benefit from added rows of channel in that general area. If the double rows on the vertical face are spaced 16 or less, you should be fine. Similarly, I would have the last two horizontal tracks close together for the same reason. The single top vertical track would benefit from added clips. Instead of 48 spacing, consider 24 to directly help with that load.

The double ceiling drywall is independently supported, so obviously no problem there.

Thanks Ted.

I check out some of the nicer plywood at a local hardware store and it still seemed a bit wavey which is why I'm trying to see if there is another method using drywall instead. I was worried about the joints butting up together seamlessly. I guess that could be resolved by sandwiching the trim and 2x4 on top together though.

The other thought was just to extend both layers of drywall into the room with Green Glue inbetween...making it more rigid and solid.

The can lights will easily work with 5/8" too, but once I go to something thicker, it might be more work to get them to fit properly.

Mario


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post #564 of 3084 Old 07-22-2011, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post

I see it now, the L brackets will hold the outer 2x4 and 1x3 "ring", different from the way i see it done on other threads.

I'm open to other ideas if anyone has any.

The 2x4 would extend the length of all four inside soffits. They'd each be about 12' in length.

Mario


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post #565 of 3084 Old 07-22-2011, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Hi Mario,

I just saw this post at another forum, and thought of our discussion of 1" fiberglass. While the whole post is interesting, see in particular part E. It's by Art Noxon of ASC Tube Traps fame.

Thanks Roger. That does make alot of sense to not overly treat just the high frequencies. I blew off the dust on the Sound Reproduction book and have been reading the last few chapters again.

If nothing else, staggering the walls (opposite each other) with the 1" would seem to provide better results and reduce any potential flutters. I'm not sure how I would add 6-8" diffusors into the current plan without simply attaching them or hanging them on the wall/fabric and making them look more like artwork. The deflectors might be a possible solution too. My columns are rectangle, so I don't think they will provide much assistance in that area. I do have space in the columns for some absorportion or even smaller diffusors about a foot wide. The book placed them on the sides of the speakers and absorpition above/below the speakers. So my theory was to maybe put 2" OC in the columns. That would give me a good mix of 1", 2" and 4" OC around the room.

There are some great diagrams in the book of sample wall configurations.

Mario


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post #566 of 3084 Old 07-22-2011, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidinCT View Post

Nice progress and detail....Subbed

Thanks DavidinCT,

Always great to have another set of eyes on the project.

Mario


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post #567 of 3084 Old 07-22-2011, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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It looks like I may have come full circle and back to my original plan...but with the L-Brackets for additional support.

Here's what I'm thinking. I'll just have to sand the plywood if I want to get a smooth drywall type finish. Or I was thinking of laminating the side that faces the theater.

Mario


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post #568 of 3084 Old 07-22-2011, 11:14 AM
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Sorry for adding to your work :P Fantastic work so far.
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post #569 of 3084 Old 07-31-2011, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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They started putting the first layer of 5/8" OSB and Plywood on the ceiling yesterday.


We attached the 4" can light backer box before attaching the plywood to the hat channel.



The tray around the room will be about 12". The interior can lights will be built into the plywood within the room. Hopefully the crown moulding will be enough to hide the cans.



Here's a frame around the supply vent. This is the only portion of the supply chamber we attached to the plywood ceiling.



Finished assembly with plywood layer.



View within the soffit. Acoustic caulk was used on any entry points.



Front wall. Three 4" cans will light the screen. Question....Where the plywood meets the left wall, do I need to use acoustic caulk? Or do I wait for the final layer of 5/8" Drywall?



View from the front of the room. The plywood seems pretty sturdy. I may not need any L-brackets...or possibly just a spot one near the middle of each section.

Mario


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post #570 of 3084 Old 08-01-2011, 05:28 PM
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Did all that plywood fall off the back of a truck or something? Curious as to why you used it? Additional layer of mass?

Don't think I am a fan of your light can idea, but I'll see when it is all done.


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