The Cinemar Home Theater Construction Thread - Page 30 - AVS Forum
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post #871 of 3084 Old 11-19-2011, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Hi Larry,

You might want to see if they can dial in the price range a bit. That's pretty broad. Cabinets are not cheap and if you need moulding to match the specific color like I did, that gets expensive too. Anything with curves, arches or angles seems to add to the cost.

Thanks TheaterChad.
I did spend quite a bit of time planning around all the gaming tables. Especially the shuffle board. It pays though to plan it ahead of time rather than jamming everything in. I was able to move walls to fit everything in and still have space to gather and walk.

I bought the stools online:
http://www.barstools.com/bar-height-...elbarstool.cfm

Buy one initially. Then they send you a coupon code for your next order.

Excellent, Thanks for the link, that's much more affordable than what I found anywhere near me, thanks a million!!
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post #872 of 3084 Old 11-19-2011, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

Excellent, Thanks for the link, that's much more affordable than what I found anywhere near me, thanks a million!!

I have some that are very similar to these too, purchased from Target on line. Really cheap price, decent quality for the price.

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post #873 of 3084 Old 11-19-2011, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tbraden32 View Post

I have some that are very similar to these too, purchased from Target on line. Really cheap price, decent quality for the price.

Thanks, that's another factor to think about, cost and quality, thanks for the info
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post #874 of 3084 Old 11-19-2011, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Hi Larry,

You might want to see if they can dial in the price range a bit. That's pretty broad. Cabinets are not cheap and if you need moulding to match the specific color like I did, that gets expensive too. Anything with curves, arches or angles seems to add to the cost.

Thanks TheaterChad.
I did spend quite a bit of time planning around all the gaming tables. Especially the shuffle board. It pays though to plan it ahead of time rather than jamming everything in. I was able to move walls to fit everything in and still have space to gather and walk.

I bought the stools online:
http://www.barstools.com/bar-height-...elbarstool.cfm

Buy one initially. Then they send you a coupon code for your next order.

Yeah she was just ballparking. I asked them to come up with some designs but they wanted $250 up front and I wasn't ready to do that yet.

I was there purchasing under cabinet molding for my kithcen and it cost me $200 for 32 ft at contractor prices

The under cabinet molding turned out great by the way, took me a few hours but I like perfect cuts


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post #875 of 3084 Old 11-19-2011, 06:35 PM
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Looking good!


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post #876 of 3084 Old 11-19-2011, 08:08 PM
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I must say, I love your Cinemar interface. Is that custom for you or is it included or an available for purchase skin with MainLobby?
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post #877 of 3084 Old 11-20-2011, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cowger View Post

Mario, I haven't tried sanding sealer, so that may work fine, but I vastly prefer the drywall compound over something like shellac (which, like the sanding sealer, also takes several coats).

I'm not sure how you're planning to manufacture those columns, but I think the best way would really be to miter the corners, so that you end up with the outside surface extending all the way to the corner on all both surfaces. That, however, would require a table saw, and probably a high-quality one at that (ripping something that long at 45 degrees for a perfect fit isn't trivial). If you have a buddy with a workshop, that would probably be best, *but* I'm also confident that you can get good results with the drywall compound, provided that your basic cuts are clean and straight.

Good luck! Wish we were closer so I could lend a hand on the woodworking...

Bryan

Thanks for the feedback. I didn't cut the corners at 45's. May be beyond my personal scope. But I'm still developing my prototype column. I'll check with my father-in-law and see what he thinks about the drywall compound vs. sanding sealer. Yeah - would be great to have someone with some knowledge like yourself on-site!

Larry,
When I was doing my bar, I didn't really get much input from all the places I stopped by. I couldn't really find anyone locally to do it either. So I pretty much ended up doing all the design ideas myself and then ordering the cabinetry from Home Depot. The cabinet doors worked great as paneling for the front of the bar.

Mario


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post #878 of 3084 Old 11-20-2011, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTR7 View Post

I must say, I love your Cinemar interface. Is that custom for you or is it included or an available for purchase skin with MainLobby?

Thanks JTR7. The last two screenshots I posted are included with the current MainLobby 3. I may have posted some screens from Version 4 in the past that haven't been released yet. But will be shortly. Those will be included with MainLobby 4 and won't require the purchase of a separate GuiGraphix Library.

Mario


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post #879 of 3084 Old 11-20-2011, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I tackled more of the columns today. Gave the Kreg jig a try as well. I wasn't really sure how many places I should screw the sides to the front. I think I ended up using about 7 or 8 per side. Applied and finish nailed some of the larger speaker mouldings and pre-cut the moulding for the bottom of the front column. I'll need to order some black GOM fabric before I can permanently mount the remaining mouldings. You'll notice a white inside frame. That's MDF that I used to attach the mouldings to and provide some additional support. I may also need to paint some of the mouldings before I completely finish nail them to the column since it's be adjoining the GOM fabric.








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post #880 of 3084 Old 11-21-2011, 01:56 AM
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That's a clever way of creating the relief on the columns, those will look great when they are done. Nice job.
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post #881 of 3084 Old 11-21-2011, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Larry,
When I was doing my bar, I didn't really get much input from all the places I stopped by. I couldn't really find anyone locally to do it either. So I pretty much ended up doing all the design ideas myself and then ordering the cabinetry from Home Depot. The cabinet doors worked great as paneling for the front of the bar.

Home Depot you say This isn't their stock cabinet line is it?

My main issue with the bar is the location with the trapezoid opening, I have googled for hours looking for a similiar setup and nothing

Perhaps I'll stop by Home Depot and see if they have any ideas


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post #882 of 3084 Old 11-21-2011, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phisch View Post

That's a clever way of creating the relief on the columns, those will look great when they are done. Nice job.

Thanks Mike. It does add more depth to the columns and a bit more dimension.

Mario


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post #883 of 3084 Old 11-21-2011, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post

Home Depot you say This isn't their stock cabinet line is it?

My main issue with the bar is the location with the trapezoid opening, I have googled for hours looking for a similiar setup and nothing

Perhaps I'll stop by Home Depot and see if they have any ideas

Hey Larry. They are Kraftmaid cabinets. Special order. A lot of the other "more expensive" places we went to were also carrying Kraftmaid and I had heard good things about them. Plus I didn't want to spend a ton on bar cabinetry.

I haven't seen your bar plan, but if you are trying to fit cabinetry into that angled area, why not use standard cabinets with 45's on each end and then cut the counter to fit the shape. Then use fillers as needed.

Mario


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post #884 of 3084 Old 11-21-2011, 08:18 AM
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Wow, your project is really looking great. The bar turned out classy and I love the shuffle board. I really wanted to add one to our basement but just couldn't figure out a good place for it. Looking forward to future updates.


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post #885 of 3084 Old 11-21-2011, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phisch View Post

That's a clever way of creating the relief on the columns, those will look great when they are done. Nice job.

I agree. I was wondering how you were going to take the columns from the renders and turn them into reality. Mystery solved!

My vote for the MDF edge concealment is to use sealant, generous amounts of wood filler, then palm sander. I've used that method and also the drywall compound. The latter is quicker initially, but may (in my case -- did) develop cracks down the line.
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post #886 of 3084 Old 11-21-2011, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

I bought the stools online:
http://www.barstools.com/bar-height-...elbarstool.cfm

Buy one initially. Then they send you a coupon code for your next order.

That's a brilliant idea! I just wish I had thought of it before I bought my bar stools.

Chris

"It hurts to admit when you make mistakes - but when they are big enough, the pain only lasts a second."
--Despair, Inc. "Regret"


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post #887 of 3084 Old 11-21-2011, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Hey Larry. They are Kraftmaid cabinets. Special order. A lot of the other "more expensive" places we went to were also carrying Kraftmaid and I had heard good things about them. Plus I didn't want to spend a ton on bar cabinetry.

I haven't seen your bar plan, but if you are trying to fit cabinetry into that angled area, why not use standard cabinets with 45's on each end and then cut the counter to fit the shape. Then use fillers as needed.

Thats basically what I was thinking but hoping a cabinet designer or someone can show me an example so I can get a more clear idea. I laid masking tape down to get an idea


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post #888 of 3084 Old 11-22-2011, 05:14 AM
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How are you attaching the fabric in the columns?

Any more details on the trim you used? Interested in the back profile


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post #889 of 3084 Old 11-22-2011, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roknrol View Post

I agree. I was wondering how you were going to take the columns from the renders and turn them into reality. Mystery solved!

My vote for the MDF edge concealment is to use sealant, generous amounts of wood filler, then palm sander. I've used that method and also the drywall compound. The latter is quicker initially, but may (in my case -- did) develop cracks down the line.

Good point. How thick was your drywall compound? For what I was advising, it ends up being absorbed into the MDF; there's nothing to crack. Again, it depends on how close to perfect the original cuts are. If they are way off and he's filling more than maybe 1/64th", I'd be concerned that many fillers could crack, including drywall compound.

Mario, do you have a router? If so, you could use that to flush trim the front so that it's exactly matched to the sides. Might be an easy way to ensure that any filler ends up at zero thickness.

Bryan


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post #890 of 3084 Old 11-22-2011, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post

How are you attaching the fabric in the columns?

Any more details on the trim you used? Interested in the back profile

Hi Larry,

Here's a diagram showing the moulding I'm going with.



I'm still on the fence about how to tackle attaching the fabric. Especially on the sides. I'm open to recommendations.

For the sides, I was thinking of just using hot glue or contact cement to attach it to the MDF. I'm thinking stapes may fray the edge of the MDF since I only have about 1/2" of contact with the mdf to fabric.

Here's an illustration. The moulding is 3/4" and I'll finish nail it over the top of the fabric and then into the mdf.


For the lower front of the column, I have a lot more room to staple or glue the fabric. The top half grill needs to be removable. I'm planning to use a plastic speaker frame from parts-express.

I ordered the Black GOM so I'll be getting to that phase soon.

I cut all the mouldings for the first column. I became more and more efficient. I started using a finished cut moulding piece as a template to mark the next piece for cutting. The trick was to place them back to back on the floor and then use a sharp pencil to trace the cut line. This narrowed by cuts down to about two or three per moulding per side. Much easier than using the measuring tape. Then to shave off a hair, I would lower the mitre saw blade down and push the moulding against the blade. Then lift the blade up and make the cut. The teeth are a little larger, so it just shaved a smidge off the end moving me closer and closer to my finished cut. These are probably all stuff the pro's know, but being my first time. I'm learning as I go.

Mario


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post #891 of 3084 Old 11-22-2011, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowger View Post

Good point. How thick was your drywall compound? For what I was advising, it ends up being absorbed into the MDF; there's nothing to crack. Again, it depends on how close to perfect the original cuts are. If they are way off and he's filling more than maybe 1/64th", I'd be concerned that many fillers could crack, including drywall compound.

Mario, do you have a router? If so, you could use that to flush trim the front so that it's exactly matched to the sides. Might be an easy way to ensure that any filler ends up at zero thickness.

Bryan

Bryan,

I can definitely say that the edges are not perfect. And even with the Kreg jig, as I tightened the screws it pushed the edges a bit over their mark as I joined the pieces together. I think I'll need to clamp the MDF together next time before joing them to keep them from moving off their square. I think the hairline edge can be sanded though.

I do have a router. What type of bit are you suggesting using? The edges that I cut for the first column look pretty smooth.

Everything's going black, so I'm hoping shadows and just the overall room will hide some of the imperfections.

Mario


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post #892 of 3084 Old 11-22-2011, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

I do have a router. What type of bit are you suggesting using? The edges that I cut for the first column look pretty smooth.

Everything's going black, so I'm hoping shadows and just the overall room will hide some of the imperfections.

Awesome. My advice would be to get a bit like this:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...20router%20bit

Make your face frame about 1/8" too wide, attach the sides as straight as you can, with about 1/16" of overhang on each side, then trim it flush with that bit. Should yield perfect results every time.

Bryan


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post #893 of 3084 Old 11-22-2011, 08:51 AM
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While building speaker cabinets I do exactly what is listed above with the fluch bit. Cut the pieces about 1/8 inch too big, then use the Kreg to join them with a slight overhang and use the flush bit to trim. Makes a perfect seam every time.

I wouldn't use wood filler or dryuwall compound on the MDF or seams. It will crack. If it's possilbe to construct these columns in a well ventilated area I sugguest using Bondo. It smells horrible (think of the glue used in model cars when you were growing up) but it will seal well and when sanded will give you a SMOOTH surface. I used bondo on my curves speaker cabinets. Here is a picture of the before and after. You can see how rough the before was, and how smooth the bondo is sanded and painted.





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post #894 of 3084 Old 11-22-2011, 09:34 AM
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Larry,

You can also special order cabinets at Menard's. They will design your space for free but it does require time and thought. I must have changed our plan at least 10 times You might also want to stop by Menard's / Home Depot and grab a cabinet catalog to see what sort of cabinets, styles, hardware, and trim you're interested in. There are a ton of choices.

The extra's from mouldings to trim to real 3/4" cabinet construction can get expensive but not as much as custom cabinets. We ended up getting all of our cherry cabinets at Menard's at 20% off. I also ordered a couple of quarts of matching stain and ended up staining much of the trim and wainscoting around the bar and saved a ton of money that way.

All of this is detailed in the link below.


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post #895 of 3084 Old 11-22-2011, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deewan View Post

While building speaker cabinets I do exactly what is listed above with the fluch bit. Cut the pieces about 1/8 inch too big, then use the Kreg to join them with a slight overhang and use the flush bit to trim. Makes a perfect seam every time.

I wouldn't use wood filler or dryuwall compound on the MDF or seams. It will crack. If it's possilbe to construct these columns in a well ventilated area I sugguest using Bondo. It smells horrible (think of the glue used in model cars when you were growing up) but it will seal well and when sanded will give you a SMOOTH surface. I used bondo on my curves speaker cabinets. Here is a picture of the before and after. You can see how rough the before was, and how smooth the bondo is sanded and painted.




Looks cool. How easy is it to work with bondo?
Would I need to bondo the entire column or just the corners?

One thing to that's in the back of my mind is that I'm not necessarily trying to make it look like the corner doesn't exist, but rather create a smooth matching finish on the cut edge so it's paintable. I want it to look like painted wood (but without the grain). If I look at my expensive kitchen cabinets, you can see where the wood panels were seamed together. But the edges are nice and flush.

I'm not necessarily looking to make it look like the columns were drywalled and there are no seams.

Mario


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post #896 of 3084 Old 11-22-2011, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Any tips/tricks for cutting the GOM and working with the large roll? It seems like it'd be challenging to get nice straight cuts with scissors.

Mario


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post #897 of 3084 Old 11-22-2011, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Looks cool. How easy is it to work with bondo?
Would I need to bondo the entire column or just the corners?

One thing to that's in the back of my mind is that I'm not necessarily trying to make it look like the corner doesn't exist, but rather create a smooth matching finish on the cut edge so it's paintable. I want it to look like painted wood (but without the grain). If I look at my expensive kitchen cabinets, you can see where the wood panels were seamed together. But the edges are nice and flush.

I'm not necessarily looking to make it look like the columns were drywalled and there are no seams.

Bondo is fairly easy to work with. Must like Drywall compound, only you have to mix the material with a hardener and it dries solid within minutes (depending how much hardener you use). Sometimes it's 3-4 minutes, sometimes 10. It won't work well if you are trying to keep the seams of the wood and just seal the end cut MDF. It's more if you don't want to see seams. I would maybe suggest using something like pine instead. Keeps the seam, won't have to seal the end cut after sanding. Just my two cents.


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post #898 of 3084 Old 11-22-2011, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Hi Larry,

Here's a diagram showing the moulding I'm going with.



I'm still on the fence about how to tackle attaching the fabric. Especially on the sides. I'm open to recommendations.

For the sides, I was thinking of just using hot glue or contact cement to attach it to the MDF. I'm thinking stapes may fray the edge of the MDF since I only have about 1/2" of contact with the mdf to fabric.

Here's an illustration. The moulding is 3/4" and I'll finish nail it over the top of the fabric and then into the mdf.


For the lower front of the column, I have a lot more room to staple or glue the fabric. The top half grill needs to be removable. I'm planning to use a plastic speaker frame from parts-express.

I ordered the Black GOM so I'll be getting to that phase soon.

I cut all the mouldings for the first column. I became more and more efficient. I started using a finished cut moulding piece as a template to mark the next piece for cutting. The trick was to place them back to back on the floor and then use a sharp pencil to trace the cut line. This narrowed by cuts down to about two or three per moulding per side. Much easier than using the measuring tape. Then to shave off a hair, I would lower the mitre saw blade down and push the moulding against the blade. Then lift the blade up and make the cut. The teeth are a little larger, so it just shaved a smidge off the end moving me closer and closer to my finished cut. These are probably all stuff the pro's know, but being my first time. I'm learning as I go.

Nice selection of trim, may I suggest a fancier base? You have a lot of curves in all your trim, but the base looks relatively flat.

By the way, absolutey incredible job with the diagrams...jeez I ask for the molding profile and I basically get the CAD version...pure excellence


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post #899 of 3084 Old 11-22-2011, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Any tips/tricks for cutting the GOM and working with the large roll? It seems like it'd be challenging to get nice straight cuts with scissors.

I measured the length that I needed, unrolled the length onto the floor in another room, then used a level on top of the GOM, and cut beside the level using it as a guide.

It worked really well and I didn't have any errant cuts.

Good luck!

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post #900 of 3084 Old 11-23-2011, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Guys.

Thanks for all the great advice. My father-in-law seems comfortable with the bondo. So I think we'll try that on the edges. Then use sanding sealer on the entire unit along with sanding.

Larry,
I actually intended on going a bit fancier with the trim. But I had quite a bit left over from the basement that I decided to use that instead of just throwing it away. Otherwise, I would have gone with a slightly taller base and more decorative.

Mario


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