The Cinemar Home Theater Construction Thread - Page 39 - AVS Forum
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post #1141 of 3081 Old 01-04-2012, 08:43 AM
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I was working on this while you were typing to demonstrate what it will look like with the lights off and a movie playing.

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post #1142 of 3081 Old 01-04-2012, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowger View Post

Hey Mario - looking great! I would think you'd want at least 1/2" radius on your roundover, and if it were me, I'd even think about 3/4", assuming your oak buildup is 1-1/2" thick, yielding a complete 180 degree bullnose. However, it's also important to match whatever you're doing on the rest of your steps...

If you do choose something > 3/8", be sure to do it in multiple passes -- you'll get much better results (sorry if that's obvious). Might want to also "back route" the sections going against grain.

Bryan

I did some test routing last night. Maybe my inexperience shows, but I'm using a 1/2" round over bit. After routing, there's about a 1/2" of flat edge and only a 1/4" rounded. I was expecting a 1/2" rounded. If I set the bit lower, it starts to eat into the top of the wood.

Bryan, I'm open to any tips, best practices you can provide about routing.

I took a piece of 1x2 oak and routed both sides. Then I tryed to rip it in half with a table saw. It fought through it, but at the end of the run got off. So I'm guessing I'll need to build something to keep the piece constrained to the table since it's so small.

I'll have to review how Moggie did it. But can I shoot finish nails through the routed oak from the bottom to the top of the stair tread? I could use some adhesive too. Or is the finish nail not needed with the adhesive?
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post #1143 of 3081 Old 01-04-2012, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

I was working on this while you were typing to demonstrate what it will look like with the lights off and a movie playing.


Thanks Big.

If I had an extra 2' of space in the room and the subs didn't need to sit in front of the screen, I would have designed a completely different look for the screen wall. The black velvet will solve the the reflection issues near the screen. But the front wood steps will still produce some. A bit of balance between look and function.
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post #1144 of 3081 Old 01-04-2012, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Hi Mario, yes I did 1/2" radius on my steps (which was the largest round over bit I had). This leaves a flat front of a two layer step. I liked this look of this because it did, as you suggest, give the edge more "meat". I think 3/8" is a little small though.

Thanks Moggie. I'm going to double-back to your thread to see yours. I think I'm going to route all my pieces before assembling them so I can have sharp corners rather than rounded. I think you routed yours after they were assembled.
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post #1145 of 3081 Old 01-04-2012, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Question...is it a bad idea to use an orbital sander (which is what I already own) to smooth the oak edges?
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post #1146 of 3081 Old 01-04-2012, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Question...is it a bad idea to use an orbital sander (which is what I already own) to smooth the oak edges?

Yes, a Random Orbital Sander is your best bet over a traditional Sheet Sander for fine wood working.
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post #1147 of 3081 Old 01-05-2012, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

I did some test routing last night. Maybe my inexperience shows, but I'm using a 1/2" round over bit. After routing, there's about a 1/2" of flat edge and only a 1/4" rounded. I was expecting a 1/2" rounded. If I set the bit lower, it starts to eat into the top of the wood.

Hmmm, that's strange -- I would have expected 1/2" rounded, too. Are you certain you have a 1/2" roundover bit? The cutting flukes should be a curve drawn between the two opposite corners of an imaginary 1/2" x 1/2" box. And the outside of the guide bearing should line up perfectly with the bottom edges of the cutters and not extend out any further.

If you indeed have the right sized bearing on there, then perhaps you're actually working with a 1/4" radius bit...

Bryan
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post #1148 of 3081 Old 01-05-2012, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

I did some test routing last night. Maybe my inexperience shows, but I'm using a 1/2" round over bit. After routing, there's about a 1/2" of flat edge and only a 1/4" rounded. I was expecting a 1/2" rounded. If I set the bit lower, it starts to eat into the top of the wood.

Something weird is happening here. The profile the bit cuts is controlled by two things: the depth at which the bit is set, and the bearing that guides the bit. If the bit is set to the correct depth, then the other possibility is that the guide bearing was not riding against the workpiece. Is that possible?

The only other thing that occurs to me is to question whether you really have a 1/2" radius roundover bit. Router bits usually have two different dimensions or measurements listed on the package. In the case of a roundover bit, one dimension listed on the package will be the radius of the roundover. The second dimension listed will be the shank size. Maybe you have a bit with a 1/2" shank but a 1/4" radius?


Quote:


Question...is it a bad idea to use an orbital sander (which is what I already own) to smooth the oak edges?

An orbital sander will work, but a random orbit sander will be faster. If you end up buying a random orbit sander, look for one you can hook up to your shop vac. MUCH better dust collection that way.

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post #1149 of 3081 Old 01-05-2012, 09:30 AM
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Just a note on sanding, a common error when applying stain is to over sand before applying the stain. I took a class on finishing and the instructions were to not go beyond 200 grit prior to staining. You need for the material to have some tooth to accept the stain. You can go finer between finish coats.

If you were doing a wood tone stain, after sanding with an orbital you should make some long straight passes with a sanding block, At the microscopic level you are putting down parallel rows of groves that will accept the stain evenly.
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post #1150 of 3081 Old 01-05-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowger View Post


Hmmm, that's strange -- I would have expected 1/2" rounded, too. Are you certain you have a 1/2" roundover bit? The cutting flukes should be a curve drawn between the two opposite corners of an imaginary 1/2" x 1/2" box. And the outside of the guide bearing should line up perfectly with the bottom edges of the cutters and not extend out any further.

If you indeed have the right sized bearing on there, then perhaps you're actually working with a 1/4" radius bit...

Bryan

A 1/2" roundover bit only has a 1/4" radius.

It is called that because it will "round over" or create a semi-circle on the edge of a 1/2" thick piece of wood.
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post #1151 of 3081 Old 01-05-2012, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADAIR View Post

A 1/2" roundover bit only has a 1/4" radius.

It is called that because it will "round over" or create a semi-circle on the edge of a 1/2" thick piece of wood.

Hmmm, not my experience, but in any case, hopefully Mario will end up with the correct bit here...

Bryan
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post #1152 of 3081 Old 01-05-2012, 08:19 PM
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Seeing as how there seems to be some router bit confusion....

Roundover bits. Only cuts one edge of a board as 1/4 of a complete circle



Some of the many uses for a roundover.

"Create perfectly flush decorative edges perfect for drawer fronts. Cabinet edges and small finish moldings."





Double roundover w/guide bearing. Will cut both upper & lower edges of a board at the same time.



Uses for a double roundover.

"The center guide bearing allows you to round over both sides of material in one pass. The eased edge is perfect for stair treads, table edges, shelves, toys, etc."





Bullnose bit. Like a double roundover it cuts both upper & lower edges of a board, except unlike a double roundover it is non adjustable for different board thickness or type of cut. It turns the edge of a board into 1/2 of a complete circle.




One one of the primary uses of a bullnose bit, is making stair treads.

"Bullnose Bits are the perfect choice for the edges of stair treads, window sills, shelves, and more. Or you can create an oval edge by using a bit with a bead diameter greater than the stock thickness. Bullnose bits with a guide bearing allow for pattern cutting"
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post #1153 of 3081 Old 01-06-2012, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry guys. Me and the entire family have been sick for the past few days. So not much progress going on. I did discover I was using the wrong size router bit. I thought the largest bit was 3/4" so I grabbed the next size down. Turns out the biggest I had was 1/2". So mystery solved.

I like the idea and time saving of just using the Double Roundover bit on all the bull nose, but I think it may be a little thin looking at 3/4". So it looks like I'll need to secure another 3/4" lip below it.

I still may go the biscuit route over the kreg jig route for connecting "some" of the bull nose. I just don't like the idea of possibly screwing up or breaking a 18' single piece while trying to get it in place. The biscuits will give me a little more play as well. Specifically, I would probably want to use the biscuits behind the back row. Perhaps I use a combination so I can fit them right on the step.

I know Moggie hid his screws on the carpet side of the bull nose. But that even scares me that I might screw up the piece or break off the bottom portion of the oak. There's going to be quite a few hours into making all of these bull noses and I just hate to screw it up because of my inexperience. Remember, I'm more at home with a mouse than power tools.

My carpet guy was nice enough to lend me his Dewalt Biscuit joiner along with some other tools (planer and a oscilating spindle sander). I think the oscilating spindle sander will be good for making the 3/4" edge of the bull nose smoother and keeping a square edge. Then I'll attach the 3/4" bottom lip.
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post #1154 of 3081 Old 01-06-2012, 01:08 PM
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What's your distance from the front row to the screen?
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post #1155 of 3081 Old 01-06-2012, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior_Poet View Post

What's your distance from the front row to the screen?

It's closer than I would have liked, but in the upright position it's about 10'6".

I should gain a foot in the reclined position. Which I've heard you want to recline when watching DBox movies to really feel like you're flying.
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post #1156 of 3081 Old 01-07-2012, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Any recommendations on how I should attach the Oak treads to the OSB?

I was thinking liquid nails or Loctite polyeurathane adhesive if I don't want to see any screws. But if I go this route for the entire stage, I won't be able to put roofing felt in between the layers to prevent squeaking.

Do I use a "fine" thread for connecting the oak sections together with the Kreg Jig?
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post #1157 of 3081 Old 01-07-2012, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I worked in the theater last night until about 4am. I finished many of the risers and stair sides with 1/4" oak veneer using 18 ga finish nails and liquid nails. All the osb steps were screwed and liquid nailed before hand. The oak puzzle pieces for the front stage are pretty much done. The random orbital sander did a nice job. NOTE: The oak riser that's peeling away has been pre-cut. Just need to install it.







I think I have a game plan for carpeting the Dbox motion platform and surround fixed platform:

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post #1158 of 3081 Old 01-07-2012, 09:54 AM
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Looking pretty sharp!
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post #1159 of 3081 Old 01-07-2012, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Do I use a "fine" thread for connecting the oak sections together with the Kreg Jig?

I would (and did). The course thread is for particle board and softwoods to get a better grip. The fine thread minimizes the chance of splitting.

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post #1160 of 3081 Old 01-07-2012, 10:55 AM
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Not sure if it has been mentioned in the other 1172 posts of this thread, but IMO I think you're doing a pretty good job

Everything looks top notch!
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post #1161 of 3081 Old 01-07-2012, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking pretty sharp!

Thanks. It felt good to make a nice dent in the project.
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post #1162 of 3081 Old 01-07-2012, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

I would (and did). The course thread is for particle board and softwoods to get a better grip. The fine thread minimizes the chance of splitting.

Moggie,

That's what I thought. Did you use 1 1/4" screws to connect them?
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post #1163 of 3081 Old 01-07-2012, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post

Not sure if it has been mentioned in the other 1172 posts of this thread, but IMO I think you're doing a pretty good job

Everything looks top notch!

Thanks Larry. I've learned quite a bit from others here...especially in the wood working department now.
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post #1164 of 3081 Old 01-08-2012, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's the weekend report with lots of pics.

I've been trying to tackle the lip under the bullnoses and steps.

I scrapped the concept of ripping 1x2 routed oak pieces. The table saw just couldn't grind through it and it was a lot of work. So after scrapping a few 8' pieces. I picked up some unfinished oak base shoe 1/2" x 3/4". This gave me a standard step height of 3/4" step and 1/2" lip...so a total of 1 1/4". I would've liked it at 1 1/2" but like I mentioned...scrapped that idea.

So I thought I'd practice on a stair. Just in case I messed up.



Started by routing the top with a 1/2" roundover bit. Does anyone know if the $30 carbide bits are better than the $3 bits? I went with the $3 bit and it seemed to work through it alright.




I ran the router straight past the edges to give it a sharp look rather than rounded.



Snapshot of the trusty Porter Cable Brad Nailer:




I flipped the stair over and glued and brad nailed the base shoe after figuring out the miters.




Finished shot:



I left the corners long and just used a jig saw to cut them off:



Nice profile after flipping it over again:



Here it is dropped in place to see how it fits:



Then I used the random orbital sander with a 220 grit to blend the two edges:




After doing both stairs, I decided to move on to one of the big boys. The front step of the stage. I set it up and marked lines where I would be using the Kreg Jig.



Then started drilling:






Glued and screwed together:


Does anyone know if these 1" kreg screws will make this piece solid enough to actually pick up and flip over onto the stage? I'm a little nervous. So my theory is to run a board across the three pieces and screw into the bottom side helping to unify the entire piece. Otherwise, I may need to call a few friends over for some help.

I also started attaching the base shoe on the under side.

Clamps were helpful in getting the base shoe nicely aligned before brad nailing generously.



I cut the under sides at a 30 degree angle to help hide the joints.



Voila. Now I think it's time to do some clean up. You know it's bad when you actually have to start vacuuming the walls:
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post #1165 of 3081 Old 01-08-2012, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Does anyone know if the $30 carbide bits are better than the $3 bits? I went with the $3 bit and it seemed to work through it alright.


A carbide bit is far superior to a non-carbide bit when it comes to how many cuts it can make before becoming dull.

If I'm not in a hurry to get a router bit, this is where I buy mine from. Prices are good, and the quality of their house brand carbide bits is very good, and they are priced very good also.

https://www.woodline.com/


Menards also stocks some very low cost carbide bits, in their Toolshop brand, but the selection of sizes and shapes is very limited. And they also stock a limited selection of Bosch and Vermont American carbide bits as well.

Also, you should be aware that a 1/2" roundover bit is about as large as you should go with a handheld router. So if you are thinking of maybe something like a 3/4" roundover for anything, you best seriously consider getting a router table for using something like that.
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post #1166 of 3081 Old 01-09-2012, 07:09 AM
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Truly impressive Mario - that stair looks great!!

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289590
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post #1167 of 3081 Old 01-09-2012, 08:26 AM
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Keep up the good work. Your room is going to be amazing.
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post #1168 of 3081 Old 01-09-2012, 08:42 AM
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Wow, looks great, Mario! Your creativity and productivity are both impressive...

Bryan
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post #1169 of 3081 Old 01-09-2012, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post


A carbide bit is far superior to a non-carbide bit when it comes to how many cuts it can make before becoming dull.

If I'm not in a hurry to get a router bit, this is where I buy mine from. Prices are good, and the quality of their house brand carbide bits is very good, and they are priced very good also.

https://www.woodline.com/

Menards also stocks some very low cost carbide bits, in their Toolshop brand, but the selection of sizes and shapes is very limited. And they also stock a limited selection of Bosch and Vermont American carbide bits as well.

Also, you should be aware that a 1/2" roundover bit is about as large as you should go with a handheld router. So if you are thinking of maybe something like a 3/4" roundover for anything, you best seriously consider getting a router table for using something like that.

Thanks for the info. I've been using the Toolshop brand with good luck.
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post #1170 of 3081 Old 01-09-2012, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys as usual. I'm excited to get the top of the stage finished so I can get started on the screen wall.
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