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post #1291 of 3297 Old 02-08-2012, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

I have a separate amp (XPA-5), but AFAIK, the Onkyo will only produce sound for up to 9.2. Am I wrong?

No, you are not wrong. No Onkyo or Integra product can run a full 11.2 setup, even with additional amplification 9.2 is the most they can do. So far Denon is the only manufacturer that has offered a AVR that can run a full 11.2 setup with the addition of a 2 channel outboard amplifier, with their 4810CI and 4311CI/A100 AVR's.

As for your Onkyo, from what I can tell is that so far you bought it ahead of time when you started your theater build but have not used it yet. But I don't know if you are aware of this or not, is that there have been problems with them locking up and becoming unresponsive due to a cable corrosion issue. There are several threads here on AVS about people that have had the problem, and what was done to fix it by having a service center replace a cable and install new connectors. Onkyo has even issued a press release about the problem.

http://www.us.onkyo.com/press_releases.cfm?id=215
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post #1292 of 3297 Old 02-08-2012, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post


I have a separate amp (XPA-5), but AFAIK, the Onkyo will only produce sound for up to 9.2. Am I wrong?

Oops you're right. Completely overlooked that.

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post #1293 of 3297 Old 02-08-2012, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Any one know if these double roller catches would be better to use for the front cabinet doors instead of magnets knowing the subs will be behind them?
http://www.homedepot.com/Kitchen-Cab...&storeId=10051

I have used these roller clips, four per panel, and have never had one ounce of problems with any rattles. They hold extremely strong and tight. I have used a four of the self-stick rubber cabinet pads on the backside as an extra insurance against wood against wood rattles. So you would be absolutely fine using the roller clips without issue.
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post #1294 of 3297 Old 02-09-2012, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

No, you are not wrong. No Onkyo or Integra product can run a full 11.2 setup, even with additional amplification 9.2 is the most they can do. So far Denon is the only manufacturer that has offered a AVR that can run a full 11.2 setup with the addition of a 2 channel outboard amplifier, with their 4810CI and 4311CI/A100 AVR's.

As for your Onkyo, from what I can tell is that so far you bought it ahead of time when you started your theater build but have not used it yet. But I don't know if you are aware of this or not, is that there have been problems with them locking up and becoming unresponsive due to a cable corrosion issue. There are several threads here on AVS about people that have had the problem, and what was done to fix it by having a service center replace a cable and install new connectors. Onkyo has even issued a press release about the problem.

http://www.us.onkyo.com/press_releases.cfm?id=215

Thanks for the info. I thought Denon was the only 11.2 player at this time.

I do have my Onkyo setup in my Great Room. I wasn't however aware of the problems you mentioned. AFAIK, it's been working as expected so maybe I'm a lucky one...or an unlucky one if it ends up breaking after warranty.
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post #1295 of 3297 Old 02-09-2012, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

I have used these roller clips, four per panel, and have never had one ounce of problems with any rattles. They hold extremely strong and tight. I have used a four of the self-stick rubber cabinet pads on the backside as an extra insurance against wood against wood rattles. So you would be absolutely fine using the roller clips without issue.

I thought the roller clips would have been better than magnets since they lock in. I guess either option should work well. And the rubber pads are a good idea in both cases too.
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post #1296 of 3297 Old 02-09-2012, 07:05 AM
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The corner structures turned out great! That stage is going to be awesome. Nice work.

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post #1297 of 3297 Old 02-09-2012, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I got a start on the top of the center cabinet. I decided to use 3/4" MDF. Like the oak, I'll put a base shoe underneath it to add some meat to the front. Then I plan to wrap it with a dark fabric. The base shoe will give me a nice way to hide staples, glue and the edge of the darkening matrial.

I needed a 12'6" piece so I could trace the front of the stage curve so I connected two pieces together with the Kreg and glue. I may make a 2' section in the middle of the top removable so I can get a sub in/out easier. I think the darkening material will hide the seam well.

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post #1298 of 3297 Old 02-09-2012, 06:55 PM
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Hi Mario -

I have a quick question. Those wires coming from the front, I get what they are from a previous diagram I saw, but are you planning to use wall plates? Also, where are you going to plug your subs in?

Thanks!

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post #1299 of 3297 Old 02-10-2012, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themarkkram View Post

Hi Mario -

I have a quick question. Those wires coming from the front, I get what they are from a previous diagram I saw, but are you planning to use wall plates? Also, where are you going to plug your subs in?

Thanks!

I probably won't use any type of wall plates for the cables on the back wall. I'll just terminate them and connect directly to the speakers or subs. They'll be hidden from site. Although I still need to develop a plan to mount the speakers on the back wall. So if the opportunity arises and I have some framing there, I might opt for a wall plate.

I currently only have one sub. So the current plan will be to put it directly in the center of the room under the front cabinet. I'll do a walk test first to see if that is a good spot for it. When I add a 2nd sub, I'll probably set it in the back center of the room to keep them both centered to the room. If I end up going with four subs, they'll end up going in the four corners of the room.
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post #1300 of 3297 Old 02-10-2012, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I traced my cut lines from the front stage for the top of my front wall cabinet.


Then using the jig saw, I cut along the curve.


I'll be mirrioring this for the bottom portion of the cabinet as well. It just won't be quite as deep.
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post #1301 of 3297 Old 02-11-2012, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I made some progress on the bottom portion of the front wall cabinet.
I used the top curve to trace the bottom section. I plan to attach a 1x2 maple to the front for a finished edge. The top will have a couple inch over hang.



After tracing the curve, I used the jigsaw and just cut near the line leaving about an 1/8".

Then I used a router with a flush trim bit to cut it down.




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post #1302 of 3297 Old 02-11-2012, 08:30 AM
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post #1303 of 3297 Old 02-11-2012, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post

How did you trace the arc?

Just stacked the two layers of MDF and used a pencil. The initial arc was traced from the front stage.
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post #1304 of 3297 Old 02-11-2012, 08:58 AM
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You have some incredible skills and patience. I cannot wait to see the finished product. Great job so far.
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post #1305 of 3297 Old 02-12-2012, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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You have some incredible skills and patience. I cannot wait to see the finished product. Great job so far.

Thanks. I would have to agree with you on the patience part. To have theater chairs sitting in a box for six years and the D-Box on a shelf...takes a lot of discipline.
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post #1306 of 3297 Old 02-12-2012, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are some pictures from yesterdays work on the front wall cabinetry.

I started by routing an 1/8" round over on the cabinet top. This will allow the fabric to rollover nicely when I wrap it. I might bump it up to a 1/4" though.


Then I routed the edge of my 1x2 Maple that will be showing on the room side. Next I used the Kreg Jig and marked areas where I thought I could place screws and avoid the supports that will go inbetween the cabinet doors.

I was able to use the bottom shelf of the cabinet as a perfect way to wrap the 1x2 onto the larger top. In the picture below, everything is flipped upside down. So the top layer is actually the bottom side of the bottom of the cabinet. And the 3/4" MDF below that is the under side of the cabinet top.


I used 1" coarse threads to screw into the 3/4" mdf.


I extended the 1x2 over the edge. Then I just have to flip it over and cut off the extra with a jig saw flush to the mdf.


Not sure what best practice is, but any joints along the curves I've been cutting at a 30 degree angle. I had to use two 1x2's in order to make the full 12'+ curve. They seem to glue nicely together at that angle. I also make sure I cut both pieces while the saw is set at that angle before readjusting the saw.


Here's the routed edge of the maple.


After the glue dried, I started brad nailing and attaching the base shoe to the cabinet top under side edge. There's a nice little gap between the shoe and 1x2 for me to brad nail, staple or glue the fabric and have it hidden from view.


Here's a side profile of the top upside down. Remember, that top layer of MDF is the bottom and not attached aside from the clamps as a guide.


Here are both pieces assembled.


Today, I'll be attaching a 1x2 to the front of the base of the cabinet arch made of MDF. I've predrilled all the Kreg holes already.
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post #1307 of 3297 Old 02-12-2012, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys. Looking for some input on the front wall cabinet doors.

Is it critical that the cabinet door rails and stiles be the same size?

I'm using a 1x2 divider between the cabinet doors so I'll have a place to install the hinges. This adds more meat in between the doors than my initial plan which was only a 3/4" divider.

Would it be bad for me to use 1x2's on the stiles (vertical) and then 1x3's on the rail (horizontal) of the cabinet door?

I'd have to render it first, but I think ripping a 2.5" board down to 2" would be better for the rail and the stiles. But I just haven't ever been able to get perfectly straight rips with my borrowed table saw. Not sure if it's the saw, the blade, material or just me. So I'm preferring to use factory edges to ensure a nice tight fit.

See here's an illustration of both options:



And the final renders of both options.

OPTION A




OPTION B





I think using 1x2's all the way around wouldn't provide enough reveal compared to the moulding I'm using on the inside of the cabinet doors.

Any thoughts?
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post #1308 of 3297 Old 02-12-2012, 11:30 AM
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build a test door and see if you like it....best way to judge that kind of thing. i personally think rails and stiles need to be symmetrical.

regarding ripping the wood down, you can do it, but you will need to run it through a jointer afterwards....but i usually just use my router table and offset one side of the fence by 1/16 and use a large straight bit.

be careful 1x3 looks too wide at first then when you add profiles to both sides (if that is the plan) it can start to look thin quickly!

I love making cabinets fwiw....so do what you want with the sizes, there is no correct way...but i would test the mix and match first to make sure it is visually appealing. (actually, when making raised panels, it should be a ratio of about 5:1 for time spent testing/setting up versus time spent actually running through the router!)
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post #1309 of 3297 Old 02-12-2012, 02:17 PM
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Since they are black I would say it will be hard to notice any size difference. If not the same size I would say it looks better to have the "Heavy" (Thicker) look on the rails, but his is just my opinion of course. I have built several cabinets with the rail as the larger size and it looks very good, especially on a taller cabinet.
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post #1310 of 3297 Old 02-12-2012, 04:51 PM
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Hey Mario - everything is looking really good. I think it would be best to keep the rails and stiles the same size, but I am not following you when you say you are adding hinges. Is this so these doors can swing open like normal cabinet doors? If so, I have a suggestion that may solve both your issues....you could use the 1x3 stiles for the cabinets and use four roller latches to secure each cabinet door to the framing. With some tinkering of your cabinet door sizes, you could have the left and right sides of these door frames either touching one another or leave whatever reveal you like in between.
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post #1311 of 3297 Old 02-12-2012, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Hey Mario - everything is looking really good. I think it would be best to keep the rails and stiles the same size, but I am not following you when you say you are adding hinges. Is this so these doors can swing open like normal cabinet doors? If so, I have a suggestion that may solve both your issues....you could use the 1x3 stiles for the cabinets and use four roller latches to secure each cabinet door to the framing. With some tinkering of your cabinet door sizes, you could have the left and right sides of these door frames either touching one another or leave whatever reveal you like in between.

Hmm... Not sure I follow you on this one. Can you elaborate?

Is a roller latch the same as a roller catch?

I figured I'd put hinges on all the doors since I'm doing it for sure for the middle. I could probably cheat on at least four or five of the doors and just use four finish nails per cabinet and secure to some hidden framing. I thought it might be nice to have some access to the back of the sub from another one of the doors besides the middle. That would prevent me from pulling the sub out if it's centered in the middle of the cabinet.
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post #1312 of 3297 Old 02-13-2012, 06:53 AM
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Damn I really need to buy a router

Nice work
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post #1313 of 3297 Old 02-13-2012, 06:55 AM
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Oh and if anyone is interested Kreg Jig systems has a $15 rebate

http://slickdeals.net/f/3939630-Kreg...p-17-56-w-FSSS

Doesn't seem like this product goes on sale very often so might be worth it if you were looking to pick it up.
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post #1314 of 3297 Old 02-13-2012, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's some progress from yesterday.

I attached the 1x2 maple to the front of the bottom of the cabinet arch. Unfortunately my camera battery died so I didn't get a shot of how I did it. But I basically stacked the top and bottom layers together. I had already marked where I had clamped and screwed the top of the cabinet piece. I made those same markings on the lower mdf arch. This was to ensure that my arch matched as closely as possible between the two pieces. As you bend the board, you can see where the arch isn't always perfect. By stacking the two layers, I was able to make sure that the 1x2 lined up. So when I add the middle supports from top to bottom, they should be spot on.

Here's a shot of the lower section of the cabinet. BTW, I've learned to mark my factory edges with blue painters tape. It's a good thing to do so you know it's a perfectly straight piece. I've been doing this pretty religously especially when you plan to rip multiple pieces...it's good to always work off the factory straight edge.


I had routed the edges that would be visible with a 1/8" round over bit before attaching:


Snapshot of the how I connected the 1x2 along with glue.


I wanted to see how it looked so I just rested it up there on some stools. It's sitting several inches higher than the finished product. I'm playing with the vertical dimensions. I was planning to cut the middle section of the top shelf into 3 pieces so I could remove the center to get the sub in / out. I'm rethinking that and may just make the opening another 1/2" taller instead.




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post #1315 of 3297 Old 02-13-2012, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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So I've come up with an Option C that seems like it should work and look very close to option b. I'll just need to order different hinges to make it work.

I'll continue to use the 1x2 inbetween the cabinets, but instead rotate them so only the 3/4" side is facing the front. I'll just need to notch each side to get around the 1x2 lips I added to the top / bottom of the cabinet. I played around with the depth of my miter saw and it's actually easier than expected once I got the hang of it and found the center of the saw blade.





Here are the renders of Option C. The edges look sharp, but I'll be adding a 1/8" rounder over edge along the outsides:




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post #1316 of 3297 Old 02-13-2012, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post

Damn I really need to buy a router

Nice work

Thanks Larry. My old cheap Black and Decker seems to be keeping up. But I've heard good things about the Bosch handheld router.
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post #1317 of 3297 Old 02-13-2012, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longtimelurker View Post

build a test door and see if you like it....best way to judge that kind of thing. i personally think rails and stiles need to be symmetrical.

regarding ripping the wood down, you can do it, but you will need to run it through a jointer afterwards....but i usually just use my router table and offset one side of the fence by 1/16 and use a large straight bit.

be careful 1x3 looks too wide at first then when you add profiles to both sides (if that is the plan) it can start to look thin quickly!

I love making cabinets fwiw....so do what you want with the sizes, there is no correct way...but i would test the mix and match first to make sure it is visually appealing. (actually, when making raised panels, it should be a ratio of about 5:1 for time spent testing/setting up versus time spent actually running through the router!)

I tried ripping just a small piece of maple down to 2". Maybe I have the wrong blade...but the blade just seems to bend as it starts going through the wood.

I wouldn't mind knowing how to solve this, but I think I'll try to work with the 2.5" rail and stiles just to save time and energy.
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post #1318 of 3297 Old 02-13-2012, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Guys. Looking for some input on the front wall cabinet doors.

Is it critical that the cabinet door rails and stiles be the same size?

Most of the furniture doors I make have rails that are different widths than the stiles. Here's an example:



For this cabinet, I made the bottom stiles wider to help balance the horizontal band of spalted maple panels at the top of the doors. Here's a closer shot of the bottom of the doors:



In general, I think playing with the widths of the rails vs. stiles adds visual interest to a piece. It takes a bit longer because you have different machine setups for the different widths, so you don't see it much in production cabinets. IMO, that's one of the reasons to do it. It's one of the little things that together say, "This is a custom piece."

Quote:


But I just haven't ever been able to get perfectly straight rips with my borrowed table saw. Not sure if it's the saw, the blade, material or just me.

The most common causes for this are a dull blade and/or a fence that is not parallel to the blade.

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post #1319 of 3297 Old 02-13-2012, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

I tried ripping just a small piece of maple down to 2". Maybe I have the wrong blade...but the blade just seems to bend as it starts going through the wood.

I wouldn't mind knowing how to solve this, but I think I'll try to work with the 2.5" rail and stiles just to save time and energy.

Maybe try two passes. Cut half way through on the first.

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post #1320 of 3297 Old 02-13-2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Hmm... Not sure I follow you on this one. Can you elaborate?

Is a roller latch the same as a roller catch?

I figured I'd put hinges on all the doors since I'm doing it for sure for the middle. I could probably cheat on at least four or five of the doors and just use four finish nails per cabinet and secure to some hidden framing. I thought it might be nice to have some access to the back of the sub from another one of the doors besides the middle. That would prevent me from pulling the sub out if it's centered in the middle of the cabinet.

Sorry it wasn't clear...typing on my iPad really curtails my desire to type anything!! Yes, I was talking about the roller catch/latches. But my feedback may have been misplaced once I looked at your renderings with fresh eyes. It looks as though you are using the small vertical pieces to attach your hinges and provide spacing between each doors.

My proposal was to still use the vertical pieces, but have it so the doors themselves would only be an 1/8" apart. This still makes for a smooth front, but without all the additional detail of insetting the doors within a frame.

Essentially your renderings propose to "nest" the doors and use hinges and probably some sort of magnetic catch/stop. I was proposing doing a "full overlay" with the cabinet doors and using four roller catches, two per side. This way the doors can literally be pulled off and/or reinstalled in seconds, allowing for full access. Your vertical pieces would still be needed to hold the other part of the roller latches, but they would be recessed the depth of the door (and stick on cabinet pads) for a flush finish.

Hopefully this is clear, but like I said - You are probably going for the nested look which is more akin to fine cabinetry building since it is so much more difficult to do and the level of precision involved is far greater.
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